Dear Kabam, pls understand the problem with your „hard“ content!

All the talk about the content is ment to be hard is showing me how much Kabam does not understand the Problem. i think the most people have no problem with hard content but with the way Kabam maks it hard.

This Game was always about having the right solution for the challenge. It was about building a roster and choosing the right champs for the right situation.

Let me give you another way to put it:

Lets say we have the task of building a car. All the parts needed and the skill to put them together. Now we buy Tools and oil them and clean them so we are ready for the job. Now you give us the task to build the engine and we say: „Cool now i can finally use all this shiny tools i prepared exactly for that.
You say: „No, u have to use just a hammer“
We reply: „But look at all the shiny tools i have, they would be perfect“
You say: „But i want it to be hard, so you have to use just the hammer“
We: „But look, there are screws and i have a screwdriver“
You: „HAAAAAAMMER“

You see the problem? This Game should be about you giving us challenges and we are solving them the way we think its the best. LOL, Necropolis all nice content because you gave us the riddle and we had to solve it. There is no fun in giving us the task and a bad solution, even if you give us the hammer for free!

Comments

captain_rogers

The problem is not saying "do it with x champ", The problem is, the content is nothing mote than revive , deal as much as damage possible die and repeat.

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.

Legacy challenge is completely fine and fun

Heruzu369

I’m sorry, I was reading along but that whole middle part kinda threw off what you were going for here😭

Dirty_Dozz

Your example is flawed. The situation in your example is literally impossible, as you cannot tighten or loosen screws with a hammer.

These challenges are NOT impossible, but simply extremely hard. The more I see arguments like this one, the more I get pushed the other direction on them, because each new argument inflates the actual difficulty, to the point of being literally impossible (like your post suggests).

Roby77k

The problem is not saying "do it with x champ", The problem is, the content is nothing mote than revive , deal as much as damage possible die and repeat.

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.

Legacy challenge is completely fine and fun

I agree in parts but for me the forced champs is the problem. I play for a very long time now, and half of the fun was finding the right champs for the job. Building up teams and synergies to do content. If you take that, then its just half of the fun. And even if they say we can use a good champ like in legacys challenge, it takes some fun away because it now just go through the motion how they want me to do it. For what do i need all this champs then? And maybe i dont like spidey…

Demonzfyre

They've explained why this type of hard content exists. It's a direct result of people being able to farm revives without limit. Having an unlimited supply of revives means no content is truly hard, just have to budget how many runs to make to farm revives.

They want content you have to think and strategize about. They want you to think of out of the box ways of defeating content. Instead, the community wants to farm revives and throw them at the content until it's done.

But then, the community gets mad because something can't be solo'd or has to involve using a resource. All the sudden because you might to use a revive or health pot, content is over tuned. When are we going to make up our minds?

Demonzfyre

All the talk about the content is ment to be hard is showing me how much Kabam does not understand the Problem. i think the most people have no problem with hard content but with the way Kabam maks it hard.

This Game was always about having the right solution for the challenge. It was about building a roster and choosing the right champs for the right situation.

Let me give you another way to put it:

Lets say we have the task of building a car. All the parts needed and the skill to put them together. Now we buy Tools and oil them and clean them so we are ready for the job. Now you give us the task to build the engine and we say: „Cool now i can finally use all this shiny tools i prepared exactly for that.
You say: „No, u have to use just a hammer“
We reply: „But look at all the shiny tools i have, they would be perfect“
You say: „But i want it to be hard, so you have to use just the hammer“
We: „But look, there are screws and i have a screwdriver“
You: „HAAAAAAMMER“

You see the problem? This Game should be about you giving us challenges and we are solving them the way we think its the best. LOL, Necropolis all nice content because you gave us the riddle and we had to solve it. There is no fun in giving us the task and a bad solution, even if you give us the hammer for free!

It's weird you talk about building a roster and having the solution and then talk about LoL, Necro where Aegon can do everything which defeats the purpose of building a roster.

Roby77k

Your example is flawed. The situation in your example is literally impossible, as you cannot tighten or loosen screws with a hammer.

