Can I make an IRL robot that plays MCOC for a highschool robotics contest, or will I get banned?

Hello! I'm currently in highschool and am involved in my highschool robotics team. We're all making teams and proposing projects for the spring, and I had an idea for a robot which uses computer vision to play video games, primarily on the iphone because tapping & swiping are easier mechanical functions than console controllers. Would we be allowed to make this sort of robot, or would this be considered cheating per the terms and conditions? To be clear, this would NOT be a software bot like some people have used for things like necropolis (not sure how those even work, haha). It would be an IRL robot taking video of the game and processing it live. We want to stay within the rules here.

Comments

Darthbane3141

Don't use your own account and even if you get banned, it won't harm you. I really like the idea tho, it's interesting

Furrymoosen

I'd probably just create a throw-away account on a phone that isn't used for any other MCoC accounts. At the end of the day, it would be literally impossible for them to tell that it isn't a person playing the game because they can't see you and everything else will be normal. And no literal robot is going to outplay MSD and he hasn't been banned. But always better to take precautions, just in case.

DNA3000

Hello! I'm currently in highschool and am involved in my highschool robotics team. We're all making teams and proposing projects for the spring, and I had an idea for a robot which uses computer vision to play video games, primarily on the iphone because tapping & swiping are easier mechanical functions than console controllers. Would we be allowed to make this sort of robot, or would this be considered cheating per the terms and conditions? To be clear, this would NOT be a software bot like some people have used for things like necropolis (not sure how those even work, haha). It would be an IRL robot taking video of the game and processing it live. We want to stay within the rules here.

As far as I am aware, there’s no specific rule prohibiting this, so long as the robot has its own account.

The rules applicable to this situation are:

- You cannot share accounts with any other player
- You cannot modify the game code or resources in any way
- You must play on authorized and supported platforms only
- You may not violate fair play as determined by Kabam’s sole discretion

Note: I am not an official representative of Kabam, and this is just my own personal interpretation of the rules. I have no authority or discretion in this matter.

In my own personal judgment, you’d be reasonably safe if:

1. The robot has its own account that it, and only it, ever plays.
2. The robot does not join an alliance with other human players.
3. The robot does not enter any competitive game mode, including Battlegrounds and Arena.

At worst, the robot itself might get banned. But if it is playing its own account, that shouldn’t be a problem. You might want to consider getting the robot its own phone though, because you don’t want it playing on your own personal device. I would imagine you’d be doing that anyway, as you wouldn’t want a robotic mistake to crush your own personal phone.

Again: I am not a Kabam representative, and I am only expressing my opinion. I have no responsibility for or discretion to regulate fair play on MCOC. This is just the opinion of someone who has been around the block many times. Personally though, I wouldn’t mind seeing this actually work.

Herbal_Taxman

How fast can a robot become valiant? Sounds like a content opportunity to me.

SummonerNR

Who's got a picture of that Test Module (mechanical tapping device) that Kabam made a while back for testing out control responsiveness (or some such thing) some years ago ?

kvirr

How fast can a robot become valiant? Sounds like a content opportunity to me.

YouTube series ??

but if you do end up doing this, and feel comfortable with doing what I’m proposing pls share the video here, I would love to see

peixemacaco

Normax_X

yeah make an alt tho

JESUSCHRIST

I don't think it's possible at the high school level for a project

Said computer vision is something very advanced in the field of computer engineering

Self driving cars uses cameras and LiDAR to see the surroundings and these are very advanced technologies and software

You might just end up with a robot that just tap and swipe a phone screen but can't win matches against Kabam's advanced AI bcos it can't really interpret what's going on in the game

Frumpy_geezer

I've thought about this as well and I'm concept it's not that difficult. Especially if you turn on the setting that shows the last move made. It's possible that you could capture that with a camera and directly counter it. There are a lot of other variables though like distance to the defender, baiting specials, current status (unstoppable, unblockable, etc.)… all of this and then every champions kit, current nodes, and more.

