Serpent Really Isn’t Getting Rebalanced?

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  • Mirac1eMirac1e Member Posts: 48

    EdisonLaw said:

    It’s time kabam atleast noticed this or atleast acknowledges its here. @KabamDORK

    @Kabam Crashed @Kabam Pinwheel
    I don't have time to read all 26 pages of this thread but I read a lot of it and since you tagged me I will say what I know. The thread's title answers its own question, Serpent really isn't getting rebalanced.

    I had no idea whether or not he would be rebalanced until I read the forum post. I could have asked our balance team but I didn't bother. Why? Because I was agnostic to the results. If they had said he was too strong and needed to be rebalanced, I would have trusted them. They concluded he is having the meta impact that was intended, and I trust them.

    So for me now it's about getting better fighting him and strategizing in Battlegrounds based on the meta (either ban him or include enough counters that I can deal with him). Right now I have been banning him but I just duped my Luke yesterday so I might start leaving him open to see if it gives me an advantage.

    I don't really think there is anything else for me to say. The balance post is the team's official position.
    "I have been banning him", sounds about right... It is absolutely insane to me that even a Kabam employee admits the best strategy against Serpent is the ban button yet the rebalance team thinks this is perfectly fine.
    You guys need to get a new rebalance team then cause they're not doing their job.
    Sometimes I really sympathize with the content design team. They've been putting in a tremendous amount of effort recently, constantly delivering new features and improvements. Yet, all that work feel diminished when the balance team’s decisions lead to riot and frustrations within the community.
  • NightheartNightheart Member Posts: 2,117 ★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    It’s time kabam atleast noticed this or atleast acknowledges its here. @KabamDORK

    @Kabam Crashed @Kabam Pinwheel
    I don't have time to read all 26 pages of this thread but I read a lot of it and since you tagged me I will say what I know. The thread's title answers its own question, Serpent really isn't getting rebalanced.

    I had no idea whether or not he would be rebalanced until I read the forum post. I could have asked our balance team but I didn't bother. Why? Because I was agnostic to the results. If they had said he was too strong and needed to be rebalanced, I would have trusted them. They concluded he is having the meta impact that was intended, and I trust them.

    So for me now it's about getting better fighting him and strategizing in Battlegrounds based on the meta (either ban him or include enough counters that I can deal with him). Right now I have been banning him but I just duped my Luke yesterday so I might start leaving him open to see if it gives me an advantage.

    I don't really think there is anything else for me to say. The balance post is the team's official position.
    Thanks for the response I guess it's bravo six going dark when Serpent shoes up 😆 ☕️☕️☕️ Much appreciated!
  • MadGodOryxMadGodOryx Member Posts: 76
    EdisonLaw said:

    No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”

    Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
    You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
  • MadGodOryxMadGodOryx Member Posts: 76
    EdisonLaw said:

    Look who I got guys


    He’ll be fantastic for you as you quest. As awful, awfully designed as he is for defense, hes a really fun attacker, and I hope he helps you a lot as you progress in the game.
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 7,735 ★★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    Look who I got guys


    He’ll be fantastic for you as you quest. As awful, awfully designed as he is for defense, hes a really fun attacker, and I hope he helps you a lot as you progress in the game.
    Also a great option for everest content
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,604 ★★★★★

    Eh I’m the minority here but I think not nerfing him is fine. He’s harder for sure with certain nodes but he’s far from an insurmountable opponent still lol

    I think a lot of the people who say he’s strong but not too strong have their standards for what’s “too strong” lower than they should be. Being able to have a clean fight against serpent doesn’t make him fair. In fact a big problem is that you can have a perfectly clean fight but it still took 70s so you lost because it was so slow. His absolute best counters like Chavez take 55s on a good fight in a neutral meta, that’s literally more of a stall than rank 3 sassy, and that’s when using one of his best counters.

