Ability Accuracy Modification Immunity and Neutralize

BattleWarriar

I'm a little confused on how being immune to ability accuracy modification interacts with neutralize. Archangel doesn't receive any neutralize when fighting rintrah and I always attributed that to his ability accuracy modification immunity. Arnim Zola is also immune to ability accuracy modification, yet he does get neutralize on him when fighting rintrah. Does anyone have ideas on how this interaction works?

Average_Desi

Because he is not immune to Ability Accuracy modification. It's just that only he can change it. That means it can be modified. Only by him though.

TheUglyone123

Neutralize is purely ability accuracy based. So for example, maestro’s buffs are immune to ability accuracy reduction. Therefore, if you use rintrah for example, you will apply the neutralize, but it won’t stop his buffs from triggering. So the debuff will appear, but so will maestro’s buffs.

Hopefully that made sense

BattleWarriar

@TheUglyone123 I understand that part, but why would the neutralize not trigger on archangel? He doesn't get the passive at all, even if it wouldn't actually impact his ability to gain the buffs.

BattleWarriar

@Average_Desi I guess that makes sense. I just don't fully understand why that would impact him since neutralize wouldn't be one of his personal effects.

TheUglyone123

BattleWarriar said:

@TheUglyone123 I understand that part, but why would the neutralize not trigger on archangel? He doesn't get the passive at all, even if it wouldn't actually impact his ability to gain the buffs.

Maybe because of this passive he has? I would assume he is inherently immune to ability accuracy reduction just by existing, it’s not tied to buffs like maestro

BattleWarriar

@TheUglyone123 That's exactly what caught my attention. I don't see how this is different from Zola though.

Average_Desi

BattleWarriar said:

@Average_Desi I guess that makes sense. I just don't fully understand why that would impact him since neutralize wouldn't be one of his personal effects.

Because he is immune to ability accuracy reduction effects. And neutralise is one of them. Like if a champ were immune to bleed, they would be immune to all sorts of bleed effects

Average_Desi

BattleWarriar said:

@TheUglyone123 That's exactly what caught my attention. I don't see how this is different from Zola though.

It does not say Zola is immune. You know how onslaught does not take damage from bleeds? But he isn't immune to it. Something similar.

TheUglyone123

BattleWarriar said:

@TheUglyone123 That's exactly what caught my attention. I don't see how this is different from Zola though.

I don’t see the difference either, I see where you’re coming from, that is super interesting. I don’t have an explanation for why that interacts differently…I think @Average_Desi explained it pretty well and is the only logical conclusion I can think of

BattleWarriar

Average_Desi said:

BattleWarriar said:

@TheUglyone123 That's exactly what caught my attention. I don't see how this is different from Zola though.

It does not say Zola is immune. You know how onslaught does not take damage from bleeds? But he isn't immune to it. Something similar.

Yeah I considered that as well. The issue I have is that Onslaught has resistance with a set potency. We have that same interaction in champions that have more than 100% ability accuracy, but are not "immune" or "cannot be modified". This does seem like the most realistic explanation though

Average_Desi

BattleWarriar said:

Average_Desi said:

BattleWarriar said:

@TheUglyone123 That's exactly what caught my attention. I don't see how this is different from Zola though.

It does not say Zola is immune. You know how onslaught does not take damage from bleeds? But he isn't immune to it. Something similar.

Yeah I considered that as well. The issue I have is that Onslaught has resistance with a set potency. We have that same interaction in champions that have more than 100% ability accuracy, but are not "immune" or "cannot be modified". This does seem like the most realistic explanation though

We have corvus glaive who takes no damage from bleeds. No potency specification

DNA3000

BattleWarriar said:

@TheUglyone123 I understand that part, but why would the neutralize not trigger on archangel? He doesn't get the passive at all, even if it wouldn't actually impact his ability to gain the buffs.

I believe Archangel is immune to ability accuracy reduction effects. Neutralize is an ability accuracy reducing effect, so AA is immune to it. That means Neutralize the effect cannot "stick" to AA: it does not appear on his buff bar, because it literally goes away.

