My Opinion

I don't feel champions who turns off masteries for the negative detriment of the player are a valid or good game design.

Looking at you, Photon. No I'm not pissy.

Comments

Awesomep12

Agreed. This games about skill. You can't just take skills that we've learnt just "because of a gimmick". Heimdallllllll!!!!!!!!!

captain_rogers

Forgot about turning off dex, A champ should not punish you for completely dexing their specials, aka bullseye. His sp1 is almost impossible to evade, but if you manage to evade it, you still getbleed damage.you gotta be kidding lmao.

HuskerCool

I have the opinion that you should up your thread title game.

Furrymoosen

Step 1, create revive spam content.
Realize that players are using time and energy to farm revives.

Step 2, remove revive farming.
In return, offer 1 revive per day (not counting daily events that already had them).

Step 3, realize that players figured out how to still make it work without using units.
Panic.

Step 4, create champs that increase the likelihood of needing to heal or revive regardless of skill.

I wonder what step 5 will be.

smdam38

Totally agree. It costs a lot to even get masteries.
But now they can be turned off/negated?
Kind of ridiculous.

Emilia90

Step 1, create revive spam content.
Realize that players are using time and energy to farm revives.

Step 2, remove revive farming.
In return, offer 1 revive per day (not counting daily events that already had them).

Step 3, realize that players figured out how to still make it work without using units.
Panic.

Step 4, create champs that increase the likelihood of needing to heal or revive regardless of skill.

I wonder what step 5 will be.

1. Most content nowadays is easy and doesn’t need revive farming
2. Photon has a lot of counters now so…

ToniXD_16

Well Photon did bring a lot of attention might not be good attention but thats what you want with a champ and also she aint that bad yall are way too overhypeing her

SirGamesBond

Theres onslaught with ultra instinct intercepts.

Id take photon these days (she used to shallow dex intercept a month ago, haven't felt her doing that now a days.)

Legend_Writer

I think it would be fine if it was used sparingly and in specific ways. Like "oh I shouldn't let such and such get up to x amount of charges, it will let them disable dexterity".

Take this with a grain of salt though, I'm only tb and I don't really play bgs. Most of this stuff doesn't affect me all that much

smdam38

Let’s actually go back to the OP.

You buy masteries.
But, they may not work on new champs?

Nodes in goofy content I can understand.
But a champion that just shuts down masteries is kind of ridiculous?

Cloudddey_bro

Step 1, create revive spam content.
Realize that players are using time and energy to farm revives.

Step 2, remove revive farming.
In return, offer 1 revive per day (not counting daily events that already had them).

Step 3, realize that players figured out how to still make it work without using units.
Panic.

Step 4, create champs that increase the likelihood of needing to heal or revive regardless of skill.

I wonder what step 5 will be.
1. Most content nowadays is easy and doesn’t need revive farming
2. Photon has a lot of counters now so…

Don’t bother, these types just like to complain for the sake of complaining. What is this even going to do? Photon has been in the game quite a while now. Just learn to adapt this post isn’t going to remove her or stop kabam from adding more champs like this.

Ourobøros

Step 1, create revive spam content.
Realize that players are using time and energy to farm revives.

Step 2, remove revive farming.
In return, offer 1 revive per day (not counting daily events that already had them).

Step 3, realize that players figured out how to still make it work without using units.
Panic.

Step 4, create champs that increase the likelihood of needing to heal or revive regardless of skill.

I wonder what step 5 will be.
1. Most content nowadays is easy and doesn’t need revive farming
2. Photon has a lot of counters now so…

Don’t bother, these types just like to complain for the sake of complaining. What is this even going to do? Photon has been in the game quite a while now. Just learn to adapt this post isn’t going to remove her or stop kabam from adding more champs like this.

Complaining about complaining? I see you post about crystal pulls

EdisonLaw

I am wondering what will they turn off in 2025? Your device?

DNA3000

Totally agree. It costs a lot to even get masteries.
But now they can be turned off/negated?
Kind of ridiculous.

Yeah, rather than turn off Willpower, they should just inflict you with a passive spectre instead. That would allow you to continue to use Willpower, and preserve everyone's sense of "design purity."

