I don't have time to read all 26 pages of this thread but I read a lot of it and since you tagged me I will say what I know. The thread's title answers its own question, Serpent really isn't getting rebalanced.
I had no idea whether or not he would be rebalanced until I read the forum post. I could have asked our balance team but I didn't bother. Why? Because I was agnostic to the results. If they had said he was too strong and needed to be rebalanced, I would have trusted them. They concluded he is having the meta impact that was intended, and I trust them.
So for me now it's about getting better fighting him and strategizing in Battlegrounds based on the meta (either ban him or include enough counters that I can deal with him). Right now I have been banning him but I just duped my Luke yesterday so I might start leaving him open to see if it gives me an advantage.
I don't really think there is anything else for me to say. The balance post is the team's official position.
Thanks for the response I guess it's bravo six going dark when Serpent shoes up 😆 ☕️☕️☕️ Much appreciated!
I don't have time to read all 26 pages of this thread but I read a lot of it and since you tagged me I will say what I know. The thread's title answers its own question, Serpent really isn't getting rebalanced.
I had no idea whether or not he would be rebalanced until I read the forum post. I could have asked our balance team but I didn't bother. Why? Because I was agnostic to the results. If they had said he was too strong and needed to be rebalanced, I would have trusted them. They concluded he is having the meta impact that was intended, and I trust them.
So for me now it's about getting better fighting him and strategizing in Battlegrounds based on the meta (either ban him or include enough counters that I can deal with him). Right now I have been banning him but I just duped my Luke yesterday so I might start leaving him open to see if it gives me an advantage.
I don't really think there is anything else for me to say. The balance post is the team's official position.
I’m honestly really disappointed in this. Serpent is an absolute menace and not in a good way. The fact you state you have been banning him just shows how ridiculous he is. I’m glad you duped Luke as he seems like a great champ but Luke is still a really slow fight against him. I’m glad you trust the balance team because I sure don’t. After playing every BG meta where he’s been an absolute piece of flaming garbage that nobody enjoys fighting, I just can’t trust their word on anything.
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
So it's an automatic ban for him. Probably an auto ban for Enchantress (depending on the nodes since she's got fun interactive damage). Throwing a fight, which isn't strategic at all in my opinion. Neither is banning champs just because they're almost impossible. Almost is the key word. So it's like we're not gonna be able to be strategic in the future if more champs like them come out.
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
I don't have time to read all 26 pages of this thread but I read a lot of it and since you tagged me I will say what I know. The thread's title answers its own question, Serpent really isn't getting rebalanced. I had no idea whether or not he would be rebalanced until I read the forum post. I could have asked our balance team but I didn't bother. Why? Because I was agnostic to the results. If they had said he was too strong and needed to be rebalanced, I would have trusted them. They concluded he is having the meta impact that was intended, and I trust them. I don't really think there is anything else for me to say. The balance post is the team's official position.
Well the number are the numbers. I hope this doesn’t affect the game in any way and push players into stepping away because of this perceived nonsense. There’s a fairly big sale going on right now and it would be ashamed if people responded by refusing to spend money on the game. I’m curious if sales were poor if that would get anyone’s attention
He’ll be fantastic for you as you quest. As awful, awfully designed as he is for defense, hes a really fun attacker, and I hope he helps you a lot as you progress in the game.
He’ll be fantastic for you as you quest. As awful, awfully designed as he is for defense, hes a really fun attacker, and I hope he helps you a lot as you progress in the game.
Eh I’m the minority here but I think not nerfing him is fine. He’s harder for sure with certain nodes but he’s far from an insurmountable opponent still lol
I think a lot of the people who say he’s strong but not too strong have their standards for what’s “too strong” lower than they should be. Being able to have a clean fight against serpent doesn’t make him fair. In fact a big problem is that you can have a perfectly clean fight but it still took 70s so you lost because it was so slow. His absolute best counters like Chavez take 55s on a good fight in a neutral meta, that’s literally more of a stall than rank 3 sassy, and that’s when using one of his best counters.
In an average fight with a decent counter, it’s closer to finishing in 80-90s with 85% health which is about 46k points. In less competitive tiers of bgs you can get away with 46k points as a win most of the time. But once you reach gc, and as you climb the ranks that score becomes less and less likely to get a win. It could still have been a clean fight, but you simply didn’t have enough damage to take him down and his pierce made you eat block damage. Nothing you can do about it.
