Agatha All Along thread

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  • Wicket329Wicket329 Member Posts: 3,407 ★★★★★
    Spoiler-Free Thoughts:

    I thoroughly enjoyed this show. Characters were likable and well-written, jokes landed while still giving the dramatic moments the time they needed to breathe (which is, in my opinion, the biggest problem Marvel writing has had lately THOR FOUR). It was clear that there was a single idea that drove the writing and plot from the jump, it was not a jumbled mess of subplots and foreshadowing of unrelated projects.

    I’d give it like a 7.5 or 8/10 overall. Fun, enjoyable show that rewarded deeper Marvel knowledge without demanding it. Knows what it is and stays focused on its storytelling and characters. Puts some new pieces on the board for the MCU if it chooses to play with them, but also isn’t like “here’s this major threat that needs to be dealt with quickly!” and then we don’t hear about it ever again (Mordo). It’s a show that learned from past MCU mistakes and stuck to its guns.
  • Sundance_2099Sundance_2099 Member Posts: 3,471 ★★★★★

    Well, it was a hell of a show, but they kind let the ball drop in the last episode, unhappily. It left a bitter taste. Agatha vs Rio was really boring and disappointing. Lilia and Alice really died for nothing, because in the end Agatha died anyways. We didn't get to see how Agatha got pregnant since she only says he appeared inside of her, and we didn't get to know why and what was his sickness, Agatha's love affair with Rio, why Agatha is able to steal other witches powers. Jen just needed to talk a little bit more about the doctor for Agatha to realize she binded her. Why Agatha would always get so offended when asked about Nick, if in the end she really didn't do anything wrong, she's living hundreds of years of sorrow and grief.
    And after all that, for a whole show about witches showcasing spells and all that, they fight really weirdly

    They didn't die for nothing, they died to protect the others and, in Lilia's case, to kill the 7.

    Midichlorians. Or if you want a more serious answer: magic. He was ill because it was the 1750s, no healthcare, lots of illnesses around and - possibly - because his death inevitable.

    Because that was her witch schtick the same as Alice being a protection witch, Lilia being a seer, etc.

    You'd get offended if your child died and it was your great love who did it, too. Unless you've lost someone close to you like a parent, child or sibling you don't know what grief and sorrow can do to you, and I envy you because I have and I pity you, because I have.

    How's how they fight any weirder or stupider than the way any other superhero fights?
  • OurobørosOurobøros Member Posts: 1,759 ★★★★★

    Well, it was a hell of a show, but they kind let the ball drop in the last episode, unhappily. It left a bitter taste. Agatha vs Rio was really boring and disappointing. Lilia and Alice really died for nothing, because in the end Agatha died anyways. We didn't get to see how Agatha got pregnant since she only says he appeared inside of her, and we didn't get to know why and what was his sickness, Agatha's love affair with Rio, why Agatha is able to steal other witches powers. Jen just needed to talk a little bit more about the doctor for Agatha to realize she binded her. Why Agatha would always get so offended when asked about Nick, if in the end she really didn't do anything wrong, she's living hundreds of years of sorrow and grief.
    And after all that, for a whole show about witches showcasing spells and all that, they fight really weirdly

    They didn't die for nothing, they died to protect the others and, in Lilia's case, to kill the 7.

    Midichlorians. Or if you want a more serious answer: magic. He was ill because it was the 1750s, no healthcare, lots of illnesses around and - possibly - because his death inevitable.

    Because that was her witch schtick the same as Alice being a protection witch, Lilia being a seer, etc.

    You'd get offended if your child died and it was your great love who did it, too. Unless you've lost someone close to you like a parent, child or sibling you don't know what grief and sorrow can do to you, and I envy you because I have and I pity you, because I have.

    How's how they fight any weirder or stupider than the way any other superhero fights?
    I say they died for nothing because Alice died protecting Billy from Agatha that was possessed by her mother trying to keep her there, which at the end wouldn't make any difference because Agatha ended dying anyways, the same for Lilia, she died killing the 7, but if she didn't, they would have killed Agatha, but she died anyways. And Sharon, there's no reason at all for her to die.

    And for fighting weirdly, I mean, no spells, magics or tricks, just blasts of power, we've seen this kind of fight before, Captain Marvel, Photon, even Wanda, just wish they used more witchy ways of fighting
  • OurobørosOurobøros Member Posts: 1,759 ★★★★★

    I was disappointed with the ending. I don’t know the comic story and I don’t know where I thought it was going but that didn’t feel satisfying. There were definitely some good reveals throughout the last few episodes that I didn’t see coming but the conclusion left me wanting something different.