Long before I started playing this game, I suggested to another dev team that they implement the "whine flag." The whine flag would be a binary flag that would be flipped whenever someone complained about a game design decision without understanding the design implications, based on completely made-up criteria. The effect of the whine flag would be: their characters, and only their characters would get what they asked for. And the flag would be permanent and un-appealable. Once you ask for it, you get it, forever.

If I had infinite discretionary design power in MCOC, I'd consider it.

Photon is not intended to simply hand the player unlimited healing via debuffs. There are a lot of ways to prevent that. They could have made all of Photon's effects passives, which would mean skill champs couldn't purify them. They could implement a persistent spectre debuff which would either completely neutralize all healing (not just from Photon's debuffs, but from recoil masteries and any other node sources) or even reverse it. There's lots of things they could do. Disabling Willpower was the route they went. But the idea that if they were prevented from disabling Willpower then that would be it, players would just get free healing from Photon, is ludicrous. It took a ton of extra development work to implement Willpower disabling. The devs didn't have to do that. They could have used any of the other options available to them. They implemented Willpower disable because all other options were much worse. But give them no choice, and they will use them, as would I.

You don't get to "keep" Willpower healing. Poison can reduce it. Spectre can even reverse it against you. There's no rule in the game that says everything must benefit the player, even though there are lots of players who believe that. Ability accuracy reduction should only be allowed if it helps me, it is unfair/nonsensical/broken if it hurts me. Masteries must always help, if the game mechanics prevent that the rules of the game should change until they do. Nodes designed to help the player must help every champ in their roster or they are busted. None of these things are actual game design rules, and none of them actually make sense when it comes to designing a consistent and reasonable game experience. They are just the complaints of players who think everything should go their way, they way they want, the way they expect.

Nobody follows those rules.

Priyabrata

It is what it is

Trek26

Photon turns off dex, no champ immune to nueroshock, can't dex bullseye's attacks with a bleed champ without taking damage.. they really have been anti player

Joker1976

Nah I think the game team are on the right track …tbh.
Take photon for example,..she is by no means op.
But shuts down willpower,..which is in essence…balance. People have to understand that this game is 10 years old,….and there are intricate adjustments to be made.
For the health and longevity of the game,…believe it or not,…i trust Kabam in these decisions.

GrassKnuckles

If Photon did not turn off willpower, she would not be a hard defender
If Photon did not turn off dex, she would not be a hard defender
Photon was designed with the intentions of being a very hard defender

You can put the pieces together if you want

smdam38

It takes a lot to unlock masteries.
Introducing champions that shut down those masteries is dumb.

Obviously @DNA3000 disagrees and thinks I am just whining?

Let’s take a trip.
So you manage to either spend or get the mastery cores to unlock willpower.

Meanwhile, here’s a champ that just shuts that down.

Guess I am a whiner book boy.

Emilia90

Photon turns off dex, no champ immune to nueroshock, can't dex bullseye's attacks with a bleed champ without taking damage.. they really have been anti player

It’s almost like there’s ways to play around photon turning off dex and tons of champs can nuke her before she even enters pure light

You don’t need a neuroshock immune because most champs can nuke onslaught with high health as long as you don’t parry

smdam38

Can’t even reply because it has to be “approved”

Trek26

Photon turns off dex, no champ immune to nueroshock, can't dex bullseye's attacks with a bleed champ without taking damage.. they really have been anti player
It’s almost like there’s ways to play around photon turning off dex and tons of champs can nuke her before she even enters pure light

You don’t need a neuroshock immune because most champs can nuke onslaught with high health as long as you don’t parry

What? No comment for bullseye?

Y'all really be acting like all of us that say something don't know how to play the game, anyone can do this and anyone can do that.. it's not the point though, is it? You really need lucky draws in BGs for counters. That's if you have them ranked or have them in general. I'm sitting in arcane 3 though so I shouldn't complain too much

Squidopus

Tbh think what you want about turning off masteries (I personally have literally no issue with it, champs like Photon and Serpent are only stupid because Kabam didn’t balance around the mastery removal) but I don’t get the argument of “I paid for it, you can’t just turn it off” at all because you pay in some way for literally everything in this game and everything loses value eventually. People paid for crystals to get Bullseye, in many cases actual money instead of farmed units on mastery points. Kabam released buffed Sinister and now basically everyone has a hard counter. Bullseye is now devalued. Is that unfair? People paid for Bullseye and people now have a champ that basically turns him off completely. Same deal for Herc players and the crop of anti-Herc measures in places like champ kits, the necropolis, and story bosses.

