**KNOWN AW ISSUE**
Please be aware, there is a known issue with Saga badging when observing the AW map.
The team have found the source of the issue and will be updating with our next build.
We apologize for the inconvenience.
**KNOWN BG ISSUE**
We are aware of an issue with the seeding for the beginning of the BG season.
We are adding rewards to higher progression brackets to offset the additional grind.
More information here.
**Arcade is being extra tricky with his Murder Box...**
It appears Arcade has been non-cooperative in his approach to this month's side quest and presented his clues in a nonsensical order. Lucky you, Summoners, we have our best and brightest on the case and those clues should now be a lot more straightforward. While messing around in Arcade's files we came across a phrase, highlighted and bolded, with sparkles and pointy arrows: "the abode for the dead" ... Maybe that will help you along the way!
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"You're Bad at Battlegrounds." Thoughts?

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Comments

  • Options
    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    edited May 26
    Wicket329 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
    How would you handle title advancement mid-season?

    How would you balance rewards? You would need for the best rewards for a Cavalier player to be worse than the worst rewards for a Thronebreaker. Otherwise you’re creating a system which incentivizes lagging behind and not progressing.

    There are so many issues with your proposed system. It is not perfect by any stretch of the word.
    Very simple my friend. Look at incursion, that’s how the reward different base on title should be or at least similar like that, advancement in mid-season? No problem, that player will start over again for the next title. I don’t see any problem with it. That’s how Kabam stimulate people to move up in progression
  • Options
    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    HungaryHippo said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Roster is a huge factor. It's why Bero cannot seem to win anymore. Everyone has the newest champs in their decks and he doesn't. You can outskill people to a degree but that has it's limits.
    That’s correct! That’s a very typical example! And someone is saying with good skills and knowledge a paragon can beat Valiant! I really don’t know do they understand what are they talking about!
  • Options
    BringPopcornBringPopcorn Posts: 3,330 ★★★★★
    Nightheart said:

    Boy this thread has escalated quickly. Anyone wants popcorn and fries? 🍟

    🙄
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,386 ★★★★★
    DarkNightRise said:

    Wicket329 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
    How would you handle title advancement mid-season?

    How would you balance rewards? You would need for the best rewards for a Cavalier player to be worse than the worst rewards for a Thronebreaker. Otherwise you’re creating a system which incentivizes lagging behind and not progressing.

    There are so many issues with your proposed system. It is not perfect by any stretch of the word.
    Very simple my friend. Look at incursion, that’s how the reward different base on title should be or at least similar like that, advancement in mid-season? No problem, that player will start over again for the next title. I don’t see any problem with it. That’s how Kabam stimulate people to move up in progression
    You think your "perfect system" would mean someones season progression is wipe if they move to the next title? And you think people won't complain? Lol
  • Options
    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    Demonzfyre said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    Wicket329 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
    How would you handle title advancement mid-season?

    How would you balance rewards? You would need for the best rewards for a Cavalier player to be worse than the worst rewards for a Thronebreaker. Otherwise you’re creating a system which incentivizes lagging behind and not progressing.

    There are so many issues with your proposed system. It is not perfect by any stretch of the word.
    Very simple my friend. Look at incursion, that’s how the reward different base on title should be or at least similar like that, advancement in mid-season? No problem, that player will start over again for the next title. I don’t see any problem with it. That’s how Kabam stimulate people to move up in progression
    You think your "perfect system" would mean someones season progression is wipe if they move to the next title? And you think people won't complain? Lol
    Who said wipe out their progression on the previous level before? They will claim to which certain milestones they already achieved before they move to the next Title. Any other questions?
  • Options
    Wicket329Wicket329 Posts: 3,174 ★★★★★
    DarkNightRise said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    Wicket329 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
    How would you handle title advancement mid-season?

    How would you balance rewards? You would need for the best rewards for a Cavalier player to be worse than the worst rewards for a Thronebreaker. Otherwise you’re creating a system which incentivizes lagging behind and not progressing.

    There are so many issues with your proposed system. It is not perfect by any stretch of the word.
    Very simple my friend. Look at incursion, that’s how the reward different base on title should be or at least similar like that, advancement in mid-season? No problem, that player will start over again for the next title. I don’t see any problem with it. That’s how Kabam stimulate people to move up in progression
    You think your "perfect system" would mean someones season progression is wipe if they move to the next title? And you think people won't complain? Lol
    Who said wipe out their progression on the previous level before? They will claim to which certain milestones they already achieved before they move to the next Title. Any other questions?
    So they get an extremely easy ride as the top of their class until they make the switch? How are you so confidently wrong on this?
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,386 ★★★★★
    DarkNightRise said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    Wicket329 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
    How would you handle title advancement mid-season?

