Webstore Market Loyalty

On May 30th livestream it was mentioned that we store market loyalty was targeted to come out June 9th (today)

Any Update? @Kabam

Webstore Market Loyalty

Currency that comes with all purchases
Exchange for Profile Pics, Emotes, 7* Incursion Crystals
Targeting June 9

Comments

BringPopcorn

My loyalty goes to google, they managed to get me safely to certain locations while driving and provided me with multiple excellent email services for free
Pft emotes.

TotemCorruption

Players: "Why are you requiring $2k worth of purchases before someone can get a bonus emote/pfp?"
Kabam: "The plan is to release an exclusive 1/1 pfp in the future."

The dialogue at this point is broken....

BringPopcorn

Also saying these emotes cost $2000 is like saying the polishing cloth that comes with a new guitar costs $2000. You are buying the guitar, Gibson is happy to toss in the cloth for free.
As someone that owns a guitar right around that value, I'd like to know where my free polishing cloth is.

But let's get to the real issue of this being a terrible and inaccurate analogy. The only access I have to that free cloth (which may or may not exist for free) is through the spending. Okay, that's fine, the analogy kinda works there. The only access to these emotes is through insane spending. Cool, we can get there with this.

But Gibson doesn't advertise that "free" cloth as a reward for being loyal to the brand, and you have no reasonable free access to any Gibson guitar without spending. There's no structure of spend X get X. If I want to access ANYTHING from Gibson, I spend. Access to this game begins at being free. You guys said, "hey, we want to reward loyalty". Not surprising, a great deal of detail was left out - ya know, the usual detail that would've upset most players prior to launch rather than after launch.

The issue is not the emotes. The issue is not the incursion crystal. This issue is not that they're overvalued to Pluto and back (and yes, you're getting plenty more along the way and these are just freebies). The issue is that you put a price tag on loyalty for a game predominantly made of players that don't or can't spend and told them that their loyalty means absolutely nothing and will go unnoticed and unrewarded.

It was a pretty fair and reasonable assumption for all of us that at least with the market points we get every week we might be able to build up to something cool in this new loyalty program. But apparently an emote every 86 weeks or an incursion crystal every 4 years is just too much for the people that can't afford them.

Why not reward the loyalty of the largest portion of your player base? Because if they all go, so does the game.
Why not reasonably reward the loyalty of your moderate spenders? If I do the math, my (current and likely to be reduced) spending, since the sigil doesn't even get you points, and since the monthly units are only in game, will probably be able to garner about 500 points per year, maybe as much as 2,000 if I get a cyber weekend or J4 deal. Huzzah! In just 6 short years I'll have a new emote! Here I am spending probably $30 a month on average, fluctuating depending on the month, and I'm being told that I'm not loyal enough to have a reasonable chance to earn low value items in customer loyalty program. What about the rest of the moderate spenders like me?

With this "loyalty" program, you haven't just reserved stuff for spenders. You've reserved stuff for the wealthy players and only for them. At the end of the day, should they get more for their spending? Absolutely! Definitely not begrudging that big spenders have access to more stuff, and especially not upset that this is the stuff that they get special access to. At the end of the day, it is those spenders that do the most to keep the lights on.
But to call this a loyalty program is tone deaf. You've just told 99% of your players that they're not loyal enough, so why should they be?

If something isn't for everyone, stop pretending that it is until we find out that it's not.

Nailed it.
It's not even about the loyalty program. The whole direction of the game has shifted. Anything nice or semi exclusive, well there is a fee. Some are priced right, others are a bit ridiculous. Everything else that can be gotten thru content or actual game play? Nah lets put all progressions together and give them the same thing.
I honestly don't know if I am playing a game with a 10 year history, or some new beta game trying to find the right direction.

RevHeresy

See what happens when a company tosses in free toppings that didn’t exist prior? If you got OCD and NEED emotes… then I feel sorry for your mental state.

RevHeresy

In retrospect… it would be cool to replace the crystal though with something fantabulous. How about a nexus for a class of choice, BUT it has every champ for that class. I figure for 4k, it’s a “thanks for supporting us” gift. Cuz pulling another ronin would make me break my phone.

DanielRand

In retrospect… it would be cool to replace the crystal though with something fantabulous. How about a nexus for a class of choice, BUT it has every champ for that class. I figure for 4k, it’s a “thanks for supporting us” gift. Cuz pulling another ronin would make me break my phone.

Maybe its the right time for the wish crystal. For 4K you get to pick any champion that's available, but you only get to use it once. After that it can be the loyalty crystal or whatever.

Anotherconcernplayer

@Kabam Crashed

Is there any chance Kabam would consider adding a few (only small amount) on the Daliy and Weekly Crystal?

