I'd say he's still a banger of BG defender as r5 Ascended (Don't take him there, he will soon be 7*)
His specials are very hard to dex fully and one mistiming to dex sp2 orbs can result in KO. Even taking special hits on block takes away lots of health and Apoc is very tanky on top of it.
Maybe Ironman with lots of Armor and redskull can safely take his sp2 hits on block.
Still has his bg defense use at times but his attack value has gone way down since a lot of mutants can start good without synergy and deal way more damage, maybe 7* could fix the problem but I’d love to see him get a way to start with 4 prowess without the synergy
There's more to the game than Battlegrounds and I think it's a little unfortunate that so many judgements regarding a champion's worth is based on their viability in BG instead of all aspects of the game. I'm not casting any stones since I'm as guilty of this as anyone else (basically all of my rank-ups are based on my BG needs), but it's unfortunate nonetheless.
I wish Kabam could balance the game somewhat so that this isn't the case, but I'm not sure what the solution would be. It's not like they can crank out new Necropolises on a quarterly basis.
Someone did video (I forgot who) doing same rank onslaught versus apoc against RoL winter solder. Onslaught beat him by a minute and a half, plus he has better damage and utility.
That may well be true. However, it's a game with lots of champions, and you won't have all of them.
Onslaught is a better champion, sure.
But if you have Apocalypse as a 6* and your only Onslaught is the free 3* you got, which one is more relevant to you?
There's more to the game than Battlegrounds and I think it's a little unfortunate that so many judgements regarding a champion's worth is based on their viability in BG instead of all aspects of the game. I'm not casting any stones since I'm as guilty of this as anyone else (basically all of my rank-ups are based on my BG needs), but it's unfortunate nonetheless.
I wish Kabam could balance the game somewhat so that this isn't the case, but I'm not sure what the solution would be. It's not like they can crank out new Necropolises on a quarterly basis.
This is where story content, back issues. etc., going the way of the dodo bird hurts - lots of champs aren’t built for BG’s. Numerous aren’t built for Necropolis. But they are a ton of fun with synergies in questing situations. Problem is, those are basically MIA. Story has reduced paths and comes out sparingly. Side quest is just boring - any champ can work if of the right class.
But content creators want Everest and BG’s - so here we are.
Someone did video (I forgot who) doing same rank onslaught versus apoc against RoL winter solder. Onslaught beat him by a minute and a half, plus he has better damage and utility.
That may well be true. However, it's a game with lots of champions, and you won't have all of them.
Onslaught is a better champion, sure.
But if you have Apocalypse as a 6* and your only Onslaught is the free 3* you got, which one is more relevant to you?
Way to compare apples to oranges. No kidding you're gonna use a 6* over a 3*... Jesus......
Interesting timing. Nagase put out a roughly 45 minute video just on this topic today. Cliff notes: not totally trash not not even mid anymore. There are probably zero people who finish in the top 500 of bg who have him in their deck.
Luckily BG's is not the only game mode. Nagase is short sighted.
He's not used in t1 war either unless he is a tactic defender. Did you use him in necrosis necropolis or woe? You can use virtually any champ in any solo mode. Not to mention I believe he made the finals of the in person kabaam bg tournament, if not, the semi's. I'm not positive about many things in life but nagase not being short sighted about anything to do with a game he is top 10 overall at, is one of them.
He was used a lot in t1 wars last season tho. For the sole purpose of his horseman synergy on a mutant champ so that they could counter bullseye... but he was used! Lol
He’s still useful for path 7. And at the worst for horseman. I played tier 1 for 5-7 seasons and he was my path 7 homie. Throw the cable synergy on him and it was cake. Still very useable
Not sure why Apoc is judged for how good he is on BG. I still love Apoc for questing, great immunities and great damage on specials. Love his design too.
Cause BGs is the most relevant game mode by far.
Lol no way🤣🤣🤣
Have you watched any mcoc streams at all? What were they about? Have you watched any tier lists at all? What's the first thing they usually take into account? Whether you like BGs or not, it is the most relevant game mode that's why there's so much BGs content. I'm sure if Kabam posted the actual statistics BGs would be above AW and AQ.
