BG Sandbagging

No, not the original sandbagging via deck manipulation. I think we all know that doesn't work anymore.

This is about sandbagging by virtue of intentionally losing in VT.

I don't claim to be the best at this game, and I take the VT very slow. I do just enough to get the objectives every other day, and even playing at that pace, I usually make it to GC with 10-14 days left in the season.

Once in GC, I continue to play the same way, just what's necessary for objectives, and I usually work my way up to Quantum.

Without fail though, in the last 5 days of the season, I start facing rosters that dwarf my 6 million account. Players that must be far better than me skill wise also, cause they win fights I would never think were possible. I lose these fights and end up finishing the season down in Uru, or maybe Gamma.

And that's perfectly fine. I'm not upset about not being the best in the game, nor am I upset about having to face them.

My question is simply "Where are these guys the whole season?" They're clearly strong competitors, stronger than me for sure. So if I can make it to GC so much faster, while playing casually, how is it that these guys who are better than me don't start showing up in GC til the final 5 days of the season?

I can only assume it's because they're intentionally tanking in VT to maximize all the objectives there.

But didn't Kabam say they were going to be looking for that and punishing that behavior?

Would be interesting to hear from Kabam to know if they're still monitoring that behavior, or if they scrapped it assuming there isn't a fair way to gauge intentional losses versus genuine losses.

If that's the case, I'd say a simple way to identify would be seeing how long a player takes to get through VT, then where they actually finish in GC.

In other words, if they spend 25 days in VT, then finish in Quantum.....there's probably something fishy there.

Comments

Pikolu

I speak from my own experience this season, I was busy doing other things this month and barely got to GC last night because I decided to finish pushing through VT these past couple days. I imagine I'm not alone in waiting until last minute to actually get BGs done.

mgj0630

I speak from my own experience this season, I was busy doing other things this month and barely got to GC last night because I decided to finish pushing through VT these past couple days. I imagine I'm not alone in waiting until last minute to actually get BGs done.

I'll grant you there's been a lot to do this month, so on its own, it could be an outlier.

That said, I've noticed this trend since they implemented the change for where people start in VT.

So I think this is the third time in a row I've noticed it. It's definitely a pattern for many people.

ahmynuts

I just got to the gc an hour ago. I didn't really feel like playing at all until i heard about the store buff then started grinding

ReignkingTW

Not again

ReignkingTW

I just got to the gc an hour ago. I didn't really feel like playing at all until i heard about the store buff then started grinding

Wait so you are saying you'll do BGs if the rewards are worth it?

Jefechuta

This is not sandbagging; that would be losing intentionally to farm points, they just wait for the last days for whatever reason could be to do the grind, they wont gain anything additional, more so, they will probably get less points instead since they will probably face less strong rosters so they will play less matches.

And since those are big rosters, they would have reach that high ranks anyway.

There is no real advantage here by just waiting for the last days, so probably the reason would be that they didnt want to play BGs/didnt have time enough, or whatever the reason can be.

And if they want to just wait every 2 days to play to get the objectives easily, thats not punishable if they dont lose intentionally to do so.

I personally waited till the last days because I wasnt in the mood to play BGs, so I just rushed in last weekend.

ahmynuts

I just got to the gc an hour ago. I didn't really feel like playing at all until i heard about the store buff then started grinding
Wait so you are saying you'll do BGs if the rewards are worth it?

I know it's an absolutely wild concept but yes XD

Standardman1989

I speak from my own experience this season, I was busy doing other things this month and barely got to GC last night because I decided to finish pushing through VT these past couple days. I imagine I'm not alone in waiting until last minute to actually get BGs done.

Personal luck I'm stuck in vibranium 2 for the first time .. 2 7r2 9 6r5 14 6r4 5 ascent. No worries I would have vibranium 3 and 10 games it's getting too difficult for my rooster

Charlie21540

For one that's not sandbagging. And 2, I'm one of those people that doesn't touch BGs until there's like 2 weeks left. Even then, I only do a few matches here and there. I haven't hit GC since the deathless piece

laserjohn26

In my alliance which is casual but finish p2 every season and top 45 aq. and we have a 350k minimum for bgs. With 7 days left in the season we aren't even half way to all alliance milestones and basically do at least the last 3rd in the last 48 hours. Most people in the alliance only play bgs because they have to, and wait until the last day or two.

jcphillips7

In my alliance which is casual but finish p2 every season and top 45 aq. and we have a 350k minimum for bgs. With 7 days left in the season we aren't even half way to all alliance milestones and basically do at least the last 3rd in the last 48 hours. Most people in the alliance only play bgs because they have to, and wait until the last day or two.

