AI 2.0 Discussion

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/392960/dev-diary-ai-deep-dive#latest .

It's nice that we have confirmation that Dr Doom is weighted to throw more heavies

Comments

GroundedWisdom

Well, they didn't say that specifically. I understand where you're coming from though. Red Skull blocking all the time. Oof.

Demonzfyre

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/392960/dev-diary-ai-deep-dive#latest .

It's nice that we have confirmation that Dr Doom is weighted to throw more heavies

Out of all the champs, I am surprised it wasn't Mysterio they mentioned as weighted towards throwing heavies.

benshb

It feels honest, bit I just can't understand then why does quake starts "quaking" when I have a concussion debuff, while apparently she doesnt know I have that debuff?

Mostafa_Amr1

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/392960/dev-diary-ai-deep-dive#latest .

It's nice that we have confirmation that Dr Doom is weighted to throw more heavies
Out of all the champs, I am surprised it wasn't Mysterio they mentioned as weighted towards throwing heavies.

Dr Doom is a different breed tho he can just heavy intercept you as long as your shocked

Average_Desi

Well, they didn't say that specifically. I understand where you're coming from though. Red Skull blocking all the time. Oof.

They did.

I mean we did know about Mordo, but this is still new information.

Demonzfyre

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/392960/dev-diary-ai-deep-dive#latest .

It's nice that we have confirmation that Dr Doom is weighted to throw more heavies
Out of all the champs, I am surprised it wasn't Mysterio they mentioned as weighted towards throwing heavies.
Dr Doom is a different breed tho he can just heavy intercept you as long as your shocked

That's not really an intercept. It's the same sort of mechanic that "sleep" is. You aren't intercepted as much as you're just stopped because he stuns you.

Average_Desi

They could have given the "AI" a new name with 2.0. we could have killed all the "AI is learning and parrying me" posts .

Pikolu

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/392960/dev-diary-ai-deep-dive#latest .

It's nice that we have confirmation that Dr Doom is weighted to throw more heavies
Out of all the champs, I am surprised it wasn't Mysterio they mentioned as weighted towards throwing heavies.

If you have fought doom and got a shock on yourself, you'd understand. The dude is literally throwing heavies across the entire screen. Mysterio only starts spamming heavies after he uses a sp2.

KabamPinwheel

They could have given the "AI" a new name with 2.0. we could have killed all the "AI is learning and parrying me" posts .

....I kinda wanna push for this now xD

NBK1999

They could have given the "AI" a new name with 2.0. we could have killed all the "AI is learning and parrying me" posts .
....I kinda wanna push for this now xD

I vote Gary… imagine all the posts about how unfair Gary is or how Gary is intercepting too much lol

captain_rogers

Doctor doom don't randomly throw heavies. Dr doom throw heavies when opponent has a shock. So it means he can detect shock on the opponent. But kabam said AI can't detect any effects present on player, right?

Average_Desi

Doctor doom don't randomly throw heavies. Dr doom throw heavies when opponent has a shock. So it means he can detect shock on the opponent. But kabam said AI can't detect any effects present on player, right?

Nope. He throws heavies even when there isn't shock on you. Only difference is that when there is a shock, we get stunned and the other times it's just a free opening so we don't think much of the latter.

The ones where we get stunned are just reinforced in our minds.

The AI does know distance. So if doom knew the shock was on us, then he would only throw the heavy up close. But it also throws heavies from the other end of the screen

GroundedWisdom

Well, they didn't say that specifically. I understand where you're coming from though. Red Skull blocking all the time. Oof.
They did.

I mean we did know about Mordo, but this is still new information.

My apologies. I thought of it in terms of hypotheticals. Perhaps you're right.

Bosley

What about AI profiles throwing specials to avoid things like stuns from Archangels Neurotoxins expiring. The timing for that is too consistent and regular to be random.

These profiles are also interacting with buffs and debuffs. Similar to Mordo and the power gain. But it's not subject to one character.....

Riptide

This was a really nice read, I hope they do more of these!

ahmynuts

Am I insane or did we not know that the AI had weighted actions already

Gentsy12

This was a really nice read, I hope they do more of these!

Agree, between the BG post, the build timeline, now this, I’ve been extremely impressed with the community and games teams living up to the commitment of have more open communication.

As for the post itself I’m cautiously optimistic and excited to see when it launches. Also I think launching in a few select quests to start (and not just limiting those to CCP) is definitely the right decision.

Average_Desi

Am I insane or did we not know that the AI had weighted actions already

We kinda did I think. They mentioned this in an older post. But it wasn't this informative

GroundedWisdom

It makes sense when you're trying to replicate game play. You would need to weight them to simulate Players using them the most efficiently. If memory serves, they made adjustments to Nightcrawler along the same lines to increase his Evade chance, and communicated that to us.

SummonerNR

Pulling over a comment from parallel thread, to keep in one place.
.

First thing I will state: When they added to the frame rate, they added to the number of calculations the AI makes.

Just because we can notice 60 fps, vs 30, or 24 or even 12, that does not change the fact that we mostly do not make 60+ decisions per second. The computer does, in this case.

