Kabam is one of the most greedy dev studios that I have ever seen, to the point it hurt the game

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  • ControversyControversy Member Posts: 9
    Flavyjay said:

    I left MCOC due to it's difficulty for 3 or 2+ years, and I came back for it's 10 years anniversary after 2 weeks of constant play and upkeep I can safely say Kabam is Too greedy, and this is coming from someone who plays tons of gacha games and I don't actually condem spending money on a f2p game but kabam is actually very stupid, and it all boils down to it's progression.
    Basically you need units to progress the main story, because you have to buy revives that cost units combine that with the fact that when ever there's a reward it's tied to your progression and you can't progress without unit don't even get me started on PVP. Some nodes require specific champions, some champions require specific counters, that in it's self locks you out of the quest, so you'll have to cheese but this game being 2 dimensional makes cheesing near impossible, I mean there's a node where the enemies will not throw their specials till it's on the Sp3 even taunting them doesn't work.
    During my 3 year break other games I played had their fair share of difficulties but there was always a way out, but MCOC locks you on a specific quest, making it impossible to do other quest while you're locked on one, the 20% revives aren't actually available to buy because they know it will be dirt cheap and people will use it to cheese and there's no guarantees for champions when you do spend money to get them, making those crystals worthless.
    Solutions:
    Revives should cost gold.
    There should be a guarantee system on featured crystals.
    There should be a restart button for fight, and an undo button for quests.
    Allow players to take multiple quest even if we have to use other champions other than the one's that are being used on previous quest.
    And nerf that Serpent b**tard

    Honeslty I know what this guy is talking about, felt the exact same thing whenever i came back to mcoc. I started playing mcoc when it first cam out and played for several months until I finished all 4 acts at the time and obtained my first 4* from an arena. then I would play for like a weekend or so from time to time (usually whenever a marvel movie i was hyped for came out) and then about like a year and a half ago (during that qwenpool pooloza event) I started playing it constantly and because of the event I was able to expand my 5* cuz I think I only had like a 5* ms marvel at the time and even got my first three 6*s and lowkey act 6 was still a b****. I dont think most players realize just how annoying the story content from act 5 and beyond has gotten with the ai and all the bugged nodes over the years. And not too mention that act 6 is virtually hated and dunked on because it's generally agreed on that it's the hardest due to all the specifics you need to worry about when it comes to paths and bosses (i.e. the Mr.sinister boss fight in act 6, you need posion immunity with someone who can also gain furys to start doing normal damge and to top it off, that same champ needs to heal block or else that fight is going to take a long while which might not even happen because he might just degrade you with his sp1 degens, that's right is still remember you Mr.sinister I'll never forget it). So when it comes to needing a special set of champs that have certain utillty it's can be difficult because there are over 250 champs to possibly obtain. So if you Don't get a champ(s) that can get through the specific node then all you got to do is just wait until you do or just horde a s*** ton of revives to get you through the fight or path which nowadays that's not even possible without waiting like a week or so.

    And going back to where you said the revives should cost gold, fully agree. In fact from my understanding there were ways to farm more that 2 avaible revives a day. However your right nowadays most players (cuz let's be honest this games isn't easy on new players so they don't stick around often) have a solid set or even all 6* champs already except for maybe like the newer ones so kabam got rid of the revive farming because kabam does want it's players to use their well earned units for revives but mostly because at this point most summoner have all the counters for whatever everast content that comes out. And I will say that I actually got through act 6 and 7 before they got rid of the farming and yea a farmed a bit of revives to get through the acts and because of it I was basically able to not waste my units on the acts except when it came to that grandmaster fight in act 6. But oof act 8 I'm not gonna wait a week just to see if I needed the revives to get through it luckily I only needed revives for the hulk boss and gyhkakan but that doesn't take away the fact that I still waited like a year to get viable champs for act 8 and when I was ready to complete and fully explore for that r3 I had several r2 7* and a handful of r4 and r5 6*s to get me through it. So I would even argue that story mode should have it's own revives that cost gold but I don't see kabam doing that like ever. Especially since they are still creating story content.
  • ControversyControversy Member Posts: 9
    Flavyjay said:

    Flavyjay said:

    You quit due to its difficulty, you came back and found it difficult again...So you are quitting again?

