Kingpin

Christian9764

hi , from the next update the ability reduction given post l1 by the degeneration will no longer be cumulative so the maximum ability reduction of kingpin will be 65%, why this change after almost 4 years from the kingpin buff? It would therefore result in a silent nerf of the character, wouldn't it have been better to leave things as they are now?

EgyptOverseer

Wait until they decide that other AAR reducing characters should get nerfed too, like Archangel.

They have the worst tactic setup in AW since Crush, not rebalancing absolutely broken defenders like Serpent, and now also nerfing champs that have almost nothing else on their kit.

New champs have 400 pages of abilities and interactions and don't get nerfed, older champs have a single page and still get nerfed.

Kabam is killing attackers, and releasing OP defenders as a priority. What matters is your stash being depleted and you using your units for all content. Smells like 12.0 all over again.

ShodaiHighkage

Oh this is worse than the shocker nerf. Nothing in the wording of kingpin's kit indicates that the debuff doesn't stack. It's impossible to refresh the debuff, and it's not the greatest damage rotation for KP, so spamming SP1 to reduce the AAR past 65% only has a short window and significantly reduced his damage output.

I very much look forward to the rankdown tickets from this nerf, because this isn't a bug when the kit reads as any other in which debuffs can stack. This 100% is a nerf. A change to a character's kit is a nerf, not a bug fix.

Squidopus

I get being upset about this bug fix but I don’t think you know what “silent” means. If this were a “silent” nerf you wouldn’t know about it before the nerf even released. It’s in the patch notes, it’s an announced change, so if it’s a nerf it’s not a silent one.

Squidopus

ShodaiHighkage said:

Oh this is worse than the shocker nerf. Nothing in the wording of kingpin's kit indicates that the debuff doesn't stack. It's impossible to refresh the debuff, and it's not the greatest damage rotation for KP, so spamming SP1 to reduce the AAR past 65% only has a short window and significantly reduced his damage output.

I very much look forward to the rankdown tickets from this nerf, because this isn't a bug when the kit reads as any other in which debuffs can stack. This 100% is a nerf. A change to a character's kit is a nerf, not a bug fix.

In case you weren’t aware because your comment sorta reads like it, Kingpin’s degen is not receiving a stack limit. You can still stack 2, 3, however many degen debuffs you can manage. The bug fix just changes the additional DAAR effect of Kingpin’s personal degen to not stack if you have multiple copies of the degen.

Demonzfyre

ShodaiHighkage said:

Oh this is worse than the shocker nerf. Nothing in the wording of kingpin's kit indicates that the debuff doesn't stack. It's impossible to refresh the debuff, and it's not the greatest damage rotation for KP, so spamming SP1 to reduce the AAR past 65% only has a short window and significantly reduced his damage output.

I very much look forward to the rankdown tickets from this nerf, because this isn't a bug when the kit reads as any other in which debuffs can stack. This 100% is a nerf. A change to a character's kit is a nerf, not a bug fix.

Nothing in the kit says it does stack. Shocker wasn't nerfed. Kingpin isn't nerfed either.

Demonzfyre

Christian9764 said:

hi , from the next update the ability reduction given post l1 by the degeneration will no longer be cumulative so the maximum ability reduction of kingpin will be 65%, why this change after almost 4 years from the kingpin buff? It would therefore result in a silent nerf of the character, wouldn't it have been better to leave things as they are now?

How exactly is it "silent"?

ShodaiHighkage

Oh this is worse than the shocker nerf. Nothing in the wording of kingpin's kit indicates that the debuff doesn't stack. It's impossible to refresh the debuff, and it's not the greatest damage rotation for KP, so spamming SP1 to reduce the AAR past 65% only has a short window and significantly reduced his damage output.

I very much look forward to the rankdown tickets from this nerf, because this isn't a bug when the kit reads as any other in which debuffs can stack. This 100% is a nerf. A change to a character's kit is a nerf, not a bug fix.

Squidopus said:

ShodaiHighkage said:

Oh this is worse than the shocker nerf. Nothing in the wording of kingpin's kit indicates that the debuff doesn't stack. It's impossible to refresh the debuff, and it's not the greatest damage rotation for KP, so spamming SP1 to reduce the AAR past 65% only has a short window and significantly reduced his damage output.

I very much look forward to the rankdown tickets from this nerf, because this isn't a bug when the kit reads as any other in which debuffs can stack. This 100% is a nerf. A change to a character's kit is a nerf, not a bug fix.

In case you weren’t aware because your comment sorta reads like it, Kingpin’s degen is not receiving a stack limit. You can still stack 2, 3, however many degen debuffs you can manage. The bug fix just changes the additional DAAR effect of Kingpin’s personal degen to not stack if you have multiple copies of the degen.

I didn't think I'd need to fill in the blanks, but by stack limit, I meant the debuff and its subsequent effects. Not just the debuff itself. If the ability accuracy reduction is what got nerfed, why are you fixated on semantics?

