Could be a way to add a deathless quake into the game with that kit, but there is little no point entirely reworking a character that has been a 5* for so long when there are so many that are already 6/7* in dire need of help.
Magik I want to see the reasoning behind though.
Actually, the situation is dire because Magik and Quake aren’t even 6, 7-stars. A 6 or 7-star will still retain some relevance in the game, the two champs mentioned above will not. That’s the direction you & Kabam are aligned on anyway.
So people aren't sat on 7* and 6* versions of dogwater characters. I'd much rather have a 5* usable champion that I can still use in content as late as WoW or AW Showcase than 6/7* that are unusable.
They should focus energy and resources into making the current 6/7* pool viable rather than altering champions that don't need imminent attention.
And who told you they would be unusable? Miike literally said she would still be at Ghost level after the nerf. The whole point would be to take her from absolutely broken to God tier, you're wrong.
I don't trust Miike one bit when it comes to guessing power level. Remember wolverine, who's using him these days honestly. Yes he's fun. But nowhere game breaking like Miike said years before he was finally released as a 6 star. And look at SW now, he said the same and she's released.
So no I don't think quake would be at ghost level after the nerf, without concussion.
The main issue is she would go from being able to counter 90% of fights to maybe 10-20% of fights, nodes that directly damage you she could not longer bypass without concussion, debuff shruggers would now shrug the physvuln since it's not a concussion, mighty charge, true strike, power gainers. Unless she got an overhaul she wouldn't be "ghost level" ghost can output massive damage. Quake would basically be HulkLite with the potential to cheese certain fights that honestly wouldn't need cheesing. If you could "new quake" fights they're probably not worth quaking in the first place barring maybe onslaught.
She will still be able to do 90% as only thing changing is u wont be able to use her against domino or any other aar stuff or even debuff immune but she will still be able to do everything else
No, the change would be concussion to physvuln, and you couldn't evade if the physvuln isn't there, so anyone that cleanses debuffs, or mighty charge, or tranquilize, or tranquillity node, or debuff immune node would shut her down. So would nodes that apply damage to you since concussion wouldn't bypass it.
Right now you can quake debuff immune, mighty charge, kingpins and stuff like that.
Yes but kabam said its not working as intended now still with concussion as its in kit of u need it to evade so against debuff immune u wouldnt evade changing the debuff really doesnt change much especially when fixing a bug also
I am certain that 50% the people who voted ‘no’, including @Vegeta9001 who has spent so much time on this thread, would love to see a good solution implemented for Quake.
Namely, adjusting (nerfing) her to ‘God Tier’ or Ghost-level and subsequently releasing her as 6 and 7-stars.
I'm indifferent on quake but I'd very much enjoy the chance to play magik again. Even with the boost there just isn't any logic in using her and she was always one of my favorites including OG non nerfed scarlet witch. Honestly. Since they don't like herc so much I'd suggest readjusting the two of them to be hard herc destroyers 🤣🤣 which I think a six star magik would already be as is. But change it to like...while in limbo magik negates all immortality or indestructible buffs or something like that. Maybe limbo can be an instant nullify aura a la terrax/mephisto/dust etc etc range
Could be a way to add a deathless quake into the game with that kit, but there is little no point entirely reworking a character that has been a 5* for so long when there are so many that are already 6/7* in dire need of help.
Magik I want to see the reasoning behind though.
Actually, the situation is dire because Magik and Quake aren’t even 6, 7-stars. A 6 or 7-star will still retain some relevance in the game, the two champs mentioned above will not. That’s the direction you & Kabam are aligned on anyway.
So people aren't sat on 7* and 6* versions of dogwater characters. I'd much rather have a 5* usable champion that I can still use in content as late as WoW or AW Showcase than 6/7* that are unusable.
They should focus energy and resources into making the current 6/7* pool viable rather than altering champions that don't need imminent attention.
And who told you they would be unusable? Miike literally said she would still be at Ghost level after the nerf. The whole point would be to take her from absolutely broken to God tier, you're wrong.
I don't trust Miike one bit when it comes to guessing power level. Remember wolverine, who's using him these days honestly. Yes he's fun. But nowhere game breaking like Miike said years before he was finally released as a 6 star. And look at SW now, he said the same and she's released.
So no I don't think quake would be at ghost level after the nerf, without concussion.