    The comic base they used were:
    Agatha as spirit guruu, the only difference is she's with Wanda, and Wanda killed her in the first place, and at the end of the road (which is real and not made up) she comes back to life as a gift from the Goddess of All Witches
    Wiccan looking for Tommy (and after that they look for Wanda, but for the looks of it, I don't think Marvel intend to bring Wanda back)

    Lilia was the Gypsy Queen of the Witches in Romania and used to pissed the Serpent Crown, a magical crown created by the Egyptian God of Chaos, Set, she's dead in the comics

    Jennifer Kale is the protector of the Nexus of All Realities, the Man-Thing and is the descendant of the Witches from Atlantis before it sank

    Alice became The Wu of the Coral Shore after her mother, The Wu is the Magical Guardian of Hong Kong
  • EakomoEakomo Member Posts: 142

    Well, it was a hell of a show, but they kind let the ball drop in the last episode, unhappily. It left a bitter taste. Agatha vs Rio was really boring and disappointing. Lilia and Alice really died for nothing, because in the end Agatha died anyways. We didn't get to see how Agatha got pregnant since she only says he appeared inside of her, and we didn't get to know why and what was his sickness, Agatha's love affair with Rio, why Agatha is able to steal other witches powers. Jen just needed to talk a little bit more about the doctor for Agatha to realize she binded her. Why Agatha would always get so offended when asked about Nick, if in the end she really didn't do anything wrong, she's living hundreds of years of sorrow and grief.
    And after all that, for a whole show about witches showcasing spells and all that, they fight really weirdly

    They didn't die for nothing, they died to protect the others and, in Lilia's case, to kill the 7.

    Midichlorians. Or if you want a more serious answer: magic. He was ill because it was the 1750s, no healthcare, lots of illnesses around and - possibly - because his death inevitable.

    Because that was her witch schtick the same as Alice being a protection witch, Lilia being a seer, etc.

    You'd get offended if your child died and it was your great love who did it, too. Unless you've lost someone close to you like a parent, child or sibling you don't know what grief and sorrow can do to you, and I envy you because I have and I pity you, because I have.

    How's how they fight any weirder or stupider than the way any other superhero fights?
    alice did die for nothing, as she didn't need to do that to agatha, and billly was in no trouble.
    the 7 were so overhyped and underused with little impact to the story, and tbh i see no reason why they were added other than to add a fear and rushing factor to doing things.

    we've seen wizards and witches before, ergo dr strange 1 and 2, and wanda vision.
    they didn't do any spell like they did before, why? who knows
  • Savage123456789Savage123456789 Member Posts: 802 ★★★
    The only positive about the ending is that they didn’t split ep 8 and 9 over 2 weeks. I can’t imagine seeing how ep 8 ended just to wait a week to see how ep 9 turned out. I don’t read comic books and I don’t know the story of Agatha and Wiccan, so maybe that’s why I feel this way, but the rest of the show was still good even with me not reading comics. Just a drop off in the end after all that exciting build up.
  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 957 ★★★★
    edited October 31
    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?

  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,004 ★★★★★

    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?

    Point one it was to keep her son alive by giving rio bodies so she wouldnt come for him. Point 2 im not sure. Point 3 like in comics when wanda killed her she became a ghost and as she leaned in different magic she became a ghost in this show, point 4 its all his mind that he couldnt control till realising it all at the end as he said it was all him
  • OurobørosOurobøros Member Posts: 1,759 ★★★★★

    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?


    So, there's this theory that she killed the witches pay for Nicky's time, that's the only logical reason I could give.

    I do believe all these plot holes are meant to be leads for another spin off, or, that more about Agatha will be revealed next time she appears which should be the next project involving Billy, Vision Quest probably.
    As Agatha told Rio, the truth is much more awful than the lies they tell about her, and we didn't get to see it yet. She probably did something really wrong and that ended up costing her son's health, something so corrupted that she couldn't change it, and it it must have been something really evil. Maybe she really did trade his life but ended up regretting it, that's why she knew Rio would come.

    Basic Ghost concept, only those who have unfinished business on the Living plane become ghosts

    As Wanda created the Hex spontaneously using Chaos Magic on Autopilot so did Wiccan, it's like the Road is his Hex

  • Drago_von_DragoDrago_von_Drago Member Posts: 957 ★★★★
    Bendy said:

    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?

    Point one it was to keep her son alive by giving rio bodies so she wouldnt come for him. Point 2 im not sure. Point 3 like in comics when wanda killed her she became a ghost and as she leaned in different magic she became a ghost in this show, point 4 its all his mind that he couldnt control till realising it all at the end as he said it was all him

    For point 1, she kept killing for centuries after he was gone though. Maybe that was her buying herself more time and Rio finally caught up with her when the hex broke because she had gone too long without providing bodies?