Ercarret

I'm perfectly happy about what the rewards are. I liked the ideas that Crashed floated around and I think there's ample room for cool rewards that are still just cosmetics. All well and good.

What I am curious about is what kind of path Kabam sees players taking to those rewards, though. I think the sticking point for a lot of people is that low-to-medium spending loyalty isn't rewarded anywhere, which means it feels less about loyalty as such and more just about how much you spend.

It just feels as if Kabam's definition of the word clashes somewhat with the definition of the players who have identified as loyal to the game for a very long time (perhaps even in a monetary sense). It would just have been nice for us to have a pathway to some of these loyalty rewards as well, even if it understandably was on a much less frequent basis than the high-spenders.

One unfortunate aspect in this is that several of the low/medium-spending alternatives don't have any loyalty attached to them at all. I can see no loyalty attached to the Sigil, and I can't see the "Get 20 units per day" offer available in the webstore at all (and thus obviously no loyalty attached to it either). Which is weird, since those are the type of things that at least I have typically paid for on a semiregular/"loyal" basis. Adding loyalty to them could be a way to boost the loyalty gains for those that don't necessarily drop hundreds of dollars on the big events, but might still drop a couple of hundred dollars throughout the year.

Ironside47

If no one was ever going to get the loyalty crystal, why even bother. It just feels like a complete waste of time and effort on Kabams Park.

DNA3000

Overall, this loyalty thing is useless, dumb, and wasted the time of whoever put it together, but it doesn't fit in with monetization conversation.
Is it? Suppose you wanted to make the webstore more attractive to the majority of players who currently use the in-app purchase mechanism, but you didn't want to add too much bonus stuff or units or whatever that would have a significant impact on the game economy. How would you do that?
I wanna meet the person this moves the needle for. I got the great bag of magic beans for sale.

That's like saying you want to meet the person for whom a free cocktail moves the needle for first class flights that cost several thousand dollars. On the one hand,

Overall, this loyalty thing is useless, dumb, and wasted the time of whoever put it together, but it doesn't fit in with monetization conversation.
Is it? Suppose you wanted to make the webstore more attractive to the majority of players who currently use the in-app purchase mechanism, but you didn't want to add too much bonus stuff or units or whatever that would have a significant impact on the game economy. How would you do that?
I wanna meet the person this moves the needle for. I got the great bag of magic beans for sale.
That's like saying you want to meet the person for whom a free cocktail moves the needle for first class flights that cost several thousand dollars. On the one hand, no one person is going to admit that it would. On the other hand, no airline is going to find out by getting rid of it and seeing how many passengers they lose.
No it’s not. One is an established service offering customers expect and are used to the other is a brand new unknown thing meant to entice new users priced in the stratosphere.

Not sure why you are so stuck on defending what’s objectively indefensibly priced.
If you think your perspective is either objective or reasonable, I do not believe I’m capable of eliminating your confusion in this regard.

I’m not the one stuck on anything. I’m just explaining my position, like I always do. Tomorrow I’ll be “stuck” on something else. As this is not my design, I’m not in a position to defend it from anything. I simply find it reasonable, and trivial to justify from a design perspective. The fact that some people see these things as “prices” even though they aren’t, and “too high” even though they are intended to be high, is something you have to defend, as the person choosing to attempt to promote a novel philosophy.

All I have to say is: I don’t think anyone who reaches the position of game economy designer would see it that way. You’re the one that has to somehow convince them to adopt your perspective. Good luck with that.
I don’t need to be a game economy designer to see how poorly this is priced but sure let’s put up those airs….

You don't need to be anything to see anything however you want.

You do need to find an economy designer who agrees with you to change it. They aren't going to do it because of your sparkling personality.

BigBlueOx

Overall, this loyalty thing is useless, dumb, and wasted the time of whoever put it together, but it doesn't fit in with monetization conversation.
Is it? Suppose you wanted to make the webstore more attractive to the majority of players who currently use the in-app purchase mechanism, but you didn't want to add too much bonus stuff or units or whatever that would have a significant impact on the game economy. How would you do that?
I wanna meet the person this moves the needle for. I got the great bag of magic beans for sale.
That's like saying you want to meet the person for whom a free cocktail moves the needle for first class flights that cost several thousand dollars. On the one hand,
Overall, this loyalty thing is useless, dumb, and wasted the time of whoever put it together, but it doesn't fit in with monetization conversation.
Is it? Suppose you wanted to make the webstore more attractive to the majority of players who currently use the in-app purchase mechanism, but you didn't want to add too much bonus stuff or units or whatever that would have a significant impact on the game economy. How would you do that?
I wanna meet the person this moves the needle for. I got the great bag of magic beans for sale.
That's like saying you want to meet the person for whom a free cocktail moves the needle for first class flights that cost several thousand dollars. On the one hand, no one person is going to admit that it would. On the other hand, no airline is going to find out by getting rid of it and seeing how many passengers they lose.
No it’s not. One is an established service offering customers expect and are used to the other is a brand new unknown thing meant to entice new users priced in the stratosphere.