The main issue is she would go from being able to counter 90% of fights to maybe 10-20% of fights, nodes that directly damage you she could not longer bypass without concussion, debuff shruggers would now shrug the physvuln since it's not a concussion, mighty charge, true strike, power gainers. Unless she got an overhaul she wouldn't be "ghost level" ghost can output massive damage. Quake would basically be HulkLite with the potential to cheese certain fights that honestly wouldn't need cheesing. If you could "new quake" fights they're probably not worth quaking in the first place barring maybe onslaught.
She will still be able to do 90% as only thing changing is u wont be able to use her against domino or any other aar stuff or even debuff immune but she will still be able to do everything else
No, the change would be concussion to physvuln, and you couldn't evade if the physvuln isn't there, so anyone that cleanses debuffs, or mighty charge, or tranquilize, or tranquillity node, or debuff immune node would shut her down. So would nodes that apply damage to you since concussion wouldn't bypass it.
Right now you can quake debuff immune, mighty charge, kingpins and stuff like that.
They could just make the physical vulnerability passive if the debuff turns out to be too detrimental for her.
As for the last part, congratulations! You've just named a few reasons why she's absolutely busted and can't be a 6* in her current state.
Everyone keeps saying she's broken and yet I have yet to see a single person complete end game contents (Necropolis, AoE) with her. She's not broken. Remember, they said the same thing about Wolverine and Scarlett Witch, which was why they hesitated to introduce them as 6* and above. Maybe once upon a time Quake was broken but not anymore, and not against enemies with a billion health points.
100% agreed. Champions come and go, I'm starting to use Herc less and less because of other awesome options. Having a quake doesn't mean 1. Everyone would use her, 2. Everyone can use her. Remember when they said scarlet witch is still so op she would break the game, and here we are now releasing her in 7* rarity, with a dupe on the get-go.
Scarlet Witch is nowhere near as broken as Quake lol not even close. If you're skilled enough Quake is basically immune to damage and won't trigger any defensive abilities because she doesn't need to land any hits to deal damage, additionally any defensive abilities that trigger after the defender throws a special will also never trigger because they won't gain any power the whole fight. There is a huge difference between both.
Everyone keeps saying she's broken and yet I have yet to see a single person complete end game contents (Necropolis, AoE) with her. She's not broken. Remember, they said the same thing about Wolverine and Scarlett Witch, which was why they hesitated to introduce them as 6* and above. Maybe once upon a time Quake was broken but not anymore, and not against enemies with a billion health points.
100% agreed. Champions come and go, I'm starting to use Herc less and less because of other awesome options. Having a quake doesn't mean 1. Everyone would use her, 2. Everyone can use her. Remember when they said scarlet witch is still so op she would break the game, and here we are now releasing her in 7* rarity, with a dupe on the get-go.
Scarlet Witch is nowhere near as broken as Quake lol not even close. If you're skilled enough Quake is basically immune to damage and won't trigger any defensive abilities because she doesn't need to land any hits to deal damage, additionally any defensive abilities that trigger after the defender throws a special will also never trigger because they won't gain any power the whole fight. There is a huge difference between both.
The key words being "if you're skilled enough"
Doesn't matter, just because someone can't do it doesn't mean she isn't broken. It's apart of her kit, if you can't use it properly that's a you problem, she's broken nonetheless because it's in her kit.
It's also interesting that they want these 2 "broken op" champs to be phased out, but they never stopped introducing the terrible useless champs to the higher rarities like Groot, iron Patriot or superior ironman.. I wonder if they will be available as 7*s before a potential buff
It's also interesting that they want these 2 "broken op" champs to be phased out, but they never stopped introducing the terrible useless champs to the higher rarities like Groot, iron Patriot or superior ironman.. I wonder if they will be available as 7*s before a potential buff
That's my main gripe. I want champions that they're introducing into the pool to at least be usable before the touch anyone else. Stop introducing trash that is unusable to the pool when there is so many middle of the road champs that are actually usable, niche or fun that could be there instead.
I'm going to be frank, I can use quake as a 5* to do fights 7*s struggle with, but if champions like Groot, Captain America, ironfist, superior ironman and iron patriot ever get added to the 7* pool. Dang, I'd rather use a 5* anyday.