    No I'm not
    So you will continue playing the game by the greediest gaming company you ever met? Doesn't sound healthy man...
    I read on another post you spent like 1k units on the Sentinel boss in act 6... You are not gonna be happy about GM.. quit.. save yourself..
    😒
    He right tho I used a s*** ton of revives in act 7-8 and most of them were because of annoying bosses
  • ControversyControversy Member Posts: 9
    Flavyjay said:

    Lokx said:

    No offence, but you sound like you got drowned in instant gratification with some games giving you exactly what you want with no effort to the point that a bit of hard work makes you feel like your climbing.

    Earlier acts are somewhat harder and does feel like bs sometime (such as act 6) but the acts after that become way more enjoyable and easier, apart from 9.1, i’d say act 6 was more fun then 9.1 but 9.1 is still easier.

    The game does rely on revives yes, but can be done without. Kabam wants you to spend time on a quest and do them throughout a set period of time so that you don’t run out of things to do. So if you want to do a specific content and think you need revives, then grind arena for units and apothecary + 22 hour challenges.

    Don’t get me wrong, if the game feels too much of a grind that can become an issue too. Which is why they have done several things to reduce that such as making event quest simpler, reducing the paths in event quest, reducing the paths in story quest, reducing difficulty in story quest, in their new long form content crucible they added a second questing team function and mentioned this will be implemented in future long form content, daily super event which will make a comeback this November.

    Addition to this they’ve done several things to promote bottom tittle progression by making a lot of spending events like 4th of july, cyber etc cater to lower progression more then higher, made banquet a paradise for lower account progression and given more opportunities for lower accounts to get rarities higher then they previously would have (uncollected can get a lot of 6*) and finally also revamping older acts to be easier and have better rewards.

    🤔 This is deep.
    My only issue with this is that most of what seems to help lower player progression is limited to events but even then the events can only get you so far. Let's say your new and joined cuz of an event that can give out a 6*. Great for a new player but a waste if it ends up being one of the weak 6* or mid teir cchamp. Maybe they can get through act5 but at this time that player is still only getting rank up material for thier 5*s so they can decide to horde for that 6* or just focus on 5* but once act 6 comes around that champ will probably not be viable for the act 6 bosses. So then they're stuck grinding EQ and arenas for shards or until the next event to come around so they can try thier luck again with either rank up material if their 6* or obtain another 6* champ that may be viable for act 6.
  • ControversyControversy Member Posts: 9
    edited September 14

    Many players have not spent a single unit on any story content. If you quit because it was "too hard", then you quit because of your own skill, not because of Kabam's greed. If you are consistently spending units on story content, then you are either rushing into it before your roster is ready or you simply don't have the skill to do it. Neither of those are Kabam's fault. Kabam has also made revives and health potions available (though less than they used to) without spending units, not mention the units you can acquire for nothing more than your time. The content should be challenging because that is what makes it enjoyable.
    Any and all content can be done without units if you have an adequate amount of resources available for the content you want to run, have a roster able to handle the content, have an understanding of champion interactions and how nodes affect them, and have the skill to put all of those together.

    Yea well many players didn't start the game while most of the player base basically have the entire roster in 6*s already
  • BringPopcornBringPopcorn Member Posts: 4,289 ★★★★★

    Many players have not spent a single unit on any story content. If you quit because it was "too hard", then you quit because of your own skill, not because of Kabam's greed. If you are consistently spending units on story content, then you are either rushing into it before your roster is ready or you simply don't have the skill to do it. Neither of those are Kabam's fault. Kabam has also made revives and health potions available (though less than they used to) without spending units, not mention the units you can acquire for nothing more than your time. The content should be challenging because that is what makes it enjoyable.
    Any and all content can be done without units if you have an adequate amount of resources available for the content you want to run, have a roster able to handle the content, have an understanding of champion interactions and how nodes affect them, and have the skill to put all of those together.

