Who was the best attacker this year before him, Prowler? Or BRB?
Imo White Tiger is still the best. And then BRB (definitely him if we’re talking longform) then probably Prowler
Damn so prowler isnt anything special? I saw a lot of hype for him and people r3 him
I have mine r3 unduped (regretted it initially but it's kinda ehh now). He's just a 1 Sp2 typa guy, his damage isn't really MIND BLOWING but it's good at the rate in which you can access it which is just get to your Sp2 and make sure the AI doesn't throw special early For BG healthpools at r3 he's okay but at r3 for 500k+ he's a lil disappointing in comparison for my other r3's.
I definitely think he's a better attacker than tiger but I have a one sided beef with him cos people were over hyping him and telling me I was wrong for not being impressed with him when I initially r3'd him so any and all Prowler whackings are tolerated here
White tiger better than brb in bgs and war counter more fights and doing fights faster, prowler counters more fights than brb and doesn’t have the speed of prowler, and even iron heart can out speed him in war and bgs plus she counters more
Good to see so many positive reviews. I watched DLL’s deep dive the other day and I thought he was pretty lukewarm on Nefaria. Not negative, but he had a lot to say about using his evade mechanic to access the high end dmg.
How? Isn't his damage bad if you can't evade? I even remember DLL stating if you can't evade you're not going to get the damage.
You don’t need the evade if the defender triggers either power gain or regeneration. Either will passively ramp him up.
I still don't see how he could deal any meaningful amount of damage with all that dread reducing all his sources of damage by 60%.
He won’t nuke him down but he’ll be one of safest options. He gets extra physical resistance and can steal some healing. And I don’t think the dread will slow him down all that much. From my testing so far a lot of his damage comes from the sp2 furries, even his basic attacks hit very hard when they active. I’ll see if I can find a serpent in BG to test it out.
How? Isn't his damage bad if you can't evade? I even remember DLL stating if you can't evade you're not going to get the damage.
You don’t need the evade if the defender triggers either power gain or regeneration. Either will passively ramp him up.
I still don't see how he could deal any meaningful amount of damage with all that dread reducing all his sources of damage by 60%.
He won’t nuke him down but he’ll be one of safest options. He gets extra physical resistance and can steal some healing. And I don’t think the dread will slow him down all that much. From my testing so far a lot of his damage comes from the sp2 furries, even his basic attacks hit very hard when they active. I’ll see if I can find a serpent in BG to test it out.
It will because of the crit penetration reduction, how hard do non-crits deal with the furies? Cause the crits will basically be dealing 60% less damage due to dread and the burst will be almost non-existent. To put thing into perspective Man-Thing's kit reduces crit penetration by 100% (0 bonus crit damage), Serpent reduces it by 60% it's still a lot.
How? Isn't his damage bad if you can't evade? I even remember DLL stating if you can't evade you're not going to get the damage.
You don’t need the evade if the defender triggers either power gain or regeneration. Either will passively ramp him up.
I still don't see how he could deal any meaningful amount of damage with all that dread reducing all his sources of damage by 60%.
He won’t nuke him down but he’ll be one of safest options. He gets extra physical resistance and can steal some healing. And I don’t think the dread will slow him down all that much. From my testing so far a lot of his damage comes from the sp2 furries, even his basic attacks hit very hard when they active. I’ll see if I can find a serpent in BG to test it out.
It will because of the crit penetration reduction, how hard do non-crits deal with the furies? Cause the crits will basically be dealing 60% less damage due to dread and the burst will be almost non-existent. To put thing into perspective Man-Thing's kit reduces crit penetration by 100% (0 bonus crit damage), Serpent reduces it by 60% it's still a lot.
I don’t believe that’s how Serpent’s crit penetration works. Crit penetration is just the amount of armor and resistances that a crit ignores. You still get the full benefit of your crit damage rating, your crits are just less efficient at bypassing armor. Man-thing, meanwhile, just straight-up blocks bonus crit damage, which is entirely different from crit penetration. As its champion spotlight notes, this means that your crits deal the same damage as a noncrit at base but your crits against Man-thing can still technically deal extra damage if it has armor/resistances, since cries will bypass most of it.
