Has the 40% AW Team Revive turned low-mid tier AW into a joke...!?

I've been chilling in a mid-tier AW alliance for nearly a year now, while enjoying more time in BGs. Over this period I've noticed we're losing wars due to not exploring the map, (or now due to low diversity too). But we're winning the fights by a margin of 100-200+ deaths...!

It feels like there is absolutely no skill or personal planning required in AW anymore due to the 40% team revives... If you explore more than the other team you win...!

It's a shame, because AW has always been about skill and planning and teamwork, whatever the level you're at.

Of course, I'm in a chilled AW alliance, I'm not bothered about the wins or the losses, it's casual war. But at the same time I look at our opponents dieing 20,30, 40 times on 1 fight and wonder what enjoyment, satisfaction or learning experience they're getting out of this.

Is this what AW has become now? Shame...!

Imo, the 40% team revive should still count towards your 15 item use total. There has to be some jeopardy involved in taking a fight with the wrong counter etc, otherwise you're not learning or gaining anything from playing the mode, just auto-fighting through it.

Anyone else feel the same way?

Comments

winterthur

It's a shame, because AW has always been about skill and planning and teamwork, whatever the level you're at.

and I thought it was roster strength, place a R3 and block lower tier roster from progressing. Skill?

SammyDe

If they have that level of commitment to explore more than your alliance despite the volume of deaths, I think they deserve to win. No one likes getting KO but with all these recent crazy meta champs that are design to be a painful defenders, getting KO will be more common.
I put Gorr, Maw, Abs Man, Weapon X and Nick in AW defence. If they are good enough to beat them then hats off to them.
I just pulled Onslaught, so I think Nick might have to make way for him… lol

PT_99

And there's a reason why chill low war exists? To just chill?
If you want to analyse every fight, satisfaction, learn and to feel WAR then try to get in platinum tier, why do you want to ruin chill tiers lol

winterthur

Infamous Iron Man also a pain. 🙃

laserjohn26

>mid tier

I found your problem

M0NKEYNUTS

In a retirement ally. i spam those revives. all i want from aw is the participation loyalty.

C19h28o2

The reason you are losing now is the change to diversity. If you don't have perfect diversity or if you don't explore the map you will find it near impossible to win. Though, if you can't be bothered to clear the map I can't imagine why you would expect to win in the first place.

DNA3000

Imo, the 40% team revive should still count towards your 15 item use total. There has to be some jeopardy involved in taking a fight with the wrong counter etc, otherwise you're not learning or gaining anything from playing the mode, just auto-fighting through it.

Anyone else feel the same way?

The logic behind the revive not counting towards item count is that the intent is to make sure players never get roadblocked. Yes, it means you can get wars where one side dies a billion times trying to explore the map, but the alternate is not that your opponent will simply fail to explore the map. More likely, players consistently getting roadblocked would just quit alliance war.

At the tiers where those revives are being used a lot, its more about keeping the mode alive with participation than about hard core competition anyway, and I don't think they distort the tiers much.

Cat_Murdock

40% free revives are the greatest thing to have happened to the mode

iSoPoP

Ok, thanks for everyone's comments. Interesting to hear what others think. I still don't understand why anyone would want to play a mode only to die a hundred times trying, but each to their own I suppose...!

DNA3000

Ok, thanks for everyone's comments. Interesting to hear what others think. I still don't understand why anyone would want to play a mode only to die a hundred times trying, but each to their own I suppose...!

It is not ideal, but there are a lot more people who are willing to participate in a mode where they do not have to spend a ton of units because they happen to be not as good as the rest of their alliance. Without those revives, the choices are:

1. Quit your alliance.
2. Die, stop playing, and let your path go unexplored while the rest of your alliance continues fighting.
3. Spend as much as necessary to complete your path and not let your alliance down by appearing to just give up.

The 40% revives create a fourth option:

4. Do your best, and if you get stuck behind a fight revive as often as necessary to get past that fight, since only the first three deaths will count against you anyway and you can still participate without looking like you just checked out. And from the perspective of an alliance leader, nothing is worse than when a player decides to just check out of a path because they decide it isn't worth the units to revive and continue. Once you allow someone to do that, no one else is going to want to try hard either. Either everyone pushes, or no one does.

With the revives, an alliance leader can simply ask their members to complete their paths, and if they die, its okay, just do their best.

