White Tiger parried and stunned while using a heavy attack in BGs.

Terminatrix

I was using White Tiger against Serpent.
I threw a heavy attack, he blocked and parried it, stunned WT, then countered with a combo. It wasn't a punishing heavy counter ...he simply somehow blocked/parried her heavy.

Has this happened to anybody else before? I can see if it was a basic hit that was blocked and parried, but a heavy?? That one perplexes me.

Cloudddey_bro

Stand your ground mastery.

Terminatrix

Cloudddey_bro said:

Stand your ground mastery.

Doesn't Stand Your Ground make them withstand a heavy attack and resist block break? That's happened before, but not being parried and stunned.

Gamer

Terminatrix said:

Cloudddey_bro said:

Stand your ground mastery.

Doesn't Stand Your Ground make them withstand a heavy attack and resist block break? That's happened before, but not being parried and stunned.

If it was time right it can parry you wild when it happens

Coach_G1

That just happened to me as well, I never been parried/stunned on a heavy.

BringPopcorn

If its a single hit heavy ir gets resisted, 2 or more hits might get u stunned.

Grub88

Brought it up in march, no response. No where does the stand your ground mastery say it is a well-timed block and the parry mastery specifically says "if contact is made by a basic attack, inflict a stun debuff" which a heavy is not a basic attack as far as I am aware. This to me is a bug that has been in the game a long time now

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/363301/parried-on-heavy-resist#latest

BigTuna_2054

There’s definitely something wrong. My relic striker has been getting dexed and parried as well.

BringPopcorn

This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

Grub88

BringPopcorn said:

This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

Are you going to explain that or just make statements

Terminatrix

BringPopcorn said:

If its a single hit heavy ir gets resisted, 2 or more hits might get u stunned.

The first hit in her heavy is when she was stunned. There was no "resist" text showing near Serpent either.

Grub88

This would explain the basic attack part so heavy is included as a basic attack from what this says

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/229148/question-what-exactly-is-a-basic-attack

Still doesn't explain the well-timed block part

BringPopcorn

Grub88 said:

BringPopcorn said:

This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

Are you going to explain that or just make statements

I explained it a few mins ago? Are you going to read the thread or just expect a personal response?

Squidopus

This isn’t bugged behavior. Stand your ground lets you block heavies. If you can block the attack, then there’s nothing stopping that block from being well-timed (and as we’re all aware, the ai is quite good at doing well-timed blocks these days). If you perform a well-timed block against a basic attack that makes contact, including a heavy, you can inflict parry stun. This is theoretically something you can do as well, not just the ai, it’s just that no one is insane enough to ever try given the multitude of factors going against you (heavies can be charged for a random amount of time so it’s difficult to time the parry, stand your ground isn’t guaranteed, you’re eating a big hit if you mess up or the luck doesn’t turn out in your favor).

Grub88

BringPopcorn said:

Grub88 said:

BringPopcorn said:

This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

Are you going to explain that or just make statements

I explained it a few mins ago? Are you going to read the thread or just expect a personal response?

Yep read everything you have posted again still no explanation for you reasoning of "nothing wrong"

Just as delusional as ever

Also I did half your job for you!

PantherusNZ

So many confidently incorrect responses here.

A heavy is a basic attack - this is well known and consistent - any node that interacts with "Basic Attacks" also applies to heavies.
Stand Your Ground allows you to potentially Resist/Block heavy attacks
If you get the block well-timed then you can parry.

It's been this way ever since the mastery has been in play and has been brought up countless times - how any experienced forum-going player doesn't know this is mind-boggling.

Grub88

Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

Squidopus

Grub88 said:

Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.

Grub88

Squidopus said:

Grub88 said:

Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.

If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different

Squidopus

Grub88 said:

Squidopus said:

Grub88 said:

Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.

If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different

Well-timed blocks are a subset of blocks. All well-timed blocks are blocks, not all blocks are well-timed. If you wanted to be technical to an obtuse degree then yeah they are indeed not literally the same but they certainly aren’t “totally different” as you also said. Any game interaction that occurs on block also occurs on well-timed block unless they specify otherwise because that’s how subsets work. Stand your ground lets you block heavies, it is implicitly clear that you can also parry heavies.

EdisonLaw

A heavy attack is a basic attack and thus they can be parried if you have Stand your ground

Terminatrix

Ok cool. Thank you all for the clarity. 👊🏽







*Note to self: don't use heavy attack or any other basic attack, just in case the opponent has Stand Your Ground mastery set up.

