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Why would Magik be too OP as a 6 star now?

Qwerty12345Qwerty12345 Posts: 766 ★★★
in General Discussion
  1. She isn't that hard hitting
  2. She isn't the best power control champ for a lot of content, and there are now champions that counter her power control
  3. Her limbo damage is no more or less annoying than several other "unavoidable damage" in the game
  4. There are champions like blade that counter her, as well as champs like gladiator hulk that mitigate her well.
  6. If she were available
  7. she wouldn't be used in aq for any top level content (and for maps 6 and lower... there are no shortage of champions who can do it)
  8. she wouldn't be used in raids
  9. she wouldn't be used in incursions
  10. With all the "hazard shift" and other notes in AW.. there is no lane she would dominate
  11. I can't think of the last AW meta she would have bee good for
  12. She wouldn't be particular great in Abyss, Necropolis, many Labyrinth fights, the Carina's challenges, or any other "end game content
  13. While I am sure people would use her in BG, she wouldn't be any worse than any other champion, and people could always ban her
We waited a very, very long time for many champions to make it... including Scarlet witch and Wolverine. I am sure there would be a lot of excitement (and sales) just like when those came out, but after a little while...they would just be like any other "fun/nostalgic" champ that would be used, and may even be a top 10 champ in a mode for a period of time... but not break the game.

I admit, she seems to be used less often that most other champions as a defender (but she is used)... so I issue the following challange to Prove me wrong. Either:
  • either show on a beta how broken she would be as an attacker, or
  • simply make a challenge (EOP, celebrity, whatever) which shows why she is OP... but make it that she is OP, and not the dozen nodes that she is paired with). Just to make something "fair"... say any node you want from any current AQ or AW map
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Comments

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    Real_Madrid_76_2Real_Madrid_76_2 Posts: 3,325 ★★★★★
    peixemacaco said:

    Jimajohn said:

    peixemacaco said:

    5th?

    The 5th point is
    Haha...
    I just found what was 5th point...








    Drax, is that you?
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    AshacekarAshacekar Posts: 1,777 ★★★★
    edited January 28
    I have started playing gta games to bring back memories. I played sa, vc and finished gta3 today as part of definitive edition. My man, Claude would agree with the 5th point.

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    GrandOldKaiGrandOldKai Posts: 785 ★★★★
    Her Power control, if she's allowed to attain it, is entirely ridiculous even if her damage may not be that good.

    Giving her a higher rarity is giving her more sustainability... and more funny Limbo damage if she's a defender I guess
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    NightheartNightheart Posts: 814 ★★★
    edited January 29
    As someone who has a 5 star rank 5 ascended Magik I say she's perfectly fine as she is I would love to see a 6 star version. They said the same thing about scarlet witch and look how she turned out. Having her as 6 star wouldn't be too much of a hassle I agree however that Quake shouldn't be 6 star and it's official that she won't be.
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    PandingoPandingo Posts: 720 ★★★
    I agree. Science is the BEST class. So, many great counters
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    PT_99PT_99 Posts: 2,328 ★★★★★
    Maybe let players 6* 7* magik test it on beta phase with keeping close eye on how she's performing,
    Maybe tie her annoying abilities behind sig 200 and move sig to basic ability, so that way 7* sig 200 will be long thing to chase and will certainly make giga revenue whenever 7* sigs are sold.

    But 5* magik with Ascension is laughable, people are laughing at her.
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    RebarkRebark Posts: 344 ★★★
    I think that about Quake. I find her extremely easy to stop.
    I think that an ascended Magik 6 star with amplifiers, full recoil and two synergies, would make a boss with 1 million health in 40 seconds in alliance war. And better: No risks.
    Anyway, she's my favorite champion and I wish I could use the 6-star version. I prefer a weaker 6 star and in the future 7 stars than none. Want a nerf worse than the champion not existing? Because that's basically the situation. It's very rare to use a 5-star Magik for something today and it will be even rarer in the future.
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Vegeta9001 said:

    Hell, I'd argue everybodies favourite crutch Hercules is just as bad.

    Saying a champion is as bad as Herc isn’t going to persuade anyone at Kabam that Magik should be released as a 6* lol (completely the opposite in fact)

    Just because there’s one broken champ doesn’t mean there should be another.
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    doctorbdoctorb Posts: 1,726 ★★★
    Vision AoU can almost shut down special attacks also if played right. The key is timing and not doing 5 hit combos every time.
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    smdam38smdam38 Posts: 846 ★★★
    Magik was trash. They made her better.
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    Kingering_KingKingering_King Posts: 287 ★
    Ya fr, idk. Maybe her sp3 against buff champs? Maybe limbo? Maybe power lock, power drain, and power gain?
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    Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Posts: 1,348 ★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    Vegeta9001 said:

    Hell, I'd argue everybodies favourite crutch Hercules is just as bad.