These challenges are NOT impossible, but simply extremely hard. The more I see arguments like this one, the more I get pushed the other direction on them, because each new argument inflates the actual difficulty, to the point of being literally impossible (like your post suggests).

Robot against Asorbing Man. Lets buy 100 new screws

EBG78

They've explained why this type of hard content exists. It's a direct result of people being able to farm revives without limit. Having an unlimited supply of revives means no content is truly hard, just have to budget how many runs to make to farm revives.

They want content you have to think and strategize about. They want you to think of out of the box ways of defeating content. Instead, the community wants to farm revives and throw them at the content until it's done.

But then, the community gets mad because something can't be solo'd or has to involve using a resource. All the sudden because you might to use a revive or health pot, content is over tuned. When are we going to make up our minds?

But when they say, "here are the only champs you can use", that really limits the strategizing. On top of that, almost all of the champs are ones that most people don't have highly ranked. So now, to do the challenges, you have to use valuable rank-up materials on champs that you will most likely only use for these challenges. If you didn't rank them up before, it was for a reason.

Demonzfyre

They've explained why this type of hard content exists. It's a direct result of people being able to farm revives without limit. Having an unlimited supply of revives means no content is truly hard, just have to budget how many runs to make to farm revives.

They want content you have to think and strategize about. They want you to think of out of the box ways of defeating content. Instead, the community wants to farm revives and throw them at the content until it's done.

But then, the community gets mad because something can't be solo'd or has to involve using a resource. All the sudden because you might to use a revive or health pot, content is over tuned. When are we going to make up our minds?
But when they say, "here are the only champs you can use", that really limits the strategizing. On top of that, almost all of the champs are ones that most people don't have highly ranked. So now, to do the challenges, you have to use valuable rank-up materials on champs that you will most likely only use for these challenges. If you didn't rank them up before, it was for a reason.

Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.

EBG78

Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.

Very true. But again, there isn't really a whole lot of strategizing (what your main point was before) when they give you the champs you're allowed to use. Champ specific content isn't that unreasonable if given rank up materials as rewards in other challenges. I'd rather spend my rank up materials on champs that I plan to use for more than just one challenge. Especially the avenger one where there are 5 champs that I would need to take from r1 up to at least r4.

Demonzfyre

Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.
Very true. But again, there isn't really a whole lot of strategizing (what your main point was before) when they give you the champs you're allowed to use. Champ specific content isn't that unreasonable if given rank up materials as rewards in other challenges. I'd rather spend my rank up materials on champs that I plan to use for more than just one challenge. Especially the avenger one where there are 5 champs that I would need to take from r1 up to at least r4.

They just have to be on your team. They don't have to be used. You don't have to R4 every single one of them.

EBG78

They just have to be on your team. They don't have to be used. You don't have to R4 every single one of them.

Right. You don't HAVE to use every one of them. True. But just from watching a little of KarateMike's run through, he used Antman, BW, Thor, and IM in the first 6 fights or so. So you're choice is to either use rank up materials on them or a lot more revives.

Wicket329

Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.
Very true. But again, there isn't really a whole lot of strategizing (what your main point was before) when they give you the champs you're allowed to use. Champ specific content isn't that unreasonable if given rank up materials as rewards in other challenges. I'd rather spend my rank up materials on champs that I plan to use for more than just one challenge. Especially the avenger one where there are 5 champs that I would need to take from r1 up to at least r4.

Honestly, after thinking about it more, I’d say that r3 is probably sufficient. R3 was the top available rank when Gauntlet originally released, so it’s enough to get the job done. I remember my first run involving some maxed out 5* champs.

captain_rogers

The problem is not saying "do it with x champ", The problem is, the content is nothing mote than revive , deal as much as damage possible die and repeat.

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.

Legacy challenge is completely fine and fun
I agree in parts but for me the forced champs is the problem. I play for a very long time now, and half of the fun was finding the right champs for the job. Building up teams and synergies to do content. If you take that, then its just half of the fun. And even if they say we can use a good champ like in legacys challenge, it takes some fun away because it now just go through the motion how they want me to do it. For what do i need all this champs then? And maybe i dont like spidey…

The right champ stuff is justified if the difficulty is challenging but doable, and the rewards are actually good. In this case, both conditions are not met, so yeah, in this case, Ranking up is jot worth it.