Great. 😮‍💨

PantherusNZ

lol no - I honestly don't remember the last time I had a heavy attack parried.

Grub88

Squidopus said:

Grub88 said:

Squidopus said:

Grub88 said:

Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.

If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different

Well-timed blocks are a subset of blocks. All well-timed blocks are blocks, not all blocks are well-timed. If you wanted to be technical to an obtuse degree then yeah they are indeed not literally the same but they certainly aren’t “totally different” as you also said. Any game interaction that occurs on block also occurs on well-timed block unless they specify otherwise because that’s how subsets work. Stand your ground lets you block heavies, it is implicitly clear that you can also parry heavies.

The code would have to determine if it is one or the other

• if a block input and basic attack input are within a set time frame then the output is a well-timed block
• if the block input is outside of the set time frame being to late it is not a block at all
• and if it is outside on the too early side of that window it is a normal block

It can't be all of the these at the same time, it can't be two of these at the same time it can only be one. In that sense they are completely different.

Also I think you would mean that blocks are a subset of well-timed blocks but well-timed blocks aren't a subset of blocks as well-timed blocks have more interactions that blocks don't have... that is if we are being technical to obtuse degree

Whether you want to accept it or not it is continually getting air time on the forums so maybe it isn't as clear as you want to believe it is

Archit_1812

Definitely legit. Stand your ground mastery resists heavy attacks, and in the minor event that you hit a heavy into block and your opponent activates said resist, you get parried. It's happened with many people before. That's one of the main reasons I have to ban Doom in BGs. With his personal Resist, Crit Resist, along with stand your ground makes almost all your knockdowns invalid. I've had doom rush in to the last hit of my special 2 because he resisted knockdown.

Childish_Almino

Grub88 said:

Squidopus said:

Grub88 said:

Squidopus said:

Grub88 said:

Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.

If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different

Well-timed blocks are a subset of blocks. All well-timed blocks are blocks, not all blocks are well-timed. If you wanted to be technical to an obtuse degree then yeah they are indeed not literally the same but they certainly aren’t “totally different” as you also said. Any game interaction that occurs on block also occurs on well-timed block unless they specify otherwise because that’s how subsets work. Stand your ground lets you block heavies, it is implicitly clear that you can also parry heavies.

The code would have to determine if it is one or the other

• if a block input and basic attack input are within a set time frame then the output is a well-timed block
• if the block input is outside of the set time frame being to late it is not a block at all
• and if it is outside on the too early side of that window it is a normal block

It can't be all of the these at the same time, it can't be two of these at the same time it can only be one. In that sense they are completely different.

Also I think you would mean that blocks are a subset of well-timed blocks but well-timed blocks aren't a subset of blocks as well-timed blocks have more interactions that blocks don't have... that is if we are being technical to obtuse degree

Whether you want to accept it or not it is continually getting air time on the forums so maybe it isn't as clear as you want to believe it is

With the statement „all well-timed block are blocks but not all blocks are well-timed blocks“ you can see that the well-timed blocks are a subset as they cannot exist without the block feature, meanwhile blocking can exist without parry.

Average_Desi

Grub88 said:

BringPopcorn said:

Grub88 said:

BringPopcorn said:

This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

Are you going to explain that or just make statements

I explained it a few mins ago? Are you going to read the thread or just expect a personal response?

Yep read everything you have posted again still no explanation for you reasoning of "nothing wrong"

Just as delusional as ever

Also I did half your job for you!

Ok, this might be too advanced for a beginner like you, but I'll try anyway. There is this mastery you can unlock called Parry. Using this, you can stun you opponents if you block basic hits in a certain interval. And as the game is designed, heavy attacks are also basic hits. So if you block a heavy attack at the perfect time, you can stun the opponent.

Grub88

Average_Desi said:

Grub88 said:

BringPopcorn said:

Grub88 said:

BringPopcorn said:

This has been going on for years, nothing wrong or new.

Are you going to explain that or just make statements

I explained it a few mins ago? Are you going to read the thread or just expect a personal response?

Yep read everything you have posted again still no explanation for you reasoning of "nothing wrong"

Just as delusional as ever

Also I did half your job for you!