    How would you balance rewards? You would need for the best rewards for a Cavalier player to be worse than the worst rewards for a Thronebreaker. Otherwise you’re creating a system which incentivizes lagging behind and not progressing.

    There are so many issues with your proposed system. It is not perfect by any stretch of the word.
    Very simple my friend. Look at incursion, that’s how the reward different base on title should be or at least similar like that, advancement in mid-season? No problem, that player will start over again for the next title. I don’t see any problem with it. That’s how Kabam stimulate people to move up in progression
    You think your "perfect system" would mean someones season progression is wipe if they move to the next title? And you think people won't complain? Lol
    Who said wipe out their progression on the previous level before? They will claim to which certain milestones they already achieved before they move to the next Title. Any other questions?
    You don't see the flaw in that as well? Let's say there's an really strong Cav player and they've worked their way to the top of the cavalier ladder. All that would have to do is become TB and then according to you, they'd be at the top of the TB ladder without have fought anyone in TB.

    Imagine people doing this at the end of the season to steal easy rewards.

    But yes... "Perfect system" no one will complain about.
  • Options
    Vegeta9001Vegeta9001 Posts: 1,481 ★★★★
    captain_rogers said:

    @Vegeta9001


    This is how every match will look if you don't have random matchmaking. RNG sucks, but picking from the entire deck of 30 even sucks more and usually benefits Whales the most.

    That's called a meta and it's fundamental in competitive gaming. I'd like to believe that's what the nodes are meant to be for, to try to sway a specific seasonal meta and rule out "good attackers" or "good defenders" for more niche ones. Like I said, in an ideal world they'd treat it as a competitive mode, with nodes allowing for more niche or unique picks, and allow actual drafting rather than the game essentially picking for you.

    But opinions are opinions I suppose, I'm just going off every other drafting game I've played. Whether it be card, league or otherwise.
  • Options
    GrO_ot78GrO_ot78 Posts: 619 ★★★
    This is a valiant deck, and probably only scares mediocre paragon and lower. Faced with whales, I have little or no chance. But, I'm mostly satisfied. I’m missing Serpent, and my ascended Void will be R5 in a few days. But, realistically, this is a lower stage in the GC deck at the end of the season.

    I'm in D1 now, playing little and taking it easy. If you have a significantly weaker deck than this, the road to the GC will be difficult. That's just how it is.



  • Options
    TyEdgeTyEdge Posts: 2,985 ★★★★★
    gohard123 said:

    TyEdge said:

    Meanwhile I took a couple seasons off and all the work I did building a valiant roster gets me nothing because I’m getting spired against valiants who didn’t take a couple months off.

    Literally a skill issue because people in this thread swear that if they had a valiant roster that they would be able to compete.
    Oh, I have no illusions about that. I overcame that for years by playing efficiently, farming units and building a deeper roster than most.

    That has been exacerbated recently by stepping away from the game and acquiring very few new champs, so now game knowledge has dipped too.
  • Options
    Rayven5220Rayven5220 Posts: 1,916 ★★★★★
    I can't believe this is still going. It's entertaining, though.
  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,386 ★★★★★
    edited May 26
    WeaponX2112 said:

    Most of us can agree Jax has been a tremendous addition to Kabam's team and appreciate the effort he's put in on the forums, livestreams, and discord in communicating with the community. But I feel this post was a misstep. Something like this would be better served in a livestream where people can see when you're being sincere or when you're teasing by your facial expressions and tone of voice. There's a wide range to the age and languages of the player base. By placing this post under "News" in game it's not hard to imagine many not seeing the satire that was intended in parts of it. I know there are LOTS of complaints, but its problematic that the post makes it seem anyone that complains doesn't understand "true competition" and needs to just "get gud" or spend time elsewhere and doesn't acknowledge facts like: some AI issues have been confirmed; nodes(sometimes in season!), matchmaking, and even how medals are awarded have all been adjusted at various times, and oh hey, some bugs(game crashes, zero scores, auto picks) that have been present in the game mode since the beginning remain. I'm sure the overall intention was to reduce frustration by adjusting player expectation and mentality toward the mode, but I don't think that's how it will be widely received.

    The people complaining about matchmaking don't understand true competition. That isn't some conspiracy, it's fact.

    Jax's post wasn't to jest about a.i issues. Strictly for those who we see complaining about matchmaking and not understanding how it works.
  • Options
    MoneylessMercMoneylessMerc Posts: 20 ★
    Rayven5220 said:

    I can't believe this is still going. It's entertaining, though.