How? Isn't his damage bad if you can't evade? I even remember DLL stating if you can't evade you're not going to get the damage.
You don’t need the evade if the defender triggers either power gain or regeneration. Either will passively ramp him up.
I still don't see how he could deal any meaningful amount of damage with all that dread reducing all his sources of damage by 60%.
He won’t nuke him down but he’ll be one of safest options. He gets extra physical resistance and can steal some healing. And I don’t think the dread will slow him down all that much. From my testing so far a lot of his damage comes from the sp2 furries, even his basic attacks hit very hard when they active. I’ll see if I can find a serpent in BG to test it out.
It will because of the crit penetration reduction, how hard do non-crits deal with the furies? Cause the crits will basically be dealing 60% less damage due to dread and the burst will be almost non-existent. To put thing into perspective Man-Thing's kit reduces crit penetration by 100% (0 bonus crit damage), Serpent reduces it by 60% it's still a lot.
I don’t believe that’s how Serpent’s crit penetration works. Crit penetration is just the amount of armor and resistances that a crit ignores. You still get the full benefit of your crit damage rating, your crits are just less efficient at bypassing armor. Man-thing, meanwhile, just straight-up blocks bonus crit damage, which is entirely different from crit penetration. As its champion spotlight notes, this means that your crits deal the same damage as a noncrit at base but your crits against Man-thing can still technically deal extra damage if it has armor/resistances, since cries will bypass most of it.
Why does r6 sig 200 Red Guardian barely land 5k-6k heavy crits against him then? I tried Red Guardian against Serpent once and it 100% felt like I was fighting Man-Thing, the bonus crit damage was insignificant. Someone said that's how crit penetration works and based on my own experience so far, that seems to be the case regardless of wording, wording is always weird in this game.
Basically while Serpent’s base armor and resistance up passive can’t be bypassed effectively by crits due to the crit penetration reduction, crits still deal a bunch of bonus damage as you’d expect; your crit damage rating is very relevant for squeezing out as much damage as possible in the matchup. Man-thing, meanwhile, has a different mechanic where he ignores crit damage rating; whether your champ has a crit damage rating of 0, 1000, or 10000, your crit deals the exact same damage regardless.
How? Isn't his damage bad if you can't evade? I even remember DLL stating if you can't evade you're not going to get the damage.
You don’t need the evade if the defender triggers either power gain or regeneration. Either will passively ramp him up.
I still don't see how he could deal any meaningful amount of damage with all that dread reducing all his sources of damage by 60%.
He won’t nuke him down but he’ll be one of safest options. He gets extra physical resistance and can steal some healing. And I don’t think the dread will slow him down all that much. From my testing so far a lot of his damage comes from the sp2 furries, even his basic attacks hit very hard when they active. I’ll see if I can find a serpent in BG to test it out.
It will because of the crit penetration reduction, how hard do non-crits deal with the furies? Cause the crits will basically be dealing 60% less damage due to dread and the burst will be almost non-existent. To put thing into perspective Man-Thing's kit reduces crit penetration by 100% (0 bonus crit damage), Serpent reduces it by 60% it's still a lot.
I don’t believe that’s how Serpent’s crit penetration works. Crit penetration is just the amount of armor and resistances that a crit ignores. You still get the full benefit of your crit damage rating, your crits are just less efficient at bypassing armor. Man-thing, meanwhile, just straight-up blocks bonus crit damage, which is entirely different from crit penetration. As its champion spotlight notes, this means that your crits deal the same damage as a noncrit at base but your crits against Man-thing can still technically deal extra damage if it has armor/resistances, since cries will bypass most of it.
