Negasonic incinerate doesn't count as normal incinerate

I'm trying the 7* Act 7 chapter 3 act 6 and it says incinerate and shock prevents instant regen.. Tigra still regen while under NTW passive incinerate. what gives kabam? passive incinerate isn't same as normal incinerate debuff? Is this a bug or the code wasn't program because DOT incinerate and passive incinerate were not introduced then. know that is bs right?

Comments

captain_rogers

Can you post the nodes. If it's selective timestream I think you need incinerate or shock DEBUFFS to stop regen. Nega inflict passive incinerate

psp742

Yup..its selective timestream.. if that is the case.. NTW is more useless than my original rating.. her damage isn't even equal to Beta Ray Bill nuke ability.. the low hp also makes it hard to justify ranking her up.. Sadly, i rank2 her and even add some sigs in her.

arifin74

"passive incinerate isn't same as normal incinerate debuff"

EdisonLaw

Passive =/= debuff

ahmynuts

Yup..its selective timestream.. if that is the case.. NTW is more useless than my original rating.. her damage isn't even equal to Beta Ray Bill nuke ability.. the low hp also makes it hard to justify ranking her up.. Sadly, i rank2 her and even add some sigs in her.

Bills shocks are also passives..

psp742

Is Shuri shock passive too? I remember before she got buff that she was meh..

Furrymoosen

Is Shuri shock passive too? I remember before she got buff that she was meh..

She can deal both debuffs and passives.

psp742

Passive =/= debuff

regular DOT can be shrug off while passive can't.. so shouldn't it be the better form of incinerate/ shock.. that is just weird, senseless and/ or crazy.. basically, it's saying regular DOT, incinerate, shock, plasma, etc is not greater variety. 😑 😒 🙄 😐 😳 😤

Feuerschwer

Shuri’s regular shocks are debuffs, but her critical shocks from the SP1 precisions are passive - so you’d mainly want to make sure you don’t convert all your debuffs with Shuri’s heavy, but otherwise she should be fine for selective timestream.

Furrymoosen

Passive =/= debuff
regular DOT can be shrug off while passive can't.. so shouldn't it be the better form of incinerate/ shock.. that is just weird, senseless and/ or crazy.. basically, it's saying regular DOT, incinerate, shock, plasma, etc is not greater variety. 😑 😒 🙄 😐 😳 😤

If I recall correctly, selective timestream came out prior to most passive DoT damage. There are also nodes that will say "[insert DoT type] effect" which would work for both debuffs and passives.
It is not that one is or should be better. They serve different functions in different champs to counter particular instances. Nodes are used to complicated fights and at times limit which champs can be used. It doesn't make a champion worse than another just because certain nodes impact each champ differently.

captain_rogers

If selective timestream is the problem use someone with passive heal block, like warlock or mysterio. The node only purifies debuffs but not passive.

And shuri is an amazing option since she can maintain shock for the entire fight. Also Archangel works if you keep the neurotoxin up while the regen triggers.

And if there is any passive regen rate modifications, like red mags against metals, it works as well.

Will3808

Unfortunately there are a whole bunch of nodes that require debuffs not passives. It’s annoying, but you just have to play around it.

psp742

I use Sunspot.. and he works pretty well.. didn't even rank3 him.

psp742

Just watched the Livestream and it seems Negasonic Teenage Warhead was deemed good in lieu of Dazzler who has much better damage.. oh well..
It would be cool if they add invulnerability to her when she is dashing at the opponent.

EdisonLaw

Passive =/= debuff
regular DOT can be shrug off while passive can't.. so shouldn't it be the better form of incinerate/ shock.. that is just weird, senseless and/ or crazy.. basically, it's saying regular DOT, incinerate, shock, plasma, etc is not greater variety. 😑 😒 🙄 😐 😳 😤

Same as Havok, armor up buffs stop his detonations, armor up passives don't. I know, Kabam logic doesn't make sense

DNA3000

Passive =/= debuff
regular DOT can be shrug off while passive can't.. so shouldn't it be the better form of incinerate/ shock.. that is just weird, senseless and/ or crazy.. basically, it's saying regular DOT, incinerate, shock, plasma, etc is not greater variety. 😑 😒 🙄 😐 😳 😤

I don't know why so many players think in these terms. This works better than that, so this should be the superior version of that.