Your masteries are still very much there, it’s just disabled by a few new champions. Mind you, your masteries were already effectively disabled by a number of champions and nodes anyways. You weren’t getting value from willpower on heal block nodes and were punished for it by champs like Warlock. Mangog doesn’t disable dex but you’re welcome to try doing so against his unblockable sp2. Same deal for Ikaris’s sp2. If your mastery purchases were truly devalued because of this then I invite you to just remove dex altogether, invest the points in a mastery that can’t be disabled and see how that works out.

captain_rogers

I agree with photon and even dust turning off willpower. But Onslaught turning off willpower is just pure evil. You can parry him, I understand. But atleast make his AI suitable for intercepting atleast. I don't owe a death in bg and war because of youe stupid AI. If you're not going to fix ai, atleast don't turn off willpower when fighting onslaught.

DNA3000

Totally agree. It costs a lot to even get masteries.
But now they can be turned off/negated?
Kind of ridiculous.
Yeah, rather than turn off Willpower, they should just inflict you with a passive spectre instead. That would allow you to continue to use Willpower, and preserve everyone's sense of "design purity."

Long before I started playing this game, I suggested to another dev team that they implement the "whine flag." The whine flag would be a binary flag that would be flipped whenever someone complained about a game design decision without understanding the design implications, based on completely made-up criteria. The effect of the whine flag would be: their characters, and only their characters would get what they asked for. And the flag would be permanent and un-appealable. Once you ask for it, you get it, forever.

If I had infinite discretionary design power in MCOC, I'd consider it.

Photon is not intended to simply hand the player unlimited healing via debuffs. There are a lot of ways to prevent that. They could have made all of Photon's effects passives, which would mean skill champs couldn't purify them. They could implement a persistent spectre debuff which would either completely neutralize all healing (not just from Photon's debuffs, but from recoil masteries and any other node sources) or even reverse it. There's lots of things they could do. Disabling Willpower was the route they went. But the idea that if they were prevented from disabling Willpower then that would be it, players would just get free healing from Photon, is ludicrous. It took a ton of extra development work to implement Willpower disabling. The devs didn't have to do that. They could have used any of the other options available to them. They implemented Willpower disable because all other options were much worse. But give them no choice, and they will use them, as would I.

You don't get to "keep" Willpower healing. Poison can reduce it. Spectre can even reverse it against you. There's no rule in the game that says everything must benefit the player, even though there are lots of players who believe that. Ability accuracy reduction should only be allowed if it helps me, it is unfair/nonsensical/broken if it hurts me. Masteries must always help, if the game mechanics prevent that the rules of the game should change until they do. Nodes designed to help the player must help every champ in their roster or they are busted. None of these things are actual game design rules, and none of them actually make sense when it comes to designing a consistent and reasonable game experience. They are just the complaints of players who think everything should go their way, they way they want, the way they expect.

Nobody follows those rules.
Asking a serious question here.
You think you run the place.

Did you or did you not put my account into a post approval group for posts?

I already ticketed it so they’ll see. Just wondering if you’ll actually own up.

I don’t have that capability on the forums. My profile is not flagged private, so anyone can see I don’t have the moderator role here.

And even if I had it, silencing replies to my posts is not really my style, as any one who’s paid any attention to my posts over the last nine years would find obvious.

However, asking a question and then making it clear that you already think you know the answer is very on-brand for you.

smdam38

Asking a question? I didn’t ask anything dude.
On brand for me?
Bro, you’re so off that the forum is outside your phone screen.
I guess we’ll see.

smdam38

Back on topic. No, it should not be a thing.

WednesdayLength

Personally I don't see it as any different than a champion that is immune to bleed, it doesn't punish players that invested in a champion that bleeds it just means you have to use a different option

Maat1985

how is a champ turning willpower off any different to robots getting no benefit from it?
or champs like kingpin and DDHK getting reduced benefit from it?

not all masteries are designed to work in every situation.

Buttehrs

Photon turns off dex, no champ immune to nueroshock, can't dex bullseye's attacks with a bleed champ without taking damage.. they really have been anti player

Congrats. You listed 3 champs out of almost 300.