Bgs is dying fast so expect to see him being used a lot more when we shift back to mostly PvE content like the good old days
I love when people make these completely unfounded claims because they don’t like battlegrounds
Reading comments saying BGs aren't the most relevant game mode or that they're dying is hilarious cause if that really was the case I wouldn't still be finding matches in 20 secs in Arcane. Not only does this mean a lot of people are playing BGs it means a lot of them are grinding pretty hard too. Matchmaking is even quicker in VT, I don't get where all these claims come from when they're obviously not true lol.
Don't need to state why. @KDSuperFlash10 predicted future correctly, his thread was few years too early. Apoc is a dud everywhere in today's standards.
Now a days I see trend that implies that if a champ is not fast as attacker in BG, he/she is not good champ or fallen from the top Apart from Bgs, we have AW,Aw, Sq, endgame contents etc. Smh what days have come
Eaxctly. People are so strictly battlegrounds, that they dismiss other content, and others who like to play that content. It's really pathetic.
It’s the most important gamemode now, everyone’s rankups are for Battlegrounds.
It's the most important for some, not everyone. There are a lot of casual BG players. People still play and rank their champs for other content. We did Winter of Woe. We just finished Act 8. Act 9 will be here later this year. We did Necropolis where a lot of players were scrambling to pull and rank the most valuable champion for that content.....Aegon. He's not needed in BGs, but is the GOAT in others. And there's still AW. Players rank champs for that too.
He’s not great for WoW, there are better champs to use in act 8, better champs to use in battlegrounds, and better champs to use in war unless you want his horseman synergy. He’s still good for questing I guess, but he hasn’t been super relevant in any high tier stuff even if we’re ignoring battlegrounds
I didn't say he was great for WOW or Act 8. But I think some did use him in Act 8 with Storm since his main assest is his synergy with mutants. He was also used in Necropolis by some Storm and Gambit users, because of his synergy.
But if some did use him in other content, then who are we to say there are better champs? Players have their reasons for using the champs they choose, and we need to be ok with that.
Plenty of relevance for apoc, as someone with a 6* r5 ascended version. Still a total beast, and if you don’t actually want to use him, horseman for other mutants is still a great option.
Not sure why Apoc is judged for how good he is on BG. I still love Apoc for questing, great immunities and great damage on specials. Love his design too.
Cause BGs is the most relevant game mode by far.
Lol no way🤣🤣🤣
Have you watched any mcoc streams at all? What were they about? Have you watched any tier lists at all? What's the first thing they usually take into account? Whether you like BGs or not, it is the most relevant game mode that's why there's so much BGs content. I'm sure if Kabam posted the actual statistics BGs would be above AW and AQ.
BG is not most relevant content or most played by majority. Youtubers and Forums is not representation of all player base. You should check Reddit, line groups ans Discord. There is story mode, Aw, AQ, Eq, Sq, Necro, EOP etc etc etc. Every champ is not meant for doing a fight in 20 seconds. Bg Meta changes every season so do the attacker so doesn't mean a champ is dud if he/she/it not fast attacker in BG. By that mean Polka Dot season, Herc is dud, CGR is dud, Doom is dud?? OR safe guard meta ??? I don't play Bg at all. Tier list is not absolute truth. Each player have thier own mindset regarding usage of champs. I don't see Chavez beging 1st choice in story content or Eq when other choice is Doom. Most will naturally go with Doom when such content comes. I can finish BG fights in 20 seconds with BWDO but will that mean she is better than Kate or Stealthy or Aegon or Shang chi?? Bg is time gated fights. So naturally one will choose either fast attacker or time eating defender. Ans this poll is all about how Apocalypse is relevant or not in 2024. That doesn't mean if he is not fast attacker in BG doesn't mean he have fallen. Against many mutants, shruggers and similar match ups Apoc shines better than many considering his safety net abilities. BG ≠ Mcoc Mcoc= Story,Eq,AQ,Aw,BGs,Arean etc etc etc
Not sure why Apoc is judged for how good he is on BG. I still love Apoc for questing, great immunities and great damage on specials. Love his design too.