That sounds like an awful slog to meet a requirement for something you don’t enjoy doing.

I’d at least be playing throughout the season here and there so I’m not met with a grind the last day or two.

GroundedWisdom

There's a difference between waiting until the last minute and tanking. Tanking is when Players intentionally take Losses to camp out in lower Tiers.

BigPoppaCBONE

I didn't know people were still doing decks with 1 and 2 stars in them until I ran into a few this season.

laserjohn26

In my alliance which is casual but finish p2 every season and top 45 aq. and we have a 350k minimum for bgs. With 7 days left in the season we aren't even half way to all alliance milestones and basically do at least the last 3rd in the last 48 hours. Most people in the alliance only play bgs because they have to, and wait until the last day or two.
That sounds like an awful slog to meet a requirement for something you don’t enjoy doing.

I’d at least be playing throughout the season here and there so I’m not met with a grind the last day or two.

That's what I do. Win 3 matches every 2 days. No idea why so many wait until the end. I think they believe it's all weaker accounts like it was when bgs first started. Now that so many people are in alliances that have minimums and wait until the last minute I think it's more difficult at the end possibly.

BeastDad

So I should be punished because I didn’t play much throughout the season and I’m playing slightly more at the end of the season?

I think not.

LilMaddogHT

My question is simply "Where are these guys the whole season?" They're clearly strong competitors, stronger than me for sure. So if I can make it to GC so much faster, while playing casually, how is it that these guys who are better than me don't start showing up in GC til the final 5 days of the season?

Plenty of ways to play BGs. Many expect big accounts to go at a Rabbits race from the start and complete for the very top. That's fine but also it's completely unnecessary pending your perspective of the game mode, rewards, etc...

If you win 3 matches every 2 days for milestones, you reach GC in 18 days. 10 days left to play in GC. "Net" 13 wins in GC during that last week or so and you have a fairly decent ranking.

Front load it, back load it, spread it out. Players can choose whatever fits their schedule and sometimes spending less time in BGs = more enjoyment elsewhere w/ little loss to in-game rewards.

Pikolu

In my alliance which is casual but finish p2 every season and top 45 aq. and we have a 350k minimum for bgs. With 7 days left in the season we aren't even half way to all alliance milestones and basically do at least the last 3rd in the last 48 hours. Most people in the alliance only play bgs because they have to, and wait until the last day or two.
That sounds like an awful slog to meet a requirement for something you don’t enjoy doing.

I’d at least be playing throughout the season here and there so I’m not met with a grind the last day or two.
That's what I do. Win 3 matches every 2 days. No idea why so many wait until the end. I think they believe it's all weaker accounts like it was when bgs first started. Now that so many people are in alliances that have minimums and wait until the last minute I think it's more difficult at the end possibly.

It is definitely most difficult at the very beginning when you're paired up against people like Fintech and Beroman.

mgj0630

For one that's not sandbagging. And 2, I'm one of those people that doesn't touch BGs until there's like 2 weeks left. Even then, I only do a few matches here and there. I haven't hit GC since the deathless piece

Sandbagging has a unique stigma in this game, cause the original form of sandbagging was deck manipulation.

To the world at large though, sandbagging is deliberately playing below one's capability.

So yes, if someone is intentionally losing matches in VT, that is a form of sandbagging.

Regardless of what you want to call it though, I'm just curious of Kabam was still paying attention to that.

If many players are genuinely waiting until the last 5 days to play BGs at all, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with that.

But if they're playing BGs every couple days to score objective rewards, but camping out (losing intentionally - sandbagging) to avoid stiffer competition in where claiming those objective rewards may cost more, that's a different story, and one that I recall Kabam saying they would be monitoring because it does in fact hinder other players ability to climb the ranks in VT.

Pikolu

For one that's not sandbagging. And 2, I'm one of those people that doesn't touch BGs until there's like 2 weeks left. Even then, I only do a few matches here and there. I haven't hit GC since the deathless piece
Sandbagging has a unique stigma in this game, cause the original form of sandbagging was deck manipulation.

To the world at large though, sandbagging is deliberately playing below one's capability.

So yes, if someone is intentionally losing matches in VT, that is a form of sandbagging.

Regardless of what you want to call it though, I'm just curious of Kabam was still paying attention to that.

If many players are genuinely waiting until the last 5 days to play BGs at all, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with that.

But if they're playing BGs every couple days to score objective rewards, but camping out (losing intentionally - sandbagging) to avoid stiffer competition in where claiming those objective rewards may cost more, that's a different story, and one that I recall Kabam saying they would be monitoring because it does in fact hinder other players ability to climb the ranks in VT.