Passive incinerate is not the superior form of incinerate debuffs. Debuffs are debuffs, and passives are passives.

Saying passive incinerate should be the better version of incinerate debuffs is literally like saying poison should be the better version of bleed, because it suppresses regeneration and bleed doesn't. Bleed is bleed and poison is poison.

Some things interact with buffs. Some things don't. Sometimes this works in your favor, sometimes it doesn't. That's why we have passive effects and buff effects: they work differently.

DNA3000

Passive =/= debuff
regular DOT can be shrug off while passive can't.. so shouldn't it be the better form of incinerate/ shock.. that is just weird, senseless and/ or crazy.. basically, it's saying regular DOT, incinerate, shock, plasma, etc is not greater variety. 😑 😒 🙄 😐 😳 😤
Same as Havok, armor up buffs stop his detonations, armor up passives don't. I know, Kabam logic doesn't make sense

That actually makes perfect sense, if you understand why passive effects even exist.

Once upon a time, we didn't even *see* passive effects. They were just there. It wasn't until much later that we got a sort of "holistic unified buff bar" that showed passive effects with the standard solid circle iconography. Passive effects were originally envisioned as a way to change stats or provide other effects mechanically in ways that were otherwise not intended to be "there."

Imagine, for example, you wanted to design a champion that, say, had a higher armor rating when fighting skill champs. How would you do that? You can't fiddle with the champion's stats, because that would always be there. You could write some code to say that when the opponent was skill class, increase armor rating by X. But how would you do that? You could add an effect that increased armor, but was triggered by this conditional. But none of this is supposed to be a thing that can be undone, just like you can't undo Colossus' armor. Its just there. So you create an effect that does this, but you don't tag it as a buff, because buffs will become visible to the player and will interact with abilities that affect buffs. So you flag it something else, like say, passive. Now it is invisible, doesn't interact with anything else, but does what you need it to do.

These days passive effect are visible and also sometimes interact with other things: the passive tag/classification evolved over time to become more standardized and more exposed to the players. But their original intent was to be the less interacting type of effect. That's why many effects interact with buffs but not passives. The original conceptual intent of passives was "don't interact with other stuff in general."

The idea that this is illogical is itself illogical. The only reason why some players balk at this is purely subjective: they feel all armor should stop detonations, just because. There's no logic behind that desire.

Damage types doesn't come in a hierarchy. We don't have bleed, then poison being the better bleed, then incinerate being the better poison. Effect types do not have a hierarchy either. We don't have buffs, then passives as the better version of buffs, then node effects as the better version of passives. Buff and passive are type tags: they are essentially colors. Each color is different, one color is not the better version of another color. Buffs are blue, passives are green. Blue armor prevent detonations. Green armor doesn't.

Demonzfyre

Yup..its selective timestream.. if that is the case.. NTW is more useless than my original rating.. her damage isn't even equal to Beta Ray Bill nuke ability.. the low hp also makes it hard to justify ranking her up.. Sadly, i rank2 her and even add some sigs in her.

You're basing that off of not being able to do one path in Act 7? Weird.

Magrailothos

Yup..its selective timestream.. if that is the case.. NTW is more useless than my original rating.. her damage isn't even equal to Beta Ray Bill nuke ability.. the low hp also makes it hard to justify ranking her up.. Sadly, i rank2 her and even add some sigs in her.

She may not work for selective time stream, but she'll be great for Lifecycle nodes.

And, you know... Every skill champ in the game...

You can't have everything in one champ, you know.

Average_Desi

Passive =/= debuff
regular DOT can be shrug off while passive can't.. so shouldn't it be the better form of incinerate/ shock.. that is just weird, senseless and/ or crazy.. basically, it's saying regular DOT, incinerate, shock, plasma, etc is not greater variety. 😑 😒 🙄 😐 😳 😤
Same as Havok, armor up buffs stop his detonations, armor up passives don't. I know, Kabam logic doesn't make sense

🤦‍♂️

psp742

If in normal situation, NTW answers most skill champions. but in AW, she is severely gimped by the nodes.. she is ok i guess but i doubt i will use her compared to my more dependable attackers.

BlackTuran

If in normal situation, NTW answers most skill champions. but in AW, she is severely gimped by the nodes.. she is ok i guess but i doubt i will use her compared to my more dependable attackers.

I use her literally every war on path 7