    In an average fight with a decent counter, it’s closer to finishing in 80-90s with 85% health which is about 46k points. In less competitive tiers of bgs you can get away with 46k points as a win most of the time. But once you reach gc, and as you climb the ranks that score becomes less and less likely to get a win. It could still have been a clean fight, but you simply didn’t have enough damage to take him down and his pierce made you eat block damage. Nothing you can do about it.

    When we use the term unbalanced, we’re comparing serpent to other defenders and seeing how he’s very far above them. It’s not inherently the level of difficulty that’s the issue, it’s the fact that his level of difficulty is much higher than everyone else’s that he stands out among the crowd. (And obviously that you can’t work around his kit using skill, it’s either draft a counter or lose.) If kabam decides that the overall difficulty of bgs is too low, then the solution is not to release a broken defender who is a cut above the rest, it’s to increase the difficulty of the nodes so that many champs are made more difficult. Notice how tame most of the metas have been since serpent’s release? And the ones that weren’t made him quite clearly broken as if he wasn’t bad enough already.

    He’s bad for the game in his current state, both from a competitive and design standpoint. If you don’t play bgs completely (and that’s fine you don’t have to) then you won’t feel the full effect of serpent in competitive play. He’s hurt the mode quite a bit.
    Well I’ll just say I have plenty of alliance members that play bgs really heavy and none of them have complained about Serpent or were even mad he wasn’t nerfed bc even in the current meta there’s been more than a few ways around him. And besides in future metas where he MIGHT actually get broken…you could just block him as an option lol I mean that is part of the idea behind the whole ban portion at the start of bgs lol don’t wanna fight this champ? Then don’t. lol
    It’s fine that they don’t, but I can also mention to you as examples top players like Trappy, Nagase, Lagacy, KT1, etc who are in favor of a nerf and have complained about him. It’s not because they have a “skill issue” as so many suggest and just suck at fighting him, but rather that serpent even if they play well is busted enough to cause a loss.

    As far as the “just ban him” argument that I see all the time, “just ban him” is not a solution. It’s a band-aid. I as the individual can and currently do ban him if I choose to, but that ignores all the game balance issues he creates and design issues for kabam that he creates. I also don’t see why I the player should have to be at a disadvantage wasting one of my bans because Kabam can’t properly balance a champ. If serpent was a skill based defender that I just needed to learn how to fight then banning him instead of learning him would be my fault. But he’s the complete antithesis of a skill based fight, he’s an rpg ask with very few answers. This is why top players have some struggle against him, because he’s not testing their skills he’s testing their draft luck.
    To be fair I know some that aren’t upset about not getting nerfed too lol KT1/Lags seem to be the loudest about it but when it comes to complaints they go in one ear out the other these days. I would argue in my experience a lot of loses I’ve seen to him have been more on a skill set(or just not thinking options through lol) result tho. It’ll be fine imo tho in another month or two well probably be on to complaining some other champ is just too hard…as the cycle goes so often here lol
    You keep repeating you know "some"
    But you also refuse to name those "some." 🤗
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,604 ★★★★★

    Lol keep deleting all the comments you want Kabam, I'm gonna make sure this thread stays at the top every single time you try to push it down by deleting comments. The only thing that will stop me from keeping this thread at the top is a ban, but they have no reason to swing that ban hammer yet so I'll just keep posting comments 💀

    Doing lord's work 🙏
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,604 ★★★★★

    I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...

    About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
    About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
    When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
    BigBlueOx said:

    I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...

    About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
    About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
    What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
    You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
    I’m tired of repeating the same arguments over and over so there’s answers to why those arguments are bad in previous pages.

    But again, this didn’t answer my question. What skill is serpent testing? Neither praying for a counter in the draft or pressing the ban button is a skill being tested.
    See that's the problem, people see the word challenge and immediately get triggered questioning skill...
    Having a broad ranked roster is a challenge in this game as well.
    80 sec fight as someone said? Well . Have to strategize your own defender as well.
    And how is that a good challenge? We all jump to mentioning skill because it is objectively the best attribute to be challenged. Skill based gamemodes reward practice and proficiency. Drafting a counter rewards me being lucky in pulling that counter out of a crystal and then in the draft.