    Yea well many players didn't start the game while most of the player base basically have the entire roster in 6*s already
    Many players did the content with 2-5* champs...
    Now you see UC with 7* rofl
  • FurrymoosenFurrymoosen Member Posts: 2,741 ★★★★★

    Many players have not spent a single unit on any story content. If you quit because it was "too hard", then you quit because of your own skill, not because of Kabam's greed. If you are consistently spending units on story content, then you are either rushing into it before your roster is ready or you simply don't have the skill to do it. Neither of those are Kabam's fault. Kabam has also made revives and health potions available (though less than they used to) without spending units, not mention the units you can acquire for nothing more than your time. The content should be challenging because that is what makes it enjoyable.
    Any and all content can be done without units if you have an adequate amount of resources available for the content you want to run, have a roster able to handle the content, have an understanding of champion interactions and how nodes affect them, and have the skill to put all of those together.

    Yea well many players didn't start the game while most of the player base basically have the entire roster in 6*s already
    I can only assume that you are referring to how bloated the rosters clearing earlier content are today. If so, I agree with you. And that's a big part of why players are making complaints like OP did. If Acts 1-6 aren't even remotely difficult because of nerfs and easier access to higher level champs, then those players are in for a rude awakening when they get to Act 7 and they can't just bully content because their roster isn't diverse enough.
    Spending units on story content is still far more optional than OP stated.
  • Shiv23Shiv23 Member Posts: 21
    Saying kabam is NOT greedy is like calling a man a woman just cuz they feel like it.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,297 Guardian

    DNA3000 said:

    Flavyjay said:

    Kabam should at least give the chance to restart a fight, missing a block only to start the whole quest over again can be exhausting

    There would be countless issues with that. Everyone would just restart a fight constantly until they got a solo. Even if you limited the amount of restarts per fight or per quest, it would still significantly reduce the challenge of any given fight, which would be terrible. The primary purpose for units (according to Kabam) is clearing content and everything else is a bonus if you're able to clear content using less units. Removing the need to spend units on content by making it a rage-quitter's dream land would cost Kabam a lot of money, resulting in even steeper consequences.
    That's actually not true. I think players often forget that Kabam actually makes the game. The whole game. And all the stuff in it. If you could restart a fight when you died, Kabam would not just sit back and wait for everyone to plow through everything for free and then go find the nearest unemployment line. That's not how this works. If there was some edict from Netmarble headquarters ordering them to allow players to restart fights a certain number of times when they made a mistake they would just make the fights harder.

    Kabam makes the rules, and Kabam balances the resources around those rules. When we could farm unlimited revives, Kabam had to design content for a world where revives were practically unlimited. Now that we can't, content can be designed in a world where revives are limited. Resources are balanced around resource sinks. The difference is, if you allow *some* players to have unlimited resources, then the content will become extremely punishing to those players who can't farm those resources. If you give everyone mulligans on every fight, the content will become far more difficult to beat to compensate.

    Imagine content that is designed so that no matter how many times you restart it and no matter how many revives you use, it is still hard. Think 6.2 Champion, the OG edition. That's the sort of stuff the devs have to make in a world where resources are easy and retries are convenient.

    For the players who currently rely on using things like revives to overcome content that is a bit too difficult for them, cheap revives or easy restarts would be the worst thing ever to happen to the game. Because when the things they use to beat content today become too easy to use, the game would change to make them become useless.
    I agree with everything you've said here, but it doesn't make what I said untrue. In the context of the current game, making a change like OP suggested would do exactly as I said - make everything too easy. If they made the change, then yes, they would have to adjust accordingly as you stated.
    To both of our points, overcorrecting to a level that OP wants will not results in a solution, only a new problem that needs to be solved. Like I said, steeper consequences.
    The part I was disagreeing with was the notion that such changes would cost Kabam money and then presumably force them to react to that. They wouldn’t wait to start losing money, they would proactively change the game to accommodate that change. In fact they might even make the game more difficult *before* changing revives and restarts to proactively adjust to those changes.

    The changes that impact the players the most are ironically the changes they don’t see. They are the things we don’t get, the opportunities we never see, the road not taken that most players cannot compare to, that have the largest impacts on the players. There are games where power balance is simply accepted as necessary and reasonable by the player base. We don’t have that player base. Because of that our range of champion abilities is far higher than it would be. It gives us champs like Hercules, but it also gives us champs like Serpent. A game where Serpent is unacceptable is a game where Hercules doesn’t exist and Quake is an abomination.

