Leader patriot thoughts

Johnnoooooo

So as an owner of a R2 leader and a R5 max sig and ascended patriot, I've used these 2 champs everywhere, including bgs where I'm currently sitting in mysterium 1, and though I've not always understood why you choose to balance certain champs, but it's kind of always panned out.. now with the leader and patriot, I've found patriot to be decent, and the leader overwhelmingly lack luster in all his target match ups and truly believe you've got it wrong on this occasion.. unfortunately I'll be benching my leader and he'll gather dust, which is so unfortunate, as he has some of the best looking specials, and his concept is incredible and he's so enjoyable to play.. Small tune up to his furies would do the champ so many favours as he hits like a 5 star ramped up and his power reversal damage just tickles. but hey ho, another balance update another disappointment.. however I enjoy patriot and him getting a buff is a bonus but the leader needs it way more imo, and he was my first ever pre release purchase, I do really enjoy him..
What's everyone else's thoughts..

EdisonLaw

They said Leader isn’t getting rebalanced but Patriot is

Johnnoooooo

EdisonLaw said:

They said Leader isn’t getting rebalanced but Patriot is

I know.. and like I said, I think of all the champs released and getting balanced, leader and sable need it the most (and yes, I know sable is)

Squidopus

Look man, all I’m gonna say is that saying Leader needed the buff more than Patriot is crazy.

Johnnoooooo

Squidopus said:

Look man, all I’m gonna say is that saying Leader needed the buff more than Patriot is crazy.

I respect what you say, and this is my opinion, and I've taken both champs into various different content, and I've had some decent success with patriot in things like bgs, however, my R2 leader consistently timeout in bgs against his TARGET match ups

Ben_15455

The leader is straight ass. He sucks

Squidopus

Johnnoooooo said:

Squidopus said:

Look man, all I’m gonna say is that saying Leader needed the buff more than Patriot is crazy.

I respect what you say, and this is my opinion, and I've taken both champs into various different content, and I've had some decent success with patriot in things like bgs, however, my R2 leader consistently timeout in bgs against his TARGET match ups

Leader isn’t really a bgs champ besides as a defender. In other contexts I think he’s fine enough, and if I’m being completely honest if you’re timing out in target matchups then you’re doing something wrong. My maxed 6* usually gets 60-70 second fights in general matchups and closer to 45-60 in target matchups. That’s not really good, but that’s hardly timeout.



This is one of the few times I timed out with Leader. You know what meta this is? The crit me meta. Against Man-thing, who is absurdly tanky, in a meta where Leader can’t use any of his degens, regen reversal, or power dissolve. If he can put up this much with his measly basic hit damage, he can end fights in normal circumstances.

I think this is just gonna have to be a difference in perspective either way. Personally, I value utility. Patriot really only had damage going for him, and I can easily name fifty champs who do more damage than him. Leader does utility like ability power rate reversal. You can name several champs and argue they do that utility better, but you certainly can’t name fifty. In my eyes, that makes Leader better by default.

Squidopus

I guess as proof, here’s some bg fights with Leader I’ve done across various metas, all against at least equal or higher rank opponents. Again, not saying these are great times, I mostly use Leader because I want to rather than him being optimal, but these are not close to timeouts.







Notably, the Man-thing, Kindred, and Mephisto fights were all with indomitable (no heal reversal) and I went sp3 instead of sp2 because I was testing his general-purpose degen damage.

EdisonLaw

Squidopus said:

I guess as proof, here’s some bg fights with Leader I’ve done across various metas, all against at least equal or higher rank opponents. Again, not saying these are great times, I mostly use Leader because I want to rather than him being optimal, but these are not close to timeouts.







Notably, the Man-thing, Kindred, and Mephisto fights were all with indomitable (no heal reversal) and I went sp3 instead of sp2 because I was testing his general-purpose degen damage.

Personally I think they should have increased his fury potency by a tiny bit

Squidopus

EdisonLaw said:

Squidopus said:

I guess as proof, here’s some bg fights with Leader I’ve done across various metas, all against at least equal or higher rank opponents. Again, not saying these are great times, I mostly use Leader because I want to rather than him being optimal, but these are not close to timeouts.