His value goes down dramatically with this nerf/change to his kit. That's not up for debate. The only thing that is, is kabam's decision to call this a bug fix and not a nerf.

ShodaiHighkage

Demonzfyre said:

ShodaiHighkage said:

Oh this is worse than the shocker nerf. Nothing in the wording of kingpin's kit indicates that the debuff doesn't stack. It's impossible to refresh the debuff, and it's not the greatest damage rotation for KP, so spamming SP1 to reduce the AAR past 65% only has a short window and significantly reduced his damage output.

I very much look forward to the rankdown tickets from this nerf, because this isn't a bug when the kit reads as any other in which debuffs can stack. This 100% is a nerf. A change to a character's kit is a nerf, not a bug fix.

Nothing in the kit says it does stack. Shocker wasn't nerfed. Kingpin isn't nerfed either.

Other AAR champs will specify a cap/ceiling. Black cat, for example. On those where there is no cap for the AAR, it's not explicitly stated. That's how the language works. You don't list a cap if it's non-existent. You list one if it is. The kit never said 65% AAR at a maximum, as is specified with other champs where there was a clear indication of a cap.

Squidopus

ShodaiHighkage said:

Oh this is worse than the shocker nerf. Nothing in the wording of kingpin's kit indicates that the debuff doesn't stack. It's impossible to refresh the debuff, and it's not the greatest damage rotation for KP, so spamming SP1 to reduce the AAR past 65% only has a short window and significantly reduced his damage output.

I very much look forward to the rankdown tickets from this nerf, because this isn't a bug when the kit reads as any other in which debuffs can stack. This 100% is a nerf. A change to a character's kit is a nerf, not a bug fix.

Squidopus said:

ShodaiHighkage said:

Oh this is worse than the shocker nerf. Nothing in the wording of kingpin's kit indicates that the debuff doesn't stack. It's impossible to refresh the debuff, and it's not the greatest damage rotation for KP, so spamming SP1 to reduce the AAR past 65% only has a short window and significantly reduced his damage output.

I very much look forward to the rankdown tickets from this nerf, because this isn't a bug when the kit reads as any other in which debuffs can stack. This 100% is a nerf. A change to a character's kit is a nerf, not a bug fix.

In case you weren’t aware because your comment sorta reads like it, Kingpin’s degen is not receiving a stack limit. You can still stack 2, 3, however many degen debuffs you can manage. The bug fix just changes the additional DAAR effect of Kingpin’s personal degen to not stack if you have multiple copies of the degen.

I didn't think I'd need to fill in the blanks, but by stack limit, I meant the debuff and its subsequent effects. Not just the debuff itself. If the ability accuracy reduction is what got nerfed, why are you fixated on semantics?

His value goes down dramatically with this nerf/change to his kit. That's not up for debate. The only thing that is, is kabam's decision to call this a bug fix and not a nerf.

Idk what you’re getting at here with the aggressiveness, you stated in your comment that Kingpin’s debuff was getting a stack limit and I clarified that that’s not correct in a formal manner because I thought perhaps you didn’t know what the change was. It’s not semantics, stating Kingpin’s (degen) debuff was getting a stack limit is just an incorrect statement and I didn’t attribute any malice to your comment. I already commented a few times in the main thread that I disagree with Kabam’s decision here so I’m not even sure why you think I’m trying to put you down or whatever.

WednesdayLength

There is nothing in kingpins kit that suggests the effect stacks. It's possible to he annoyed at it without ignoring facts

Demonzfyre

ShodaiHighkage said:

Demonzfyre said:

ShodaiHighkage said:

Oh this is worse than the shocker nerf. Nothing in the wording of kingpin's kit indicates that the debuff doesn't stack. It's impossible to refresh the debuff, and it's not the greatest damage rotation for KP, so spamming SP1 to reduce the AAR past 65% only has a short window and significantly reduced his damage output.

I very much look forward to the rankdown tickets from this nerf, because this isn't a bug when the kit reads as any other in which debuffs can stack. This 100% is a nerf. A change to a character's kit is a nerf, not a bug fix.

Nothing in the kit says it does stack. Shocker wasn't nerfed. Kingpin isn't nerfed either.

Other AAR champs will specify a cap/ceiling. Black cat, for example. On those where there is no cap for the AAR, it's not explicitly stated. That's how the language works. You don't list a cap if it's non-existent. You list one if it is. The kit never said 65% AAR at a maximum, as is specified with other champs where there was a clear indication of a cap.

The same can be said for the other way around. Like with Civil Warrior, it specifically states that for each armor up, bleed and poison ability accuracy reduce by 25%. We read what we want to read in these situations.

You don't read Kingpins kit and say "if I put 2 degens on him, my opponents attack rating goes to zero" right? I know the bug fix was for his AAR but none of you knew that really before. And if you thought the AAR was stacking, why didn't you think the loss of attack rating should have stacked as well? It's part of the same degen.

The wording is vague yes, but seeing that the attack rating never drops to zero in fights would lead one to believe the stats don't stack.