    Saying a champion is as bad as Herc isn’t going to persuade anyone at Kabam that Magik should be released as a 6* lol (completely the opposite in fact)

    Just because there’s one broken champ doesn’t mean there should be another.
    You picked out one sentence out of my response. She is hard countered by so many nodes and characters she wouldn't be that big of a threat anymore to the point of gating her as a 5* she wouldn't even be in the top 5 available 6*s
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    The_0wenpusThe_0wenpus Posts: 131 ★
    Honestly number 6 is an irrefutable point. If she were available,




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    gohard123gohard123 Posts: 998 ★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    1. That’s not why she’s powerful. She fully locks down champions without them being able to throw a special or gain power. It’s why since then most power controllers have something at stake, White Tiger, Idoom and Fanta all have the opponent at high power with a risk of them throwing it. Viv reduces power gain and drains, but still baits specials.
    2. She is the best power controller for a lot of the game. She’s as powerful, if not more powerful, as Doom at controlling power. And everyone knows how broken doom is. Why don’t you think she’s the best power controller for a lot of the game? Additionally, the existence of counters to power control isn’t an argument against her being too OP.
    3. Limbo isn’t why she’s too powerful
    4. Counters existing isn’t an argument against a champ being too OP. You can point to champions who nullify shutting down Herc’s immortality but he’s still ridiculously powerful
    5.
    6. See 5
    7. AQ isnt a great measuring stick for whether a champion is too powerful
    8. That’s because she’s not on the list of roles
    9. She probably is quite good for incursions with power control and sustainability, but incursions isn’t a measuring stick for whether champions are too powerful
    10. depending defenders, Magik works for path 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8. And can work for some nodes on the other paths - even 9 with a synergy. She works for 7 of the minis and also boss node. I disagree with her not being able to dominate war maps
    11. The current AW meta revolves around specials, take that away and the tactic is no threat. It’s why people have been using Vision(s). So I disagree with her not countering AW metas. Prowess power is another she counters, which was power gain.
    12. She’s not a long form content champ, though I can imagine her working well for some of the EoP fights
    13. She would be very strong for BGs, and the ability to ban someone isn’t an argument against how OP someone is

    Whilst I agree, She was soo fun to use. Backdraft intercepting when the opponent is against the wall felt like I was a master at this game.
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    BitterSteelBitterSteel Posts: 9,254 ★★★★★
    Vegeta9001 said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Vegeta9001 said:

    Hell, I'd argue everybodies favourite crutch Hercules is just as bad.

    Saying a champion is as bad as Herc isn’t going to persuade anyone at Kabam that Magik should be released as a 6* lol (completely the opposite in fact)

    Just because there’s one broken champ doesn’t mean there should be another.
    You picked out one sentence out of my response. She is hard countered by so many nodes and characters she wouldn't be that big of a threat anymore to the point of gating her as a 5* she wouldn't even be in the top 5 available 6*s
    Because I wanted to respond to that point.

    But if you want to bring up nodes countering her (and I’m assuming the 25% figure was a massive exaggeration) then power control stopping nodes are not very common. Count how many paths in story content have them, count how many war nodes have them, count how many BG metas have them, count how many champions have that ability.

    And the existence of nodes that counter something is not an argument that it’s too broken. Those nodes cannot and will not be put everywhere

    And re: top 5 champion, firstly, the measuring for whether a champion is too broken isn’t that they are in the top 2% of the game, it’s not even top X, it’s whether they have an interaction that is too powerful to be in the game. And locking down power 100% is too powerful.
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    Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 3,033 ★★★★★
    Vegeta9001 said:

    BitterSteel said:

    Vegeta9001 said:

    Hell, I'd argue everybodies favourite crutch Hercules is just as bad.

    Saying a champion is as bad as Herc isn’t going to persuade anyone at Kabam that Magik should be released as a 6* lol (completely the opposite in fact)

    Just because there’s one broken champ doesn’t mean there should be another.
    You picked out one sentence out of my response. She is hard countered by so many nodes and characters she wouldn't be that big of a threat anymore to the point of gating her as a 5* she wouldn't even be in the top 5 available 6*s
    I want to speak to the idea about her being hard countered by certain nodes, because that comment doesn’t account for knock on effects of those nodes.

    Let’s say Kabam wants to put on a power control limiting node. That doesn’t only impact Magik, it hits so many Mystic and Tech champions beyond her. Another way they could try to thwart her would be debuff-shrugging, but again, now you’re hurting so many champions beyond her. We’ve seen this before with True Focus aimed at Quake and Kitty messing up so many other champs.

    And if you’re thinking “surely Kabam has learned a lesson from that and can do something more targeted in the future!” congrats, you’re right! And they’re already doing it by not releasing problematic champions at higher ranks. That’s the most narrowly tailored solution possible. Anything else will cause other problems to be solved.
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    Qwerty12345Qwerty12345 Posts: 766 ★★★
    I love how half the comments here are about a blank line from the HTML formatting trying to make an indented sub-bullet.