[Deleted User]

The only problem is that players (farmers) used to clear any kind of content, no matter the difficulty. Now they have to pay/ play for those revives.
There are so many that cleared all Carinas and 100% Necropolis, and always asked for new and harder content. They are now Valiants, and cry that WoW and new Carinas are too hard.
Of course content is easy when you have infinite revives, lol.

Kabam should have ended farming before Necropolis.

Karatemike415

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.

This is just blatantly 100% incorrect.

With skilled play, every fight in the Avengers challenge can be soloed (I will give a crisp $20 bill to the first person to solo Dragon Man, but -)
Every fight except for Vision could be soloed in the Zemo challenge (same $20 for Dragon Man here)

The skill factor is absolutely there. Take some time to fully analyze the challenge and you will see that.
You aren't required to like the objective, but implying that it's a revive fest is disingenuous at best.

DNA3000

All the talk about the content is ment to be hard is showing me how much Kabam does not understand the Problem. i think the most people have no problem with hard content but with the way Kabam maks it hard.

This Game was always about having the right solution for the challenge. It was about building a roster and choosing the right champs for the right situation.

Let me give you another way to put it:

Lets say we have the task of building a car. All the parts needed and the skill to put them together. Now we buy Tools and oil them and clean them so we are ready for the job. Now you give us the task to build the engine and we say: „Cool now i can finally use all this shiny tools i prepared exactly for that.
You say: „No, u have to use just a hammer“
We reply: „But look at all the shiny tools i have, they would be perfect“
You say: „But i want it to be hard, so you have to use just the hammer“
We: „But look, there are screws and i have a screwdriver“
You: „HAAAAAAMMER“

You see the problem? This Game should be about you giving us challenges and we are solving them the way we think its the best. LOL, Necropolis all nice content because you gave us the riddle and we had to solve it. There is no fun in giving us the task and a bad solution, even if you give us the hammer for free!

I would argue the game was never what you describe, but there is no argument the game has not been the way you describe since Act 6.

This game was never about finding the "right" solution. It was originally about "use the one best solution" and the one best solution for anything was the best solution to everything, because the content was so simple back then there were no "other" solutions. It was Perfect Block teams. It was Star Lord. It was deal as much damage as possible while taking as little damage as possible in return using the most optimal solutions to both. At least among the higher tiers of the game, doing anything other than that was so unusual it was noteworthy.

I still remember all the posts talking about "but what if I don't have Star Lord?" or "what if I don't have a perfect block team ranked up?" Those complaints resonate every time challenge content is released.

Kabam shifted the game design post 12.0 and into Act 6 by introducing roster checks. The idea is you would need different things to do succeed at different fights, so no one champ could do it all. Act 6 introduced both rarity gates and more "RPG-like" fights designed to test roster. You couldn't just pick whatever you thought your best options were your roster and hope for the best. You needed champs that could actually satisfy the fight requirements. Sometimes that roster requirement was wide, and sometimes it was very narrow.

Since then we have the idea of path identities in monthly EQ and Act 7+, we have shifting metas in Battlegrounds, we have seasonal tactics and tags in war. The game is not just about picking whoever you think is best, it is also about growing roster constantly so you actually *have* viable options. And you might not have them. That's by design: part of this game is growing roster over time. Just like Act 7 is not about beating four bosses in an afternoon and moving on, it is about actually going through all the fights in all the maps to get to those bosses, growing roster is about getting crystals and pulling champs and slowly growing out your roster, and leveling up your roster. However long it takes.