Cause BGs is the most relevant game mode by far.
Lol no way🤣🤣🤣
Have you watched any mcoc streams at all? What were they about? Have you watched any tier lists at all? What's the first thing they usually take into account? Whether you like BGs or not, it is the most relevant game mode that's why there's so much BGs content. I'm sure if Kabam posted the actual statistics BGs would be above AW and AQ.
BG is not most relevant content or most played by majority. Youtubers and Forums is not representation of all player base. You should check Reddit, line groups ans Discord. There is story mode, Aw, AQ, Eq, Sq, Necro, EOP etc etc etc. Every champ is not meant for doing a fight in 20 seconds. Bg Meta changes every season so do the attacker so doesn't mean a champ is dud if he/she/it not fast attacker in BG. By that mean Polka Dot season, Herc is dud, CGR is dud, Doom is dud?? OR safe guard meta ??? I don't play Bg at all. Tier list is not absolute truth. Each player have thier own mindset regarding usage of champs. I don't see Chavez beging 1st choice in story content or Eq when other choice is Doom. Most will naturally go with Doom when such content comes. I can finish BG fights in 20 seconds with BWDO but will that mean she is better than Kate or Stealthy or Aegon or Shang chi?? Bg is time gated fights. So naturally one will choose either fast attacker or time eating defender. Ans this poll is all about how Apocalypse is relevant or not in 2024. That doesn't mean if he is not fast attacker in BG doesn't mean he have fallen. Against many mutants, shruggers and similar match ups Apoc shines better than many considering his safety net abilities. BG ≠ Mcoc Mcoc= Story,Eq,AQ,Aw,BGs,Arean etc etc etc
Right, but just because you don't play BGs doesn't mean it isn't the most relevant game mode. I never said people don't play other game modes, just that BGs is the most relevant game mode of all. Of course some people like you don't play them and don't enjoy them but that's not gonna change the fact that the vast majority does. Like I said, go watch streams and tier lists, they're all about BGs 90% of the time and there's obviously a reason for that. As for Apocalypse, he has fallen off. You don't see anyone even talking about him anymore, people use him in story mode and AW sure but he isn't as relevant as he used to be.
I wouldn't consider Nagase's takes to be valid. Despite being one of the best mcoc players, his opinions are wild, narrow minded or just rage inducing. He's critical of champs like Apoc for falling off in BGs but praises Nova who's only really usable in BGs (trust me no one wants to play nova in high healthpool content, it's a real task). His takes on champs are extremely restrictive and stems from their usability in BGs. If a champ does well in BGs and other forms of content - good champ. If a champ does well in BGs and nowhere else - good champ. A champ that does well in other parts of the game except BGs - meh champ.
Apoc is still one of the top mutants in the game. Definitely not the best, but discrediting how much he brings to the table with his damage, utility, sustainability and synergies is crazy. He is definitely an insanely strong champion that'll save you revives and help you clear a ton of content in the game
Not sure why Apoc is judged for how good he is on BG. I still love Apoc for questing, great immunities and great damage on specials. Love his design too.
Cause BGs is the most relevant game mode by far.
Lol no way🤣🤣🤣
Have you watched any mcoc streams at all? What were they about? Have you watched any tier lists at all? What's the first thing they usually take into account? Whether you like BGs or not, it is the most relevant game mode that's why there's so much BGs content. I'm sure if Kabam posted the actual statistics BGs would be above AW and AQ.