When we use the term unbalanced, we’re comparing serpent to other defenders and seeing how he’s very far above them. It’s not inherently the level of difficulty that’s the issue, it’s the fact that his level of difficulty is much higher than everyone else’s that he stands out among the crowd. (And obviously that you can’t work around his kit using skill, it’s either draft a counter or lose.) If kabam decides that the overall difficulty of bgs is too low, then the solution is not to release a broken defender who is a cut above the rest, it’s to increase the difficulty of the nodes so that many champs are made more difficult. Notice how tame most of the metas have been since serpent’s release? And the ones that weren’t made him quite clearly broken as if he wasn’t bad enough already.
He’s bad for the game in his current state, both from a competitive and design standpoint. If you don’t play bgs completely (and that’s fine you don’t have to) then you won’t feel the full effect of serpent in competitive play. He’s hurt the mode quite a bit.
Well I’ll just say I have plenty of alliance members that play bgs really heavy and none of them have complained about Serpent or were even mad he wasn’t nerfed bc even in the current meta there’s been more than a few ways around him. And besides in future metas where he MIGHT actually get broken…you could just block him as an option lol I mean that is part of the idea behind the whole ban portion at the start of bgs lol don’t wanna fight this champ? Then don’t. lol
It’s fine that they don’t, but I can also mention to you as examples top players like Trappy, Nagase, Lagacy, KT1, etc who are in favor of a nerf and have complained about him. It’s not because they have a “skill issue” as so many suggest and just suck at fighting him, but rather that serpent even if they play well is busted enough to cause a loss.
As far as the “just ban him” argument that I see all the time, “just ban him” is not a solution. It’s a band-aid. I as the individual can and currently do ban him if I choose to, but that ignores all the game balance issues he creates and design issues for kabam that he creates. I also don’t see why I the player should have to be at a disadvantage wasting one of my bans because Kabam can’t properly balance a champ. If serpent was a skill based defender that I just needed to learn how to fight then banning him instead of learning him would be my fault. But he’s the complete antithesis of a skill based fight, he’s an rpg ask with very few answers. This is why top players have some struggle against him, because he’s not testing their skills he’s testing their draft luck.
To be fair I know some that aren’t upset about not getting nerfed too lol KT1/Lags seem to be the loudest about it but when it comes to complaints they go in one ear out the other these days. I would argue in my experience a lot of loses I’ve seen to him have been more on a skill set(or just not thinking options through lol) result tho. It’ll be fine imo tho in another month or two well probably be on to complaining some other champ is just too hard…as the cycle goes so often here lol
You keep repeating you know "some" But you also refuse to name those "some." 🤗
Lol keep deleting all the comments you want Kabam, I'm gonna make sure this thread stays at the top every single time you try to push it down by deleting comments. The only thing that will stop me from keeping this thread at the top is a ban, but they have no reason to swing that ban hammer yet so I'll just keep posting comments 💀
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
When players ask for a challenge they want something to test their skills. What skill is serpent testing? The skill of good draft rng?
I watched Vega's vid on this.. and he is kinda right...
About what? He was right about some things such as Kabam doing this on purpose so they can milk pre-release bundles but others such as him showing how good the "counters" are nah, he's 100% wrong about that. All the "counters" in the game currently suck because dread ruins any type of damage that isn't dot.
About needing this type of defenders to actually challenge players.
What’s the challenge, a luck competition?
You got 2 choices, load the deck with counters or ban him...
I’m tired of repeating the same arguments over and over so there’s answers to why those arguments are bad in previous pages.
But again, this didn’t answer my question. What skill is serpent testing? Neither praying for a counter in the draft or pressing the ban button is a skill being tested.
See that's the problem, people see the word challenge and immediately get triggered questioning skill... Having a broad ranked roster is a challenge in this game as well. 80 sec fight as someone said? Well . Have to strategize your own defender as well.
And how is that a good challenge? We all jump to mentioning skill because it is objectively the best attribute to be challenged. Skill based gamemodes reward practice and proficiency. Drafting a counter rewards me being lucky in pulling that counter out of a crystal and then in the draft.
As far as strategy goes, serpent removes more strategy than he adds. If I draft bullseye and my opponent drafts Onslaught, suddenly I have to rethink my decision to place him on defense as onslaught can take him in 45s with 95% health. If I draft serpent and they draft Chavez, it’s like eh whatever he’s still gonna take 70s. Serpent is a braindead win 90% of the time. Really not sure how that adds strategy.