Now, some people think this is a flaw, and I get that. Not everyone likes to do that. They just want to do the content. Just like some people just want to beat the Collector and move on, and they think everything else is just a time waste. But this game is not about that. It is about the journey not the destination. You have to do the fights on the paths on the maps to eventually get to the Collector. If you don't feel that makes sense, if you think that isn't fun, if you think the game is broken because it doesn't give you the choice to just do "the interesting fight", then this game is probably not for you. And if you think the process of growing roster to get the right champs to do the content that requires them is just a meaningless chore that doesn't belong in this game, that there should be short cuts around those requirements or that the requirements shouldn't even be there in the first place, then this game is also probably not for you, because I don't see that going away, I see that continuing to evolve into the future unabated, from Act 6 to Act 7 to Act 8 and beyond, from Cav to Thronebreaker EQ to whatever is next. Shifting BG metas has probably been the single biggest renaissance in roster growth incentivization ever, and I don't see them turning away from that either. All signs point to more, not less roster requirements. Showing up in Carinas challenges is not an anomaly, its the whole future of top tier content.

I understand not everyone feels that way, but that's just how the game is, and how it is going to be in the future. Players can vent about it, certainly there are times I need to vent off about some thing or other I don't like. But you're not going to change it. This game has a huge roster inventory that is getting bigger all the time, and it is in large part a game about collecting champions. Kabam is not going to move in a direction of "which champs you have doesn't matter." They are going to lean into the opposite direction, that which champs you have do matter, and no matter how many you have, you can always use more. The game has almost 300 champs in it. If the content only needs twelve, the whole premise of the game falls apart. The game needs most or all of the 300 to be useful, and the only way to do that is to make them non-redundant. And that means content that highlights or features different subsets of them at different times, so players want and need them, and continue to chase them.

Crcrcrc

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.
This is just blatantly 100% incorrect.

With skilled play, every fight in the Avengers challenge can be soloed (I will give a crisp $20 bill to the first person to solo Dragon Man, but -)
Every fight except for Vision could be soloed in the Zemo challenge (same $20 for Dragon Man here)

The skill factor is absolutely there. Take some time to fully analyze the challenge and you will see that.
You aren't required to like the objective, but implying that it's a revive fest is disingenuous at best.

After some practice I actually agree completely, I’d like to apologize in that regard. Everything has a counter and it’s very possible to do just as cheaply as lagacy’s challenge. The only thing holding me back right now is a lack of rank up materials for my avengers and zemo before I fully commit to a run.

It seems we all had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, I actually am really enjoying planning yours out. Hope this whole mess isn’t discouraging at all

(still not a fan of fintech’s though after looking through it.)

Karatemike415

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.
This is just blatantly 100% incorrect.

With skilled play, every fight in the Avengers challenge can be soloed (I will give a crisp $20 bill to the first person to solo Dragon Man, but -)
Every fight except for Vision could be soloed in the Zemo challenge (same $20 for Dragon Man here)

The skill factor is absolutely there. Take some time to fully analyze the challenge and you will see that.
You aren't required to like the objective, but implying that it's a revive fest is disingenuous at best.
After some practice I actually agree completely, I’d like to apologize in that regard. Everything has a counter and it’s very possible to do just as cheaply as lagacy’s challenge. The only thing holding me back right now is a lack of rank up materials for my avengers and zemo before I fully commit to a run.

It seems we all had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, I actually am really enjoying planning yours out. Hope this whole mess isn’t discouraging at all

Discouraging may be the understatement of the century, but that's life 🤙🏻

The_0wenpus

They've explained why this type of hard content exists. It's a direct result of people being able to farm revives without limit. Having an unlimited supply of revives means no content is truly hard, just have to budget how many runs to make to farm revives.

They want content you have to think and strategize about. They want you to think of out of the box ways of defeating content. Instead, the community wants to farm revives and throw them at the content until it's done.

But then, the community gets mad because something can't be solo'd or has to involve using a resource. All the sudden because you might to use a revive or health pot, content is over tuned. When are we going to make up our minds?
But when they say, "here are the only champs you can use", that really limits the strategizing. On top of that, almost all of the champs are ones that most people don't have highly ranked. So now, to do the challenges, you have to use valuable rank-up materials on champs that you will most likely only use for these challenges. If you didn't rank them up before, it was for a reason.
Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.

You do realize Kabam stopped revive farming, right?