It's also interesting that they want these 2 "broken op" champs to be phased out, but they never stopped introducing the terrible useless champs to the higher rarities like Groot, iron Patriot or superior ironman.. I wonder if they will be available as 7*s before a potential buff
I think plan with 7s is they wont see a 7 till buff as look at red skull he entered after a buff we have nc as a 7 the same month he was buffed i can see luke being a 7 next patch then next titan update sinister gets his buff in the pool so that is what i think is the plan with 7s is they wont get till buff so a lot of bad champs wont get a 7 for time
I know this is a gacha game and understand changes happen but the concept of holistically phasing out potentially someone’s favorite character/champion is cruel. Just release a weaker version maybe even tweak the kit a little more so they have some viability for a hot minute in current meta.
I know this is a gacha game and understand changes happen but the concept of holistically phasing out potentially someone’s favorite character/champion is cruel. Just release a weaker version maybe even tweak the kit a little more so they have some viability for a hot minute in current meta.
They want to tweak the kit but this is what the argument is about some dont want the kit to change and some would
I know this is a gacha game and understand changes happen but the concept of holistically phasing out potentially someone’s favorite character/champion is cruel. Just release a weaker version maybe even tweak the kit a little more so they have some viability for a hot minute in current meta.
Its literally just the most basic, most NORMAL, possible change that would be made if this was ANY OTHER GAME. I literally cannot begin to understand why some children in this community are so upset at the idea of nerfs they would rather never even play champs again than see them taken down JUST ONE PEG so they can be 6 or 7 stars. Its beyond childish and extremely short sighted.
It's also interesting that they want these 2 "broken op" champs to be phased out, but they never stopped introducing the terrible useless champs to the higher rarities like Groot, iron Patriot or superior ironman.. I wonder if they will be available as 7*s before a potential buff
That's my main gripe. I want champions that they're introducing into the pool to at least be usable before the touch anyone else. Stop introducing trash that is unusable to the pool when there is so many middle of the road champs that are actually usable, niche or fun that could be there instead.
I'm going to be frank, I can use quake as a 5* to do fights 7*s struggle with, but if champions like Groot, Captain America, ironfist, superior ironman and iron patriot ever get added to the 7* pool. Dang, I'd rather use a 5* anyday.
Bro's still acting like a Quake nerf would take 6 months to design and implement so we would stop getting buffs during that time 💀
So, I can across this comment on the direction of Quake from @Kabam Miike:
And I couldn’t disagree more with it.
In my opinion, it makes a lot more sense to adjust (nerf) Quake such that she can be reintroduced into the game, rather than phase her out.
I just think that this is such a bad direction to take with any champion.
But what do you think? Would you rather see Quake adjusted and have her become relevant in today’s meta? Or do you agree with Kabam?
I think quake should be left as is and made a 6*. Not everyone quake. I personally think there are way stronger champ at 7* now and think it’s wrong they won’t put at 6*. Same goes for Magik. Let’s take a look at fam… you get hit with 1 sp2 from fam you dead 95% of the time. His sp2 is nuts. The destroyer is an insane champ. There and a lot of high powered characters @ 7*.
So, I can across this comment on the direction of Quake from @Kabam Miike:
And I couldn’t disagree more with it.
In my opinion, it makes a lot more sense to adjust (nerf) Quake such that she can be reintroduced into the game, rather than phase her out.
I just think that this is such a bad direction to take with any champion.
But what do you think? Would you rather see Quake adjusted and have her become relevant in today’s meta? Or do you agree with Kabam?
I think quake should be left as is and made a 6*. Not everyone quake. I personally think there are way stronger champ at 7* now and think it’s wrong they won’t put at 6*. Same goes for Magik. Let’s take a look at fam… you get hit with 1 sp2 from fam you dead 95% of the time. His sp2 is nuts. The destroyer is an insane champ. There and a lot of high powered characters @ 7*.
The argument that "not everyone can quake" therefore "not broken" doesn't make sense. I'm sure there are some people out there who can't intercept with Herc, does that mean he's not broken? Quake's kit is broken, if you can't use it properly that's on you, and it doesn't mean it's not broken.
If you get hit with his special that's also your fault, Magik's limbo damage can't be avoided unless you have aar. You seem to be under the impression that your skills dictate how strong a champ is, and that's not it, the kit itself does.