Knowing when to throw a round is part of strategy too 🤷
Kabam, now people are suggesting to throw a round when we're forced to fight serpent in BG. 🤣
Its not mine, oh so now it has to be in GC... How about on a friday at 12:45 PM with a 72°F weather?
If you think torch having 80/160% extra attack is a fair test I don’t know what to tell you
Dudes trolling, it ain’t worth it.
Yea atp it’s pretty obvious rage bait lol.
Pretty sure every contrarian, white knight and troll has tried to get this closed down with lame attempts like this now.
Some who disagreed had honest points of view at least but clearly not all.
Why do you think in every complain/suggestion thread there's handful of these usual people, intentionally trying to get a raise out of others which results in threads getting closed or warnings?
The absolute absence of any response on a thread like this really is something else. I’m baffled that nobody is even willing to put out a statement on this. Not agreement necessarily but just a statement.
In past instances we at least got that much respect and acknowledgement.
I bet if Kabam miike was here, he would've responded, warned, banned and closed this thread already 😭 Miss him.
Its not mine, oh so now it has to be in GC... How about on a friday at 12:45 PM with a 72°F weather?
If you think torch having 80/160% extra attack is a fair test I don’t know what to tell you
Dudes trolling, it ain’t worth it.
Yea atp it’s pretty obvious rage bait lol.
Pretty sure every contrarian, white knight and troll has tried to get this closed down with lame attempts like this now.
Some who disagreed had honest points of view at least but clearly not all.
Why do you think in every complain/suggestion thread there's handful of these usual people, intentionally trying to get a raise out of others which results in threads getting closed or warnings?
I'm surprised this thread doesn't get derailed by usual suspects, And I'm pretty sure this is the only complaint in mcoc history majority of people agreed with.
Why is this thread still going? Serpent is not getting rebalanced and that's final. Complaining will not alter the outcome. Eventually he will die down as we get better and more champs who work for him get added and discovered, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER DEFENDER before and after him. (You can disagree, but what's done is done)
Why are you getting upset? Players will not stop talking about the biggest goof moment in MCoC history and that's final. Complaining about this thread will not alter the outcome. Eventually this thread will die down as we get better and more threads to comment on. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER THREAD before and after this. (You think I'm copying you but we just have same writing behaviour)
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮
And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
No, Most summoners (and even kabam) is unaware of Kate's potential, that's why she was in the pool and that's why she got rejected.
Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮
And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
No, Most summoners (and even kabam) is unaware of Kate's potential, that's why she was in the pool and that's why she got rejected.
Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
Wasn't there some fiasco with clairvoyant being too good so kabam had to redo the mystic vote? They might've done something similar if kate won and kabam started internally testing her 7* version.
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮
And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
No, Most summoners (and even kabam) is unaware of Kate's potential, that's why she was in the pool and that's why she got rejected.
Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
Wasn't there some fiasco with clairvoyant being too good so kabam had to redo the mystic vote? They might've done something similar if kate won and kabam started internally testing her 7* version.
No. Actually claire was not their plan I guess, They accidentally had her in the poll instead of spidy supreme (This is their story atleast).
The funny thing is, if claire wasn't removed from the poll, She would be the winner instead of juggs. While claire is great, She is nowhere near to juggs in bgs. Juggernaut is Too Op in bgs He almost always gets banned in high tier ones. Serpent got fear debuff mainly to shut him down
Basically they thought claire would be too OP but it's actually juggs who ended up being a OP. A 7* claire wouldn't be as good as 7* juggs atleast for bgs. So it's a W for us.
The blunders in the poll imo is Colossus over toad.
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮
And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
No, Most summoners (and even kabam) is unaware of Kate's potential, that's why she was in the pool and that's why she got rejected.
Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
Wasn't there some fiasco with clairvoyant being too good so kabam had to redo the mystic vote? They might've done something similar if kate won and kabam started internally testing her 7* version.
No. Actually claire was not their plan I guess, They accidentally had her in the poll instead of spidy supreme (This is their story atleast).
The funny thing is, if claire wasn't removed from the poll, She would be the winner instead of juggs. While claire is great, She is nowhere near to juggs in bgs. Juggernaut is Too Op in bgs He almost always gets banned in high tier ones. Serpent got fear debuff mainly to shut him down
Basically they thought claire would be too OP but it's actually juggs who ended up being a OP. A 7* claire wouldn't be as good as 7* juggs atleast for bgs. So it's a W for us.