DNA3000

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.
This is just blatantly 100% incorrect.

With skilled play, every fight in the Avengers challenge can be soloed (I will give a crisp $20 bill to the first person to solo Dragon Man, but -)
Every fight except for Vision could be soloed in the Zemo challenge (same $20 for Dragon Man here)

The skill factor is absolutely there. Take some time to fully analyze the challenge and you will see that.
You aren't required to like the objective, but implying that it's a revive fest is disingenuous at best.
After some practice I actually agree completely, I’d like to apologize in that regard. Everything has a counter and it’s very possible to do just as cheaply as lagacy’s challenge. The only thing holding me back right now is a lack of rank up materials for my avengers and zemo before I fully commit to a run.

It seems we all had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, I actually am really enjoying planning yours out. Hope this whole mess isn’t discouraging at all

Discouraging may be the understatement of the century, but that's life 🤙🏻

Well, I haven't seen anyone threaten to kill you yet, so you're still sitting in a somewhat better position than Dave's Iceman.

Of course, I don't really know what's going on in the Youtube comments sections of the world, because say what you want about the forums, they don't make me nauseous or psychopathically murderous. I'd rather eat the forums than read Youtube comments.

Karatemike415

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.
This is just blatantly 100% incorrect.

With skilled play, every fight in the Avengers challenge can be soloed (I will give a crisp $20 bill to the first person to solo Dragon Man, but -)
Every fight except for Vision could be soloed in the Zemo challenge (same $20 for Dragon Man here)

The skill factor is absolutely there. Take some time to fully analyze the challenge and you will see that.
You aren't required to like the objective, but implying that it's a revive fest is disingenuous at best.
After some practice I actually agree completely, I’d like to apologize in that regard. Everything has a counter and it’s very possible to do just as cheaply as lagacy’s challenge. The only thing holding me back right now is a lack of rank up materials for my avengers and zemo before I fully commit to a run.

It seems we all had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, I actually am really enjoying planning yours out. Hope this whole mess isn’t discouraging at all

Discouraging may be the understatement of the century, but that's life 🤙🏻
Well, I haven't seen anyone threaten to kill you yet

You literally threaten to kill me weekly because of Spider-Gwen

DNA3000

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.
This is just blatantly 100% incorrect.

With skilled play, every fight in the Avengers challenge can be soloed (I will give a crisp $20 bill to the first person to solo Dragon Man, but -)
Every fight except for Vision could be soloed in the Zemo challenge (same $20 for Dragon Man here)

The skill factor is absolutely there. Take some time to fully analyze the challenge and you will see that.
You aren't required to like the objective, but implying that it's a revive fest is disingenuous at best.
After some practice I actually agree completely, I’d like to apologize in that regard. Everything has a counter and it’s very possible to do just as cheaply as lagacy’s challenge. The only thing holding me back right now is a lack of rank up materials for my avengers and zemo before I fully commit to a run.

It seems we all had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, I actually am really enjoying planning yours out. Hope this whole mess isn’t discouraging at all

Discouraging may be the understatement of the century, but that's life 🤙🏻
Well, I haven't seen anyone threaten to kill you yet
You literally threaten to kill me weekly because of Spider-Gwen

There's no "complete Winter of Woe with only Spider Gwen on the team" challenge, so you get a pass. For now.

Pikolu

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.
This is just blatantly 100% incorrect.

With skilled play, every fight in the Avengers challenge can be soloed (I will give a crisp $20 bill to the first person to solo Dragon Man, but -)
Every fight except for Vision could be soloed in the Zemo challenge (same $20 for Dragon Man here)

The skill factor is absolutely there. Take some time to fully analyze the challenge and you will see that.
You aren't required to like the objective, but implying that it's a revive fest is disingenuous at best.
It seems we all had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, I actually am really enjoying planning yours out. Hope this whole mess isn’t discouraging at all

This is why it is important to give yourself time before you jump to conclusions. There has been a lot of unwarranted hate going around these challenges, and I honestly would love to see more challenges like it in the future; however, many people might not want to create a challenge with their name attached to it just because then they have to deal with the landslide of hate that goes their way.

