After 9 years I still sometimes struggle to understand node or kit descriptions as written

Mix Master: "attempts the same basic attack in a row.." though, if you whiff a light intentionally (which is certainly an "attempt" imo).. they will still evade your next Medium if the previous *landed* attack was a medium - I find this node description inaccurate? Especially because blocked attacks also count as well.. also an attempt, but whiffing an attack does not count as an attempt?

This language is more clear... "Lands" an attack, for example

Those are more opinions, but here is a question:
What is the definition of a "Personal Effect"? I'm sure I knew at some point, but would like to verify:)
If a Defender gains an Effect from a node.. can this be considered Personal? Does it refer to something from their kit, or simply an Effect on them, vs the opponent? I can't remember

Comments

Herbal_Taxman

I understand “personal” to mean something in the champ’s kit. An effect they can generate independent of any nodes.

hungryhungrybbq

Thank you for the reply

Cerebrium

Makes me feel better. Because I am still confused on the terms Buff vs Debuff, and how they used it to refer to the attacker or defender, and others like when it said “same attacks in a row”, does that include the attacks within the same combo… 🤷‍♂️

Sundance_2099

A buff is something that improves or aids the champion triggering the effect, eg regeneration or armour up. A debuff is something that weakens the other champion eg Bleed, Inciinerate, Shock, etc.

Average_Desi

For many nodes, the actual working can only be found by actually doing the fight. There are small intricacies that can't all be encapsulated by the node description. Well, when that happens we get the page long descriptions.

Personal would mean from the base kit if the champion. This is done to remove parry stun from interacting with the kit abilities and such

hungryhungrybbq

For many nodes, the actual working can only be found by actually doing the fight. There are small intricacies that can't all be encapsulated by the node description. Well, when that happens we get the page long descriptions.

Personal would mean from the base kit if the champion. This is done to remove parry stun from interacting with the kit abilities and such

I can only assume that Mix Master is coded to count basics that engage or would engage with the defenders hit box? Because whiffs are not counted in the sequence, but block hits are (they clearly engaged with the hit box, but just didn't land).. and I'm not talking about whiffs from across the stage, even whiffs just outside of striking distance (the same way people use them to adjust distance during a special animation to punish with a heavy) do not get counted in the sequence

I liked the idea of weaving in quick light whiffs as an inventive, skill based way to play around the node, but it just doesn't work that way unfortunately

Deacon

state of confusion is normal. we all experience it.

hungryhungrybbq

Makes me feel better. Because I am still confused on the terms Buff vs Debuff, and how they used it to refer to the attacker or defender, and others like when it said “same attacks in a row”, does that include the attacks within the same combo… 🤷‍♂️

Repeat actions that are punished by a node are usually regardless of combo.. it's like a running sequence across combos.. but I was just noting that block hits count and whiffed hits do not and that there is no way to know that without testing with the actual node active

summerdeer

yea I rlly don't understand difference between passive buffs and active and nodes that deal with them

hungryhungrybbq

Lol.. I just found another amusing example
Did you know that sp3 attacks can be blockable or unblockable? I didn't 😂
Example: Diablo vs Nova in AW.. I punish his sp1 and gain the Unblockable Passive from the tac and I launched sp3 while it was still up.. he was awarded the 70% damage reduction on Unblockable attacks 😂

Sweet.. imma try to block an sp3 next time the opponent goes red.. 🙃

Jokes aside.. this is interesting information for anyone who plays Nova offensively though

WednesdayLength

yea I rlly don't understand difference between passive buffs and active and nodes that deal with them

It's easy since passive buffs aren't a thing. There's buffs, debuffs and passives

Average_Desi

Lol.. I just found another amusing example
Did you know that sp3 attacks can be blockable or unblockable? I didn't 😂
Example: Diablo vs Nova in AW.. I punish his sp1 and gain the Unblockable Passive from the tac and I launched sp3 while it was still up.. he was awarded the 70% damage reduction on Unblockable attacks 😂

Sweet.. imma try to block an sp3 next time the opponent goes red.. 🙃

Jokes aside.. this is interesting information for anyone who plays Nova offensively though

Did you chain the special from the hit? That can sometimes cause effects to carry over.

captain_rogers

Lol.. I just found another amusing example
Did you know that sp3 attacks can be blockable or unblockable? I didn't 😂
Example: Diablo vs Nova in AW.. I punish his sp1 and gain the Unblockable Passive from the tac and I launched sp3 while it was still up.. he was awarded the 70% damage reduction on Unblockable attacks 😂

Sweet.. imma try to block an sp3 next time the opponent goes red.. 🙃

Jokes aside.. this is interesting information for anyone who plays Nova offensively though

Actually if you use civil warrior (There's literally no reason to use him) He has an ability that allows him to take 60% less damage if he block during specials, and thie extends to sp3 as well.

DrZola

@hungryhungrybbq The team runs each description through Google translate back and forth across several different and completely unrelated languages to ensure there is sufficient stiltedness and ambiguity.

