Raids: Entry cost versus rewards

So we've begun a discussion in our ally, and I'm curious about the community thoughts on the topic.

After opening up more loot boxes on the raid paths, a lot of us are feeling the entry cost far outweighs the rewards.

With the overflow of glory last go round, a lot of us bought tickets, but there's very little drive for the vast majority of us to invest in raids again without a change in rewards.

It's a shame as I personally have enjoyed the format with the updates from the first iteration.

At this point though, gotta say for me, the cost is too high.

Wondering how others are feeling...

Thoughts?

Comments

MrSakuragi

Are you only opening loot boxes or exploring also?

DrZola

I’m going to guess that it depends on the value obtained from the loot boxes.

Our ally is post-retirement, basically several remaining players who’ve been together for several years. We ran a lane of Raids the first week and had fun, even if we knew we wouldn’t clear the map. Prizes were mediocre—all T6c shards. For the effort, it seemed underwhelming, especially given issues like charge wiping and other bugs in the mode.

Fast forward to this week. Because we don’t do higher AQ maps, we don’t get tickets from AQ. A good bit of our “excess” glory had been utilized on rankup material. And nearly everyone is saving things like loyalty & artifacts for the respective 7* crystals. At least three of the previous Raid week participants balked at the cost for this week (especially considering the previous loot box prizes)—so we sat it out this time.

Could we have used glory for Raid tickets? Sure. Is it possible to get 180 Raid tickets by just free playing the game? Sure, but most of our ally are grown-ups with jobs, family, etc. For us, the value proposition of the mode didn’t make sense.

Dr. Zola

Toproller89

The cost doesn't make sense at all from my perspective, I joined an ally recently and just after a week into being there I was suddenly expected to cough up for tickets and join in on Raid when I wasn't even allocated at first.

One look at the prices for 180 tickets and I was out of that ally quicker than a speeding bullet.

I can respect the game mode and how some summoners think it might be worth it, but its definitely not for me.

Drax_Reflexologist

Are you only opening loot boxes or exploring also?

Working towards exploration, but anticipating only getting 3 boxes on the path.

SecondSkriller

180 tickets is an absurd price for the absolute trash that are those boxes. Haven’t seen anything good in 6 boxes.

Ninexblue

Posted something similar on reddit, but I sort of agree the price may not be sustainable, but right now I think it is OK. Here are my thoughts:

1) I used to save incursion artifacts for the 7*, but frankly I switched to other crystals long ago to get the ISO. Now that there is that new crystal from solo events to get gold and ISO, my incursion artifacts will all be going to Raids. This months incursions event should allow everyone to save a ton of artifacts.

2) Raid rewards, even if you just do 3 loot boxes, are going to average out to be worth it in my opinion. I know it's RNG, but you won't be getting just the t6c fragments forever. I've already had a ton of titan shards and even if they are not guaranteed, this has got to be one of the easiest ways to build up your 7* star roster with top champs.

3) Resist the urge to use units on raids tickets. There is a full month between raids, using a combination of artifacts/glory/ whatever else you are comfortable allocating should get you there without too much effort.

I understand these past two months may be an outlier with the glory screw-up and this incursions event, but with a little forward thinking and planning I think we can get at least another raid or two in without much stress.

BigPoppaCBONE

If I'd gotten something better than 3X stupid T6CC shards, I'd feel better about the cost.

Cat_Murdock

Whether or not the rewards of Raids are worth it vs the cost is going to vary person to person based on Progression, needs, inventory etc. But for me, just purely looking at the numbers, I come out ahead rewards wise.

My Battlegroup runs Map 6, which means I’ll get 72 tickets during the non-Raid weeks. (If you run 7 or 8, you don’t have to supplement as much) If I buy the remaining 108 with Glory only, that costs me 8,100 Glory. On the surface, that looks like a lot. And sure it kinda is, but really it’s more like 2,025 Glory a week, since it’s a monthly mode. But how does that amount of Glory compare to what I could buy with it?

Exploring Raids, not including the chests, gives a chunk of gold, a T6B, a T3A, 2x 25% T6CC crystals, and 7,500 7* shards. If I were to buy these rewards from the Glory Store (with Paragon prices), a T6B is about 1860, a T3A is 1860, and 50% T6CC is 6,300. I can’t get shards here, and I don’t need to buy gold, but that’s 10,020 Glory worth of spending, for not the full rewards.