Polygon

Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.
Very true. But again, there isn't really a whole lot of strategizing (what your main point was before) when they give you the champs you're allowed to use. Champ specific content isn't that unreasonable if given rank up materials as rewards in other challenges. I'd rather spend my rank up materials on champs that I plan to use for more than just one challenge. Especially the avenger one where there are 5 champs that I would need to take from r1 up to at least r4.
Honestly, after thinking about it more, I’d say that r3 is probably sufficient. R3 was the top available rank when Gauntlet originally released, so it’s enough to get the job done. I remember my first run involving some maxed out 5* champs.

You’re forgetting something crucial here. MSD was using a 7* Mojo, Fintech was using the highest level mojo available to him.

Karate Mike? He used an r5 ascended Zemo. These challenges were done with the instrument “calibrated” to the max possible rank. This sets the bar higher than it should and in my opinion should have been the first red flag before approving the content seeing as rank up resources/signature stones weren’t given for theses specific champions.

How are we suppose to have enough sig stones for Black Widow or 6* mojo when sig stones are still scarce in 2024?

The only counter argument I can see here is “its permanent content” which is just a band aid fix type of response and not actually addressing the fact these creators used the highest possible rank.

Also, people used rank 3 and 5* for EOP when revive farming was still available...

DNA3000

For example take baran zemo challenege, just deal as much as damage as possible, then die and start from again, There is no skill factor, Take avengers challenge, They ask us to rank up mid champs for rewards that aren't even worth it.
This is just blatantly 100% incorrect.

With skilled play, every fight in the Avengers challenge can be soloed (I will give a crisp $20 bill to the first person to solo Dragon Man, but -)
Every fight except for Vision could be soloed in the Zemo challenge (same $20 for Dragon Man here)

The skill factor is absolutely there. Take some time to fully analyze the challenge and you will see that.
You aren't required to like the objective, but implying that it's a revive fest is disingenuous at best.
It seems we all had a bit of a knee-jerk reaction, I actually am really enjoying planning yours out. Hope this whole mess isn’t discouraging at all

This is why it is important to give yourself time before you jump to conclusions. There has been a lot of unwarranted hate going around these challenges, and I honestly would love to see more challenges like it in the future; however, many people might not want to create a challenge with their name attached to it just because then they have to deal with the landslide of hate that goes their way.

They could allow players to make challenge content and just say I made it.

What are people going to do? Complain the defenders talk too much? Threaten to unsubscribe from me?

DNA3000

Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.
Very true. But again, there isn't really a whole lot of strategizing (what your main point was before) when they give you the champs you're allowed to use. Champ specific content isn't that unreasonable if given rank up materials as rewards in other challenges. I'd rather spend my rank up materials on champs that I plan to use for more than just one challenge. Especially the avenger one where there are 5 champs that I would need to take from r1 up to at least r4.
Honestly, after thinking about it more, I’d say that r3 is probably sufficient. R3 was the top available rank when Gauntlet originally released, so it’s enough to get the job done. I remember my first run involving some maxed out 5* champs.
You’re forgetting something crucial here. MSD was using a 7* Mojo, Fintech was using the highest level mojo available to him.

Karate Mike? He used an r5 ascended Zemo. These challenges were done with the instrument “calibrated” to the max possible rank. This sets the bar higher than it should and in my opinion should have been the first red flag before approving the content seeing as rank up resources/signature stones weren’t given for theses specific champions.

How are we suppose to have enough sig stones for Black Widow or 6* mojo when sig stones are still scarce in 2024?

The only counter argument I can see here is “its permanent content” which is just a band aid fix type of response and not actually addressing the fact these creators used the highest possible rank.

Also, people used rank 3 and 5* for EOP when revive farming was still available...

It is not a counter argument because it is no argument at all. It is a simple statement of fact.

The content is playtested to ensure it is doable at all. It is playtested to test the difficulty of the content, not the strength and skill of the playtester.