The blunders in the poll imo is Colossus over toad.
Yeah, not arguing there, claire is good and all but juggs is amazing. And yet people think kabam is some supervillain genius figure constantly sabotaging the players. Sometimes, kabam just fumbles.
Also, toad would be a perfect 7*, he's got all the typical mutant traits like regen and prowess, a tricky defender and a great skill counter. We've already gotten some champs from the polls like longshot, diablo, omega sentinel. Toad might be released soon too.
I don't have time to read all 26 pages of this thread but I read a lot of it and since you tagged me I will say what I know. The thread's title answers its own question, Serpent really isn't getting rebalanced.
I had no idea whether or not he would be rebalanced until I read the forum post. I could have asked our balance team but I didn't bother. Why? Because I was agnostic to the results. If they had said he was too strong and needed to be rebalanced, I would have trusted them. They concluded he is having the meta impact that was intended, and I trust them.
So for me now it's about getting better fighting him and strategizing in Battlegrounds based on the meta (either ban him or include enough counters that I can deal with him). Right now I have been banning him but I just duped my Luke yesterday so I might start leaving him open to see if it gives me an advantage.
I don't really think there is anything else for me to say. The balance post is the team's official position.
I appreciate the response but I do think this is a very bad response.
You're not being agnostic to the the results, that's not how being agnostic works. You're just ignoring them all the while showing a lack of knowledge on the matter at hand.
You banning Serpent everytime in Battlegrounds is ok. But when the best counter to a champion for everybody becomes banning him in BGs, there is a serious problem with that said champion. I don't believe in the "Take counters for him" excuse, in BGs, there are other champs we have to worry about and take counters for.
On the other end, I'll gladly say that players are also part of the problem, at least in the BGs mode. There are a lot of people that have ranked up and placed him in their roster just to have that auto-win and they aren't willing to ban him because having him basically gives you an auto-win and players won't give this up so they find themselves not banning him and having to face him.
But when you talk about The Serpent and his impact on the game, we should be talking about how he impacts every game mode. Yes, the solution in BGs is pretty straightforward, we can ban him but we can't ban him in arenas, we can't ban him in quests, we can't ban him in AW. There is an argument to be made that in questing, we can chose our champions so that doesn't really pose a real problem.
But in Arenas, we don't have that luxury of choosing our champions based on what champions we will fight. That is a problem when you farm and find yourself against Serpent which means you basically have to win you 2 other fights or you'll lose your streak and that sometimes happen.
And in AW, it's not a given that you'll be able to take a Serpent counter, especially because you have to take champs to do you lane and do some MB. At the highest level, Alliances will communicate and they have enough skill and knowledge to have at least 1 Serpent counter in every group and even then, with all the nodes buffing him, he still is a nightmare to deal with. But on lower levels, players sometimes have to face defensive strategies that forces players to use their 3 roster spots just to do one lane. To add to this, players aren't as good skill-wise or knowledgeable about the game, some players have counters they could take but since they don't think they're good players and they can't manage to fight some champs, they shy away from fighting them which leaves their group with less players thus champions that could fight The Serpent (or others difficult champions).
That is what you're ignoring (and not being agnostic) because you don't even go to the length to get some information on this when given your role and position in the MCOC community, you should be trying to get this info.
And you have shown a lack of knowledge on this issue by bringing up Luke Cage like he was a good counter to Serpent. Yes, Luke Cage, with his Exhaustion debuffs can reduce Ability Power Rate by 25% for each debuffs so he could counter The Serpent's power gain but The Serpent can't have his APR reduced by more than 50% by non-Mystic champions. Yes, Luke Cage, with his Concussion debuffs is able to reduce AA by up to 75% but The Serpent gains Culforce charges when a buff is prevented by AAR (which counter AAR thus Neutralize) and his Death Immunity buff can't be prevented by AAR. Yes, Luke Cage, can inflict a Stun after his SP1 if the opponent has a Concussion debuff on him but The Serpent is immune to Stun during his opponent Special Attacks. Yes, Luke Cage can trigger an Indestructible passive that can work against SP3 if he's awakened but The Serpent gains a Power Gain buff that gives him 2 bars of power if his SP3 did 0 damage, this means that, combined with his Power Gain Buff and the Power Gain from triggering his Death Immunity, he can just SP3 chain you. Yes, Luke Cage has increased Block Proficiency when his Indestructible is on cooldown and a -30% damage reduction against physical projectiles but the Serpent has access to Fury buffs, Fury passives, Pierce passive, Attack Rating bonus for each Culforce charges depending on how close his opponent is to the wall, Burst of Energy Damage if you have your back to the wall.