    For real.
  • Options
    Mdowney80Mdowney80 Posts: 80 ★
    edited May 26
    If I were the CEO of Kabam I’d probably wonder why one of my employees made a post like that about a community I was trying to get money from. 🤷🏻
    (I don’t play BGs after I get the objectives)
  • Options
    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,901 ★★★★★
    edited May 26
    Mdowney80 said:

    If I were the CEO of Kabam I’d probably wonder why one of my employees made a post like that about a community I was trying to get money from. 🤷🏻

    You sound like the type of Karen that will go to a fast food place, be disrespectful when the new guy getting trained gets her order mixed up with someone else's, and then threaten with calling corporate when another employee calls her a Karen.
  • Options
    PT_99PT_99 Posts: 3,031 ★★★★★
    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    May I suggest you do 100% of Necro and act-8 to improve your roaster and overcome this gap you talk about? 😃
  • Options
    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    Wicket329 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    Wicket329 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
    How would you handle title advancement mid-season?

    How would you balance rewards? You would need for the best rewards for a Cavalier player to be worse than the worst rewards for a Thronebreaker. Otherwise you’re creating a system which incentivizes lagging behind and not progressing.

    There are so many issues with your proposed system. It is not perfect by any stretch of the word.
    Very simple my friend. Look at incursion, that’s how the reward different base on title should be or at least similar like that, advancement in mid-season? No problem, that player will start over again for the next title. I don’t see any problem with it. That’s how Kabam stimulate people to move up in progression
    You think your "perfect system" would mean someones season progression is wipe if they move to the next title? And you think people won't complain? Lol
    Who said wipe out their progression on the previous level before? They will claim to which certain milestones they already achieved before they move to the next Title. Any other questions?
    So they get an extremely easy ride as the top of their class until they make the switch? How are you so confidently wrong on this?
    How many times they can do it in the lifespan of the game? Count how many title currently
  • Options
    DarkNightRiseDarkNightRise Posts: 192 ★
    Demonzfyre said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    Demonzfyre said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    Wicket329 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    ItsClobberinTime said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Manny Pacquiao would never fight Vladimir Klitschko for the same belt cause of weight difference, you on the other hand are competing against other players for the exact same rewards. What part of that are you unable to understand? Lol
    That’s why I suggest put different reward base on different title progression as well! That’s the perfect system, no complains about ridiculous match anymore
    How would you handle title advancement mid-season?

    How would you balance rewards? You would need for the best rewards for a Cavalier player to be worse than the worst rewards for a Thronebreaker. Otherwise you’re creating a system which incentivizes lagging behind and not progressing.

    There are so many issues with your proposed system. It is not perfect by any stretch of the word.
    Very simple my friend. Look at incursion, that’s how the reward different base on title should be or at least similar like that, advancement in mid-season? No problem, that player will start over again for the next title. I don’t see any problem with it. That’s how Kabam stimulate people to move up in progression
    You think your "perfect system" would mean someones season progression is wipe if they move to the next title? And you think people won't complain? Lol
    Who said wipe out their progression on the previous level before? They will claim to which certain milestones they already achieved before they move to the next Title. Any other questions?
    You don't see the flaw in that as well? Let's say there's an really strong Cav player and they've worked their way to the top of the cavalier ladder. All that would have to do is become TB and then according to you, they'd be at the top of the TB ladder without have fought anyone in TB.

    Imagine people doing this at the end of the season to steal easy rewards.

    But yes... "Perfect system" no one will complain about.
    You still don’t understand what I mean or try don’t want to understand! For instance, that Cav player will claim the Cav level reward milestone they achieved before they move to Paragon and start again from THE FIRST MILESTONES of Paragon! And count how many times in the lifespan of a game account this situation happen!
  • Options
    PT_99PT_99 Posts: 3,031 ★★★★★
    Terminatrix said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    As much as I love Jax and I appreciate the gesture to let people know it's okay, the stance behind it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    BGs has been anything but smooth. It's been a work in progress. Personally I've lost the drive the last few Seasons. Now we have new Milestones in Solo, and that might be motivation, but now I have to work my way back up from Bronze, against other Players who have either lost their drive or just haven't played last Season, and it's anything but easy.
    I've been vocal in the past about changes to the Victory Track and issues that have come up, and I'm afraid more Rewards aren't going to be enough to remedy participation. Even if you maintain your Season to streamline into Plat each Season, you're coming up against the best, and you have to wait until the last week to even bother.
    Some of this is because I dropped off. Fair enough. The rest, the Players who are much earlier on than myself, have no chance in hell. They're going to keep beating their heads against a wall. The problem is the Rewards are some of the most lucrative in the game, so they're going to keep trying.
    My issue isn't that Jax shared a friendly word. It's the fact that the stance is, for lack of a better word, tough. Which means people are being used because they need the numbers for Matchmaking, but also not being heard. More than that, being told their issues are just whining. Perhaps not the wording of Kabam, but it's the gist I get from everyone overall.
    The only thing I can say is listen to all Players. Not just the cream of the crop that have no problem and tell everyone else to "Git gud.". No matter where someone is at in the game, there's a person behind that Account. They'll only be told to get over it so long before they stop caring completely. Then you have a game mode that is so elitist people will lose interest.

