Spider punk buff details!

Pysical vulnerability increased from 25 -> 40% and duration increased from 15 seconds to 18 seconds.

I love spider punk as he is but his sp1 is currently almost useless. I love him getting any kind of tune up but I don't understand how increasing the physical vulnerability functions in making sp2 -> sp1 a valid cycle.
Sp2 cycling is still the best tactic imo
What do you guys think?

Comments

BigBlueOx

Yup his sp1 is useless

psp742

I thought that the sp1 burst the ruptures.. thats what after you place rupture stacks on the opponent.. you race to one bar and then sp1 to perform rupture burst.

dr2ws

Sp1 is quite important, it should always be Sp2 then Sp1, it’s definitely not useless and quite important in the rotation.

Ghostboytjie

Sp1 bursts the ruptures based on time remaining.

So sp3 = extends time + increases rupture.

Physical vulnerbility + Hulk relic = x3. Refresh with heavy and x4 ruptures then popping sp1 while their timer is far from expired = mega damage.

It all depends how fast you can race to sp1 after sp2

Sceptilemaniac

Sp1 bursts the ruptures based on time remaining.

So sp3 = extends time + increases rupture.

Physical vulnerbility + Hulk relic = x3. Refresh with heavy and x4 ruptures then popping sp1 while their timer is far from expired = mega damage.

It all depends how fast you can race to sp1 after sp2

Yes but does the burst deal more damage than the ruptures ticking down on their own?
If they don't, this rotation doesn't make much sense. You'd be better off keeping the damage going with another bar of power and and sp2.

Or am I not understanding it right?
@Ghostboytjie

Sachhyam257

Sp1 is quite important, it should always be Sp2 then Sp1, it’s definitely not useless and quite important in the rotation.

I disagree. The sp1 is not worth going for in most circumstances.

The burst dmg scales with time remaining on ruptures, and it consumes all ruptures on the opponent. To get the most out of the sp1, you'd have to build to just under 3 bars/ 2.9 bars of power, then throw sp2 - build the remaining bit of power - sp1.

It's a pointless race against time. If you delay throwing that sp1, or if the AI delays you (AI being the menace that it is, this WILL happen), the ruptures will tick down and the sp1 burst will deal no dmg.

Letting the ruptures tick their entire duration deals as much dmg as the burst anyway, so there is literally no need to rush and get the sp1 off in the first place. It probably saves you a few seconds at most in the best case scenario (when the sp1 knocks out the opponent). In longer fights where the sp2-sp1 does not deal enough dmg to knock the opponent out, it literally sets you back by 1 bar of power. You could've been halfway to another sp2, but you squander it doing the sp1 tickle dmg.

Going for it only makes sense for bg healthpools, but even then I'd still recommend going for the double sp2 (it's difficult to discern the exact amount of dmg the sp1 will deal at any given time, if it doesn't kill, it puts u at disadvantage).

Imo it is best to cycle sp2s at your own tempo, and it looks like it will still be best going forward.

Sceptilemaniac

Sp1 is quite important, it should always be Sp2 then Sp1, it’s definitely not useless and quite important in the rotation.
I disagree. The sp1 is not worth going for in most circumstances.

The burst dmg scales with time remaining on ruptures, and it consumes all ruptures on the opponent. To get the most out of the sp1, you'd have to build to just under 3 bars/ 2.9 bars of power, then throw sp2 - build the remaining bit of power - sp1.

It's a pointless race against time. If you delay throwing that sp1, or if the AI delays you (AI being the menace that it is, this WILL happen), the ruptures will tick down and the sp1 burst will deal no dmg.

Letting the ruptures tick their entire duration deals as much dmg as the burst anyway, so there is literally no need to rush and get the sp1 off in the first place. It probably saves you a few seconds at most in the best case scenario (when the sp1 knocks out the opponent). In longer fights where the sp2-sp1 does not deal enough dmg to knock the opponent out, it literally sets you back by 1 bar of power. You could've been halfway to another sp2, but you squander it doing the sp1 tickle dmg.

Going for it only makes sense for bg healthpools, but even then I'd still recommend going for the double sp2 (it's difficult to discern the exact amount of dmg the sp1 will deal at any given time, if it doesn't kill, it puts u at disadvantage).

Imo it is best to cycle sp2s at your own tempo, and it looks like it will still be best going forward.

Exactly my point. I appreciate the buff but it does nothing to help with the problem pointed out by kabam themselves.
It would make sense if the sp1 dealt 10%ish more damage per physical vulnerability on the opponent.
Shame, seeing how good the sp1 animation is too.

Sachhyam257

it's difficult to discern the exact amount of dmg the sp1 will deal at any given time

More on this, spider punk's dmg has 2 dependencies: crowd members (increases rupture potency) and physical vulnerabilities on the opponent (reduces their physical resistance, letting a physical dot like ruptures deal more dmg).