And that is also the problem with The Serpent, his kit makes it so that even if you think outside the box to counter him, you just can't. All the counters that could/should work well against him just don't work as well as they should because he just cancels them, he (strongly) mitigates their abilities and they're sometimes not strong enough offensively to used and/or ranked up (Kindred, Mephisto, Loki, Mojo, etc..). There is nothing that can't be done with our skills, our knowledge or our outside the box thinking against him. And that's without talking about all the nodes he can benefit from and there are plenty of them.
I get that making a very strong (and even owerpowered) defensive champion has a positive impact for Kabam in terms of their revenues, even more with game modes like AWs and BGs. There are players that will pay some hefty sums to get them and when their hard counters come out, those same players will pay for them. There is more profit doing that, I'm pretty sure NTW sold more than Mantis because she came out after Bullseye when Mantis came out before champs like Leader and Photon that made her more relevant as a champion and I'm okay with that because let's not kid ourselves, that is what Kabam wanted with Serpent, this the "impact", the "performance" they wanted and the rebalance team talked about when saying The Serpent won't be nerfed.
But with Serpent, what I'm worried about is that he is another door opened on our way to some big power creep because the champion that will hard counter him will have to get some pretty big base stats as well as some new abilities that won't be countered (right away) and will need Kabam to make other strong Cosmic defenders. Serpent is way too overpowered as a defender and will probably take an overpowered counter and instead balancing the meta by nerfing a champ, the devs will have to balance the game constantly by releasing more complex and overpowered champs.
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮
And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
No, Most summoners (and even kabam) is unaware of Kate's potential, that's why she was in the pool and that's why she got rejected.
Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
Wasn't there some fiasco with clairvoyant being too good so kabam had to redo the mystic vote? They might've done something similar if kate won and kabam started internally testing her 7* version.
No. Actually claire was not their plan I guess, They accidentally had her in the poll instead of spidy supreme (This is their story atleast).
The funny thing is, if claire wasn't removed from the poll, She would be the winner instead of juggs. While claire is great, She is nowhere near to juggs in bgs. Juggernaut is Too Op in bgs He almost always gets banned in high tier ones. Serpent got fear debuff mainly to shut him down
Basically they thought claire would be too OP but it's actually juggs who ended up being a OP. A 7* claire wouldn't be as good as 7* juggs atleast for bgs. So it's a W for us.
The blunders in the poll imo is Colossus over toad.
Yeah, not arguing there, claire is good and all but juggs is amazing. And yet people think kabam is some supervillain genius figure constantly sabotaging the players. Sometimes, kabam just fumbles.
Also, toad would be a perfect 7*, he's got all the typical mutant traits like regen and prowess, a tricky defender and a great skill counter. We've already gotten some champs from the polls like longshot, diablo, omega sentinel. Toad might be released soon too.
No one has ever spent more time to do less than the balance team. Month after month, they perform exhaustive, eye-watering analysis only to decide, “Looks good to us.”
Because they are called the Hercules Prevention team after all
You say this but they werent even able to catch Juggs and Kate when it was their time to be evaluated. Theyre just worthless
The balance team even gave community an opportunity to get 7* kate But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮
And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
Those Twitter bots are heroes, and we should be grateful for their service.
I don't have time to read all 26 pages of this thread but I read a lot of it and since you tagged me I will say what I know. The thread's title answers its own question, Serpent really isn't getting rebalanced.
I had no idea whether or not he would be rebalanced until I read the forum post. I could have asked our balance team but I didn't bother. Why? Because I was agnostic to the results. If they had said he was too strong and needed to be rebalanced, I would have trusted them. They concluded he is having the meta impact that was intended, and I trust them.
So for me now it's about getting better fighting him and strategizing in Battlegrounds based on the meta (either ban him or include enough counters that I can deal with him). Right now I have been banning him but I just duped my Luke yesterday so I might start leaving him open to see if it gives me an advantage.
I don't really think there is anything else for me to say. The balance post is the team's official position.
I appreciate the response but I do think this is a very bad response.
You're not being agnostic to the the results, that's not how being agnostic works. You're just ignoring them all the while showing a lack of knowledge on the matter at hand.