    I actually agree with this
    Good thing we have agree and disagree buttons to press instead of commenting, "I agree" ---

    Oh wait 😶‍🌫️
  • Options
    Chuck_FinleyChuck_Finley Posts: 923 ★★★★★
    HungaryHippo said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    DNA3000 said:

    DarkNightRise said:

    My alt account is 1m7 rating but I consider myself decent skills so I still usually end up Vibranium. The annoying thing is I can beat those over 3m account but stand no chance when facing those Valiant 5m account and this matchup is already happen from Pla2.

    My point is that anyone that starts in P2 must have been able to promote from P2 in the previous season. So arguing that a player that starts in P2 has some weird disadvantage due to the way match making works that makes playing BG impossible is illogical.
    I just want your solution how to solve my case? Even Beroman or any top tier BG can’t promote from Pla2 with a 1m7 account! So do I just need to wait until the end of season to PLAY BG? I understand that there is no absolutely fair match, but at least reasonable for VC. I got so many match with over 5m Valiant account mean while I’m new paragon! Wtf is that!!!
    The question you're asking boils down to: how can weaker players consistently beat stronger ones. And the answer is: they can't, nor should they.

    Fairness is not about giving everyone an equal chance to enter GC or an equal chance to place #1. That's called a lottery. We can just choose every BG place by random draw, and that would be completely fair, if we decide the definition of "fair" is "everyone has an equal chance to succeed."

    But in a competition, that is not the definition of fair. The definition of fair is everyone has an equal and unbiased opportunity to advance to the degree their competitive strength will allow.

    Besides, these days a one million account means you started yesterday. I don't expect any such player to get to GC. I don't expect them to be able to find the front door to their house to leave in the morning. But I described how I was able to get a very mid Cav account into GC that had, at the time, less than two million rating. It isn't easy, but if I can do it, I'm pretty sure the players with far more skill than I have can do it also. It isn't impossible, and it doesn't require superhuman skill, time, or spending.
    So does this mean the FIRST important thing in BG is roster strength, not skills right? Imagine a match between Pacciao vs Vladimir Klitsko! Both have very good skills, but how long do you thing Pacciao can stand still? Do the audience want to see this kind of match? Do the boxer themselves want this match happen as well?
    Roster is a huge factor. It's why Bero cannot seem to win anymore. Everyone has the newest champs in their decks and he doesn't. You can outskill people to a degree but that has it's limits.
    Just sticky this at the top and close the thread. Skill might get you a bit further… but the whaliest of whales win every time. And if your skill matches your opponents skill but they are rocking the lastest OP defenders (mostly likely obtained by big $$$ investment) and you aren’t, you lose.

    To pretend otherwise is absurd. And that’s how Kabam wants it. End of story.

  • Options
    GroundedWisdomGroundedWisdom Posts: 36,360 ★★★★★
    PT_99 said:

    Terminatrix said:

    GroundedWisdom said:

    As much as I love Jax and I appreciate the gesture to let people know it's okay, the stance behind it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
    BGs has been anything but smooth. It's been a work in progress. Personally I've lost the drive the last few Seasons. Now we have new Milestones in Solo, and that might be motivation, but now I have to work my way back up from Bronze, against other Players who have either lost their drive or just haven't played last Season, and it's anything but easy.
    I've been vocal in the past about changes to the Victory Track and issues that have come up, and I'm afraid more Rewards aren't going to be enough to remedy participation. Even if you maintain your Season to streamline into Plat each Season, you're coming up against the best, and you have to wait until the last week to even bother.
    Some of this is because I dropped off. Fair enough. The rest, the Players who are much earlier on than myself, have no chance in hell. They're going to keep beating their heads against a wall. The problem is the Rewards are some of the most lucrative in the game, so they're going to keep trying.
    My issue isn't that Jax shared a friendly word. It's the fact that the stance is, for lack of a better word, tough. Which means people are being used because they need the numbers for Matchmaking, but also not being heard. More than that, being told their issues are just whining. Perhaps not the wording of Kabam, but it's the gist I get from everyone overall.
    The only thing I can say is listen to all Players. Not just the cream of the crop that have no problem and tell everyone else to "Git gud.". No matter where someone is at in the game, there's a person behind that Account. They'll only be told to get over it so long before they stop caring completely. Then you have a game mode that is so elitist people will lose interest.