If these people get 3 wins every 48 hours, then it would take most of the season to get through VT alone if they never lose. However, if they lose, then it'll take longer. I know many people who get their 3 wins and call it good for the next couple days until the objective resets.

laserjohn26

In my alliance which is casual but finish p2 every season and top 45 aq. and we have a 350k minimum for bgs. With 7 days left in the season we aren't even half way to all alliance milestones and basically do at least the last 3rd in the last 48 hours. Most people in the alliance only play bgs because they have to, and wait until the last day or two.
That sounds like an awful slog to meet a requirement for something you don’t enjoy doing.

I’d at least be playing throughout the season here and there so I’m not met with a grind the last day or two.
That's what I do. Win 3 matches every 2 days. No idea why so many wait until the end. I think they believe it's all weaker accounts like it was when bgs first started. Now that so many people are in alliances that have minimums and wait until the last minute I think it's more difficult at the end possibly.
It is definitely most difficult at the very beginning when you're paired up against people like Fintech and Beroman.

Well yes the very first day. I start on the second day and win 3 matches everytime objectives reset and have yet to lose more than 3 matches total on my way to gc since I started doing this 4 seasons ago. Twice, never losing in victory track.

BringPopcorn

The rewards have not even worth trying other than the 48 objectives.. a lot of people just do matches, doesnt mean they sandbag.

mgj0630

For one that's not sandbagging. And 2, I'm one of those people that doesn't touch BGs until there's like 2 weeks left. Even then, I only do a few matches here and there. I haven't hit GC since the deathless piece
Sandbagging has a unique stigma in this game, cause the original form of sandbagging was deck manipulation.

To the world at large though, sandbagging is deliberately playing below one's capability.

So yes, if someone is intentionally losing matches in VT, that is a form of sandbagging.

Regardless of what you want to call it though, I'm just curious of Kabam was still paying attention to that.

If many players are genuinely waiting until the last 5 days to play BGs at all, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with that.

But if they're playing BGs every couple days to score objective rewards, but camping out (losing intentionally - sandbagging) to avoid stiffer competition in where claiming those objective rewards may cost more, that's a different story, and one that I recall Kabam saying they would be monitoring because it does in fact hinder other players ability to climb the ranks in VT.
If these people get 3 wins every 48 hours, then it would take most of the season to get through VT alone if they never lose. However, if they lose, then it'll take longer. I know many people who get their 3 wins and call it good for the next couple days until the objective resets.

I'm gonna have to respectfully disagree with that. If my math is right, doing just three fights when the objectives pop up every other day, I think it would take something like 20 days to enter GC (assuming no losses). That still leaves about 10 days left in GC, or approximately 1/3 of the season.

If an individual uses elder marks to win those three fights in VT, then burn some energy to intentionally lose a few, ensuring they stay in VT longer, and do the GC push in the final few days, they in fact getting a better overall value from their effort.

Again, to those of you saying you truly don't play until the final few days, there's no issue with that.

I'm just curious how many truly don't play, versus how many play for objectives every other day, but consciously stay in VT to ensure they can get those objective rewards easier by having confidence they're not playing folks on their level.

captain_rogers

I just got to the gc an hour ago. I didn't really feel like playing at all until i heard about the store buff then started grinding
Wait so you are saying you'll do BGs if the rewards are worth it?

If not for rewards, the only mode I'll play in mcoc is story quests

GroundedWisdom

For one that's not sandbagging. And 2, I'm one of those people that doesn't touch BGs until there's like 2 weeks left. Even then, I only do a few matches here and there. I haven't hit GC since the deathless piece
Sandbagging has a unique stigma in this game, cause the original form of sandbagging was deck manipulation.

To the world at large though, sandbagging is deliberately playing below one's capability.

So yes, if someone is intentionally losing matches in VT, that is a form of sandbagging.

Regardless of what you want to call it though, I'm just curious of Kabam was still paying attention to that.

If many players are genuinely waiting until the last 5 days to play BGs at all, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with that.

But if they're playing BGs every couple days to score objective rewards, but camping out (losing intentionally - sandbagging) to avoid stiffer competition in where claiming those objective rewards may cost more, that's a different story, and one that I recall Kabam saying they would be monitoring because it does in fact hinder other players ability to climb the ranks in VT.

Intentionally losing, or taking a dive, is tanking. That's not the same as playing every few days for Milestones, or waiting until the last to push. The VT is not on a sliding scale. It moves upwards with progress. Meaning if they're not actually fighting and losing, they're not diving. When you talk about mandating how often people play, that's a slippery slope.
Now, on a personal note, I agree that there are knockback effects on the system from all of it really. For me, it's an indication there's a problem with the system overall if people have to wait until the last week to play. However, it's not the same as manipulating the system by taking a dive for easy Wins.