So, I can across this comment on the direction of Quake from @Kabam Miike:
And I couldn’t disagree more with it.
In my opinion, it makes a lot more sense to adjust (nerf) Quake such that she can be reintroduced into the game, rather than phase her out.
I just think that this is such a bad direction to take with any champion.
But what do you think? Would you rather see Quake adjusted and have her become relevant in today’s meta? Or do you agree with Kabam?
I think quake should be left as is and made a 6*. Not everyone quake. I personally think there are way stronger champ at 7* now and think it’s wrong they won’t put at 6*. Same goes for Magik. Let’s take a look at fam… you get hit with 1 sp2 from fam you dead 95% of the time. His sp2 is nuts. The destroyer is an insane champ. There and a lot of high powered characters @ 7*.
“Not everyone can do the broken thing so its not broken” is not the winning argument you think it is
I know this is a gacha game and understand changes happen but the concept of holistically phasing out potentially someone’s favorite character/champion is cruel. Just release a weaker version maybe even tweak the kit a little more so they have some viability for a hot minute in current meta.
Its literally just the most basic, most NORMAL, possible change that would be made if this was ANY OTHER GAME. I literally cannot begin to understand why some children in this community are so upset at the idea of nerfs they would rather never even play champs again than see them taken down JUST ONE PEG so they can be 6 or 7 stars. Its beyond childish and extremely short sighted.
It's also interesting that they want these 2 "broken op" champs to be phased out, but they never stopped introducing the terrible useless champs to the higher rarities like Groot, iron Patriot or superior ironman.. I wonder if they will be available as 7*s before a potential buff
That's my main gripe. I want champions that they're introducing into the pool to at least be usable before the touch anyone else. Stop introducing trash that is unusable to the pool when there is so many middle of the road champs that are actually usable, niche or fun that could be there instead.
I'm going to be frank, I can use quake as a 5* to do fights 7*s struggle with, but if champions like Groot, Captain America, ironfist, superior ironman and iron patriot ever get added to the 7* pool. Dang, I'd rather use a 5* anyday.
Bro's still acting like a Quake nerf would take 6 months to design and implement so we would stop getting buffs during that time 💀
They used to take 2-3 months for simple number changes to champs. You realise whenever they alter a champion they have to go through rigorous testing with their own staff, then get put into testing with the CCP. Contrary to the communities beliefs, there is an extensive amount of testing with each hero rebalancing, minor or large.
It's also interesting that they want these 2 "broken op" champs to be phased out, but they never stopped introducing the terrible useless champs to the higher rarities like Groot, iron Patriot or superior ironman.. I wonder if they will be available as 7*s before a potential buff
That's my main gripe. I want champions that they're introducing into the pool to at least be usable before the touch anyone else. Stop introducing trash that is unusable to the pool when there is so many middle of the road champs that are actually usable, niche or fun that could be there instead.
I'm going to be frank, I can use quake as a 5* to do fights 7*s struggle with, but if champions like Groot, Captain America, ironfist, superior ironman and iron patriot ever get added to the 7* pool. Dang, I'd rather use a 5* anyday.
Bro's still acting like a Quake nerf would take 6 months to design and implement so we would stop getting buffs during that time 💀
They used to take 2-3 months for simple number changes to champs. You realise whenever they alter a champion they have to go through rigorous testing with their own staff, then get put into testing with the CCP. Contrary to the communities beliefs, there is an extensive amount of testing with each hero rebalancing, minor or large.
They used to take 2-3 months when the rebalancing program didn't exist, there's a reason it exists now. They have so many champs they need to tune up and a few that need to be tuned down they need a team that works on rebalancing constantly so it doesn't take them 20 years to finish tuning up and down every champ in the game.
They do have to go through testing indeed, that's what the beta is for, every champ who gets a buff goes through beta testing too this isn't anything new.
I never said there wasn't, however thinking this would disrupt the rebalancing program and bring a halt to all the buffs for a few months is ridiculous and very unlikely to happen. They have a team working on rebalancing every month for a reason.
It's also interesting that they want these 2 "broken op" champs to be phased out, but they never stopped introducing the terrible useless champs to the higher rarities like Groot, iron Patriot or superior ironman.. I wonder if they will be available as 7*s before a potential buff
That's my main gripe. I want champions that they're introducing into the pool to at least be usable before the touch anyone else. Stop introducing trash that is unusable to the pool when there is so many middle of the road champs that are actually usable, niche or fun that could be there instead.
