Revisiting AW potions again 2025 edition

Kabam,
Time to talk AW potions again. previously there was a rough plan to update and reduce cost/increase limits/increase healed amount or even possibility of percentage based.

Last time there was an improvement was season 47 (from my own post history) with Lvl5s introduced to the loyaty store one year ago. Don't think there have been any communications on this since.

Since then we have moved to 7R4s (7R3s is in every deck).. 100k healthpools are common (unboosted) .. the largest loyalty potion is 14000 for lvl5s and largest for units is Lvl6 is only 20000.

Add to the fact we have drastic map revamps causing much more deaths after the easiest 2 seasons in memory. Even without dying, or especially without dying the damage taken has become very costly to heal to full. Just two wars in, i can see the alliance getting

Its time to buff the potions , change how they heal and or modify the cost and item limit. I understand we have alot of issues to address in game but this needs to be addressed too as healthpools keep increasing.

Thank you for listening.. i hope a change can occur by the start of the next war season.

Comments

PT_99

Expecting Kebem to buff potions after giving us most random but juiced up war nodes is being optimistic but in bad way 😭

Chief_Wiggum

Yes i am being optimistic, but expecting it?
not what i said in the post.. as a war planner i enjoy the challenge of new nodes, just want to voice that this should be matched by other adjustments previously discussed.

ButteredPopcorn8008

With the new team running things I dont see them updating the potions for war anymore. It would cost them to much money in the monetizing era

pseudosane

I agree with this. Health pots are way outdated and heal piddly amounts compared to healthpools. It is a bad stretch when im hoping for those 500 unit deals for pots for the season.

startropics

kabam has made an insane amount of proplayer moves for aw the last few years that should be applauded:

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/353074/kabam-appreciation-post#latest

that said, if we’re going by history we’re not going to see a potion change until we hit r5s and without massive boycott vibes from the community first.

it’s always been like this. potions are always 1-2 ranks/1-2 years behind the meta and it always takes legit community-wide threats of boycott before anything changes.

startropics

if anyone remembers, war potions used to cost glory (260 to heal 6k health) and they weren't updated for 5 years. not exaggerating, the glory store came out in may 2017 and it wasn't updated until 2022.

by 2022, players were starving for an update and when it finally happened they switched currencies to loyalty and really capped the amount we could buy, which forced unit use and there was a huge backlash and then kabam quickly improved it. you can read about some if it here (https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300311/alliance-wars-season-33-changelog-rewards-update-loyalty-store-and-glory-store-updates/p1).

5 years of inflation was a lot but it was softened by weekly compensation. for about a year in 2021, they gave us war potions, grey boosts, and huge chunks of loyalty that kept inflation hidden.

in general, potions are always 1-2 or steps behind ranks and it's by design. i'd bet we don't see an update until early next year shortly after r5s hit the game. until then we'll get the occasional complaint post that goes nowhere until over time it ramps up, starts bubbling up, and then boiling over lol.

ButteredPopcorn8008

if anyone remembers, war potions used to cost glory (260 to heal 6k health) and they weren't updated for 5 years. not exaggerating, the glory store came out in may 2017 and it wasn't updated until 2022.

by 2022, players were starving for an update and when it finally happened they switched currencies to loyalty and really capped the amount we could buy, which forced unit use and there was a huge backlash and then kabam quickly improved it. you can read about some if it here (https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300311/alliance-wars-season-33-changelog-rewards-update-loyalty-store-and-glory-store-updates/p1).

5 years of inflation was a lot but it was softened by weekly compensation. for about a year in 2021, they gave us war potions, grey boosts, and huge chunks of loyalty that kept inflation hidden.

in general, potions are always 1-2 or steps behind ranks and it's by design. i'd bet we don't see an update until early next year shortly after r5s hit the game. until then we'll get the occasional complaint post that goes nowhere until over time it ramps up, starts bubbling up, and then boiling over lol.

It’s pathetic that this is 100 percent true.

pseudosane

if anyone remembers, war potions used to cost glory (260 to heal 6k health) and they weren't updated for 5 years. not exaggerating, the glory store came out in may 2017 and it wasn't updated until 2022.

by 2022, players were starving for an update and when it finally happened they switched currencies to loyalty and really capped the amount we could buy, which forced unit use and there was a huge backlash and then kabam quickly improved it. you can read about some if it here (https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300311/alliance-wars-season-33-changelog-rewards-update-loyalty-store-and-glory-store-updates/p1).