Why does r6 sig 200 Red Guardian barely land 5k-6k heavy crits against him then? I tried Red Guardian against Serpent once and it 100% felt like I was fighting Man-Thing, the bonus crit damage was insignificant. Someone said that's how crit penetration works and based on my own experience so far, that seems to be the case regardless of wording, wording is always weird in this game.
It’s probably exactly because Serpent has quite a lot of armor and resistances. Crits bypassing those carry the damage a lot in most matchups, but it just doesn’t work against Serpent. You should find that your crits are still dealing much more damage against Serpent than non-crits, the difference is just much less pronounced.
This is the in-game description of what crit penetration does. It doesn’t modify crit damage explicitly, it just neuters the secondary effect of bypassing armor and such.
This is the in-game description of what crit penetration does. It doesn’t modify crit damage explicitly, it just neuters the secondary effect of bypassing armor and such.
I see, fair enough, I still don't think Nefaria will be viable in BGs though cause of dread regardless of the wording.
How? Isn't his damage bad if you can't evade? I even remember DLL stating if you can't evade you're not going to get the damage.
You don’t need the evade if the defender triggers either power gain or regeneration. Either will passively ramp him up.
I still don't see how he could deal any meaningful amount of damage with all that dread reducing all his sources of damage by 60%.
He won’t nuke him down but he’ll be one of safest options. He gets extra physical resistance and can steal some healing. And I don’t think the dread will slow him down all that much. From my testing so far a lot of his damage comes from the sp2 furries, even his basic attacks hit very hard when they active. I’ll see if I can find a serpent in BG to test it out.
It will because of the crit penetration reduction, how hard do non-crits deal with the furies? Cause the crits will basically be dealing 60% less damage due to dread and the burst will be almost non-existent. To put thing into perspective Man-Thing's kit reduces crit penetration by 100% (0 bonus crit damage), Serpent reduces it by 60% it's still a lot.
I don’t believe that’s how Serpent’s crit penetration works. Crit penetration is just the amount of armor and resistances that a crit ignores. You still get the full benefit of your crit damage rating, your crits are just less efficient at bypassing armor. Man-thing, meanwhile, just straight-up blocks bonus crit damage, which is entirely different from crit penetration. As its champion spotlight notes, this means that your crits deal the same damage as a noncrit at base but your crits against Man-thing can still technically deal extra damage if it has armor/resistances, since cries will bypass most of it.
Why does r6 sig 200 Red Guardian barely land 5k-6k heavy crits against him then? I tried Red Guardian against Serpent once and it 100% felt like I was fighting Man-Thing, the bonus crit damage was insignificant. Someone said that's how crit penetration works and based on my own experience so far, that seems to be the case regardless of wording, wording is always weird in this game.
Squidopus is right, I went back and watched the DLL Serpent spotlight with context and he discusses it in detail. Normal crits bypass 80% of armor and resistance. Serpents dread reduce that by a flat 20% each so at 3 dread your crits only bypass 20% of his armor and resistance instead of the normal 80%. You still deal bonus crit damage but it’s gonna feel weaker than normal crits against other defenders.
This is the in-game description of what crit penetration does. It doesn’t modify crit damage explicitly, it just neuters the secondary effect of bypassing armor and such.
I see, fair enough, I still don't think Nefaria will be viable in BGs though cause of dread regardless of the wording.
I haven’t been able to get a serpent match up but overall Nefaria doesn’t feel super quick for BG regardless, he won’t be a first choice counter but he’ll be a nice back up option if you don’t pick a better option. And if you can place a defender that causes chip damage like attuma you’ll probably win since he usually finishes at full Hp with his sig ability.
This is the in-game description of what crit penetration does. It doesn’t modify crit damage explicitly, it just neuters the secondary effect of bypassing armor and such.
I see, fair enough, I still don't think Nefaria will be viable in BGs though cause of dread regardless of the wording.
It’s definitely fair to be skeptical of someone spouting things without proof, but I’m a woman of science and wanted something that would demonstrate the difference clearly and definitively. I just now found a good way to do that via true damage, which removes armor and resistances from the equation. Here’s some photos of Adam Warlock, who has a very convenient true damage buff:
Non-crit vs crit damage against King Groot (as a baseline).