I'm going to be frank, I can use quake as a 5* to do fights 7*s struggle with, but if champions like Groot, Captain America, ironfist, superior ironman and iron patriot ever get added to the 7* pool. Dang, I'd rather use a 5* anyday.
Bro's still acting like a Quake nerf would take 6 months to design and implement so we would stop getting buffs during that time 💀
They used to take 2-3 months for simple number changes to champs. You realise whenever they alter a champion they have to go through rigorous testing with their own staff, then get put into testing with the CCP. Contrary to the communities beliefs, there is an extensive amount of testing with each hero rebalancing, minor or large.
I never said there wasn't, however thinking this would disrupt the rebalancing program and bring a halt to all the buffs for a few months is ridiculous and very unlikely to happen. They have a team working on rebalancing every month for a reason.
The rebalancing team are exactly who would be working to adjust quake. So yes, it would take time out of and alter their roadmap/schedule.
I'm going to leave it here though, no point going backwards and forwards for eternity. I'm not entirely opposed to a quake change, I'd much rather a new quake like deathless quake and magik. I'd just much rather the champions that are useless and ineffective to be changed first.
It's also interesting that they want these 2 "broken op" champs to be phased out, but they never stopped introducing the terrible useless champs to the higher rarities like Groot, iron Patriot or superior ironman.. I wonder if they will be available as 7*s before a potential buff
That's my main gripe. I want champions that they're introducing into the pool to at least be usable before the touch anyone else. Stop introducing trash that is unusable to the pool when there is so many middle of the road champs that are actually usable, niche or fun that could be there instead.
I'm going to be frank, I can use quake as a 5* to do fights 7*s struggle with, but if champions like Groot, Captain America, ironfist, superior ironman and iron patriot ever get added to the 7* pool. Dang, I'd rather use a 5* anyday.
Bro's still acting like a Quake nerf would take 6 months to design and implement so we would stop getting buffs during that time 💀
They used to take 2-3 months for simple number changes to champs. You realise whenever they alter a champion they have to go through rigorous testing with their own staff, then get put into testing with the CCP. Contrary to the communities beliefs, there is an extensive amount of testing with each hero rebalancing, minor or large.
I never said there wasn't, however thinking this would disrupt the rebalancing program and bring a halt to all the buffs for a few months is ridiculous and very unlikely to happen. They have a team working on rebalancing every month for a reason.
The rebalancing team are exactly who would be working to adjust quake. So yes, it would take time out of and alter their roadmap/schedule.
I'm going to leave it here though, no point going backwards and forwards for eternity. I'm not entirely opposed to a quake change, I'd much rather a new quake like deathless quake and magik. I'd just much rather the champions that are useless and ineffective to be changed first.
They can easily if no change for new champs do the quake nerf then next rebalance info if no changes magik easy sorted then both can be starting to get relevant while still have time to buff champs like they did with nightcrawler btw
To be fair, I don't even agree with our POV necessarily. I think that it would be much better for players to have a small adjustment made to Quake so that we can release her, but I have been through enough of these situations to know that my mental health is better off by not making any changes at this time.
This change is pretty small, but it would allow the game team to actually be able to counter Quake in certain content, and allows players to start using her again. IMO, it just makes sense, but I made it clear to the team that unless we have a majority of players saying that they are open to a change, then Quake stays as a 5 Star forever.
To be fair, I don't even agree with our POV necessarily. I think that it would be much better for players to have a small adjustment made to Quake so that we can release her, but I have been through enough of these situations to know that my mental health is better off by not making any changes at this time.
I just want to play her again now and then even if its what u and the game team wants as rarity lock should be only there until find a solution which we saw for quake of how to make her not broken
To be fair, I don't even agree with our POV necessarily. I think that it would be much better for players to have a small adjustment made to Quake so that we can release her, but I have been through enough of these situations to know that my mental health is better off by not making any changes at this time.
This change is pretty small, but it would allow the game team to actually be able to counter Quake in certain content, and allows players to start using her again. IMO, it just makes sense, but I made it clear to the team that unless we have a majority of players saying that they are open to a change, then Quake stays as a 5 Star forever.
How can you know if majority of players are open to a change for Quake? Sending an in game poll?