This week from the chests, I got a combined total of 100% T6CC (spread across 3 classes). If bought this as well (over the other weeks) thats about 12,000 more Glory. Obviously this will vary from week to week, but a chunk of T6 is pretty common. We placed much higher than we normally do with Ranked rewards as well, so theres an increase there that also helps offset the cost.

I don’t do Battlegrounds and am not buying stuff from there, so if you are, that its own consideration that I’m not accounting for here. Ultimately though, I like the mode and have fun with it, and get pretty good rewards that make it worth it.

Not saying any of this to tell you whether or not it’s worth it to you in your own situation, just doing a little breakdown of where I see it

Vegeta9001

Pretty sure my alliance will skip out next few raids, tired of getting 25% t6cc when most of us can get that from the glory store weekly.

BeastDad

Absolutely the last raid we run. I thought maybe they would have taken the constructive feedback into account after the first raid was such a disaster.

The rewards are nowhere near worth the cost.

Skyfaw

It’s just RNG I got pretty lucky this go round. Even so getting some solid guaranteed rewards like 7.5 7* shards and other goodies I’ll take that all day.

DrZola

Whether or not the rewards of Raids are worth it vs the cost is going to vary person to person based on Progression, needs, inventory etc. But for me, just purely looking at the numbers, I come out ahead rewards wise.

My Battlegroup runs Map 6, which means I’ll get 72 tickets during the non-Raid weeks. (If you run 7 or 8, you don’t have to supplement as much) If I buy the remaining 108 with Glory only, that costs me 8,100 Glory. On the surface, that looks like a lot. And sure it kinda is, but really it’s more like 2,025 Glory a week, since it’s a monthly mode. But how does that amount of Glory compare to what I could buy with it?

Exploring Raids, not including the chests, gives a chunk of gold, a T6B, a T3A, 2x 25% T6CC crystals, and 7,500 7* shards. If I were to buy these rewards from the Glory Store (with Paragon prices), a T6B is about 1860, a T3A is 1860, and 50% T6CC is 6,300. I can’t get shards here, and I don’t need to buy gold, but that’s 10,020 Glory worth of spending, for not the full rewards.

This week from the chests, I got a combined total of 100% T6CC (spread across 3 classes). If bought this as well (over the other weeks) thats about 12,000 more Glory. Obviously this will vary from week to week, but a chunk of T6 is pretty common. We placed much higher than we normally do with Ranked rewards as well, so theres an increase there that also helps offset the cost.

I don’t do Battlegrounds and am not buying stuff from there, so if you are, that its own consideration that I’m not accounting for here. Ultimately though, I like the mode and have fun with it, and get pretty good rewards that make it worth it.

Not saying any of this to tell you whether or not it’s worth it to you in your own situation, just doing a little breakdown of where I see it

I think @Cat_Murdock and my comment above represent a good bit of the spectrum re: Raids. If you’re an engaged alliance that runs all the traditional alliance modes, Raids can be a great twist to an otherwise boring week of AQ that offers upsized rewards versus costs. If, on the other hand, you’re a less engaged alliance or one with a smaller group of engaged players, it’s very likely the rewards for Raids will disappoint compared to the costs.

Thus far, it appears to be another way to engage a group that’s already highly engaged in the game—and that’s fine. Our ally will wait for less costly opportunities to do Raids if and when they come.

Dr. Zola

captain_rogers

Is the entry cost mandatory though? I agree it is a high reward mode, but maybe reduce the entry cost? Idk, but if the entry cost persists, I don't think our ally can manage to do raids next time.

DrZola

Is the entry cost mandatory though? I agree it is a high reward mode, but maybe reduce the entry cost? Idk, but if the entry cost persists, I don't think our ally can manage to do raids next time.

I’d like to see a simple ratio adjustment (downward) for the various currencies. Then again, I’d also like to see the charges remain intact in the event of a DC, and I don’t think the team addressed that either as far as I can tell.

Dr. Zola

Rohith21

I’m going to guess that it depends on the value obtained from the loot boxes.