The crowd charges go up as the match progresses, and the discrepancy between the low charge rupture dmg and high charge is quite big. The physical vulnerabilites debuffs will usually stay at 2 stacks (or 3 with the hulk relic) if you've been keeping up with intercepts. These debuffs do make a difference, so having them up is fairly important.

The sp1, then has two additional dependencies, number of rupture stacks and time. This one is annoying because we have no clue how it scales. At what point does the sp1 burst do what dmg? You're guaranteed to lose a few secs between sp2 and sp1, but how much time lost is too much time lost?

Now, when trying to gauge the sp1 dmg at any given moment, you'll have to account for 4 variables, 1 of which you have no clue how it even adds up. I've had moments where I've been completely baffled by the amount of dmg that comes out of sp1 (not in a good way). Like 5k per burst? In this economy??? The range of dmg it can muster is so dumb, it's anywhere between 3k - 20k per burst at r5 ascended sig200. Wth.

His sp1 is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're gonna get.

Sceptilemaniac

Wishful thinking but if his sp1 didn't consume the ruptures, he would definitely stand true to the 4.5 damage rating.

Ghostboytjie

Im pretty sure that the burst scales with vulnerbility. And that it does more than it would have over the duration (correct me if im wrong). If you play it right on long fights its sp3 - sp2 - sp1 - sp2 spam. If you aren't fast enough on sp1 then sure sp2 rotation is the better option. Remember his dupe gives another rupture if he would inflict encore. 4 with perfect sp2. You can have from what ive gotten. A max of 6 ruptures

DrZola

I took mine to R2 in anticipation. I’m happy I stopped there.

Dr. Zola

ahmynuts

I took mine to R2 in anticipation. I’m happy I stopped there.

Dr. Zola

He is r3 worthy even before these changes. Massively slept on due to people who haven't used him anywhere or barely used him at all hating on him

Sceptilemaniac

I took mine to R2 in anticipation. I’m happy I stopped there.

Dr. Zola

I duped him from my last titan. Was doubtful at first but he's quickly becoming my favourite to play.
I hope for a generic 2->3 in banquet for him.

Kerneas

Looks fine. See you when I dupp my 7*...

ahmynuts

I took mine to R2 in anticipation. I’m happy I stopped there.

Dr. Zola
I duped him from my last titan. Was doubtful at first but he's quickly becoming my favourite to play.
I hope for a generic 2->3 in banquet for him.

Sceptilemaniac

I took mine to R2 in anticipation. I’m happy I stopped there.

Dr. Zola
I duped him from my last titan. Was doubtful at first but he's quickly becoming my favourite to play.
I hope for a generic 2->3 in banquet for him.

And I already have a r5a sig 200 6 star lol

DrZola

@ahmynuts and @Sceptilemaniac I’m willing to give it some time and practice. However, I wish the buff had addressed some of the disconnects noted above with his Sp1.

But with my Nefaria, Ham, Silk and QS at R3 science already, he may have to wait a bit even if he’s worthwhile.

Dr. Zola

ahmynuts

@ahmynuts and @Sceptilemaniac I’m willing to give it some time and practice. However, I wish the buff had addressed some of the disconnects noted above with his Sp1.

But with my Nefaria, Ham, Silk and QS at R3 science already, he may have to wait a bit even if he’s worthwhile.

Dr. Zola

I agree on the buff. I don't really think the intended rotation will be better than just cycling SP2, but it'll be easier to tell when we can actually get our hands on it and try it out. He definitely flies under the radar, especially on BG defense. He slaps left and right on defense for some reason every season lmao.
But I would take Nefaria up over him if i had him

captain_rogers

I'm falling love in luke nowadays easily my most used science champ idk why peeps are still sleeping on him.

RockSlyde

I don't think we can judge the buff quite yet, not until we get a feel for it. Depending on how he's coded it's possible that the SP1 gets compounding value from better vulnerabilities, since it may further increase the burst damage from further increased rupture damage. I hope he becomes a mainstay BG attacker, but we will have to see. If he still falls below the mark, I do hope Kabam will take another swing at a small tune up since Punk is such a popular character

ChuckD05

I have an r3. I liked Punk before and I like him now but IMHO the “Buff” isn’t going to change the way I use him or improve him in any meaningful way. Definitely a let down, unless I’m missing something.

Sachhyam257

Just tried out the buff, I'm definitely happy with the dmg bump. I was in the minority who thought he was pretty good pre-buff, so any improvement is a W for me.

The sp1 dmg has also been bumped as a result, so it has more range now, which is nice. But letting the ruptures tick out still does around the same amount as the sp1, so I'll personally just stick to doing sp2s only. I don't mind that, I prefer the sp2 anyway.

Trillionaire6

Not increasing the rupture duration seems counter productive to the points they addressed. I get that increasing the vulnerability duration might help in some cases, but you likely already have those applied and the added duration to that isn't what needed to be improved. Losing the duration on your ruptures trying to get back to sp1 is the problem and this in no way solves that.

EdisonLaw

It's a surprisingly good buff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6tpEEpx-sc