But I think if it's for a school project. The beginning of the game does not have all of this and a proof of concept would be more than reasonable. If you could get it to win more than 50% and show that it doing some things like parry, dex, intercept somewhat effectively, then you will get an A.

Thorki

Thanks for all the feedback guys! I think we're going to go for it. We have a bit of budget all together so I think we could afford to buy a really old iphone, hopefully the oldest one that runs the right IOS for the game. I'll do some research.

Huge thanks to DNA3000- I understand that you aren't an official representative from Kabam but you're obviously very well versed here.

I'll try and update the community on the progress we make (if any is made at all! You're right JESUSCHRIST, it might be beyond our abilities, we'll see).

DNA3000

I don't think it's possible at the high school level for a project

Said computer vision is something very advanced in the field of computer engineering

Self driving cars uses cameras and LiDAR to see the surroundings and these are very advanced technologies and software

You might just end up with a robot that just tap and swipe a phone screen but can't win matches against Kabam's advanced AI bcos it can't really interpret what's going on in the game

If the technology that exists today existed when I was in high school, I would almost certainly have attempted this myself by now. I say that as someone that has already investigated things like open source vision systems to analyze the security camera footage for my own house. The state of the art is pretty good in that area. It would be more challenging to build and program the mechanics than the vision part.

Also, there is no advanced AI controlling MCOC’s defenders.

DoctorDoom2099

Honestly, there should be no point of why you would get banned because its technically your still playing it then make the robot and have fun with it let it do battlegrounds, ROL etc

Alone13

How would they even know if a robot is playing? It’s not like an AI that plays through software. Robot is a 'real-life object' that mimics human behavior to play. I don’t think they would have even noticed if you hadn’t made a post here, imo.

PT_99

People have resorted to making their own AI to handle Kebem's out of control AI

GroundedWisdom

Who's got a picture of that Test Module (mechanical tapping device) that Kabam made a while back for testing out control responsiveness (or some such thing) some years ago ?

Sir Taps-A-Lot

phillgreen

Two of Homer Simpsons birds-that-drink-water should have it sorted it in 10 minutes, its not like you're trying to vent explosive gases...

JESUSCHRIST

Let's examine this idea

Is it possible?
Yes it is possible but it will take a good amount of resources to get it done perfectly

Can it be done with a budget, yes you can but the results will be sub par, is that sufficient for a high school project, I think so

So you mount a phone and a camera facing the phone screen

The camera feeds 60 FPS to a computer, you need to code a software that can interpret what is going on in the game from the images it receives

The computer needs to have the processing power to process the images and decides what to do, the computer sends the instructions to 2 or maybe 4 mechanical arms that can do the actions that a human does with mechanical fingers

Tapping, holding a tap, swiping etc

The mechanical fingers need to exert the right amount of pressure and react fast enough to fight against the AI if not you will never win a single fight

As a high school project, that's massive amount of work to do, still worth trying maybe

Outside of the high school project, can the entire setup replaces a human grinding arena, yes it can but with the amount of resources thrown into it, you need to grind a tremendous amount of units to get your investment back

captain_rogers

I feel sorry for your cousins🥲

Frumpy_geezer

I feel like with modern technology and tutorials with raspberry pi and other cheap technologies with the help of the internet and Ai coding... This won't be very difficult. 7 years ago my final project for my bachelor's was creating proof of concept for a camera that detected empty parking lot spaces. This is similar and can be done probably a lot easier than ours (we used python and none of us had any experience with it).

You might start with the training mission that teaches parry.

Good luck. I'm rooting for you.

DNA3000

How would they even know if a robot is playing? It’s not like an AI that plays through software. Robot is a 'real-life object' that mimics human behavior to play. I don’t think they would have even noticed if you hadn’t made a post here, imo.

This is the same question every modder and cheat asks, before they get banned.

I pose the reverse question: do you know everything Kabam looks for when they look for cheating? Can you be sure nothing a robotics team ever does would ever do any of those things. It is always the thing you don’t think of that is the thing you get caught for.

Here’s an obvious one: you leave the robot running and forget to turn it off, and it plays for seventy-two hours straight. Now, of course it seems unlikely anyone would test a robot in this fashion, but the question is: did you think of it in the first place?