Notably, the Man-thing, Kindred, and Mephisto fights were all with indomitable (no heal reversal) and I went sp3 instead of sp2 because I was testing his general-purpose degen damage.

Personally I think they should have increased his fury potency by a tiny bit

No arguments there, I’ve said multiple times across different threads Leader should’ve gotten a tuneup, I just resent people blatantly lying (whether out of malice or ignorance) and saying his damage is so bad he can’t kill bgs opponents.

Johnnoooooo

Squidopus said:

EdisonLaw said:

Squidopus said:

I guess as proof, here’s some bg fights with Leader I’ve done across various metas, all against at least equal or higher rank opponents. Again, not saying these are great times, I mostly use Leader because I want to rather than him being optimal, but these are not close to timeouts.







Notably, the Man-thing, Kindred, and Mephisto fights were all with indomitable (no heal reversal) and I went sp3 instead of sp2 because I was testing his general-purpose degen damage.

Personally I think they should have increased his fury potency by a tiny bit

No arguments there, I’ve said multiple times across different threads Leader should’ve gotten a tuneup, I just resent people blatantly lying (whether out of malice or ignorance) and saying his damage is so bad he can’t kill bgs opponents.

I like to see this, maybe I've been using him for his regen and power dissolve and that's why I'm timing out, I'm not doing the Degen rotation.. I'm in the same boat, I use him because I like him, he's certainly not optimal..
But my point I believe still stands, I find patriot alot more useable.. but, we all play the game differently, but a heck of alot of people are gutted the leader isn't getting love.. I can see him getting buffed in the future.. seems like people only use him alot based on the fact he's unique..

PT_99

If I pull Leader I'll be very sad

JLordVileJ

Leader is trash

smdam38

I actually like Patriot.

EdisonLaw

smdam38 said:

I actually like Patriot.

Do you use him much though?

Armageddøn

Dayum i recently pulled leader out of a titan and the rebalancing news is as the cavalier players will quote "slap on the face"

smdam38

I honestly don’t.
Haven’t had him long though.

I’m not a rush through everything and hit high level pvp stuff either.

Wanting or needing specific champions in a game full of hundreds means some that will be what you’d consider duds.

Game is not just for you or just the end game players and whales.

The whales got their serpents and bullseyes. Then got their NGTW, spirals and such.

There are other people that just like the characters and want to have fun just playing the game.

Rudolph_Raindeer

I pulled Patriot after my last featured pull was Silver Sabre. Happy times 🤢🤮

Armageddøn

Rudolph_Raindeer said:

I pulled Patriot after my last featured pull was Silver Sabre. Happy times 🤢🤮

Skill issue

WednesdayLength

I use leader a hell of a lot, probably my favourite champion of the year, and I think he's fine. He pops off in target matches, had solid damage in non target matchups and I've found his healing and power gain control to be really potent and the dissolve leads to sons bonkers damage in the right matchup

Azdef

WednesdayLength said:

I use leader a hell of a lot, probably my favourite champion of the year, and I think he's fine. He pops off in target matches, had solid damage in non target matchups and I've found his healing and power gain control to be really potent and the dissolve leads to sons bonkers damage in the right matchup

Any specific rotation? And is he good enough unduped?

Squidopus

Azdef said:

WednesdayLength said:

I use leader a hell of a lot, probably my favourite champion of the year, and I think he's fine. He pops off in target matches, had solid damage in non target matchups and I've found his healing and power gain control to be really potent and the dissolve leads to sons bonkers damage in the right matchup

Any specific rotation? And is he good enough unduped?

LLL backdraft intercept repeat. Keeps the opponent in roughly the same place (over the green door) and builds his debuffs. Add a medium or remove a light from the combo to adjust positioning as necessary. If you’ve played Abs man, it’s a similar feel but with emphasis on positioning. Then you just throw whichever special is needed, sp1 or sp2 for the utility or sp3 for general damage. If you’re going sp3, try to throw it just before the green door closes.

Personally, I would not use him unduped. The extra debuff when light intercepting is a big deal since it speeds up his rate of inflicting debuffs by up to 50%, which is very relevant for both his damage and utility. That and without the dupe he doesn’t get access to his steadfast, which is absolutely one of his best qualities imo. I don’t think he needs max sig necessarily, but you want it as high as possible.