5 years of inflation was a lot but it was softened by weekly compensation. for about a year in 2021, they gave us war potions, grey boosts, and huge chunks of loyalty that kept inflation hidden.

in general, potions are always 1-2 or steps behind ranks and it's by design. i'd bet we don't see an update until early next year shortly after r5s hit the game. until then we'll get the occasional complaint post that goes nowhere until over time it ramps up, starts bubbling up, and then boiling over lol.

yeah, I remember. However, the war map is probably one of the toughest we have had, and there is no harm airing concerns and starting the process now so that that level of frustration isnt reached.

Chief_Wiggum

yeah, I remember. However, the war map is probably one of the toughest we have had, and there is no harm airing concerns and starting the process now so that that level of frustration isnt reached.

Thank you, that's why I posted.. To start the discussion now while the issue is present and not critical. Not leave it until everyone is foaming at the mouth.

Let's have constructive with discussions with kabam on this and not just finger point at past wrongs.

@KabamDORK
@kabam(Osaurus)Rex

startropics

if anyone remembers, war potions used to cost glory (260 to heal 6k health) and they weren't updated for 5 years. not exaggerating, the glory store came out in may 2017 and it wasn't updated until 2022.

by 2022, players were starving for an update and when it finally happened they switched currencies to loyalty and really capped the amount we could buy, which forced unit use and there was a huge backlash and then kabam quickly improved it. you can read about some if it here (https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/300311/alliance-wars-season-33-changelog-rewards-update-loyalty-store-and-glory-store-updates/p1).

5 years of inflation was a lot but it was softened by weekly compensation. for about a year in 2021, they gave us war potions, grey boosts, and huge chunks of loyalty that kept inflation hidden.

in general, potions are always 1-2 or steps behind ranks and it's by design. i'd bet we don't see an update until early next year shortly after r5s hit the game. until then we'll get the occasional complaint post that goes nowhere until over time it ramps up, starts bubbling up, and then boiling over lol.
yeah, I remember. However, the war map is probably one of the toughest we have had, and there is no harm airing concerns and starting the process now so that that level of frustration isnt reached.

100%, and i hope it’s addressed before it becomes a big problem but i think that lagging potions is a feature and not a bug. pain is the point.

economy issues are almost never addressed until enough players complain and we’re nowhere close to that unfortunately. a lot players might feel it but until there’s enough resentment they let it ride.

TyEdge

The game economy is influenced by supply and demand.

The shoddy potion system reduces the number of alliances demanding that players spend on potions. It isn’t terribly practical so we opt out. Many others do the same.

startropics

The game economy is influenced by supply and demand.

the problem is there’s a supply of potions outside the loyalty currency that kabam wants players to use.

the highest single potion heals for 20k and costs units and the highest with loyalty heals for 15k. if they buffed loyalty potions to a comfortable and “fair” level, fewer players would spend units which would make them pointless

…or they’d have to ramp up map difficulty even more to force item use and if the map gets difficult enough to become an item-out risk each war, players would be forced to use the unit ones.

lagging loyalty potions is partly how they monetize the mode and unfortunately for 90%+ of us we have to wait until everyone shows up with pitchforks before they do something.

im not saying i like this but this is how it’s always been. if you guys can somehow create enough awareness and legitimate grievance it might force the issue earlier but a few posts on the forum this early on won’t.

i could be wrong but they don’t really budge on economy stuff like this.

DNA3000

AW health potions are less influenced by economic reasons and more because of how war is balanced.

The largest determining factor in deciding who wins a war, especially is higher tiers, is attacker deaths. We do have tie breakers. but the devs do not want wars decided too often on tie breakers. They want wars decided on direct scoring. That means the worst thing that can happen is a zero-zero tie, where no one dies. The difficulty of war is tuned to try to make sure enough players die to make sure there is a clear winner in a war.

You might think that a 1-0 war where one person dies is at least decisive so that's fine and we don't need too many players to die in war, but in fact what used to happen in the past was when wars were decided by super close and super low scores that put enormous pressure on players to never die, because when a war ends 1-0, one single player among 60 players decided that war. It was their fault their alliance lost. A 5-4 war or a 6-7 war is also decided by one player, but you can't easily point your finger at whose fault it is. There's less singular pressure and singular blame. This is a thing that came up a lot in war discussions.

So unlike almost any other content, war is designed to kill players. It is *necessary* that players die, and if not enough players die war is deemed to not be working correctly, especially at the very top. It isn't that the devs literally want to kill players, but they believe that's the only way war works correctly.