Same thing vs. Serpent. Despite the reduced crit penetration, the hit damage is nearly identical to King Groot in both instances.
Now vs. Man-thing. The non-crit damage is roughly the same as the other two (minus class disadvantage of course) but the crit damage is clearly the same as non-crit, markedly different from the King Groot and Serpent scenarios.
Hopefully that’s enough to show without a doubt that there’s different mechanics here.
Lol this turned from a Nefaria thread to a Serpent thread
How nefarious
Lol it was bound to happen when we found out Nefaria countered regen and power gain, people are really holding out hope that Nefaria will be a decent enough counter. I don’t have him so I can’t add to that discussion unfortunately, I’m leaving that part to the rest of y’all to figure out.
This is the in-game description of what crit penetration does. It doesn’t modify crit damage explicitly, it just neuters the secondary effect of bypassing armor and such.
I see, fair enough, I still don't think Nefaria will be viable in BGs though cause of dread regardless of the wording.
It’s definitely fair to be skeptical of someone spouting things without proof, but I’m a woman of science and wanted something that would demonstrate the difference clearly and definitively. I just now found a good way to do that via true damage, which removes armor and resistances from the equation. Here’s some photos of Adam Warlock, who has a very convenient true damage buff:
Non-crit vs crit damage against King Groot (as a baseline).
Same thing vs. Serpent. Despite the reduced crit penetration, the hit damage is nearly identical to King Groot in both instances.
Now vs. Man-thing. The non-crit damage is roughly the same as the other two (minus class disadvantage of course) but the crit damage is clearly the same as non-crit, markedly different from the King Groot and Serpent scenarios.
Hopefully that’s enough to show without a doubt that there’s different mechanics here.
That's good to know then, I stand corrected on that matter lol. The skeptical part was about Nefaria being viable in BGs for Serpent though, not the way crit penetration and all that works although yes I was wrong about that.
This is the in-game description of what crit penetration does. It doesn’t modify crit damage explicitly, it just neuters the secondary effect of bypassing armor and such.
I see, fair enough, I still don't think Nefaria will be viable in BGs though cause of dread regardless of the wording.
I haven’t been able to get a serpent match up but overall Nefaria doesn’t feel super quick for BG regardless, he won’t be a first choice counter but he’ll be a nice back up option if you don’t pick a better option. And if you can place a defender that causes chip damage like attuma you’ll probably win since he usually finishes at full Hp with his sig ability.
That's a valid argument, excited to see those matchups nonetheless. If you do get a few in post them here I'm 100% interested in seeing what he's capable of before I pick up the 6* and r6 sig 200.
Comments
To put thing into perspective Man-Thing's kit reduces crit penetration by 100% (0 bonus crit damage), Serpent reduces it by 60% it's still a lot.
Someone said that's how crit penetration works and based on my own experience so far, that seems to be the case regardless of wording, wording is always weird in this game.
This is the in-game description of what crit penetration does. It doesn’t modify crit damage explicitly, it just neuters the secondary effect of bypassing armor and such.
Non-crit vs crit damage against King Groot (as a baseline).
Same thing vs. Serpent. Despite the reduced crit penetration, the hit damage is nearly identical to King Groot in both instances.
Now vs. Man-thing. The non-crit damage is roughly the same as the other two (minus class disadvantage of course) but the crit damage is clearly the same as non-crit, markedly different from the King Groot and Serpent scenarios.
Hopefully that’s enough to show without a doubt that there’s different mechanics here.
How nefarious
The skeptical part was about Nefaria being viable in BGs for Serpent though, not the way crit penetration and all that works although yes I was wrong about that.
He’ll be good for content but won’t last in people’s decks.
But if you've got it unlocked, you've probably put a couple of points into your War Defenders, just to mess with people (I know I have...😉).
So you'll run into to it in War, more than most other areas of the game.