SirGamesBond

I reached GC as soon as week 3 hits.
Doing so I don't have to play week 1/2 GC which is pointless for those who don't need a high solo score.

But I had fun in diamond and vibranium till week 3 with energy this time around. I Started by using different champs which I don't particularly draft and test waters.
And many matches it leads to a fun emote spamming. One needs to find #fun.
Still doing not more than 1-2 extra matches above objective.

There is one diffrence this season. A mild buff to valient token value, participation increased significantly final day.

LilMaddogHT

Well yes the very first day. I start on the second day and win 3 matches everytime objectives reset and have yet to lose more than 3 matches total on my way to gc since I started doing this 4 seasons ago. Twice, never losing in victory track.

Exactly... getting similar successful results 🤘🏼

mgj0630

For one that's not sandbagging. And 2, I'm one of those people that doesn't touch BGs until there's like 2 weeks left. Even then, I only do a few matches here and there. I haven't hit GC since the deathless piece
Sandbagging has a unique stigma in this game, cause the original form of sandbagging was deck manipulation.

To the world at large though, sandbagging is deliberately playing below one's capability.

So yes, if someone is intentionally losing matches in VT, that is a form of sandbagging.

Regardless of what you want to call it though, I'm just curious of Kabam was still paying attention to that.

If many players are genuinely waiting until the last 5 days to play BGs at all, then so be it. There's nothing wrong with that.

But if they're playing BGs every couple days to score objective rewards, but camping out (losing intentionally - sandbagging) to avoid stiffer competition in where claiming those objective rewards may cost more, that's a different story, and one that I recall Kabam saying they would be monitoring because it does in fact hinder other players ability to climb the ranks in VT.
Intentionally losing, or taking a dive, is tanking. That's not the same as playing every few days for Milestones, or waiting until the last to push. The VT is not on a sliding scale. It moves upwards with progress. Meaning if they're not actually fighting and losing, they're not diving. When you talk about mandating how often people play, that's a slippery slope.
Now, on a personal note, I agree that there are knockback effects on the system from all of it really. For me, it's an indication there's a problem with the system overall if people have to wait until the last week to play. However, it's not the same as manipulating the system by taking a dive for easy Wins.

No one in this thread ever even hinted anything that implied mandated playing time.

Frankly, it's all gotten derailed though.

The whole point of the post was nothing more than to ask Kabam if they were still monitoring for folks tanking (whatever you want to call it....intentionally losing to stay in VT longer).

I don't do it myself, and I get into GC every season, so frankly, I don't care for myself.

It was just an observation I've made many seasons in a row now, that it seems as if some really strong accounts don't show up in GC til the final 5 days or so.

Seems to me that IF those people were playing throughout the season, they would have reached GC much faster.

If they don't play at all til the final 5 days, so be it...no issue at all.

But if they are playing throughout the season, and not getting out of VT til the very end, only to then end up very high in GC ranks, that seems to me as if they're are intentionally losing in VT.

Now as I said in the original post, I typically make it into GC with about 10 days left in the season, so this doesn't effect me at all. But it sure as hell sucks for weaker accounts hoping to get into GC, but getting stuck because the higher level accounts are just intentionally hanging out in VT.

And as was the original ask, I was curious if Kabam was still monitoring for that behavior or not.

Avnish

I am valiant having 4 m account I don't play bg so much but when my elder's mark are going to above 9k then I play last week to spend them. I don't see anything wrong. I will play when I have to play. And imo most of player do push in last week. I can't say anyone to play from day1 and reach GC in 14 days..

For this season I decided not to play bg because of low reward and outdated store. I just played whenever I don't have anything to do. Yesterday I was at diamond 2. But after valiant store announcement. I played today around 20 matches and crossed vib1,2,3 by today and reached GC.

It is been a habit of lower account player to drag this thing again and again with some different prospective. And why kabam punish those player who push in last week instead of playing whole season. It is my choice when I want to play no matter it is in last week or 1st week. Take it as a game. There are other things to do in life apart from this game

Nono_49

I am a player with 3.6M power account and it was commun to face accounts with easily 1.5M+ ip higher than me. I won couples, i lost couples. In the end I would say it was close to a 50/50. So to answer you during the season we are stuck in the middle. Facing player of our level or higher and winning/ losing like everyone else. Even if personally this season I lacked of time and energy to fully play BGs I finished with a shy 32 points

ItsClobberinTime

Participation has been down the whole season, like 60%-70%. Sandbagging is not the culprit.