    Can Magik shutdown some fights so that if you play perfectly, you'll take minimal damage and eventually win... sure.

    however if that were true, just like you see people have fun with low star-Ronan's... people would do that for content

    I can't remember the last time someone did that with a 5 star Magik, let alone a 2 or 3 star one like you see with Ronan.... and he doesn't take chip damage once he is setup.

    If it were a problem... then the last celebrity challenge wouldn't have been released the way it was, where Ronan could do 40% of the fights with effectively no risk.... and most people don't both to rank their Ronan up much because it isn't needed.... only begrudgingly doing it if there is something like the red skull abyss fight or because the materials are so readily available that just about any champ will get ranked to said level because "they can".

    People in this thread are saying the first they they would do is R5 her and ascend her... suggesting she really at his level of cheesiness.
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    Zuko_ILCZuko_ILC Posts: 1,504 ★★★★★
    BitterSteel said:

    1. That’s not why she’s powerful. She fully locks down champions without them being able to throw a special or gain power. It’s why since then most power controllers have something at stake, White Tiger, Idoom and Fanta all have the opponent at high power with a risk of them throwing it. Viv reduces power gain and drains, but still baits specials.
    2. She is the best power controller for a lot of the game. She’s as powerful, if not more powerful, as Doom at controlling power. And everyone knows how broken doom is. Why don’t you think she’s the best power controller for a lot of the game? Additionally, the existence of counters to power control isn’t an argument against her being too OP.
    3. Limbo isn’t why she’s too powerful
    4. Counters existing isn’t an argument against a champ being too OP. You can point to champions who nullify shutting down Herc’s immortality but he’s still ridiculously powerful
    5.
    6. See 5
    7. AQ isnt a great measuring stick for whether a champion is too powerful
    8. That’s because she’s not on the list of roles
    9. She probably is quite good for incursions with power control and sustainability, but incursions isn’t a measuring stick for whether champions are too powerful
    10. depending defenders, Magik works for path 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8. And can work for some nodes on the other paths - even 9 with a synergy. She works for 7 of the minis and also boss node. I disagree with her not being able to dominate war maps
    11. The current AW meta revolves around specials, take that away and the tactic is no threat. It’s why people have been using Vision(s). So I disagree with her not countering AW metas. Prowess power is another she counters, which was power gain.
    12. She’s not a long form content champ, though I can imagine her working well for some of the EoP fights
    13. She would be very strong for BGs, and the ability to ban someone isn’t an argument against how OP someone is

    White Tiger and vision needs nerfed cuz you can essentially prevent your opponents from throwing a special. Just hold block and then use your specials. So if magik is too OP then these 2 really shouldn't be in the game either.
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    Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 3,033 ★★★★★
    Zuko_ILC said:

    BitterSteel said:

    1. That’s not why she’s powerful. She fully locks down champions without them being able to throw a special or gain power. It’s why since then most power controllers have something at stake, White Tiger, Idoom and Fanta all have the opponent at high power with a risk of them throwing it. Viv reduces power gain and drains, but still baits specials.
    2. She is the best power controller for a lot of the game. She’s as powerful, if not more powerful, as Doom at controlling power. And everyone knows how broken doom is. Why don’t you think she’s the best power controller for a lot of the game? Additionally, the existence of counters to power control isn’t an argument against her being too OP.
    3. Limbo isn’t why she’s too powerful
    4. Counters existing isn’t an argument against a champ being too OP. You can point to champions who nullify shutting down Herc’s immortality but he’s still ridiculously powerful
    5.
    6. See 5
    7. AQ isnt a great measuring stick for whether a champion is too powerful
    8. That’s because she’s not on the list of roles
    9. She probably is quite good for incursions with power control and sustainability, but incursions isn’t a measuring stick for whether champions are too powerful
    10. depending defenders, Magik works for path 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8. And can work for some nodes on the other paths - even 9 with a synergy. She works for 7 of the minis and also boss node. I disagree with her not being able to dominate war maps
    11. The current AW meta revolves around specials, take that away and the tactic is no threat. It’s why people have been using Vision(s). So I disagree with her not countering AW metas. Prowess power is another she counters, which was power gain.
    12. She’s not a long form content champ, though I can imagine her working well for some of the EoP fights
    13. She would be very strong for BGs, and the ability to ban someone isn’t an argument against how OP someone is

    White Tiger and vision needs nerfed cuz you can essentially prevent your opponents from throwing a special. Just hold block and then use your specials. So if magik is too OP then these 2 really shouldn't be in the game either.
    White Tiger and Vision both require very specific play styles and can be thwarted by something as simple as increased power gain rate or any kind of passive power gain. Magik fully power locks the opponent at 0 power. There is nobody comparable in the game. The two closest are Psylocke and Dormammu, who also just objectively aren’t as effective at it as Magik.
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