BG is not most relevant content or most played by majority. Youtubers and Forums is not representation of all player base. You should check Reddit, line groups ans Discord. There is story mode, Aw, AQ, Eq, Sq, Necro, EOP etc etc etc. Every champ is not meant for doing a fight in 20 seconds. Bg Meta changes every season so do the attacker so doesn't mean a champ is dud if he/she/it not fast attacker in BG. By that mean Polka Dot season, Herc is dud, CGR is dud, Doom is dud?? OR safe guard meta ??? I don't play Bg at all. Tier list is not absolute truth. Each player have thier own mindset regarding usage of champs. I don't see Chavez beging 1st choice in story content or Eq when other choice is Doom. Most will naturally go with Doom when such content comes. I can finish BG fights in 20 seconds with BWDO but will that mean she is better than Kate or Stealthy or Aegon or Shang chi?? Bg is time gated fights. So naturally one will choose either fast attacker or time eating defender. Ans this poll is all about how Apocalypse is relevant or not in 2024. That doesn't mean if he is not fast attacker in BG doesn't mean he have fallen. Against many mutants, shruggers and similar match ups Apoc shines better than many considering his safety net abilities. BG ≠ Mcoc Mcoc= Story,Eq,AQ,Aw,BGs,Arean etc etc etc
Right, but just because you don't play BGs doesn't mean it isn't the most relevant game mode. I never said people don't play other game modes, just that BGs is the most relevant game mode of all. Of course some people like you don't play them and don't enjoy them but that's not gonna change the fact that the vast majority does. Like I said, go watch streams and tier lists, they're all about BGs 90% of the time and there's obviously a reason for that. As for Apocalypse, he has fallen off. You don't see anyone even talking about him anymore, people use him in story mode and AW sure but he isn't as relevant as he used to be.
You missed the entire point Tier list made by youtubers or any person reflect their personal choice first of all. It's not a offical list from Kabam. One may put BWDO on 1st in their tier list doesn't mean she is better tha rest of skill class in entirety of MCOC. BG is continuously played mode but that doesn't makes it most relevant game mode. Do you even know what Most Relevance mode means. Just choose between permanently removing BGS or Story content, you will egt your answer. I am not saying that Story content is most relevant. It always keep changing. So BG doesn't equate to MCOC.
People even don't talk much of Herc, Doom, Mags, HT. Yes you read correct. See last few threads of this month. See YouTube. It's always about the new champs and their hype for future use. But does that make them irrelevant???
Your Entire point is all about following things 1: BG attack 2: YouTube tier list
So does that mean Act 7, Act 8, Eqs,Sqs, Back issues, EOP, Necro, AQ, Aw, and other content which come time to time don't hold value in game??? So if champ is not good enough in BG attack for a season or 2 or 3 or maybe not good at all finishing fights in 20-30 seconds is useless and have fallen off on Entire Mcoc??? They don't have use at all??
Ronan can cheese 2 annoying fights in WOW in most safest mode. But that doesn't mean he is OP in AW, AQ, Story content, Eq ??? Does he suddenly rise to tier list?? Same goes for BG. One's rise in one mode doesn't that champ is best and vice versa. Every aspect of game is taken in course when such thing arises. I can't just say that I cheesed New BG meta in VCT by using my r4 Ebony Maw ( try him you will be surprised) now he have risen in ranks. Will you actually consider it??? Heck, will you actually have thought of ranking him for Attack purpose???
TDLR BG≠mcoc Champ Relevance= In every aspect of game
I wouldn't consider Nagase's takes to be valid. Despite being one of the best mcoc players, his opinions are wild, narrow minded or just rage inducing. He's critical of champs like Apoc for falling off in BGs but praises Nova who's only really usable in BGs (trust me no one wants to play nova in high healthpool content, it's a real task). His takes on champs are extremely restrictive and stems from their usability in BGs. If a champ does well in BGs and other forms of content - good champ. If a champ does well in BGs and nowhere else - good champ. A champ that does well in other parts of the game except BGs - meh champ.
Apoc is still one of the top mutants in the game. Definitely not the best, but discrediting how much he brings to the table with his damage, utility, sustainability and synergies is crazy. He is definitely an insanely strong champion that'll save you revives and help you clear a ton of content in the game
Nova is still valuable in story as well, he’s just not the fastest for those HPs
I wouldn't consider Nagase's takes to be valid. Despite being one of the best mcoc players, his opinions are wild, narrow minded or just rage inducing. He's critical of champs like Apoc for falling off in BGs but praises Nova who's only really usable in BGs (trust me no one wants to play nova in high healthpool content, it's a real task). His takes on champs are extremely restrictive and stems from their usability in BGs. If a champ does well in BGs and other forms of content - good champ. If a champ does well in BGs and nowhere else - good champ. A champ that does well in other parts of the game except BGs - meh champ.