    Everything we get is a million other things we don’t get. Everything has side effects. But most of those side effects we don’t see, because the side effect is to change everything the devs give us from that day forward, and scratch things we would have gotten but now will never see and never know we lost.
  • smdam38smdam38 Member Posts: 1,284 ★★★
    I am pretty far from a Kabaam supporter.

    I’m really not seeing the “greedy” part op is talking about.
    Of course paying players are going to advance further and faster if they’re spending money.

    I don’t play a lot of online free mobile games, but this has to be the most free to play friendly one I have ever played.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Member, Guardian Posts: 19,297 Guardian

    Many players have not spent a single unit on any story content. If you quit because it was "too hard", then you quit because of your own skill, not because of Kabam's greed. If you are consistently spending units on story content, then you are either rushing into it before your roster is ready or you simply don't have the skill to do it. Neither of those are Kabam's fault. Kabam has also made revives and health potions available (though less than they used to) without spending units, not mention the units you can acquire for nothing more than your time. The content should be challenging because that is what makes it enjoyable.
    Any and all content can be done without units if you have an adequate amount of resources available for the content you want to run, have a roster able to handle the content, have an understanding of champion interactions and how nodes affect them, and have the skill to put all of those together.

    Yea well many players didn't start the game while most of the player base basically have the entire roster in 6*s already
    I did Act 6 basically as it came out, and I don’t recall spending units on it. Nobody had full rosters of optimal counters back then, and most people were doing it with rank three and rank four 5* champs. When 6.1 came out there was a giant thread of discussion with players working out how to do it.

    Honestly, this is a weird, weird comment. Yes, some of us started the game long ago when rosters were smaller, and thus had a harder time with things like Act 6. But those players would be the very players with an advantage now with Act 7 and Act 8, precisely because they had the time to build very wide, highly ranked up rosters. Newer players might theoretically struggle with Act 7 and Act 8 if they haven’t had the time to build up their rosters yet, but those players would be the beneficiaries of the much faster progression curve and much cheaper paths to roster development now than back in 2019, and have an easier time building up roster to tackle Act 6 than most of us did back when it first came out.

    Act 6 *was* a more difficult piece of content than Act 7 in *some* ways when Act 7 first arrived. But today, Act 6 can be completely overwhelmed by the current champion progression curve. Players can bring in champs twice as powerful as what it was balanced for when it first arrived. It can be beaten with 6* champs that have become very ubiquitous at higher progression tiers, and it no longer even roadblocks those progression tiers allowing players to bypass it and progress higher, then come back to it when they’ve built up high tier rosters.

    The idea that it is somehow a flaw in the game that players don’t have some unlimited revive ATM that allows them to just plow through the content face first is ludicrous. I’m the Act 6 difficulty curve guy, and I still think that’s absurd.
  • Herbal_TaxmanHerbal_Taxman Member Posts: 387 ★★★
    Flavyjay said:

    Flavyjay said:

    Kabam should at least give the chance to restart a fight, missing a block only to start the whole quest over again can be exhausting

    There would be countless issues with that. Everyone would just restart a fight constantly until they got a solo. Even if you limited the amount of restarts per fight or per quest, it would still significantly reduce the challenge of any given fight, which would be terrible. The primary purpose for units (according to Kabam) is clearing content and everything else is a bonus if you're able to clear content using less units. Removing the need to spend units on content by making it a rage-quitter's dream land would cost Kabam a lot of money, resulting in even steeper consequences.
    I see 🤔, is there any way to counter dormamu's degen
    If Dorm is what’s causing you trouble, you really are behind the times.
  • FlavyjayFlavyjay Member Posts: 29

    Flavyjay said:

    Flavyjay said:

    Kabam should at least give the chance to restart a fight, missing a block only to start the whole quest over again can be exhausting