    For the last one, I know it was all his creation, I’m just questioning how he knew to create the kind of poison he did and have the antidote ingredients in the house or how he knew all about Alice’s family curse to bring it to life. There was a lot of intricate and very specific stuff in the trials that he had to create without knowing any of the background info. Maybe the hex just does that all on its own as part of the way it works and he had no input once it started?

    I feel like a little more exposition might have helped the ending feel more complete or be more clear about what was still intentionally unclear at this point to set the stage for future answers.
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,004 ★★★★★

    Bendy said:

    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?

    Point one it was to keep her son alive by giving rio bodies so she wouldnt come for him. Point 2 im not sure. Point 3 like in comics when wanda killed her she became a ghost and as she leaned in different magic she became a ghost in this show, point 4 its all his mind that he couldnt control till realising it all at the end as he said it was all him

    For point 1, she kept killing for centuries after he was gone though. Maybe that was her buying herself more time and Rio finally caught up with her when the hex broke because she had gone too long without providing bodies?

    For the last one, I know it was all his creation, I’m just questioning how he knew to create the kind of poison he did and have the antidote ingredients in the house or how he knew all about Alice’s family curse to bring it to life. There was a lot of intricate and very specific stuff in the trials that he had to create without knowing any of the background info. Maybe the hex just does that all on its own as part of the way it works and he had no input once it started?

    I feel like a little more exposition might have helped the ending feel more complete or be more clear about what was still intentionally unclear at this point to set the stage for future answers.
    About the knowing i think his mind when creating the road on the coven the road can see the mind and create all of it like wandas hex how it changed reality and minds of those people in westview of their memories so i think its all like the hex but his hex is the witches road and it will conjure what that member is so the potion trial being poison a curse etc i think it was all due to his reality warping and his own hex, agatha killing was because shes a villain shes angry she lost her child and so death didnt go to her next since shes lived far too long she had to keep giving bodies to her this is how i view it all from watching it
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,004 ★★★★★

    Bendy said:

    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?

    Point one it was to keep her son alive by giving rio bodies so she wouldnt come for him. Point 2 im not sure. Point 3 like in comics when wanda killed her she became a ghost and as she leaned in different magic she became a ghost in this show, point 4 its all his mind that he couldnt control till realising it all at the end as he said it was all him

    For point 1, she kept killing for centuries after he was gone though. Maybe that was her buying herself more time and Rio finally caught up with her when the hex broke because she had gone too long without providing bodies?

    For the last one, I know it was all his creation, I’m just questioning how he knew to create the kind of poison he did and have the antidote ingredients in the house or how he knew all about Alice’s family curse to bring it to life. There was a lot of intricate and very specific stuff in the trials that he had to create without knowing any of the background info. Maybe the hex just does that all on its own as part of the way it works and he had no input once it started?

    I feel like a little more exposition might have helped the ending feel more complete or be more clear about what was still intentionally unclear at this point to set the stage for future answers.
    Of course theres still so much unexplored about agathas past that we havent seen at all that i hope they do down the line since she has a lot history to go through
    like we dont even know how she first found death how they became a thing, how did agatha get the darkhold from salem days in the 1600s like theres so much to explore with her
  • Sundance_2099Sundance_2099 Member Posts: 3,471 ★★★★★
    remember, it's just a show. don't think about it too deeply.

    (<---Is guilty of doing exactly that, *side-eyes Star Trek 2009 and that stupid magic red goo cobblers and the brewery engine-room*)
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,004 ★★★★★

    remember, it's just a show. don't think about it too deeply.

    (<---Is guilty of doing exactly that, *side-eyes Star Trek 2009 and that stupid magic red goo cobblers and the brewery engine-room*)</p>

    Ill always care deeply these shows are too interesting to not get sucked into it of what happens next and answers we need answers
  • mbracembrace Member Posts: 898 ★★★
    The show was cool if for no other reason than it was Wiccan’s origin story.
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,004 ★★★★★
    Like one question still lingers after multiverse of madness
    is wanda alive all season long its been shes dead for sure dead then it went maybe like i needed to know but now im just waiting for the answer was hoping we would get it
  • OurobørosOurobøros Member Posts: 1,759 ★★★★★
    Bendy said:

    Like one question still lingers after multiverse of madness

    is wanda alive all season long its been shes dead for sure dead then it went maybe like i needed to know but now im just waiting for the answer was hoping we would get it
    I really hope she's under Doom's influence
  • EakomoEakomo Member Posts: 142

    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?

    the show sets up and mentions a lot of things that get discarded very fast


    her killing witches to gain power seems interesting for someone who is a trickster but why didn't her mother or anyone else have that kind of power as well?

    why did she need to have them attack her if she was always going to get the darkhold and why do people think she sacrificed her kid to get it, when by what they showed she killed every other witch who saw her kid?