Zola is not immune to AAR effects. Rather, his ability accuracy can only be modified by himself. But since he is not immune to AAR effects, neutralize still "sticks" to him. It is just that the Neutralize effect does nothing to him,

Think about the difference between Colossus and Omega Sentinel when it comes to bleeds. Colossus is immune to bleed effects. So when you try to bleed him, the bleed effect simply doesn't land on him. However, OS is not immune to bleed effects. She doesn't take damage from bleeds. So when you try to bleed her, the bleed does land and you see it on her. It just does no damage. In a similar way, I believe the difference between AA and Zola is that you cannot place an AAR effect on AA, it just bounces off so to speak. But you can place an AAR effect on Zola because those don't bounce off of him. They just don't do anything to him.

[Note: unlike Onslaught that has reduced bleed potency, Omega Sentinel is completely immune to bleed damage. But she is not immune to bleed effects. This distinction is actually necessary for her kit to work properly, as she heals when inflicted with bleed effects]

BattleWarriar

DNA3000 said:

BattleWarriar said:

@TheUglyone123 I understand that part, but why would the neutralize not trigger on archangel? He doesn't get the passive at all, even if it wouldn't actually impact his ability to gain the buffs.

I believe Archangel is immune to ability accuracy reduction effects. Neutralize is an ability accuracy reducing effect, so AA is immune to it. That means Neutralize the effect cannot "stick" to AA: it does not appear on his buff bar, because it literally goes away.

Zola is not immune to AAR effects. Rather, his ability accuracy can only be modified by himself. But since he is not immune to AAR effects, neutralize still "sticks" to him. It is just that the Neutralize effect does nothing to him,

Think about the difference between Colossus and Omega Sentinel when it comes to bleeds. Colossus is immune to bleed effects. So when you try to bleed him, the bleed effect simply doesn't land on him. However, OS is not immune to bleed effects. She doesn't take damage from bleeds. So when you try to bleed her, the bleed does land and you see it on her. It just does no damage. In a similar way, I believe the difference between AA and Zola is that you cannot place an AAR effect on AA, it just bounces off so to speak. But you can place an AAR effect on Zola because those don't bounce off of him. They just don't do anything to him.

[Note: unlike Onslaught that has reduced bleed potency, Omega Sentinel is completely immune to bleed damage. But she is not immune to bleed effects. This distinction is actually necessary for her kit to work properly, as she heals when inflicted with bleed effects]

Oh that makes perfect sense! Thanks for taking the time to explain that so thoroughly

JhonST33

BattleWarriar said:

@TheUglyone123 That's exactly what caught my attention. I don't see how this is different from Zola though.

He is not immune to AAR, he only can not have altered his AA, it's like omega sentinel she is not inmune to poison and bleed but she don't take any damage form the effects, it's not inmune or resistente like onslaugth, for example, she just don't take any damage as Zola he can not have his AA lowered but is not inmune.

Player_Slasher

Mysterio's abilities state that his "Ability Accuracy cannot be decreased" while his helmet is active, and he's fully immune to Neutralize.

Old Man Logan has a line that's essentially the same - "Logan's Ability Accuracy cannot be decreased or increased" - yet you can still inflict the Neutralize effect on him.

Mordo is "Immune to Passive Ability Accuracy reductions", yet not only can you inflict Neutralize Passives on him, but they can also actually make his Buffs fail.

Now these are different wordings to Zola's abilities, and idk how Neutralize is supposed to interact with that one. But just showing that there have always been inconsistencies with Neutralize and AAR Immunity interactions.

There was a discussion about the Neutralize change back in 2022:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/313445/neutralize-update-merged-threads/p2

And the MCOC wiki also claims that Archangel and Mysterio are the only AAR-Immunes that fully stop Neutralize (not sure if it's accurate though):
https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Neutralize

Magrailothos

Player_Slasher said:

Mysterio's abilities state that his "Ability Accuracy cannot be decreased" while his helmet is active, and he's fully immune to Neutralize.

Old Man Logan has a line that's essentially the same - "Logan's Ability Accuracy cannot be decreased or increased" - yet you can still inflict the Neutralize effect on him.

