AW Season 49

Matty_Ice

Why would you blacklist one of the few tactic champions who can deal with hazard shift?

Comments

Midnightfox

My iceman is sad.

unknown

This content has been removed.

jcphillips7

How are these choices even picked? Is it based on data collected of most banned champs the season prior, or is it just a way to royally piss people off?

Genuinely curious
It's based on data collection.

Kushala and Bishop had the highest ban rate at Elite tier, so therefore blacklist. Bishop and Iceman at Expert Tier and Iceman at Challenger Tier, same deal. These are not conspiracy theory, anti-player style decisions in the background. It has been and continues to be entirely based on what we the players choose to ban the most.

Word. I had a feeling that it was something like that, because it does seem a little too on-the-nose sometimes on who's selected, but I guess it makes perfect sense in actuality.

BigBlueOx

Champs still in the pool who work for Hazard Shift:

Both Sections: Destroyer, Dragon Man, Kushala, Sauron, Black Widow CV, Havok, Colossus, Dust, White Tiger if there's lots of buffs, Emma Frost with enough practice.

Section 1 Specifically: Void, Toad, Werewolf By Night

Section 2 Specifically: Gambit, Man-Thing, Storm X, any of them with an Odin Pre-Fight

I get it, it sucks that a champion you invested in got blacklisted, but please don't try and push the agenda that there's only a few Hazard Shift tactic options. It just means you spend one of your phases building tactic prowess and the other dealing damage.
Completely agree with these recommendations but let’s also not pretend that this “blacklist/whitelist” concept was designed for war as it is now. It’s not about path 9 to me, it’s more a criticism of how the current design interacts with this reminder of how AW used to be.

The blacklist was created in more open tactics to get summoners to use different tactic attackers and stop relying on HT, Ghost, Quake, Kingpin, etc. While the white list was specifically created to let people use their HTs, Ghosts, Kingpins, and Hercules like attackers on a rotating basis. Over time this pivoted to the best tactic attackers also making it into the ban pool and when a tactic would span 3 seasons the white list also mattered more as bans moved to banning the best tactic attackers. Now the white list is an utter joke every other season.

In previous metas the interactions were more flexible and summoners could flex their rosters to address the problems as there was often good champs outside of the tactic options that could address the challenges… but now in the Magic Thief and Crush metas the design essentially requires us to use the tactic attack pool to deal with tactic defenders, it’s already very restrictive and the black list restricts it more, now our top 5 options are removed most wars and we will be stuck ranking champs we probably don’t even enjoy… especially when you feel forced to use it in the highest stress game mode. It doesn’t feel innovative, it feels punitive.

Here’s hoping this is a one off though and the meta design isn’t as restrictive next time and this matters less in the right ways.
Your point about the purpose of the blacklist/whitelist having evolved is correct, but I don't agree that it's a bad thing.

It's less relevant in the first season, which is usually the learning period where people get to understand how the tactic works and who is good without having a blacklist that impacts the tactic pool, and the second season is tactic relevant bans after we as the players have gotten the opportunity to learn, rank up other options, and Kabam has tuned the tactic based on data and feedback from the first season.

Maybe Kabam needs to consider removing the blacklist/whitelist systems for tier 2 and below, or at the very least making more changes between tier 1 and below for how it functions, but the way it works for modern war at the top makes sense to me.

I just can’t get my head around the position that the irrelevant black list and white list being acceptable at any tier is a good thing because we should be expected to learn and account for inadequately tuned tactics in the first season of a new tactic and that it’s only fair our rosters are greater limited for having a slightly more reasonable version of the tactic in the 2nd season.

Moghazy

You can use KP with Hood synergy for Hazard shift. Non tactic attackers can still remove indestructible with well timed block.. only issue could be the one eye open node so get a tactic attacker for that particular node

cur53d

Makes zero sense to blacklist an attacker from the meta they were designed to be a part of. Just another really poor decision for an already troubled AW meta.

captain_rogers

What does blacklist and whitelist means? It means those champs are banned for attack phase? Also why we Still have the same attack and defense tactic? I thought tactics are supposed to change each season?

Bendy

What does blacklist and whitelist means? It means those champs are banned for attack phase? Also why we Still have the same attack and defense tactic? I thought tactics are supposed to change each season?

Blacklist banned entire season whitelist cant be banned all season, each season tactic is 2 months before next so one more xmagica till a new set

captain_rogers

What does blacklist and whitelist means? It means those champs are banned for attack phase? Also why we Still have the same attack and defense tactic? I thought tactics are supposed to change each season?
Blacklist banned entire season whitelist cant be banned all season, each season tactic is 2 months before next so one more xmagica till a new set

I thought banning champs is decided by alliances and not kabam team. I thought Kabam team can only decide bout ban immunities.

Also it doesn't make sense, They are banning tactic attackers, understandable, to make the war difficult. But why are whitelisting non tactic attackers? It's not like they are particularly good against some defenders or something. What am I missing here?

Bendy

What does blacklist and whitelist means? It means those champs are banned for attack phase? Also why we Still have the same attack and defense tactic? I thought tactics are supposed to change each season?
Blacklist banned entire season whitelist cant be banned all season, each season tactic is 2 months before next so one more xmagica till a new set
I thought banning champs is decided by alliances and not kabam team. I thought Kabam team can only decide bout ban immunities.

Also it doesn't make sense, They are banning tactic attackers, understandable, to make the war difficult. But why are whitelisting non tactic attackers? It's not like they are particularly good against some defenders or something. What am I missing here?

U can do 3 bans still plus what ever season ban is so 4 bans

Bendy

What does blacklist and whitelist means? It means those champs are banned for attack phase? Also why we Still have the same attack and defense tactic? I thought tactics are supposed to change each season?
Blacklist banned entire season whitelist cant be banned all season, each season tactic is 2 months before next so one more xmagica till a new set
I thought banning champs is decided by alliances and not kabam team. I thought Kabam team can only decide bout ban immunities.

Also it doesn't make sense, They are banning tactic attackers, understandable, to make the war difficult. But why are whitelisting non tactic attackers? It's not like they are particularly good against some defenders or something. What am I missing here?

Banning tactic as it stands is tough one when u gotta think about tactic attackers that u cant just nuke or if those that dont like to nuke (me i hate everything to do with nuking i think its unhealthy for any game mode)

Vanitelia

It doesn't really make sense because by the time they get white-listed, the meta changes and they are no longer relevant. Instead of a whole season, would be cool to see mid season lists so that champs you pour resources into are actually accessible.

Matty_Ice

You can use KP with Hood synergy for Hazard shift. Non tactic attackers can still remove indestructible with well timed block.. only issue could be the one eye open node so get a tactic attacker for that particular node

Certain matchups require you to use non tactic against tactic because a tactic champ doesn’t counter the fight well. But you want to do as little of those as you can.

In this tactic fights can get out of hand very very quickly and digging back out of that hole with a non tactic is a big ask. And there are some very annoying tactic champs. No way I’m sending a KP to fight a KM, bullseye, serpent, Adam, or Nick fury in this meta. 1 mistake or uncooperative AI can lead to death(s) very fast.

Matty_Ice

Makes zero sense to blacklist an attacker from the meta they were designed to be a part of. Just another really poor decision for an already troubled AW meta.

Ultimately, I think this is what I’m most upset about, not just that iceman is banned. We have sagas, which are designed to be using champs in this pool for war and other areas of the contest. Kabam encourages ranking champs by giving us specific items for these saga champs, and then they are making it more difficult by banning more tactic champs in war. Opponents are going to ban 3, so why blacklist more?