    There would be countless issues with that. Everyone would just restart a fight constantly until they got a solo. Even if you limited the amount of restarts per fight or per quest, it would still significantly reduce the challenge of any given fight, which would be terrible. The primary purpose for units (according to Kabam) is clearing content and everything else is a bonus if you're able to clear content using less units. Removing the need to spend units on content by making it a rage-quitter's dream land would cost Kabam a lot of money, resulting in even steeper consequences.
    I see 🤔, is there any way to counter dormamu's degen
    If Dorm is what’s causing you trouble, you really are behind the times.
    No it wasn't dormamu, I asked because I saw him on a node and I remembered his degen but didn't know how to counter it.
    As what what caused me trouble it the fact that I spent 1K units on a single boss
  • PikoluPikolu Member, Guardian Posts: 7,346 Guardian

    Many players have not spent a single unit on any story content. If you quit because it was "too hard", then you quit because of your own skill, not because of Kabam's greed. If you are consistently spending units on story content, then you are either rushing into it before your roster is ready or you simply don't have the skill to do it. Neither of those are Kabam's fault. Kabam has also made revives and health potions available (though less than they used to) without spending units, not mention the units you can acquire for nothing more than your time. The content should be challenging because that is what makes it enjoyable.
    Any and all content can be done without units if you have an adequate amount of resources available for the content you want to run, have a roster able to handle the content, have an understanding of champion interactions and how nodes affect them, and have the skill to put all of those together.

    Yea well many players didn't start the game while most of the player base basically have the entire roster in 6*s already
    I can only assume that you are referring to how bloated the rosters clearing earlier content are today. If so, I agree with you. And that's a big part of why players are making complaints like OP did. If Acts 1-6 aren't even remotely difficult because of nerfs and easier access to higher level champs, then those players are in for a rude awakening when they get to Act 7 and they can't just bully content because their roster isn't diverse enough.
    Spending units on story content is still far more optional than OP stated.
    I'll disagree about act 6 not being remotely difficult. My alt is currently going through act 6 and I'm struggling through some of those quests. Namely 6.1.1 is extremely rough on players, you go from 100k healthpool act 5 boss to every fight is 200k+ health until 6.2 (why 6.1 has larger healthpools is beyond me) and you're dealing both no retreat and top of the meta defenders at the time are on virtually every single lane. Then the bosses are also not a walk in the park and require counters (namely crossbones, Mr sinister, and Medusa) to beat. Act 6 is where you really have to start learning how to play the game because not many are getting through the champion boss or grandmaster without getting some form of skill in the game.
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,362 ★★★★
    Flavyjay said:

    I mean there's a node where the enemies will not throw their specials till it's on the Sp3 even taunting them doesn't work.

    what node are you talking about?
    were you high when you read that node?
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,362 ★★★★
    i need to use many more revies than mates of mine.
    i die multiple times on fights that they solo.
    some people i know did the whole explo of the new act 9 using only 4 revs.
    i used a few more than that on my first completion.

    is the problem the nodes or me?
    i mean yeah some nodes and defenders suck. but. all can be countered if played right with the right counter.
    sometimes its just a bad error, sometimes its poor attacker choice, sometimes its skill, but at the end of the day there is always a reason why i have died and someone else has been able to solo.
  • FlavyjayFlavyjay Member Posts: 29
    Maat1985 said:

    Flavyjay said:

    I mean there's a node where the enemies will not throw their specials till it's on the Sp3 even taunting them doesn't work.

    what node are you talking about?
    were you high when you read that node?
    All or nothing node in act 6
  • Maat1985Maat1985 Member Posts: 2,362 ★★★★
    Flavyjay said:

    Maat1985 said:

    Flavyjay said:

    I mean there's a node where the enemies will not throw their specials till it's on the Sp3 even taunting them doesn't work.

    what node are you talking about?
    were you high when you read that node?
    All or nothing node in act 6
    so firstly,
    taunt and similar does work....
    secondly counter it with power drain/power lock so they never get a sp3
  • EdisonLawEdisonLaw Member Posts: 6,069 ★★★★★
    edited September 15
    Maat1985 said:

    Flavyjay said:

    I mean there's a node where the enemies will not throw their specials till it's on the Sp3 even taunting them doesn't work.

    what node are you talking about?
    were you high when you read that node?
    Surging Vengeance or All or Nothing
  • DemonzfyreDemonzfyre Member Posts: 21,760 ★★★★★
    Flavyjay said:

    Flavyjay said:

    Flavyjay said:

    Kabam should at least give the chance to restart a fight, missing a block only to start the whole quest over again can be exhausting

    There would be countless issues with that. Everyone would just restart a fight constantly until they got a solo. Even if you limited the amount of restarts per fight or per quest, it would still significantly reduce the challenge of any given fight, which would be terrible. The primary purpose for units (according to Kabam) is clearing content and everything else is a bonus if you're able to clear content using less units. Removing the need to spend units on content by making it a rage-quitter's dream land would cost Kabam a lot of money, resulting in even steeper consequences.
    I see 🤔, is there any way to counter dormamu's degen
    If Dorm is what’s causing you trouble, you really are behind the times.
    No it wasn't dormamu, I asked because I saw him on a node and I remembered his degen but didn't know how to counter it.
    As what what caused me trouble it the fact that I spent 1K units on a single boss
    You can counter Dormamus degen with champs that don't have buffs or Ghulk. Back when act 6 was released, we didn't have those options.
  • DharakDharak Member Posts: 16
    edited September 16
    Flavyjay said:

    Dharak said:

    Flavyjay said:

    Flavyjay said:

    Lokx said:

    No offence, but you sound like you got drowned in instant gratification with some games giving you exactly what you want with no effort to the point that a bit of hard work makes you feel like your climbing.

    Earlier acts are somewhat harder and does feel like bs sometime (such as act 6) but the acts after that become way more enjoyable and easier, apart from 9.1, i’d say act 6 was more fun then 9.1 but 9.1 is still easier.

    The game does rely on revives yes, but can be done without. Kabam wants you to spend time on a quest and do them throughout a set period of time so that you don’t run out of things to do. So if you want to do a specific content and think you need revives, then grind arena for units and apothecary + 22 hour challenges.

    Don’t get me wrong, if the game feels too much of a grind that can become an issue too. Which is why they have done several things to reduce that such as making event quest simpler, reducing the paths in event quest, reducing the paths in story quest, reducing difficulty in story quest, in their new long form content crucible they added a second questing team function and mentioned this will be implemented in future long form content, daily super event which will make a comeback this November.

    Addition to this they’ve done several things to promote bottom tittle progression by making a lot of spending events like 4th of july, cyber etc cater to lower progression more then higher, made banquet a paradise for lower account progression and given more opportunities for lower accounts to get rarities higher then they previously would have (uncollected can get a lot of 6*) and finally also revamping older acts to be easier and have better rewards.

    🤔 This is deep.
    The funny thing is I haven't used units to buy anything other than revives, I guess I'm just that bad 😅
    Did you seriously reply to your own comment damn you really must be out for attention.
    🤦 Did you even see the comments that reply quoted.
    The only thing you know what to do is to brag all day long if you are just gonna quit then quit already instead of just chatting 24/7 about how much difficult this game is & FYI it ain't difficult at all.
  • crogscrogs Member Posts: 769 ★★★
    Flavyjay said:

    After reading through all your replies may be I'll give it the benefit of the doubt, but the game could still be better especially in regards to revives and restarting fights.

    You have 4hr crystals. You have a potion daily quest. You have units you can earn through game play to buy potions. You get an offer after completing an EQ difficulty to get discounted potions.

    If you're complaining about using earned units to buy potions, spending in game currency is a choice. Save it for when you need it. I'm pushing 8k units. I don't spend money on this game anymore. I also have a few hundred 4hr crystals, and I'll do the potion quest whenever I have energy to waste.

    I'm also one that's behind the curve. I'm about halfway to Paragon with no real desire to play story. I have a handful of r4 6's and an R5. Hell, I sat at Gwen master for 6 months and couldn't have cared less about beating her and pushing forward. I know my skill level. I don't whine about it. You have to stop worrying about what others are doing and just play the game so that you can enjoy it.

    If you're constantly pushing forward and dying way more than you should, then stick to the monthly stuff until your roster can help compensate your lesser skill. You'll also build up stash of potions and 4hr crystals to get you through some tougher content without spending units. But you'll also have built up your units as well to buy potions if needed.

    And don't waste units on buying variable rarity crystals and other stupid stuff when you know that stuff doesn't help you progress.
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