It was this line of thought that I pried open to convince the devs to make alliance war revives free. Because in war, unlike everywhere else, health potions and revives do completely different things. Everywhere else, revives and portions are both tools you can use to complete the content. Whether you choose to revive or heal is a mostly resource management decision. However, in war, that's not true. Health potions *prevent* death. Revives *recover from death*. Health potions change scoring. Revives don't. You can only use a revive if you die, and if you die you've already lost those points. A revive can only allow you to continue playing, but cannot be used to help your score after you die. A health potion can be used to increase your health before entering a fight, which reduces the chance of dying. So it was possible to argue that war revives are no threat to scoring, but are a threat to participation. If a player cannot spend to revive and gets roadblocked often enough, they could (and probably will) decide to quit the mode. A player doesn't need potions to participate, but they absolutely need revives to participate in a mode explicitly designed to kill them. AQ Raids have built-in revives almost certainly for the same reason.

I believe this is at least partially a factor in why potions haven't been adjusted. It is entirely possible that the devs want to rebalance war health potions, it is entirely possible they would agree they aren't as strong as they should be or cost more than they should be, but because this scoring effect exists where health potions can directly affect the balance of war scoring, it is a much more tricky and time consuming exercise to tamper with them, and they just haven't dedicated the time yet.

pseudosane

AW health potions are less influenced by economic reasons and more because of how war is balanced.

The largest determining factor in deciding who wins a war, especially is higher tiers, is attacker deaths. We do have tie breakers. but the devs do not want wars decided too often on tie breakers. They want wars decided on direct scoring. That means the worst thing that can happen is a zero-zero tie, where no one dies. The difficulty of war is tuned to try to make sure enough players die to make sure there is a clear winner in a war.

You might think that a 1-0 war where one person dies is at least decisive so that's fine and we don't need too many players to die in war, but in fact what used to happen in the past was when wars were decided by super close and super low scores that put enormous pressure on players to never die, because when a war ends 1-0, one single player among 60 players decided that war. It was their fault their alliance lost. A 5-4 war or a 6-7 war is also decided by one player, but you can't easily point your finger at whose fault it is. There's less singular pressure and singular blame. This is a thing that came up a lot in war discussions.

So unlike almost any other content, war is designed to kill players. It is *necessary* that players die, and if not enough players die war is deemed to not be working correctly, especially at the very top. It isn't that the devs literally want to kill players, but they believe that's the only way war works correctly.

It was this line of thought that I pried open to convince the devs to make alliance war revives free. Because in war, unlike everywhere else, health potions and revives do completely different things. Everywhere else, revives and portions are both tools you can use to complete the content. Whether you choose to revive or heal is a mostly resource management decision. However, in war, that's not true. Health potions *prevent* death. Revives *recover from death*. Health potions change scoring. Revives don't. You can only use a revive if you die, and if you die you've already lost those points. A revive can only allow you to continue playing, but cannot be used to help your score after you die. A health potion can be used to increase your health before entering a fight, which reduces the chance of dying. So it was possible to argue that war revives are no threat to scoring, but are a threat to participation. If a player cannot spend to revive and gets roadblocked often enough, they could (and probably will) decide to quit the mode. A player doesn't need potions to participate, but they absolutely need revives to participate in a mode explicitly designed to kill them. AQ Raids have built-in revives almost certainly for the same reason.

I believe this is at least partially a factor in why potions haven't been adjusted. It is entirely possible that the devs want to rebalance war health potions, it is entirely possible they would agree they aren't as strong as they should be or cost more than they should be, but because this scoring effect exists where health potions can directly affect the balance of war scoring, it is a much more tricky and time consuming exercise to tamper with them, and they just haven't dedicated the time yet.

Understandable but I think potions are just a piece of the puzzle. The 3 minute boosts play a bigger role here which is why they are even more expensive. Id go so far as to say Level 6 pots of 20k healing are also inadequate at this point.

Chief_Wiggum

3 min boost does play a big role but they scale with champion stats via percentages or number of actions rather than a number that falls behind when ranks increase. Imagine indestructible boost that isn't preventing 3 hits period regardless of strength including sp3s.. but 3 hits less than 2000 Damage per potion. or Combat regen boost that doesn't heal 15% over 25 secs but 10000health over 25 secs.. Fine at 6 star level but almost laughable at 7 star r3+.

While i don't think its desperate yet.. it will be soon. Ive seen top war alliances item out or get close to in these first few wars. As r4s proliferate we will need those bigger potions at a lower war levels to keep people wanting to play war.

ButteredPopcorn8008

If you make war more expensive no one will play it. It you make it less expensive more people will enjoy and possible spend a few wars a season. That’s better than making everyone go spend free by monezting it so hard people quit spending