Apoc is still one of the top mutants in the game. Definitely not the best, but discrediting how much he brings to the table with his damage, utility, sustainability and synergies is crazy. He is definitely an insanely strong champion that'll save you revives and help you clear a ton of content in the game
Nova is still valuable in story as well, he’s just not the fastest for those HPs
I wouldn't consider Nagase's takes to be valid. Despite being one of the best mcoc players, his opinions are wild, narrow minded or just rage inducing. He's critical of champs like Apoc for falling off in BGs but praises Nova who's only really usable in BGs (trust me no one wants to play nova in high healthpool content, it's a real task). His takes on champs are extremely restrictive and stems from their usability in BGs. If a champ does well in BGs and other forms of content - good champ. If a champ does well in BGs and nowhere else - good champ. A champ that does well in other parts of the game except BGs - meh champ.
Apoc is still one of the top mutants in the game. Definitely not the best, but discrediting how much he brings to the table with his damage, utility, sustainability and synergies is crazy. He is definitely an insanely strong champion that'll save you revives and help you clear a ton of content in the game
Nova is still valuable in story as well, he’s just not the fastest for those HPs
valuable how?
Non contact hits, decent damage output (though not the fastest), true strike, unblockable, etc. If he was a 7 star then he would be more used.
I wouldn't consider Nagase's takes to be valid. Despite being one of the best mcoc players, his opinions are wild, narrow minded or just rage inducing. He's critical of champs like Apoc for falling off in BGs but praises Nova who's only really usable in BGs (trust me no one wants to play nova in high healthpool content, it's a real task). His takes on champs are extremely restrictive and stems from their usability in BGs. If a champ does well in BGs and other forms of content - good champ. If a champ does well in BGs and nowhere else - good champ. A champ that does well in other parts of the game except BGs - meh champ.
Apoc is still one of the top mutants in the game. Definitely not the best, but discrediting how much he brings to the table with his damage, utility, sustainability and synergies is crazy. He is definitely an insanely strong champion that'll save you revives and help you clear a ton of content in the game
Nova is still valuable in story as well, he’s just not the fastest for those HPs
I wouldn't consider Nagase's takes to be valid. Despite being one of the best mcoc players, his opinions are wild, narrow minded or just rage inducing. He's critical of champs like Apoc for falling off in BGs but praises Nova who's only really usable in BGs (trust me no one wants to play nova in high healthpool content, it's a real task). His takes on champs are extremely restrictive and stems from their usability in BGs. If a champ does well in BGs and other forms of content - good champ. If a champ does well in BGs and nowhere else - good champ. A champ that does well in other parts of the game except BGs - meh champ.
Apoc is still one of the top mutants in the game. Definitely not the best, but discrediting how much he brings to the table with his damage, utility, sustainability and synergies is crazy. He is definitely an insanely strong champion that'll save you revives and help you clear a ton of content in the game
Nova is still valuable in story as well, he’s just not the fastest for those HPs
valuable how?
Non contact hits, decent damage output (though not the fastest), true strike, unblockable, etc. If he was a 7 star then he would be more used.
Those are valuable pieces of utility but they don't make nova valuable in story content. His damage is good enough in BGs for him to shine there but the moment we get to story content or high healthpool content, his relevance falls off. There are so many champs that can do what he can but faster and his value in non BGs content is in the eyes of the beholder at that point lol
Apoc fell off ngl, and the reason endgame players say that isn't solely because of battlegrounds. Saying he is a good quest champion hardly means anything nowadays, when most endgame players hardly need to do quests, plus plenty of Champs already does what he does but faster. His kit is super wonky as his evade bypass mechanic is weird and hardly reliable, his immunities require you to take damage from the debuffs first instead of simply being immune from the start, and his damage is SO subpar without synergies.
Comments
I wish Kabam could balance the game somewhat so that this isn't the case, but I'm not sure what the solution would be. It's not like they can crank out new Necropolises on a quarterly basis.
Onslaught is a better champion, sure.
But if you have Apocalypse as a 6* and your only Onslaught is the free 3* you got, which one is more relevant to you?
But content creators want Everest and BG’s - so here we are.