To be fair, I don't even agree with our POV necessarily. I think that it would be much better for players to have a small adjustment made to Quake so that we can release her, but I have been through enough of these situations to know that my mental health is better off by not making any changes at this time.
This change is pretty small, but it would allow the game team to actually be able to counter Quake in certain content, and allows players to start using her again. IMO, it just makes sense, but I made it clear to the team that unless we have a majority of players saying that they are open to a change, then Quake stays as a 5 Star forever.
How can you know if majority of players are open to a change for Quake? Sending an in game poll?
Just look at results of this poll the favour is too keep her how she is nothing will change
To be fair, I don't even agree with our POV necessarily. I think that it would be much better for players to have a small adjustment made to Quake so that we can release her, but I have been through enough of these situations to know that my mental health is better off by not making any changes at this time.
This change is pretty small, but it would allow the game team to actually be able to counter Quake in certain content, and allows players to start using her again. IMO, it just makes sense, but I made it clear to the team that unless we have a majority of players saying that they are open to a change, then Quake stays as a 5 Star forever.
To be fair, I don't even agree with our POV necessarily. I think that it would be much better for players to have a small adjustment made to Quake so that we can release her, but I have been through enough of these situations to know that my mental health is better off by not making any changes at this time.
This change is pretty small, but it would allow the game team to actually be able to counter Quake in certain content, and allows players to start using her again. IMO, it just makes sense, but I made it clear to the team that unless we have a majority of players saying that they are open to a change, then Quake stays as a 5 Star forever.
How can you know if majority of players are open to a change for Quake? Sending an in game poll?
Just look at results of this poll the favour is too keep her how she is nothing will change
212 votes isn’t indicative of how the community feels. By that logic, Blob would have won the Champion Vote
To be fair, I don't even agree with our POV necessarily. I think that it would be much better for players to have a small adjustment made to Quake so that we can release her, but I have been through enough of these situations to know that my mental health is better off by not making any changes at this time.
This change is pretty small, but it would allow the game team to actually be able to counter Quake in certain content, and allows players to start using her again. IMO, it just makes sense, but I made it clear to the team that unless we have a majority of players saying that they are open to a change, then Quake stays as a 5 Star forever.
How can you know if majority of players are open to a change for Quake? Sending an in game poll?
Just look at results of this poll the favour is too keep her how she is nothing will change
212 votes isn’t indicative of how the community feels. By that logic, Blob would have won the Champion Vote
Even then youtube comments when they first said about the changes people were like no keep how is im sure other platforms was the same its why kabam said theres a divide yeah forums isnt a great place for this type of stuff as we saw blob losing and shathra winning it does need to be a in game thing but polls normally only a forum thing to vote on
Comments
Namely, adjusting (nerfing) her to ‘God Tier’ or Ghost-level and subsequently releasing her as 6 and 7-stars.
As for the remaining 50%, they can’t be helped …
As for the last part, congratulations! You've just named a few reasons why she's absolutely busted and can't be a 6* in her current state.
It's apart of her kit, if you can't use it properly that's a you problem, she's broken nonetheless because it's in her kit.
I'm going to be frank, I can use quake as a 5* to do fights 7*s struggle with, but if champions like Groot, Captain America, ironfist, superior ironman and iron patriot ever get added to the 7* pool. Dang, I'd rather use a 5* anyday.
If you get hit with his special that's also your fault, Magik's limbo damage can't be avoided unless you have aar. You seem to be under the impression that your skills dictate how strong a champ is, and that's not it, the kit itself does.
They do have to go through testing indeed, that's what the beta is for, every champ who gets a buff goes through beta testing too this isn't anything new.
I never said there wasn't, however thinking this would disrupt the rebalancing program and bring a halt to all the buffs for a few months is ridiculous and very unlikely to happen. They have a team working on rebalancing every month for a reason.
I'm going to leave it here though, no point going backwards and forwards for eternity. I'm not entirely opposed to a quake change, I'd much rather a new quake like deathless quake and magik. I'd just much rather the champions that are useless and ineffective to be changed first.
This change is pretty small, but it would allow the game team to actually be able to counter Quake in certain content, and allows players to start using her again. IMO, it just makes sense, but I made it clear to the team that unless we have a majority of players saying that they are open to a change, then Quake stays as a 5 Star forever.