Dr. Zola

Feuerschwer

Lol.. I just found another amusing example
Did you know that sp3 attacks can be blockable or unblockable? I didn't 😂
Example: Diablo vs Nova in AW.. I punish his sp1 and gain the Unblockable Passive from the tac and I launched sp3 while it was still up.. he was awarded the 70% damage reduction on Unblockable attacks 😂

Sweet.. imma try to block an sp3 next time the opponent goes red.. 🙃

Jokes aside.. this is interesting information for anyone who plays Nova offensively though
Actually if you use civil warrior (There's literally no reason to use him) He has an ability that allows him to take 60% less damage if he block during specials, and thie extends to sp3 as well.

For a while there was a glitch where Medusa would try to auto-block a SP3 if you chained it after a single basic; it mostly didn’t matter, since you can’t actually block the SP3, but eventually someone noticed because the furies were still consumed, so it was reducing the damage on Magik’s SP3 (which scaled damage based on the number of buffs nullified)

hungryhungrybbq

Lol.. I just found another amusing example
Did you know that sp3 attacks can be blockable or unblockable? I didn't 😂
Example: Diablo vs Nova in AW.. I punish his sp1 and gain the Unblockable Passive from the tac and I launched sp3 while it was still up.. he was awarded the 70% damage reduction on Unblockable attacks 😂

Sweet.. imma try to block an sp3 next time the opponent goes red.. 🙃

Jokes aside.. this is interesting information for anyone who plays Nova offensively though
Did you chain the special from the hit? That can sometimes cause effects to carry over.

Just checked the footage.. nope, about 2 seconds passed after my last basic attack
I mean.. technically the Sp3 was an "Unblockable attack" lol.. but it's just kinda silly imo

hungryhungrybbq

Just to display how Mix Master actually works in case there were other people (like me) who didn't know this

https://youtu.be/5YOLNpNqcK0?si=BC7ThZez9q6G4UYe

hungryhungrybbq

Though.. here's what is nice.. Evade is actually functioning how it should be.. in most interactions a light attack immediately following an evaded attack should connect if the defender attempts an immediate punish
For years, Evade was not working this way and was providing an artificial frame advantage to the defender or input lock that shouldn't have been there I believe

peixemacaco

I dont waste my time reading nodes
They need to simplify with common words

World Eater

yea I rlly don't understand difference between passive buffs and active and nodes that deal with them
It's easy since passive buffs aren't a thing. There's buffs, debuffs and passives

There are passives that grant buffs so let’s not pretend like this can’t get confusing.
Aegons combo meter abilities are listed as a passive so his true accuracy, fury , combo shield & unstoppable buffs all stem from a passive.

Nick fury’s gets a Fury buff at 20 tactical charges which listed in his kit as a passive

Colossus has a passive that gives him armor up buff at the start of the fight

Nova gets a fury buff at the start of the fight and is listed as a passive

captain_rogers

I dont waste my time reading nodes
They need to simplify with common words

Wym by common words? They just use basic English for node description

Feuerschwer

yea I rlly don't understand difference between passive buffs and active and nodes that deal with them
It's easy since passive buffs aren't a thing. There's buffs, debuffs and passives
There are passives that grant buffs so let’s not pretend like this can’t get confusing.
Aegons combo meter abilities are listed as a passive so his true accuracy, fury , combo shield & unstoppable buffs all stem from a passive.

Nick fury’s gets a Fury buff at 20 tactical charges which listed in his kit as a passive

Colossus has a passive that gives him armor up buff at the start of the fight

Nova gets a fury buff at the start of the fight and is listed as a passive

So what you’re confusing is passive abilities (abilities that are not triggered by a specific action, so they’re either always on, or trigger at specific times) versus passive effects (ongoing effects that are not buffs or debuffs, like Hulk’s furies). Passive effects are just any ongoing effect that isn’t tagged as buff or debuff. Buffs are (usually) beneficial, debuffs are (usually) detrimental, but it’s really just a tag on the effect that says ‘this is a buff’ so abilities and effects that care about buffs target it.

Average_Desi

yea I rlly don't understand difference between passive buffs and active and nodes that deal with them
It's easy since passive buffs aren't a thing. There's buffs, debuffs and passives
There are passives that grant buffs so let’s not pretend like this can’t get confusing.
Aegons combo meter abilities are listed as a passive so his true accuracy, fury , combo shield & unstoppable buffs all stem from a passive.

Nick fury’s gets a Fury buff at 20 tactical charges which listed in his kit as a passive

Colossus has a passive that gives him armor up buff at the start of the fight

Nova gets a fury buff at the start of the fight and is listed as a passive

Passive abilities Vs Passive effects. Passive abilities just means that they are there all the time.

World Eater

yea I rlly don't understand difference between passive buffs and active and nodes that deal with them
It's easy since passive buffs aren't a thing. There's buffs, debuffs and passives
There are passives that grant buffs so let’s not pretend like this can’t get confusing.
Aegons combo meter abilities are listed as a passive so his true accuracy, fury , combo shield & unstoppable buffs all stem from a passive.