Hulk808

There’s always that one guy…smh

Dab_west

bro is in like low tier aw and expecting people to try

iSoPoP

You're missing the point, I agree that the 40% revive was a very generous offer by kabam to help struggling players in AW not get road-blocked. But it's now being so over relied upon that it has turned the mode into a joke imo.

There's a difference between dieing a few times because you're not used to the node, it's a tough new defender or you've brought the wrong counter. But dieing 20,30,40 times because you can, just belittles the mode and basically tells everyone you don't need to try in AW anymore, because you can just revive your way through it now for free...!

It's basically the same as revive farming your way through Abyss or Necropolis. Kabam put a stop to that because it was ruining the experience and was getting out of control.

I wasn't suggesting getting rid of the 40% revive altogether, just limiting it so that there is some sort of jeopardy to taking on a fight in AW and players actually learn from their mistakes rather that just auto-reviving through it.

Vegeta9001

Ain't no way I'm spending units or loyalty in a mode that is currently sucking the fun out of Mcoc. Personally I still only die maybe once or twice per war, but it's nice playing in an alliance that strictly only uses 40% revives so I don't have to heal with resources in a mode that I hate.

iSoPoP

Ain't no way I'm spending units or loyalty in a mode that is currently sucking the fun out of Mcoc. Personally I still only die maybe once or twice per war, but it's nice playing in an alliance that strictly only uses 40% revives so I don't have to heal with resources in a mode that I hate.

Which is exactly why I said "I wasn't suggesting getting rid of them altogether..."

xLunatiXx

If you want to take the mode seriously, just move up tiers. Can't complain that low tier wars are relaxed

Gamer

Ain't no way I'm spending units or loyalty in a mode that is currently sucking the fun out of Mcoc. Personally I still only die maybe once or twice per war, but it's nice playing in an alliance that strictly only uses 40% revives so I don't have to heal with resources in a mode that I hate.
Which is exactly why I said "I wasn't suggesting getting rid of them altogether..."

You kind is limited is kind killings it. I don’t do war because i don’t find it enjoyable so i like i have a way in review. Thought and stil finishes to get loyalty to get another 7 star cystal u might not enjoy that’s be realistic if you enjoy war that’s much then u can limte them for you self. I not one to judge u.

iSoPoP

If you want to take the mode seriously, just move up tiers. Can't complain that low tier wars are relaxed

I don't want to take AW seriously, that's why I said in my original post I moved to a chilled alliance. But the free 40% revive has turned AW into a joke imo. I'm just saying I'd like to see a middle ground, where casual players can still enjoy the mode, but not to the extent of unlimited free revives that degrade the whole experience...

Finalfuryk

It just shifted the priority. Clearing your lane is more important than getting every attack bonus. Its just that simple.

Gamer

If you want to take the mode seriously, just move up tiers. Can't complain that low tier wars are relaxed
I don't want to take AW seriously, that's why I said in my original post I moved to a chilled alliance. But the free 40% revive has turned AW into a joke imo. I'm just saying I'd like to see a middle ground, where casual players can still enjoy the mode, but not to the extent of unlimited free revives that degrade the whole experience...

U already confirmed my suspicions u like to hav a harder time then u hav to do harder war. To get what u definitely need

M0NKEYNUTS

AW is a joke due to unlimited revives, and BG is super hard after plat due to matchmaking.

OP if you are looking for middle ground experience, I would recommend 50% time playing AW and 50% time playing plat+ BG. Should average out nicely.

laserjohn26

If you want to take the mode seriously, just move up tiers. Can't complain that low tier wars are relaxed
I don't want to take AW seriously, that's why I said in my original post I moved to a chilled alliance. But the free 40% revive has turned AW into a joke imo. I'm just saying I'd like to see a middle ground, where casual players can still enjoy the mode, but not to the extent of unlimited free revives that degrade the whole experience...

That's great! There is a simple solution. High tier war, masters and t1 you'll rarely see anyone using more than 1 revive per defender. Competitive war, t2 and high t3 you might see a few defenders get over 3 kills, but after 3 kills nobody cares and 3 kills or 300 it doesn't matter. T4 and below nobody really cares. So you don't want people to use dozens of 1 loyalty revives simply play more competitive war.

What you are doing is saying you want to play casual war... but not that casual. Luckily the system is already built to solve this problem. Don't like it, move up a tier. Still too casual? Keep moving up until you find the perfect fit.