Playtesters test content with all sorts of advantages most players won't have, because the point is not to see how good the testers are. It is to see how difficult is, and to make sure it hasn't been made impossible to do.

If the testers tested with max rank champs, that means any player could replicate their roster with enough time. And that's all that matters. The idea that they were supposed to test with some "average" roster completely misses the point of challenge content. It isn't content intended for everyone to be able to do, or even everyone in the target audience. It is meant to be something aspirational, that most players, even those it was *intended* for, have to build towards. And that means build skill, build roster, and even build resources.

People say "oh, the designers tested with max rank champs" as if that matters. It doesn't. If you don't have what they had when they tested it, then that becomes part of the content: getting it. However long that takes.

Perhaps there's some misguided morality thing happening here. That if only the designers were "forced" to use my roster, they wouldn't be so quick to judge me when I say it is too difficult. Which is a funny Kafka trap. If you can't do it, you have no right to judge its difficulty. If you can do it, you don't understand the plight of people who can't.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to do them all. But I don't just accept the fact that the playtesters might have used max champs to test it, I *expect* them to do so. I would *demand* that they do so, because if they didn't, they have no idea if they made "challenge" content that someone can just spend some catalysts on the right champ to cheese. Doing anything else would be dumb.

You see this as a "band aid" because you are operating under a false assumption: that acquiring champs and ranking them up to do content is a necessary evil that shouldn't have a large influence on how players approach content. It is not. Acquiring and ranking champs is not just something that happens in the game, it is a fundamental part of the game. Chasing champs, however long it takes, and ranking them up, however long it takes, is just as much a part of doing a content as tapping on the screen to make the defenders fall down.

Demonzfyre

They've explained why this type of hard content exists. It's a direct result of people being able to farm revives without limit. Having an unlimited supply of revives means no content is truly hard, just have to budget how many runs to make to farm revives.

They want content you have to think and strategize about. They want you to think of out of the box ways of defeating content. Instead, the community wants to farm revives and throw them at the content until it's done.

But then, the community gets mad because something can't be solo'd or has to involve using a resource. All the sudden because you might to use a revive or health pot, content is over tuned. When are we going to make up our minds?
But when they say, "here are the only champs you can use", that really limits the strategizing. On top of that, almost all of the champs are ones that most people don't have highly ranked. So now, to do the challenges, you have to use valuable rank-up materials on champs that you will most likely only use for these challenges. If you didn't rank them up before, it was for a reason.
Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.
You do realize Kabam stopped revive farming, right?

Yes?

Demonzfyre

Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.
Very true. But again, there isn't really a whole lot of strategizing (what your main point was before) when they give you the champs you're allowed to use. Champ specific content isn't that unreasonable if given rank up materials as rewards in other challenges. I'd rather spend my rank up materials on champs that I plan to use for more than just one challenge. Especially the avenger one where there are 5 champs that I would need to take from r1 up to at least r4.
Honestly, after thinking about it more, I’d say that r3 is probably sufficient. R3 was the top available rank when Gauntlet originally released, so it’s enough to get the job done. I remember my first run involving some maxed out 5* champs.
You’re forgetting something crucial here. MSD was using a 7* Mojo, Fintech was using the highest level mojo available to him.

Karate Mike? He used an r5 ascended Zemo. These challenges were done with the instrument “calibrated” to the max possible rank. This sets the bar higher than it should and in my opinion should have been the first red flag before approving the content seeing as rank up resources/signature stones weren’t given for theses specific champions.

How are we suppose to have enough sig stones for Black Widow or 6* mojo when sig stones are still scarce in 2024?

The only counter argument I can see here is “its permanent content” which is just a band aid fix type of response and not actually addressing the fact these creators used the highest possible rank.

Also, people used rank 3 and 5* for EOP when revive farming was still available...

Did you just say sign stones, 6* sign stones, are scarce in 2024?

Polygon

Yes but the challenge isn't impossible with those champs or everyone will just Herc it to death. We all know that's what will happen. Peoples idea of strategizing is whether they choose Herc or Aegon.