DNA3000

Let's examine this idea

Is it possible?
Yes it is possible but it will take a good amount of resources to get it done perfectly

Can it be done with a budget, yes you can but the results will be sub par, is that sufficient for a high school project, I think so

So you mount a phone and a camera facing the phone screen

The camera feeds 60 FPS to a computer, you need to code a software that can interpret what is going on in the game from the images it receives

The computer needs to have the processing power to process the images and decides what to do, the computer sends the instructions to 2 or maybe 4 mechanical arms that can do the actions that a human does with mechanical fingers

Tapping, holding a tap, swiping etc

The mechanical fingers need to exert the right amount of pressure and react fast enough to fight against the AI if not you will never win a single fight

As a high school project, that's massive amount of work to do, still worth trying maybe

Outside of the high school project, can the entire setup replaces a human grinding arena, yes it can but with the amount of resources thrown into it, you need to grind a tremendous amount of units to get your investment back

Sure.

So @Thorki, what’s your robotics core software engine in your class? Are they using ROS, or something more streamlined? I remember stumbling upon that when I was looking at OpenCV a few years ago, specifically when analyzing the question of how complex could bots reasonably get in less than expert hands. Man, I wish this stuff existed back when I was in high school. I would be having so much fun (and also probably be completely banned by now).

startropics

sounds like a fun project OP, gl. can you program it to make a why am i banned thread too?

Toproller89

Robot playing MCOC doesn’t break terms of service much in the same way that a mechanical autoclicker doesn’t break terms of service because it is not third party software and it isn’t a human being, I could be wrong though but that’s my interpretation, I remember rich the man doing a segment on a mechanical machine that plays arena on its own

Little_Crocodili29

Who's got a picture of that Test Module (mechanical tapping device) that Kabam made a while back for testing out control responsiveness (or some such thing) some years ago ?

They called it SirTapsaLot I think 🙄

I'm still not sure if it was a troll or a really serious silly time waster of an idea. The game was on fire (not the good kind) and they were placing big hopes on what sounded to me exactly like a high school science project experiment...

But for a true school project I think it's a great idea @Thorki 😁 Good luck!

Odachi

The legomindstorms are great for this kind of thing, the cameras are good enough and simple to code. There's a cool video of one doing chrome dino jump using the camera to detect objects and it presses space bar.
Obviously for a mobile device need a capacative touch device like a stylus.
Don't have a stylus? Then I've seen videos where a piece of raw chicken on a motor (or even a drill) is spun to auto swipe tinder 😂

jurxd

Who's got a picture of that Test Module (mechanical tapping device) that Kabam made a while back for testing out control responsiveness (or some such thing) some years ago ?

Here it is. They named him "Tapsalot"
More info here:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/281785/input-system-update-sept-2021-engine-upgrades-robots-and-more

Eb0ny-O-M4w

If isn't you playing in your account, then its bannable

EdisonLaw

I'd probably just create a throw-away account on a phone that isn't used for any other MCoC accounts. At the end of the day, it would be literally impossible for them to tell that it isn't a person playing the game because they can't see you and everything else will be normal. And no literal robot is going to outplay MSD and he hasn't been banned. But always better to take precautions, just in case.

No one is better than MSD

JackTheSnack

I don't think it's possible at the high school level for a project

Said computer vision is something very advanced in the field of computer engineering

Self driving cars uses cameras and LiDAR to see the surroundings and these are very advanced technologies and software

You might just end up with a robot that just tap and swipe a phone screen but can't win matches against Kabam's advanced AI bcos it can't really interpret what's going on in the game

How are we ever supposed to have innovation and anything new technology wise if the younger generation at the time doesn’t pioneer things. If you looked back 50 years I bet you people would tell you that you were crazy to think we’d have mini computers in our pockets with games on them. Yet here we are. Besides, with AI Agents nowadays integrated into a physical robot with Lidar and a brain capable of making judgement calls….let the kid dream. Could be the next Elon or even Einstein…or the next programmer for a viral video game like MCOC