Humans can process about 10 conscious decisions per second, so align the AI with this human biological fact. Let it make 1 single decision every 10th of a second, or every 6 frames at 60 FPS, 3 at 30 fps.

Solved the issue. No more 30 blocks per second.

I swear the fact they have not been sued by epileptic people just shows the possibility most epileptic people have been avoiding this game rather then it not effecting them.

One thing I’ll touch on this, I don’t think the AI is actually doing 30/60 rolls per second. Because of the time that it takes to EXECUTE a roll.
So, rolling a Light hit, and then executing it, the AI can not take action on any further roll until the timing of executing that Light hit is over.

The Dev Diary does say that if it rolls onto an action that it is not allowed to take at that time, then it will just re-roll until it does NOT roll onto any “excluded” actions. (would be the same as if they dynamically adjusted the Roll Odds during times there may be “excluded actions, but probably faster to just keep the same Roll Odds and just do rerolls).
But I don’t know if this implies or not what the AI does at times when it is in the middle of some action (does it just NOT do next Rolls until it is free, or does it basically IGNORE the Rolls that it is doing until that time it is free again ??)

Yes, there are things like when you execute your own Heavy (mainly for multi-hit heavies), you can interrupt yourself and perform like an SP midway into your Heavy (like for CapIW).
But even then, I think there has to be a certain amount of initial time into the Heavy before you can do something else. I assume it would be same with the AI.

BUT, your arguement does underscore the potential for the AI to execute something at the EARLIEST POSSIBLE moment, or the Exact Moment required (that you may not appreciate the AI doing).

And so building in some 1/10th of a second pacing into that could indeed be good.
(You still might get hit by something at the exact correct time, but that would only be the case if its 1/10th interval happened to fall on that exact 1/30th critical timing.)

BigBlueOx

I gotta say… one of the best diary posts yet. I think the transparency around weighting of actions was nice but woulda loved more meat to that area… still part of me understands why that peak behind the curtain can only be just a peak. It’s pretty much working the way a majority of us suspected. All and all pretty cool.

One item that really got my attention though… is the admission that current AI makes frame perfect decisions. So many interactions that I find frustrating seemed potentially tied to this. As it looks to me as a player that the AI is ignoring the animations on my screen and moving at rates that are faster than the frames displayed. It’d really be great to get a follow up Diary delving into frame rate and AI interactions. Unpacking what is happening when the AI appears to skip animations or what’s shown on the screen might be out of sync with the AI roller.

Almccarthy

Sounds great, but what happens now ? If I know kabam this is at least 6 months away. I'm guessing they are just leaving things as is for the time being ?

The_0wenpus

They could have given the "AI" a new name with 2.0. we could have killed all the "AI is learning and parrying me" posts .
....I kinda wanna push for this now xD

The issue seems to be that people think there is some actual intelligence. Maybe rename it Artificial Stupid System to really emphasize it is not truly intelligent. Then all the posts would be "Nerf the A.S.S. it isn't stupid enough!!!" Might not solve every problem, but it would be funny.

Tempest_024

I wonder if we will see this in 2025. I have a little more faith in this arriving in game than masteries 2.0, but not much.

PickL1e89

Well, they didn't say that specifically. I understand where you're coming from though. Red Skull blocking all the time. Oof.

Fighting an unstoppable colossus earlier. Such a basic defender he was constantly blocking wouldn't hit into me or throw sp2. Tried to manipulate an attack but he wouldn't budge. Went down eventually tho. Then there is Mordo

Folkvangr

Doctor doom don't randomly throw heavies. Dr doom throw heavies when opponent has a shock. So it means he can detect shock on the opponent. But kabam said AI can't detect any effects present on player, right?
Nope. He throws heavies even when there isn't shock on you. Only difference is that when there is a shock, we get stunned and the other times it's just a free opening so we don't think much of the latter.

The ones where we get stunned are just reinforced in our minds.

The AI does know distance. So if doom knew the shock was on us, then he would only throw the heavy up close. But it also throws heavies from the other end of the screen

You can definitely notice a huge difference in the amount of heavies he throws when you have a shock on you

SirGamesBond

Who whote the post? Doesn't looks like this is John's.

SirGamesBond

This confirms one thing that I suspected, the AI agression meter thingy.
I felt that you have to be much more careful at a particular point in a fight.
You can feel it that AI is coming for you.

Average_Desi

This confirms one thing that I suspected, the AI agression meter thingy.
I felt that you have to be much more careful at a particular point in a fight.
You can feel it that AI is coming for you.

Yeah, I sometimes do a lot of back dash to hopefully calm the opponent.

Asher1_1

what change ai behavior :

Ai profile - ez for Arena , hard probably for rest
Champion Specific Tuning - chavez , mysterio, doom(heavy heavy)
Aggression, - chavez , mysterio (keep cornering you)
Mistakes - finishing combo on block or special on block
Effects(Taunt, Intimidate, Infuriate) - Classic Titania, Starky , gladiator....

how does light intercept , parry & Side step work ?