Right now you are saying "I want to give this exact effort. Everyone else I play must give the same. If they don't, kabaam must force them to."

iSoPoP

Right now you are saying "I want to give this exact effort. Everyone else I play must give the same. If they don't, kabaam must force them to."

No, right now I'm saying unlimited 40% revives has turned AW into a joke no matter what tier you're in and especially in low-mid tier.

I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything, but by adding the unlimited 40% revives, kabam has degraded the mode into a free for all non-contest imo. Tbh, they may as well just say at the start of each war, whichever team has more active players wins, regardless of the fight results and just give the win there and then. The actual fight results are meaningless...!

iSoPoP

AW is a joke due to unlimited revives, and BG is super hard after plat due to matchmaking.

OP if you are looking for middle ground experience, I would recommend 50% time playing AW and 50% time playing plat+ BG. Should average out nicely.

No I'm not looking for middle ground, I would prefer war to be exciting, tactical, a learning curve for everyone, no matter what level your at. Every other mode in game is based on this, but unfortunately imo, AW has changed for the worse due to the unlimited 40% revives.

BGs is still competitive no matter what level you play at, you play to your level and everyone has to try their best to win. If you choose the wrong counter or draft the wrong deck you lose.

Unfortunately Kabam have 'cotton wooled' AW to please the masses who can't be arsed to try to win, but complain when it's too hard...! I fear other modes may go the same way. Look what they did to Act6.

World Eater

War is a joke, yes but not for the reasons mentioned.

_Kurumi_

No, your idea is just bad. It was best decision from Kabam to make the 1 loyalty 40% revive and it does not count to Item limit

startropics

You're missing the point, I agree that the 40% revive was a very generous offer by kabam to help struggling players in AW not get road-blocked. But it's now being so over relied upon that it has turned the mode into a joke imo.

There's a difference between dieing a few times because you're not used to the node, it's a tough new defender or you've brought the wrong counter. But dieing 20,30,40 times because you can, just belittles the mode and basically tells everyone you don't need to try in AW anymore, because you can just revive your way through it now for free...!

It's basically the same as revive farming your way through Abyss or Necropolis. Kabam put a stop to that because it was ruining the experience and was getting out of control.

I wasn't suggesting getting rid of the 40% revive altogether, just limiting it so that there is some sort of jeopardy to taking on a fight in AW and players actually learn from their mistakes rather that just auto-reviving through it.

you can't forcefully extract AW commitment from players who die 20 times a node, so you give them unlimited chances so you can extract general alliance participation from them instead (battlegrounds, raids, AQ, spending on offers for prestige).

AW might be a joke for some players, but keeping them invested in alliances is much healthier for the game.

startropics

pick one...

1. for some players AW is a cheese-fest...

2. players get fed up and leave because of war or get booted, they have nowhere to go because many alliances do AW so they quit alliances altogether, which means they don't do AW, AQ, raids, and game-wide battlegrounds participation suffers.

1 is the better choice for players and kabam. 2 hurts alliance stability, game commitment, and kabama's profits.

DNA3000

You're missing the point, I agree that the 40% revive was a very generous offer by kabam to help struggling players in AW not get road-blocked. But it's now being so over relied upon that it has turned the mode into a joke imo.

There's a difference between dieing a few times because you're not used to the node, it's a tough new defender or you've brought the wrong counter. But dieing 20,30,40 times because you can, just belittles the mode and basically tells everyone you don't need to try in AW anymore, because you can just revive your way through it now for free...!

It's basically the same as revive farming your way through Abyss or Necropolis. Kabam put a stop to that because it was ruining the experience and was getting out of control.

I wasn't suggesting getting rid of the 40% revive altogether, just limiting it so that there is some sort of jeopardy to taking on a fight in AW and players actually learn from their mistakes rather that just auto-reviving through it.

I get your point. You are not getting my point. There's a reason they don't count towards the item count. That was an explicit, deliberate design feature specifically intended to ensure that its entire reason for existing was met, which is that players don't get roadblocked. If they counted towards the item limit, then one hard defender could roadblock a player and then exhaust their item count.

Yes, this can in some cases trivialize the fights. That is an acknowledged explicit compromise of that specific design feature. It is a cost the design deliberately pays to get the intended result. Not everyone agrees this is a good thing, but it is not an accident nor is it a problem to be solved, at least as originally intended. It is a deliberate feature.

I'm saying this as someone who has some authoritative insight into the original intent of the change.