    wiccan finds that she and death were always together but the final episode says otherwise, and why didn't she even try to save her kid or teach him magic, but consistently kill people to "survive"
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,700 ★★★★★
    I'm only here for that lesbian kiss 😳
  • HarryatomixHarryatomix Member Posts: 368 ★★★
    Best marvel show ever imo.
  • phillgreenphillgreen Member Posts: 4,171 ★★★★★
    PT_99 said:

    I'm only here for that lesbian kiss 😳

    Are you 12?
  • phillgreenphillgreen Member Posts: 4,171 ★★★★★
    Havent watched any of it, havent read anything here that makes me want to.
  • PT_99PT_99 Member Posts: 4,700 ★★★★★

    PT_99 said:

    I'm only here for that lesbian kiss 😳

    Are you 12?
    There's no age in appreciating affection, love and happiness.
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,004 ★★★★★
    PT_99 said:

    I'm only here for that lesbian kiss 😳

    Honestly i was shocked to see that i wasnt expecting it at all
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,004 ★★★★★
    edited November 1
    Eakomo said:

    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?

    the show sets up and mentions a lot of things that get discarded very fast


    her killing witches to gain power seems interesting for someone who is a trickster but why didn't her mother or anyone else have that kind of power as well?

    why did she need to have them attack her if she was always going to get the darkhold and why do people think she sacrificed her kid to get it, when by what they showed she killed every other witch who saw her kid?

    wiccan finds that she and death were always together but the final episode says otherwise, and why didn't she even try to save her kid or teach him magic, but consistently kill people to "survive"
    Well we learnt her using that dark form of magic she was actually in control the entire time as when she blasted she seemed fine and was able to drain, also she couldnt save the kid as his time was up hence death showing but gave time and so she had more time with her son she killed other witches but as she said there was no way to heal him, so even though he had time she knew he was sick and should of died when born
  • OurobørosOurobøros Member Posts: 1,759 ★★★★★
    Eakomo said:

    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?

    the show sets up and mentions a lot of things that get discarded very fast


    her killing witches to gain power seems interesting for someone who is a trickster but why didn't her mother or anyone else have that kind of power as well?

    why did she need to have them attack her if she was always going to get the darkhold and why do people think she sacrificed her kid to get it, when by what they showed she killed every other witch who saw her kid?

    wiccan finds that she and death were always together but the final episode says otherwise, and why didn't she even try to save her kid or teach him magic, but consistently kill people to "survive"
    That's the thing, I believe Jack, the director is cooking something up, there are too many things left behind and they are important things. She might be saving it for another project, probably the one where Agatha will guide Billy, she'll probably end up telling her story to him
  • BendyBendy Member Posts: 7,004 ★★★★★

    Eakomo said:

    Can someone explain:



    Why is Agatha tricking witches to steal power in the first place? The first time was sorta inevitable, she didn’t know she could do it and it was self preservation. After that was she doing it to sustain herself or to get stronger? Or did she just hate witches and want to kill them all?

    Why did she say she couldn’t face Nicky? She didn’t do anything wrong, she got him more time than he would have had without Agatha asking Death to spare him.

    Why did Agatha become a ghost but not the other witches? A little exposition on this point might have helped me enjoy the finale more.

    How did Wiccan build the trials that required the other witches knowledge to solve? Was he subconsciously reading their minds to build the road and had no idea he was doing any of it?

    the show sets up and mentions a lot of things that get discarded very fast


    her killing witches to gain power seems interesting for someone who is a trickster but why didn't her mother or anyone else have that kind of power as well?

    why did she need to have them attack her if she was always going to get the darkhold and why do people think she sacrificed her kid to get it, when by what they showed she killed every other witch who saw her kid?

    wiccan finds that she and death were always together but the final episode says otherwise, and why didn't she even try to save her kid or teach him magic, but consistently kill people to "survive"
    That's the thing, I believe Jack, the director is cooking something up, there are too many things left behind and they are important things. She might be saving it for another project, probably the one where Agatha will guide Billy, she'll probably end up telling her story to him
    Thats interesting i feel she will mentor him to control the power hes destined to have to follow where he is to track tommy like she did with him to find him a body which he seemed he did
  • ButtehrsButtehrs Member Posts: 6,132 ★★★★★
    PT_99 said:

    I'm only here for that lesbian kiss 😳

    Death is an abstract entity though and can take any form it chooses. So I don't think it qualifies as a strictly lesbian kiss.
  • Shamir51Shamir51 Member Posts: 953 ★★★★
    PT_99 said:

    PT_99 said:

    I'm only here for that lesbian kiss 😳

    Are you 12?
    There's no age in appreciating affection, love and happiness.

    Same way there’s no age in being a sweaty perv?
  • CROSSHAIRSCROSSHAIRS Member Posts: 454
    edited November 1
    Why are we hiding spoilers when the word spoilers should be on the thread name
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