    As far as strategy goes, serpent removes more strategy than he adds. If I draft bullseye and my opponent drafts Onslaught, suddenly I have to rethink my decision to place him on defense as onslaught can take him in 45s with 95% health. If I draft serpent and they draft Chavez, it’s like eh whatever he’s still gonna take 70s. Serpent is a braindead win 90% of the time. Really not sure how that adds strategy.
    Knowing when to throw a round is part of strategy too 🤷
    Kabam, now people are suggesting to throw a round when we're forced to fight serpent in BG.
    🤣
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,604 ★★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Is this fact enough?

    Do that in gc and I’ll count him in as a counter
    Its not mine, oh so now it has to be in GC...
    How about on a friday at 12:45 PM with a 72°F weather?
    If you think torch having 80/160% extra attack is a fair test I don’t know what to tell you
    Dudes trolling, it ain’t worth it.
    Yea atp it’s pretty obvious rage bait lol.
    Pretty sure every contrarian, white knight and troll has tried to get this closed down with lame attempts like this now.

    Some who disagreed had honest points of view at least but clearly not all.
    Why do you think in every complain/suggestion thread there's handful of these usual people, intentionally trying to get a raise out of others which results in threads getting closed or warnings?
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,604 ★★★★★
    krystolix said:

    Let's get it to 1,000 comments!

    Let's just keep it to top forever.
    So everytime Kabam mods sign here they'll have to take a deep sigh.
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,604 ★★★★★
    BigBlueOx said:

    The absolute absence of any response on a thread like this really is something else. I’m baffled that nobody is even willing to put out a statement on this. Not agreement necessarily but just a statement.

    In past instances we at least got that much respect and acknowledgement.

    I bet if Kabam miike was here, he would've responded, warned, banned and closed this thread already 😭
    Miss him.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,741 ★★★★★
    PT_99 said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    BigBlueOx said:

    Is this fact enough?

    Do that in gc and I’ll count him in as a counter
    Its not mine, oh so now it has to be in GC...
    How about on a friday at 12:45 PM with a 72°F weather?
    If you think torch having 80/160% extra attack is a fair test I don’t know what to tell you
    Dudes trolling, it ain’t worth it.
    Yea atp it’s pretty obvious rage bait lol.
    Pretty sure every contrarian, white knight and troll has tried to get this closed down with lame attempts like this now.

    Some who disagreed had honest points of view at least but clearly not all.
    Why do you think in every complain/suggestion thread there's handful of these usual people, intentionally trying to get a raise out of others which results in threads getting closed or warnings?
    I'm surprised this thread doesn't get derailed by usual suspects, And I'm pretty sure this is the only complaint in mcoc history majority of people agreed with.

  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,604 ★★★★★
    NONYABIZZ said:

    Why is this thread still going?
    Serpent is not getting rebalanced and that's final.
    Complaining will not alter the outcome.
    Eventually he will die down as we get better and more champs who work for him get added and discovered, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER DEFENDER before and after him.
    (You can disagree, but what's done is done)

    Why are you getting upset?
    Players will not stop talking about the biggest goof moment in MCoC history and that's final.
    Complaining about this thread will not alter the outcome.
    Eventually this thread will die down as we get better and more threads to comment on.
    JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER THREAD before and after this.
    (You think I'm copying you but we just have same writing behaviour)
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,604 ★★★★★

    EdisonLaw said:

    No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”

    Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
    You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
    The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate
    But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮

    And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,741 ★★★★★
    PT_99 said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”

    Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
    You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
    The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate
    But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮

    And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
    No, Most summoners (and even kabam) is unaware of Kate's potential, that's why she was in the pool and that's why she got rejected.

    Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,741 ★★★★★

    PT_99 said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”

    Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
    You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
    The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate
    But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮

    And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
    No, Most summoners (and even kabam) is unaware of Kate's potential, that's why she was in the pool and that's why she got rejected.

    Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
    Wasn't there some fiasco with clairvoyant being too good so kabam had to redo the mystic vote? They might've done something similar if kate won and kabam started internally testing her 7* version.
    No. Actually claire was not their plan I guess, They accidentally had her in the poll instead of spidy supreme (This is their story atleast).

    The funny thing is, if claire wasn't removed from the poll, She would be the winner instead of juggs. While claire is great, She is nowhere near to juggs in bgs. Juggernaut is Too Op in bgs He almost always gets banned in high tier ones. Serpent got fear debuff mainly to shut him down

    Basically they thought claire would be too OP but it's actually juggs who ended up being a OP. A 7* claire wouldn't be as good as 7* juggs atleast for bgs. So it's a W for us.

    The blunders in the poll imo is Colossus over toad.
  • FieryOasisFieryOasis Member Posts: 13

    PT_99 said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”

    Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
    You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
    The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate
    But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮

    And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
    No, Most summoners (and even kabam) is unaware of Kate's potential, that's why she was in the pool and that's why she got rejected.

    Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
    Wasn't there some fiasco with clairvoyant being too good so kabam had to redo the mystic vote? They might've done something similar if kate won and kabam started internally testing her 7* version.
    No. Actually claire was not their plan I guess, They accidentally had her in the poll instead of spidy supreme (This is their story atleast).

    The funny thing is, if claire wasn't removed from the poll, She would be the winner instead of juggs. While claire is great, She is nowhere near to juggs in bgs. Juggernaut is Too Op in bgs He almost always gets banned in high tier ones. Serpent got fear debuff mainly to shut him down

    Basically they thought claire would be too OP but it's actually juggs who ended up being a OP. A 7* claire wouldn't be as good as 7* juggs atleast for bgs. So it's a W for us.

    The blunders in the poll imo is Colossus over toad.
    Yeah, not arguing there, claire is good and all but juggs is amazing. And yet people think kabam is some supervillain genius figure constantly sabotaging the players. Sometimes, kabam just fumbles.

    Also, toad would be a perfect 7*, he's got all the typical mutant traits like regen and prowess, a tricky defender and a great skill counter. We've already gotten some champs from the polls like longshot, diablo, omega sentinel. Toad might be released soon too.
  • captain_rogerscaptain_rogers Member Posts: 9,741 ★★★★★

    PT_99 said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”

    Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
    You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
    The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate
    But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮

    And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
    No, Most summoners (and even kabam) is unaware of Kate's potential, that's why she was in the pool and that's why she got rejected.

    Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
    Wasn't there some fiasco with clairvoyant being too good so kabam had to redo the mystic vote? They might've done something similar if kate won and kabam started internally testing her 7* version.
    No. Actually claire was not their plan I guess, They accidentally had her in the poll instead of spidy supreme (This is their story atleast).

    The funny thing is, if claire wasn't removed from the poll, She would be the winner instead of juggs. While claire is great, She is nowhere near to juggs in bgs. Juggernaut is Too Op in bgs He almost always gets banned in high tier ones. Serpent got fear debuff mainly to shut him down

    Basically they thought claire would be too OP but it's actually juggs who ended up being a OP. A 7* claire wouldn't be as good as 7* juggs atleast for bgs. So it's a W for us.

    The blunders in the poll imo is Colossus over toad.
    Yeah, not arguing there, claire is good and all but juggs is amazing. And yet people think kabam is some supervillain genius figure constantly sabotaging the players. Sometimes, kabam just fumbles.

    Also, toad would be a perfect 7*, he's got all the typical mutant traits like regen and prowess, a tricky defender and a great skill counter. We've already gotten some champs from the polls like longshot, diablo, omega sentinel. Toad might be released soon too.
    Maybe in next titan possibly.
  • MadGodOryxMadGodOryx Member Posts: 76
    PT_99 said:

    EdisonLaw said:

    No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”

    Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
    You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
    The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate
    But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮

    And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
    Those Twitter bots are heroes, and we should be grateful for their service.
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