Not sure why you are so stuck on defending what’s objectively indefensibly priced.
If you think your perspective is either objective or reasonable, I do not believe I’m capable of eliminating your confusion in this regard.

I’m not the one stuck on anything. I’m just explaining my position, like I always do. Tomorrow I’ll be “stuck” on something else. As this is not my design, I’m not in a position to defend it from anything. I simply find it reasonable, and trivial to justify from a design perspective. The fact that some people see these things as “prices” even though they aren’t, and “too high” even though they are intended to be high, is something you have to defend, as the person choosing to attempt to promote a novel philosophy.

All I have to say is: I don’t think anyone who reaches the position of game economy designer would see it that way. You’re the one that has to somehow convince them to adopt your perspective. Good luck with that.
I don’t need to be a game economy designer to see how poorly this is priced but sure let’s put up those airs….
You don't need to be anything to see anything however you want.

You do need to find an economy designer who agrees with you to change it. They aren't going to do it because of your sparkling personality.

lol so you’re just gonna re-quote me to repeat the same tired arguments I already rebutted, but dropping the context you must not have a strong counter point for… alrighty then.

Pssttt… your bias is showing

DrZola

Overall, this loyalty thing is useless, dumb, and wasted the time of whoever put it together, but it doesn't fit in with monetization conversation.
Is it? Suppose you wanted to make the webstore more attractive to the majority of players who currently use the in-app purchase mechanism, but you didn't want to add too much bonus stuff or units or whatever that would have a significant impact on the game economy. How would you do that?
I wanna meet the person this moves the needle for. I got the great bag of magic beans for sale.
That's like saying you want to meet the person for whom a free cocktail moves the needle for first class flights that cost several thousand dollars. On the one hand,
Overall, this loyalty thing is useless, dumb, and wasted the time of whoever put it together, but it doesn't fit in with monetization conversation.
Is it? Suppose you wanted to make the webstore more attractive to the majority of players who currently use the in-app purchase mechanism, but you didn't want to add too much bonus stuff or units or whatever that would have a significant impact on the game economy. How would you do that?
I wanna meet the person this moves the needle for. I got the great bag of magic beans for sale.
That's like saying you want to meet the person for whom a free cocktail moves the needle for first class flights that cost several thousand dollars. On the one hand, no one person is going to admit that it would. On the other hand, no airline is going to find out by getting rid of it and seeing how many passengers they lose.
No it’s not. One is an established service offering customers expect and are used to the other is a brand new unknown thing meant to entice new users priced in the stratosphere.

Not sure why you are so stuck on defending what’s objectively indefensibly priced.
If you think your perspective is either objective or reasonable, I do not believe I’m capable of eliminating your confusion in this regard.

I’m not the one stuck on anything. I’m just explaining my position, like I always do. Tomorrow I’ll be “stuck” on something else. As this is not my design, I’m not in a position to defend it from anything. I simply find it reasonable, and trivial to justify from a design perspective. The fact that some people see these things as “prices” even though they aren’t, and “too high” even though they are intended to be high, is something you have to defend, as the person choosing to attempt to promote a novel philosophy.

All I have to say is: I don’t think anyone who reaches the position of game economy designer would see it that way. You’re the one that has to somehow convince them to adopt your perspective. Good luck with that.
I don’t need to be a game economy designer to see how poorly this is priced but sure let’s put up those airs….
You don't need to be anything to see anything however you want.

You do need to find an economy designer who agrees with you to change it. They aren't going to do it because of your sparkling personality.
lol so you’re just gonna re-quote me to repeat the same tired arguments I already rebutted, but dropping the context you must not have a strong counter point for… alrighty then.

Pssttt… your bias is showing

Developers live in a unique world where time isn’t valuable, loyalty requires Whale-level spend and bugs persist so long they become features.

How annoying the little folks who just want to enjoy a phone game must be to them.

Dr. Zola

dv99999

When you got those emotes mean you are marked as "game junkie" lol.