You banning Serpent everytime in Battlegrounds is ok. But when the best counter to a champion for everybody becomes banning him in BGs, there is a serious problem with that said champion. I don't believe in the "Take counters for him" excuse, in BGs, there are other champs we have to worry about and take counters for.
On the other end, I'll gladly say that players are also part of the problem, at least in the BGs mode. There are a lot of people that have ranked up and placed him in their roster just to have that auto-win and they aren't willing to ban him because having him basically gives you an auto-win and players won't give this up so they find themselves not banning him and having to face him.
But when you talk about The Serpent and his impact on the game, we should be talking about how he impacts every game mode. Yes, the solution in BGs is pretty straightforward, we can ban him but we can't ban him in arenas, we can't ban him in quests, we can't ban him in AW. There is an argument to be made that in questing, we can chose our champions so that doesn't really pose a real problem.
But in Arenas, we don't have that luxury of choosing our champions based on what champions we will fight. That is a problem when you farm and find yourself against Serpent which means you basically have to win you 2 other fights or you'll lose your streak and that sometimes happen.
And in AW, it's not a given that you'll be able to take a Serpent counter, especially because you have to take champs to do you lane and do some MB. At the highest level, Alliances will communicate and they have enough skill and knowledge to have at least 1 Serpent counter in every group and even then, with all the nodes buffing him, he still is a nightmare to deal with. But on lower levels, players sometimes have to face defensive strategies that forces players to use their 3 roster spots just to do one lane. To add to this, players aren't as good skill-wise or knowledgeable about the game, some players have counters they could take but since they don't think they're good players and they can't manage to fight some champs, they shy away from fighting them which leaves their group with less players thus champions that could fight The Serpent (or others difficult champions).
That is what you're ignoring (and not being agnostic) because you don't even go to the length to get some information on this when given your role and position in the MCOC community, you should be trying to get this info.
And you have shown a lack of knowledge on this issue by bringing up Luke Cage like he was a good counter to Serpent. Yes, Luke Cage, with his Exhaustion debuffs can reduce Ability Power Rate by 25% for each debuffs so he could counter The Serpent's power gain but The Serpent can't have his APR reduced by more than 50% by non-Mystic champions. Yes, Luke Cage, with his Concussion debuffs is able to reduce AA by up to 75% but The Serpent gains Culforce charges when a buff is prevented by AAR (which counter AAR thus Neutralize) and his Death Immunity buff can't be prevented by AAR. Yes, Luke Cage, can inflict a Stun after his SP1 if the opponent has a Concussion debuff on him but The Serpent is immune to Stun during his opponent Special Attacks. Yes, Luke Cage can trigger an Indestructible passive that can work against SP3 if he's awakened but The Serpent gains a Power Gain buff that gives him 2 bars of power if his SP3 did 0 damage, this means that, combined with his Power Gain Buff and the Power Gain from triggering his Death Immunity, he can just SP3 chain you. Yes, Luke Cage has increased Block Proficiency when his Indestructible is on cooldown and a -30% damage reduction against physical projectiles but the Serpent has access to Fury buffs, Fury passives, Pierce passive, Attack Rating bonus for each Culforce charges depending on how close his opponent is to the wall, Burst of Energy Damage if you have your back to the wall.
And that is also the problem with The Serpent, his kit makes it so that even if you think outside the box to counter him, you just can't. All the counters that could/should work well against him just don't work as well as they should because he just cancels them, he (strongly) mitigates their abilities and they're sometimes not strong enough offensively to used and/or ranked up (Kindred, Mephisto, Loki, Mojo, etc..). There is nothing that can't be done with our skills, our knowledge or our outside the box thinking against him. And that's without talking about all the nodes he can benefit from and there are plenty of them.
I get that making a very strong (and even owerpowered) defensive champion has a positive impact for Kabam in terms of their revenues, even more with game modes like AWs and BGs. There are players that will pay some hefty sums to get them and when their hard counters come out, those same players will pay for them. There is more profit doing that, I'm pretty sure NTW sold more than Mantis because she came out after Bullseye when Mantis came out before champs like Leader and Photon that made her more relevant as a champion and I'm okay with that because let's not kid ourselves, that is what Kabam wanted with Serpent, this the "impact", the "performance" they wanted and the rebalance team talked about when saying The Serpent won't be nerfed.