    I actually agree with this
    Good thing we have agree and disagree buttons to press instead of commenting, "I agree" ---

    Oh wait 😶‍🌫️
    People can use their words. The Buttons are not a total meal replacement.
  • Options
    WeaponX2112WeaponX2112 Posts: 29 ★
    Demonzfyre said:

    WeaponX2112 said:

    Most of us can agree Jax has been a tremendous addition to Kabam's team and appreciate the effort he's put in on the forums, livestreams, and discord in communicating with the community. But I feel this post was a misstep. Something like this would be better served in a livestream where people can see when you're being sincere or when you're teasing by your facial expressions and tone of voice. There's a wide range to the age and languages of the player base. By placing this post under "News" in game it's not hard to imagine many not seeing the satire that was intended in parts of it. I know there are LOTS of complaints, but its problematic that the post makes it seem anyone that complains doesn't understand "true competition" and needs to just "get gud" or spend time elsewhere and doesn't acknowledge facts like: some AI issues have been confirmed; nodes(sometimes in season!), matchmaking, and even how medals are awarded have all been adjusted at various times, and oh hey, some bugs(game crashes, zero scores, auto picks) that have been present in the game mode since the beginning remain. I'm sure the overall intention was to reduce frustration by adjusting player expectation and mentality toward the mode, but I don't think that's how it will be widely received.

    The people complaining about matchmaking don't understand true competition. That isn't some conspiracy, it's fact.

    Jax's post wasn't to jest about a.i issues. Strictly for those who we see complaining about matchmaking and not understanding how it works.
    I agree that the matchmaking complaints most often come from a lack of understanding though I'm not sure where you're pulling the word conspiracy from. Also while matchmaking is what you and many in this thread have focused on, Jax's post isn't "strictly" about those complaints which is one of my problems with it. It seems to lump all BGs complaints together.

  • Options
    DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Posts: 21,386 ★★★★★
    DarkNightRise said:

    And count how many times in the lifespan of a game account this situation happen!

    There isn't a single thing in this game where what you just said happens.
  • Options
    Ayden_noah1Ayden_noah1 Posts: 1,385 ★★★★
    edited May 26
    I really wish Kabam would use a tier system like Incursion based on progresion with rewards to match those progressions, but also have an open division with the top rewards that anyone can join. This would allow uncollected to play only with uncollected summoners so this would resolve all this unfair BG matches due to account size. Don't get me wrong, there are different degrees of Uncollected accounts but it won't be as bad as Uncollected vs Valiant. So for those summoners who say they just want a fair match can have a fair match with progression based rewards. Now for those that are more daring and skilled that wants to test their might, the open division will be where they want to hang out. The open division has the best rewards (current reward or better) but matchmaking will be like current GC matchmaking.

    You can only enter one division per season, even if you went up progression during the season just like the daily calender. Once it starts it can't be changed.
  • Options
    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,901 ★★★★★
    Ayden_noah1 said:

    I really wish Kabam would use a tier system like Incursion based on progresion with rewards to match those progressions, but also have an open division with the top rewards that anyone can join. This would allow uncollected to play only with uncollected summoners so this would resolve all this unfair BG matches due to account size. Don't get me wrong, there are different degrees of Uncollected accounts but it won't be as bad as Uncollected vs Valiant. So for those summoners who say they just want a fair match can have a fair match with progression based rewards. Now for those that are more daring and skilled that wants to test their might, the open division will be where they want to hang out. The open division has the best rewards (current reward or better) but matchmaking will be like current GC matchmaking.

    You can only enter one division per season, even if you went up progression during the season just like the daily calender. Once it starts it can't be changed.

    I can guarantee you that if they did that, the forums would be flooded with "Valiants getting top rewards and Paragons and below getting short end of the stick once again" posts that same day. You can't please everyone unfortunately, and it's easier to just have unfair matchmaking after Plat than reworking the VT reward system completely to match each player's progression title.
  • Options
    TeleusTeleus Posts: 116 ★
    I just want to be able to permanently turn off the emotes - until then I will continue to report people who spam them, which I consider to be more than one per match.
  • Options
    ItsClobberinTimeItsClobberinTime Posts: 3,901 ★★★★★
    Teleus said:

    I just want to be able to permanently turn off the emotes - until then I will continue to report people who spam them, which I consider to be more than one per match.

    😂😂😂
This discussion has been closed.