Ok, this might be too advanced for a beginner like you, but I'll try anyway. There is this mastery you can unlock called Parry. Using this, you can stun you opponents if you block basic hits in a certain interval. And as the game is designed, heavy attacks are also basic hits. So if you block a heavy attack at the perfect time, you can stun the opponent.

Well done you can read, now go back in the thread and find where I was the first one to point out that a heavy attack is a basic attack. Don’t hurt your brain while your at it

Grub88

Childish_Almino said:

Grub88 said:

Squidopus said:

Grub88 said:

Squidopus said:

Grub88 said:

Yeah I still have to argue with that. The mastery specifically says Stand Your Ground give you a chance to resist a block break meaning you are already blocking. There is a difference between already blocking and a heavy attack breaking that block and a well-timed block. Well timed block is a totally different interaction all together and is used in multiple different part of the game. Photons last hit of SP1 in light mode for example.

I'm not on the forums 24/7 so maybe I have missed something but as far as I'm aware it has never been officially responded to and the answers in this thread are the only ones that I have ever seen have decent explanations.

Even if it is the intended design you can't argue that a slight change to the description of stand your ground like including this mastery can trigger the parry mastery, which is found in so many champions kits, would not be warranted or even reduce the confusion

It really isn’t necessary. Performing a well-timed block means you were already blocking before the attack hit as well; if you weren’t, you wouldn’t have blocked the attack. Well-timed blocks are just a type of block where you started it just before the attack landed, they aren’t categorically different as you’re suggesting.

If they are not categorically different then how can it be determined in the code, that statement is fundamentally flawed. By being able to determine weather it is a well-timed block or a normal block they inherently have to be categorically different

Well-timed blocks are a subset of blocks. All well-timed blocks are blocks, not all blocks are well-timed. If you wanted to be technical to an obtuse degree then yeah they are indeed not literally the same but they certainly aren’t “totally different” as you also said. Any game interaction that occurs on block also occurs on well-timed block unless they specify otherwise because that’s how subsets work. Stand your ground lets you block heavies, it is implicitly clear that you can also parry heavies.

The code would have to determine if it is one or the other

• if a block input and basic attack input are within a set time frame then the output is a well-timed block
• if the block input is outside of the set time frame being to late it is not a block at all
• and if it is outside on the too early side of that window it is a normal block

It can't be all of the these at the same time, it can't be two of these at the same time it can only be one. In that sense they are completely different.

Also I think you would mean that blocks are a subset of well-timed blocks but well-timed blocks aren't a subset of blocks as well-timed blocks have more interactions that blocks don't have... that is if we are being technical to obtuse degree

Whether you want to accept it or not it is continually getting air time on the forums so maybe it isn't as clear as you want to believe it is

With the statement „all well-timed block are blocks but not all blocks are well-timed blocks“ you can see that the well-timed blocks are a subset as they cannot exist without the block feature, meanwhile blocking can exist without parry.

Here is some AI to explain it to you so I don’t have to

“A subset is a set whose elements are contained within another set. In other words, a set A is a subset of another set B if all elements of the set A are elements of the set B. This means that the set A is contained inside the set B.

For example, if we have a set A = {1, 2, 3} and a set B = {1, 2, 3, 4, 5}, then A is a subset of B because all elements of A are also elements of B.”

So while block can be a subset of well-timed block because well-timed block contains all the elements of block, well-timed block can’t be a subset of block because well-timed block contains elements that block does not have I.e. parry

Why we are talking about subsets is still beyond me, I highly doubt that the block interactions are programmed in anyway that relates to subsets

Chuck_Finley

Have been parry stunned on heavies in BG’s and even got heavy parried in Arena this morning. Super fun interaction.

Any time I get parried in BG’s - 9 times out of 10 my defender was nuked and I was losing on time anyway. Right or wrong - I feel like it’s the AI just putting me out of my misery sooner.

WednesdayLength

Grub88 said:

Brought it up in march, no response. No where does the stand your ground mastery say it is a well-timed block and the parry mastery specifically says "if contact is made by a basic attack, inflict a stun debuff" which a heavy is not a basic attack as far as I am aware. This to me is a bug that has been in the game a long time now

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/363301/parried-on-heavy-resist#latest

It's not that stand your ground is an auto block, it's that they perfectly timed a block to parry, stand your ground activated on the heavy hit and parried it.

All non special attacks are basic attacks, even evade counterattacks