But with Serpent, what I'm worried about is that he is another door opened on our way to some big power creep because the champion that will hard counter him will have to get some pretty big base stats as well as some new abilities that won't be countered (right away) and will need Kabam to make other strong Cosmic defenders. Serpent is way too overpowered as a defender and will probably take an overpowered counter and instead balancing the meta by nerfing a champ, the devs will have to balance the game constantly by releasing more complex and overpowered champs.
Great comment, in depth analysis and respectful attempt to open dialogue with Kabam. And its gonna be ignored just like every other honest attempt at discussing Serpents balance. Gotta love it
The absolute absence of any response on a thread like this really is something else. I’m baffled that nobody is even willing to put out a statement on this. Not agreement necessarily but just a statement.
In past instances we at least got that much respect and acknowledgement.
I bet if Kabam miike was here, he would've responded, warned, banned and closed this thread already 😭 Miss him.
I also miss him and Jax as well, forums have been somewhat quiet without them
Other thread got closed so I couldn't post my reply lol There are four things that make Serpent such a menace in BGs and it's not about getting good: 1. Draft RNG, unlike war you don't get to pick what you want to use. 2. You need a strong enough counter otherwise you will lose no matter what you do, the pool of champs is pretty small due to this 3. BGs metas make the pool of champs even smaller than it already is, a perfect example of this will be crit me next season where Kushala Werewolf Shathra Wiccan etc (some of his best counters) will be completely and utterly useless. 4. Time matters in BGs, Serpent as it stands not only is a hard defender but an absolute tank, unless you get lucky with Tigra it's always a +55 sec fight.
I really don't understand how anyone could even try to refute any of this, it's not about getting good it's the fact that Serpent turns BGs into a game of "who drafts who, skill doesn't matter". That right there will be the death of BGs if that's the direction they want to take with tough defenders.
Comments
Woops, did not mean to drop that. Ignore that one please
But you also refuse to name those "some." 🤗
🤣
So everytime Kabam mods sign here they'll have to take a deep sigh.
Miss him.
Players will not stop talking about the biggest goof moment in MCoC history and that's final.
Complaining about this thread will not alter the outcome.
Eventually this thread will die down as we get better and more threads to comment on.
JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER THREAD before and after this.
(You think I'm copying you but we just have same writing behaviour)
But Twitter bots picked 7* shangchi over her 🤮
And now she will won't be 7* for long time.
Only if youtubers hyped the real powerhouses instead of dummy ones like negasonic
The funny thing is, if claire wasn't removed from the poll, She would be the winner instead of juggs. While claire is great, She is nowhere near to juggs in bgs. Juggernaut is Too Op in bgs He almost always gets banned in high tier ones. Serpent got fear debuff mainly to shut him down
Basically they thought claire would be too OP but it's actually juggs who ended up being a OP. A 7* claire wouldn't be as good as 7* juggs atleast for bgs. So it's a W for us.
The blunders in the poll imo is Colossus over toad.
Also, toad would be a perfect 7*, he's got all the typical mutant traits like regen and prowess, a tricky defender and a great skill counter. We've already gotten some champs from the polls like longshot, diablo, omega sentinel. Toad might be released soon too.
You're not being agnostic to the the results, that's not how being agnostic works. You're just ignoring them all the while showing a lack of knowledge on the matter at hand.
You banning Serpent everytime in Battlegrounds is ok. But when the best counter to a champion for everybody becomes banning him in BGs, there is a serious problem with that said champion. I don't believe in the "Take counters for him" excuse, in BGs, there are other champs we have to worry about and take counters for.
On the other end, I'll gladly say that players are also part of the problem, at least in the BGs mode. There are a lot of people that have ranked up and placed him in their roster just to have that auto-win and they aren't willing to ban him because having him basically gives you an auto-win and players won't give this up so they find themselves not banning him and having to face him.
But when you talk about The Serpent and his impact on the game, we should be talking about how he impacts every game mode.
Yes, the solution in BGs is pretty straightforward, we can ban him but we can't ban him in arenas, we can't ban him in quests, we can't ban him in AW.
There is an argument to be made that in questing, we can chose our champions so that doesn't really pose a real problem.
But in Arenas, we don't have that luxury of choosing our champions based on what champions we will fight. That is a problem when you farm and find yourself against Serpent which means you basically have to win you 2 other fights or you'll lose your streak and that sometimes happen.