Our ally is post-retirement, basically several remaining players who’ve been together for several years. We ran a lane of Raids the first week and had fun, even if we knew we wouldn’t clear the map. Prizes were mediocre—all T6c shards. For the effort, it seemed underwhelming, especially given issues like charge wiping and other bugs in the mode.

Fast forward to this week. Because we don’t do higher AQ maps, we don’t get tickets from AQ. A good bit of our “excess” glory had been utilized on rankup material. And nearly everyone is saving things like loyalty & artifacts for the respective 7* crystals. At least three of the previous Raid week participants balked at the cost for this week (especially considering the previous loot box prizes)—so we sat it out this time.

Could we have used glory for Raid tickets? Sure. Is it possible to get 180 Raid tickets by just free playing the game? Sure, but most of our ally are grown-ups with jobs, family, etc. For us, the value proposition of the mode didn’t make sense.

Dr. Zola

Agreeing completely with this Dr. Zola. The reward brackets is so widely spread out & the RNG is often times disappointing when you put in the effort to clear the bosses. Some system of different chests in the same map giving out different rewards would have been nice.

Asyalol

I agree with what you say. The awards are not up to the fight and the effort made.
I received 1500 shine 7* and in another trunk, I received 10 paragon crystal or I have 7 4* champions and 3 5* champions.
First time I have made the raid, but I am very disappointed with the awards.

Emomike

I think if you are exploring the map 100% worth it. This is the first raid our ally did and I got 1500 7* shards 25% skill t6cc and 7* ultron. We are gonna 100% so will getting those rewards too. Honestly this is much better then aq. We only do a boss rush in AQ. I'll probably end up using Loyalty and artifics to buy my tickets. Considering how expensive 7* are in both stores for now you will get more bang for your buck buying raid tickets.

A_Fungi

They definitely need to do something about the RNG nature of the chests.

I only got 2 chests the first raid, my teammates did not perform well, stuck on 3rd Maestro. 25% T6cc and 1500 7* shards

Got all 3 boxes this time, 10 paragons (8 4* & 2 5*), 1.5k 7* shards and 3k 7* shards

I bought some raid tickets from the extra glory last go, play map 7 AQ and usually buy 30 tickets every week with glory to prevent the costs from escalating too much.

I wish I got something good guaranteed (Ultron is going to come down this round, so I think that comes with some guarantees)

But it is a relatively fun mode to work with my teammates

Wozzle007

I’ll be honest, I’ve found this round of Raids more fun than AQ and AW. But the RNG rewards really makes the game feel unfair. KT1 got 20k of Titan shards in the first Raids and 7* Ultron in the second raids. That’s great him, it truly is. I’m getting T6cc every time except once where I got 1.5k of 7* shards.

I think the calculation by @Cat_Murdock does show that on balance, it’s still more fruitful to raids than to not, but the cost feels really steep. And then it becomes a balance between effort versus rewards and the rewards don’t feel that astronomical to make it ‘Must Do or left behind.’ If anything the RNG deflates it for me. Create a Raids store, give use raids units and let us choose our own rewards. None of this RNG nonsense.

It feels like Raids being a totally different mode will take quite a lot of upkeep to get all the bugs out. If people turn away because of the cost to enter, will the mode actually be worth it.

GarryDK

Had this in the 3rd chest. Had a skill One same amount in another. So yeah I think it’s worth the cost.

Rayven5220

Had this in the 3rd chest. Had a skill One same amount in another. So yeah I think it’s worth the cost.

You didn't get a full catalyst plus a 1/4 catalyst.

Your 1/4 catalyst shards formed a full one, so it shows like that.
It's a weird visual bug.

A_Fungi

Had this in the 3rd chest. Had a skill One same amount in another. So yeah I think it’s worth the cost.

You know that isnt 1.5 t6cc right? It's a display bug.

Likely just means you completed a T6cc with the shards you received.

GarryDK

Had this in the 3rd chest. Had a skill One same amount in another. So yeah I think it’s worth the cost.
You didn't get a full catalyst plus a 1/4 catalyst.

Your 1/4 catalyst shards formed a full one, so it shows like that.
It's a weird visual bug.

Well that sucks!

Drax_Reflexologist

Thanks for all the inputs! Its helping us have a good discussion in our ally about our path forward.