Also, champ specific content is also part of how they make things more difficult because of the revive farming.
Very true. But again, there isn't really a whole lot of strategizing (what your main point was before) when they give you the champs you're allowed to use. Champ specific content isn't that unreasonable if given rank up materials as rewards in other challenges. I'd rather spend my rank up materials on champs that I plan to use for more than just one challenge. Especially the avenger one where there are 5 champs that I would need to take from r1 up to at least r4.
Honestly, after thinking about it more, I’d say that r3 is probably sufficient. R3 was the top available rank when Gauntlet originally released, so it’s enough to get the job done. I remember my first run involving some maxed out 5* champs.
You’re forgetting something crucial here. MSD was using a 7* Mojo, Fintech was using the highest level mojo available to him.

Karate Mike? He used an r5 ascended Zemo. These challenges were done with the instrument “calibrated” to the max possible rank. This sets the bar higher than it should and in my opinion should have been the first red flag before approving the content seeing as rank up resources/signature stones weren’t given for theses specific champions.

How are we suppose to have enough sig stones for Black Widow or 6* mojo when sig stones are still scarce in 2024?

The only counter argument I can see here is “its permanent content” which is just a band aid fix type of response and not actually addressing the fact these creators used the highest possible rank.

Also, people used rank 3 and 5* for EOP when revive farming was still available...
It is not a counter argument because it is no argument at all. It is a simple statement of fact.

The content is playtested to ensure it is doable at all. It is playtested to test the difficulty of the content, not the strength and skill of the playtester.

Playtesters test content with all sorts of advantages most players won't have, because the point is not to see how good the testers are. It is to see how difficult is, and to make sure it hasn't been made impossible to do.

If the testers tested with max rank champs, that means any player could replicate their roster with enough time. And that's all that matters. The idea that they were supposed to test with some "average" roster completely misses the point of challenge content. It isn't content intended for everyone to be able to do, or even everyone in the target audience. It is meant to be something aspirational, that most players, even those it was *intended* for, have to build towards. And that means build skill, build roster, and even build resources.

People say "oh, the designers tested with max rank champs" as if that matters. It doesn't. If you don't have what they had when they tested it, then that becomes part of the content: getting it. However long that takes.

Perhaps there's some misguided morality thing happening here. That if only the designers were "forced" to use my roster, they wouldn't be so quick to judge me when I say it is too difficult. Which is a funny Kafka trap. If you can't do it, you have no right to judge its difficulty. If you can do it, you don't understand the plight of people who can't.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to do them all. But I don't just accept the fact that the playtesters might have used max champs to test it, I *expect* them to do so. I would *demand* that they do so, because if they didn't, they have no idea if they made "challenge" content that someone can just spend some catalysts on the right champ to cheese. Doing anything else would be dumb.

You see this as a "band aid" because you are operating under a false assumption: that acquiring champs and ranking them up to do content is a necessary evil that shouldn't have a large influence on how players approach content. It is not. Acquiring and ranking champs is not just something that happens in the game, it is a fundamental part of the game. Chasing champs, however long it takes, and ranking them up, however long it takes, is just as much a part of doing a content as tapping on the screen to make the defenders fall down.

Aspirational to build towards a rank 5 thor, antman, black widow etc when r5 gems are extremely rare as it is?

Aspirational to give BW 200 sig stones when sigs are still scarce (dont say BGs shop because that specific trade hasn’t been updated in ages and even with it , a ton of other BGs or War champs want the sig more.

I never said its evil to rank up champions in the game but for people that are F2P like me, resources are limited and BGs is the main game mode with the most consistent rewards .

However, BGs has a ton of p2w players, to maintain my rank, I need to prioritize sig stones and rank up material on those champions.

I was hoarding my t6cc for the longest time under the assumption r5 gems would be more available but guess what? We’ve only seen them in a loyalty offer and Necropolis. Next i assume is 8.4.

Are you telling me you would r5 those avenger champions over champs that are actually not useless outside of the current challenge (bw does have use but is outclassed by other skill champs) ?

Look at the main thread on carinas, and tally up all the people that talked about how resources for rank up and sigs etc could have been given to make these challenges more viable