And in AW, it's not a given that you'll be able to take a Serpent counter, especially because you have to take champs to do you lane and do some MB. At the highest level, Alliances will communicate and they have enough skill and knowledge to have at least 1 Serpent counter in every group and even then, with all the nodes buffing him, he still is a nightmare to deal with.
But on lower levels, players sometimes have to face defensive strategies that forces players to use their 3 roster spots just to do one lane. To add to this, players aren't as good skill-wise or knowledgeable about the game, some players have counters they could take but since they don't think they're good players and they can't manage to fight some champs, they shy away from fighting them which leaves their group with less players thus champions that could fight The Serpent (or others difficult champions).
That is what you're ignoring (and not being agnostic) because you don't even go to the length to get some information on this when given your role and position in the MCOC community, you should be trying to get this info.
And you have shown a lack of knowledge on this issue by bringing up Luke Cage like he was a good counter to Serpent.
Yes, Luke Cage, with his Exhaustion debuffs can reduce Ability Power Rate by 25% for each debuffs so he could counter The Serpent's power gain but The Serpent can't have his APR reduced by more than 50% by non-Mystic champions.
Yes, Luke Cage, with his Concussion debuffs is able to reduce AA by up to 75% but The Serpent gains Culforce charges when a buff is prevented by AAR (which counter AAR thus Neutralize) and his Death Immunity buff can't be prevented by AAR.
Yes, Luke Cage, can inflict a Stun after his SP1 if the opponent has a Concussion debuff on him but The Serpent is immune to Stun during his opponent Special Attacks.
Yes, Luke Cage can trigger an Indestructible passive that can work against SP3 if he's awakened but The Serpent gains a Power Gain buff that gives him 2 bars of power if his SP3 did 0 damage, this means that, combined with his Power Gain Buff and the Power Gain from triggering his Death Immunity, he can just SP3 chain you.
Yes, Luke Cage has increased Block Proficiency when his Indestructible is on cooldown and a -30% damage reduction against physical projectiles but the Serpent has access to Fury buffs, Fury passives, Pierce passive, Attack Rating bonus for each Culforce charges depending on how close his opponent is to the wall, Burst of Energy Damage if you have your back to the wall.
And that is also the problem with The Serpent, his kit makes it so that even if you think outside the box to counter him, you just can't. All the counters that could/should work well against him just don't work as well as they should because he just cancels them, he (strongly) mitigates their abilities and they're sometimes not strong enough offensively to used and/or ranked up (Kindred, Mephisto, Loki, Mojo, etc..). There is nothing that can't be done with our skills, our knowledge or our outside the box thinking against him.
And that's without talking about all the nodes he can benefit from and there are plenty of them.
I get that making a very strong (and even owerpowered) defensive champion has a positive impact for Kabam in terms of their revenues, even more with game modes like AWs and BGs.
There are players that will pay some hefty sums to get them and when their hard counters come out, those same players will pay for them.
There is more profit doing that, I'm pretty sure NTW sold more than Mantis because she came out after Bullseye when Mantis came out before champs like Leader and Photon that made her more relevant as a champion and I'm okay with that because let's not kid ourselves, that is what Kabam wanted with Serpent, this the "impact", the "performance" they wanted and the rebalance team talked about when saying The Serpent won't be nerfed.
But with Serpent, what I'm worried about is that he is another door opened on our way to some big power creep because the champion that will hard counter him will have to get some pretty big base stats as well as some new abilities that won't be countered (right away) and will need Kabam to make other strong Cosmic defenders.
Serpent is way too overpowered as a defender and will probably take an overpowered counter and instead balancing the meta by nerfing a champ, the devs will have to balance the game constantly by releasing more complex and overpowered champs.
There are four things that make Serpent such a menace in BGs and it's not about getting good:
1. Draft RNG, unlike war you don't get to pick what you want to use.
2. You need a strong enough counter otherwise you will lose no matter what you do, the pool of champs is pretty small due to this
3. BGs metas make the pool of champs even smaller than it already is, a perfect example of this will be crit me next season where Kushala Werewolf Shathra Wiccan etc (some of his best counters) will be completely and utterly useless.
4. Time matters in BGs, Serpent as it stands not only is a hard defender but an absolute tank, unless you get lucky with Tigra it's always a +55 sec fight.
I really don't understand how anyone could even try to refute any of this, it's not about getting good it's the fact that Serpent turns BGs into a game of "who drafts who, skill doesn't matter". That right there will be the death of BGs if that's the direction they want to take with tough defenders.