While I have a chance @Cat_Murdock thanks for all your infographics, artwork, and Inktober. They are top notch.

BeastDad

Had this in the 3rd chest. Had a skill One same amount in another. So yeah I think it’s worth the cost.
You didn't get a full catalyst plus a 1/4 catalyst.

Your 1/4 catalyst shards formed a full one, so it shows like that.
It's a weird visual bug.
Well that sucks!

It sure does.

N8buckeye08

Not running raid this time around, but it would be nice to know drop rates with the specificity they provided for banquet crystals

unknown

This content has been removed.

Ercarret

It depends on how much you value the other stores. For me, I can't spare any artifacts or loyalty since I both want to pull the 7* champs in their respective stores. However, I think the glory store is absolutely abysmal (I'm Valiant), so I have no problem dumping my glory towards the tickets.

However, it also depends a lot of how good your alliance is. Mine is very casual so most people can't really spare the ticket cost in any of the resources. The glory store is a lot better for Thronebreaker and Paragon players than for Valiant ones, so that resource is less expendable for a lot of my mates. As such, we're only a couple of guys who really takes Raids seriously. That's too few to fully explore. I managed to get down right-side Maestro on my own but I'm not sure how much further I'll be able to get on my own. The guys on the left side have managed to get their second boss down to about 50% health so they should be able to beat all three of them. However, since the guys on the middle path are struggling with even the first boss and probably won't be able to disable that node, I doubt anyone of us would be able to beat the final Ultron boss.

So we're in a situation where the left-path guys will probably get a decent chunk of rewards, the middle guys probably aren't getting any, and my guys will get at least one chest. I got 20K Titan shards from it so it was totally worth the price this time, but I was the one who got stuck at the first boss last time around and didn't get a single chest reward. I had a miserable experience last time. While it's better now, I mainly play Raids because I don't have anything worthwhile to spend the glory on in the store. If I had, I would probably say that it's better to simply rack up those improved points in regular AQ for most people. It takes a very specific type of alliance to maximise Raids rewards and make the runs worth it in general, regardless of your specific RNG on each chest.

Jefechuta

I think Raids are 100% worth, not taking into account the Loot rewards, the exploration ones feel worth enough for me tbh.

Polygon

Whether or not the rewards of Raids are worth it vs the cost is going to vary person to person based on Progression, needs, inventory etc. But for me, just purely looking at the numbers, I come out ahead rewards wise.

My Battlegroup runs Map 6, which means I’ll get 72 tickets during the non-Raid weeks. (If you run 7 or 8, you don’t have to supplement as much) If I buy the remaining 108 with Glory only, that costs me 8,100 Glory. On the surface, that looks like a lot. And sure it kinda is, but really it’s more like 2,025 Glory a week, since it’s a monthly mode. But how does that amount of Glory compare to what I could buy with it?

Exploring Raids, not including the chests, gives a chunk of gold, a T6B, a T3A, 2x 25% T6CC crystals, and 7,500 7* shards. If I were to buy these rewards from the Glory Store (with Paragon prices), a T6B is about 1860, a T3A is 1860, and 50% T6CC is 6,300. I can’t get shards here, and I don’t need to buy gold, but that’s 10,020 Glory worth of spending, for not the full rewards.

This week from the chests, I got a combined total of 100% T6CC (spread across 3 classes). If bought this as well (over the other weeks) thats about 12,000 more Glory. Obviously this will vary from week to week, but a chunk of T6 is pretty common. We placed much higher than we normally do with Ranked rewards as well, so theres an increase there that also helps offset the cost.

I don’t do Battlegrounds and am not buying stuff from there, so if you are, that its own consideration that I’m not accounting for here. Ultimately though, I like the mode and have fun with it, and get pretty good rewards that make it worth it.

Not saying any of this to tell you whether or not it’s worth it to you in your own situation, just doing a little breakdown of where I see it

I got a combined total of forming 1 t6cc though, which to me is a slap in the face given that a daily crystal can give you this in a day , if not a weeks worth and without having to spend a ton of glory on AQ revives and potions (Raid revives are not enough since we can only chip down so much before timing out)

2 solutions:
Either increase the cap of raid revives we could buy or increase the rewards to make the playerbase not complain about yet another aspect of the game being so RNG reliant