Chobbly

Overall, this loyalty thing is useless, dumb, and wasted the time of whoever put it together, but it doesn't fit in with monetization conversation.
Is it? Suppose you wanted to make the webstore more attractive to the majority of players who currently use the in-app purchase mechanism, but you didn't want to add too much bonus stuff or units or whatever that would have a significant impact on the game economy. How would you do that?
I wanna meet the person this moves the needle for. I got the great bag of magic beans for sale.
That's like saying you want to meet the person for whom a free cocktail moves the needle for first class flights that cost several thousand dollars. On the one hand,
Overall, this loyalty thing is useless, dumb, and wasted the time of whoever put it together, but it doesn't fit in with monetization conversation.
Is it? Suppose you wanted to make the webstore more attractive to the majority of players who currently use the in-app purchase mechanism, but you didn't want to add too much bonus stuff or units or whatever that would have a significant impact on the game economy. How would you do that?
I wanna meet the person this moves the needle for. I got the great bag of magic beans for sale.
That's like saying you want to meet the person for whom a free cocktail moves the needle for first class flights that cost several thousand dollars. On the one hand, no one person is going to admit that it would. On the other hand, no airline is going to find out by getting rid of it and seeing how many passengers they lose.
No it’s not. One is an established service offering customers expect and are used to the other is a brand new unknown thing meant to entice new users priced in the stratosphere.

Not sure why you are so stuck on defending what’s objectively indefensibly priced.
If you think your perspective is either objective or reasonable, I do not believe I’m capable of eliminating your confusion in this regard.

I’m not the one stuck on anything. I’m just explaining my position, like I always do. Tomorrow I’ll be “stuck” on something else. As this is not my design, I’m not in a position to defend it from anything. I simply find it reasonable, and trivial to justify from a design perspective. The fact that some people see these things as “prices” even though they aren’t, and “too high” even though they are intended to be high, is something you have to defend, as the person choosing to attempt to promote a novel philosophy.

All I have to say is: I don’t think anyone who reaches the position of game economy designer would see it that way. You’re the one that has to somehow convince them to adopt your perspective. Good luck with that.
I don’t need to be a game economy designer to see how poorly this is priced but sure let’s put up those airs….
You don't need to be anything to see anything however you want.

You do need to find an economy designer who agrees with you to change it. They aren't going to do it because of your sparkling personality.
lol so you’re just gonna re-quote me to repeat the same tired arguments I already rebutted, but dropping the context you must not have a strong counter point for… alrighty then.

Pssttt… your bias is showing
Developers live in a unique world where time isn’t valuable, loyalty requires Whale-level spend and bugs persist so long they become features.

How annoying the little folks who just want to enjoy a phone game must be to them.

Dr. Zola

I think putting this on the developers is a bit much, sorry @DrZola. The developers will be told what to develop - everything to do with the game economy will be down to business analysis, marketing, basically others who look after the game economy and profitability. Developers are given their work items by others and told to deliver them.

It's easy to point the finger at developers but if the developers were in charge of that, plus coding, unit testing, code reviews, bug investigations etc then Kabam would have gone out of business a long time ago.

DrZola

To be fair @Chobbly, that’s a little too tough on developers in general. While the sense of disconnection feels real, you are probably correct that decision making doesn’t exist 100% with them.

Dr. Zola

ThePowerCosmic

Hey hey!
Looking like this was pushed back a week... It should be up on the 16th.

June 9th was an early target.

Wow all that waiting and anticipation and everyone is disappointed.

How about loyalty for us who spend in the past?

Like the milestones that you guys put now for “future” purchases with this new ”loyalty” point system just shows how out of touch you guys are..

Yes they can fix this by making money spent retroactively on EVERYTHING in the web store, even the freebies should count towards the new currency, then it will begin to make a bit more sense.

kus234

Another stupid and silly features where developers spent hours and hours but for a waste cause...

I feel the Product Analysts were high when design this feature

YodaKaj

Buttehrs

Best thing ever though because this is actually happening 🤣

Hudo

I can provide a little context here.

When this feature was developed, someone asked me what I thought should be in the store. I don't think we need any additional incentives to spend in the webstore. Anybody who knows about it and has the ability to spend there is already doing it, because there is substantial additional value compared to in game. So anything we put in this store is just free stuff. So I told them I thought we should just do cool, exclusive cosmetics, because we don't really do that anywhere right now. I'm hoping eventually we can do stuff like hire famous Marvel artists to do limited profile pics (imagine a 1 of 1 foil profile pic only one person can own).

Then someone said they thought there had to be something there instead of cosmetics for players that don't care about cosmetics, and they asked if they can put a loyalty crystal in it, and I said sure because nobody is going to ever buy it so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I fine with whatever prices there are, because that is the point, extra free stuff. But I think Summoner sigil owners should get loyalty because they spend every month.