Mordo is "Immune to Passive Ability Accuracy reductions", yet not only can you inflict Neutralize Passives on him, but they can also actually make his Buffs fail.

Now these are different wordings to Zola's abilities, and idk how Neutralize is supposed to interact with that one. But just showing that there have always been inconsistencies with Neutralize and AAR Immunity interactions.

There was a discussion about the Neutralize change back in 2022:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/313445/neutralize-update-merged-threads/p2

And the MCOC wiki also claims that Archangel and Mysterio are the only AAR-Immunes that fully stop Neutralize (not sure if it's accurate though):
https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Neutralize

The Mordo one isn't inconsistent. It's just a little unclear, because the word 'Passive' is used in two different ways in the game.

Mordo is described as being immune to passive AAR.

This doesn't mean he's immune to what we colloquially call 'Passive effects', like Rintrah's passive Neutralise.

In game terms, the use of the word 'passive' in Mordo's abilities means an ability that's always on; as compared to an ability that can be either active/inactive.

So, skill champs like Black Widow, Black Cat and others have 'always on' AAR, which Mordo is immune to. These champs always reduce your ability accuracy; even if Black Cat and Crossbones are reducing it by 0% if they have no combo/no Fury buffs.

Captain Sam has on-off AAR when blocking; so it's an Active ability that Mordo use immune to, so Mordo can inflict his SP1 Degeneration through Sam's block.

Rintrah inflicts a Neutralise which starts and stops. It's therefore an Active effect (which, in the years since Mordo was added to the game, we've started referring to as a Passive, to distinguish it from a debuff); so Mordo isn't immune to it, and it works to stop him gaining buffs.

Player_Slasher

Magrailothos said:

Player_Slasher said:

Mysterio's abilities state that his "Ability Accuracy cannot be decreased" while his helmet is active, and he's fully immune to Neutralize.

Old Man Logan has a line that's essentially the same - "Logan's Ability Accuracy cannot be decreased or increased" - yet you can still inflict the Neutralize effect on him.

Mordo is "Immune to Passive Ability Accuracy reductions", yet not only can you inflict Neutralize Passives on him, but they can also actually make his Buffs fail.

Now these are different wordings to Zola's abilities, and idk how Neutralize is supposed to interact with that one. But just showing that there have always been inconsistencies with Neutralize and AAR Immunity interactions.

There was a discussion about the Neutralize change back in 2022:
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/313445/neutralize-update-merged-threads/p2

And the MCOC wiki also claims that Archangel and Mysterio are the only AAR-Immunes that fully stop Neutralize (not sure if it's accurate though):
https://marvel-contestofchampions.fandom.com/wiki/Neutralize

The Mordo one isn't inconsistent. It's just a little unclear, because the word 'Passive' is used in two different ways in the game.

Mordo is described as being immune to passive AAR.

This doesn't mean he's immune to what we colloquially call 'Passive effects', like Rintrah's passive Neutralise.

In game terms, the use of the word 'passive' in Mordo's abilities means an ability that's always on; as compared to an ability that can be either active/inactive.

So, skill champs like Black Widow, Black Cat and others have 'always on' AAR, which Mordo is immune to. These champs always reduce your ability accuracy; even if Black Cat and Crossbones are reducing it by 0% if they have no combo/no Fury buffs.

Captain Sam has on-off AAR when blocking; so it's an Active ability that Mordo use immune to, so Mordo can inflict his SP1 Degeneration through Sam's block.

Rintrah inflicts a Neutralise which starts and stops. It's therefore an Active effect (which, in the years since Mordo was added to the game, we've started referring to as a Passive, to distinguish it from a debuff); so Mordo isn't immune to it, and it works to stop him gaining buffs.

But Mordo is immune to Concussion Passives though. If what you said is true then that shouldn't be the case

Rayven5220

Stuff like this is exactly why I miss the days where you read a couple relatively simple nodes, picked good counters then went in and just had to punch things until they died, maybe paying attention to a timer symbol or something. 🤣