Nick fury’s gets a Fury buff at 20 tactical charges which listed in his kit as a passive

Colossus has a passive that gives him armor up buff at the start of the fight

Nova gets a fury buff at the start of the fight and is listed as a passive

So what you’re confusing is passive abilities (abilities that are not triggered by a specific action, so they’re either always on, or trigger at specific times) versus passive effects (ongoing effects that are not buffs or debuffs, like Hulk’s furies). Passive effects are just any ongoing effect that isn’t tagged as buff or debuff. Buffs are (usually) beneficial, debuffs are (usually) detrimental, but it’s really just a tag on the effect that says ‘this is a buff’ so abilities and effects that care about buffs target it.

You're confusing me for someone who doesn't know the different between a passive, buff, debuff or "effect".

I'm just pointing out that there are champs who have a passive (as listed in their description) that grant various champions buffs & that this can easily get people confused, especially new players. This is the language Kabam has chosen to use and I'm just highlighting how it can easily get confusing.

summerdeer

what about kitty's prowess

hungryhungrybbq

Just to display how Mix Master actually works in case there were other people (like me) who didn't know this
https://youtu.be/5YOLNpNqcK0?si=BC7ThZez9q6G4UYe

So, I think that's gotta be it.. the beginning of this clip is a blocked medium, for reference
Mix Master is coded to only count while in striking distance (ability to intersect with hit box -whether it would land or not)
I'm clearly attempting to hit him with a light attack as a direct counter attack to his heavy (though, we know it's not gonna connect) but it's the following Medium that closes the distance and that's registered as the next "attempted" attack

Anyway, I realize they can't add "while in striking distance" to every node that works this way.. I guess
But just thought it was interesting that I never knew Mix Master was coded this way.. I suppose the other text that could be added for clarification would be "that would connect"? Lol idk.. but now I'm curious to look into all nodes that monitor or count types of attacks and how they are worded

hungryhungrybbq

Everything else I've read so far says "land".. Mix Master being the only outlier - maybe "would land" would work.. I think they just used "attempt" knowing that Evaded attack will not "land" but will still be counted in the sequence?

Average_Desi

One another thing in Mix Master is that if you do three light attacks, and the second one did not cause an evade(stun, true accuracy, aar, whatever), the third light will land because it is counted as a new sequence.

DNA3000

Everything else I've read so far says "land".. Mix Master being the only outlier - maybe "would land" would work.. I think they just used "attempt" knowing that Evaded attack will not "land" but will still be counted in the sequence?

Correct. If they said "land" the ambiguity would be that the second attack doesn't actually land. In later descriptions I believe they use terminology like "would have landed" or words to that effect, but that one is currently technically inaccurate. I'll bug report it when I get the chance.

DNA3000

yea I rlly don't understand difference between passive buffs and active and nodes that deal with them
It's easy since passive buffs aren't a thing. There's buffs, debuffs and passives
There are passives that grant buffs so let’s not pretend like this can’t get confusing.
Aegons combo meter abilities are listed as a passive so his true accuracy, fury , combo shield & unstoppable buffs all stem from a passive.

Nick fury’s gets a Fury buff at 20 tactical charges which listed in his kit as a passive

Colossus has a passive that gives him armor up buff at the start of the fight

Nova gets a fury buff at the start of the fight and is listed as a passive

So what you’re confusing is passive abilities (abilities that are not triggered by a specific action, so they’re either always on, or trigger at specific times) versus passive effects (ongoing effects that are not buffs or debuffs, like Hulk’s furies). Passive effects are just any ongoing effect that isn’t tagged as buff or debuff. Buffs are (usually) beneficial, debuffs are (usually) detrimental, but it’s really just a tag on the effect that says ‘this is a buff’ so abilities and effects that care about buffs target it.
You're confusing me for someone who doesn't know the different between a passive, buff, debuff or "effect".

I'm just pointing out that there are champs who have a passive (as listed in their description) that grant various champions buffs & that this can easily get people confused, especially new players. This is the language Kabam has chosen to use and I'm just highlighting how it can easily get confusing.

To be honest, that's a rare point of confusion I've almost never heard. More commonly, people get confused because they either believe intuitively or have carried over from other games the notion that "buff" is a beneficial effect and "debuff" is a detrimental effect, so all beneficial effects are buffs. So in MCOC when a passive effect has a beneficial effect they think it is a "passive buff" because it is a passive (the game says so) and it is a buff (because that's what all beneficial effects are called everywhere in the universe as far as they know).

The biggest source of ambiguity here is not even the distinction between passives and buffs (being mutually exclusive). It is the difference between what the word "passive" means in the context of effects and separately in the context of abilities. When we are talking about effects, effects can have a type, and passive is one of the types. It doesn't say anything explicitly about how the effect works. Passive effects are not "passive" in the normal sense of the word, they are simply a different type. But when discussing abilities, passive means something different. It means the ability has no activation - it is always on. This is to distinguish from abilities that must be triggered. Special attacks, for example, are abilities that must be triggered.

Also, the opposite of passive is never "active." When talking about effects, there is no opposite of passive, any more than there is an opposite to the color purple. It is just a type. When talking about abilities, the opposite of passive is not active, it is literally "not passive." The word "active" is used to describe an ability that is on. Passive abilities are always active. Non-passive abilities must be activated to become active.