No kidding you're gonna use a 6* over a 3*... Jesus......
What a useless argument that is.
Have you watched any tier lists at all? What's the first thing they usually take into account?
Whether you like BGs or not, it is the most relevant game mode that's why there's so much BGs content. I'm sure if Kabam posted the actual statistics BGs would be above AW and AQ.
Matchmaking is even quicker in VT, I don't get where all these claims come from when they're obviously not true lol.
@KDSuperFlash10 predicted future correctly, his thread was few years too early.
Apoc is a dud everywhere in today's standards.
But if some did use him in other content, then who are we to say there are better champs? Players have their reasons for using the champs they choose, and we need to be ok with that.
Although, Ægon is unique — he’s the champ for long form content by far.
You should check Reddit, line groups ans Discord. There is story mode, Aw, AQ, Eq, Sq, Necro, EOP etc etc etc. Every champ is not meant for doing a fight in 20 seconds. Bg Meta changes every season so do the attacker so doesn't mean a champ is dud if he/she/it not fast attacker in BG. By that mean Polka Dot season, Herc is dud, CGR is dud, Doom is dud?? OR safe guard meta ???
I don't play Bg at all. Tier list is not absolute truth. Each player have thier own mindset regarding usage of champs. I don't see Chavez beging 1st choice in story content or Eq when other choice is Doom. Most will naturally go with Doom when such content comes. I can finish BG fights in 20 seconds with BWDO but will that mean she is better than Kate or Stealthy or Aegon or Shang chi??
Bg is time gated fights. So naturally one will choose either fast attacker or time eating defender.
Ans this poll is all about how Apocalypse is relevant or not in 2024. That doesn't mean if he is not fast attacker in BG doesn't mean he have fallen. Against many mutants, shruggers and similar match ups Apoc shines better than many considering his safety net abilities.
BG ≠ Mcoc
Mcoc= Story,Eq,AQ,Aw,BGs,Arean etc etc etc
Like I said, go watch streams and tier lists, they're all about BGs 90% of the time and there's obviously a reason for that.
As for Apocalypse, he has fallen off. You don't see anyone even talking about him anymore, people use him in story mode and AW sure but he isn't as relevant as he used to be.
Apoc is still one of the top mutants in the game. Definitely not the best, but discrediting how much he brings to the table with his damage, utility, sustainability and synergies is crazy. He is definitely an insanely strong champion that'll save you revives and help you clear a ton of content in the game
Tier list made by youtubers or any person reflect their personal choice first of all. It's not a offical list from Kabam. One may put BWDO on 1st in their tier list doesn't mean she is better tha rest of skill class in entirety of MCOC. BG is continuously played mode but that doesn't makes it most relevant game mode. Do you even know what Most Relevance mode means.
Just choose between permanently removing BGS or Story content, you will egt your answer. I am not saying that Story content is most relevant. It always keep changing. So BG doesn't equate to MCOC.
People even don't talk much of Herc, Doom, Mags, HT. Yes you read correct. See last few threads of this month. See YouTube. It's always about the new champs and their hype for future use. But does that make them irrelevant???
Your Entire point is all about following things
1: BG attack
2: YouTube tier list
So does that mean Act 7, Act 8, Eqs,Sqs, Back issues, EOP, Necro, AQ, Aw, and other content which come time to time don't hold value in game??? So if champ is not good enough in BG attack for a season or 2 or 3 or maybe not good at all finishing fights in 20-30 seconds is useless and have fallen off on Entire Mcoc??? They don't have use at all??
Ronan can cheese 2 annoying fights in WOW in most safest mode. But that doesn't mean he is OP in AW, AQ, Story content, Eq ??? Does he suddenly rise to tier list?? Same goes for BG. One's rise in one mode doesn't that champ is best and vice versa. Every aspect of game is taken in course when such thing arises. I can't just say that I cheesed New BG meta in VCT by using my r4 Ebony Maw ( try him you will be surprised) now he have risen in ranks. Will you actually consider it??? Heck, will you actually have thought of ranking him for Attack purpose???
TDLR
BG≠mcoc
Champ Relevance= In every aspect of game