Wheel of Fate - Kabam Acknowledgement

Can we get some comment on this from Kabam maybe?

From my own experience, people in my ally and the general consensus from content creators, this content hasn't been enjoyed by the vast majority of players.

For 'aspirational Everest content' or 'most difficult content in the game' i feel it has done really well, it was difficult, there was alot of demand on roster and planning needed which I enjoyed and think helps it live up to this expectation.

But I think there are some big issues, one being ignorance around the Dust situation, a champion that is known to cause buggs, lag and even over heat people phone placed here is a crappy thing and forcing those to fight this champion 3 times is a rough oversight.

The biggest issue I see is the rewards. There is zero longevity here, for such a tough piece of content the rewards are poor, Act 7.2 and epoch offer similar/better rewards for less or the same effort but easier to compete.

I really think the spread of rewards was terrible, they are underwhelming in general and there is nothing that will have players coming into this content 6-months from now.

I really wish Torch was in the selector as that would have made the content to much more valuable and being the only place (after next week) to get one of the best attackers in game would have made the content needed for most players even years from now.

I really hope Kabam do respond, maybe acknowledge where this content could have been better and hopefully show that something like this won't being released again unless it is improved upon and the player bases reviews are heard

Comments

Buttehrs

They've responded in the other threads about WoF. Basically what they said was, its not meant for everyone. We tried something new. We aren't updating or changing it and not updating rewards. Either do it or don't. And hopefully yall like the next endgame content.

Herbal_Taxman

I think the selector will retain its value over time, at least somewhat. The basic has gotten so big at this point, it’s impossible to hunt a champ once they are gone from the Titan. I could see someone grinding through WoF just to guarantee access to Serpent or Bulls or whomever if they haven’t been able to get them from the basic.

Kabam Crashed

I can comment a little bit on the rewards. One thing players have been telling us is that regular content isn't rewarding enough, and too much emphasis was being placed on ultra-endgame Everest rewards. This led to an experience where most sessions didn't feel rewarding while player rosters were still progressing very quickly.

We have been working to correct that, by moving rewards to regular content (Valiant EQ, Daily Super Event, other upcoming plans which players will see soon) and systemic game modes (Radiance). This means that Everest content will have worse rewards relative to the rest of the game. It's what players wanted, this is what that looks like.

If I could go back in time I would have structured it so that the payout of the rewards was more consistent across the three quests. But the total reward package wouldn't be changed.

Buttehrs

If you think about it this way, if you leave it alone until you got most of the 7* available later on, you can still go through it for the selector if your missing one of those champs or a titan. Plus some t7b wich will hold value for a good while and a 7* awakening gem. By that point, it shouldn't cost you much in resources for those items. Then it'll be worth it.

Kabam (Osaurus) Rex

At this point, I'm pretty sure I've acknowledged comments on this content more than anything else we've released in the past year.

We aren't going to be able to comment the same things on every thread made on the same topics.

Herbal_Taxman

Good point. Especially if you’re only blocked by one of two champs.

ahmynuts

I want to chime in and say that this is still a good thing. A very good thing. Its just that the reward ratio did not much the structure and difficulty of the quest they were assigned to. I dont think many will complain about tje distribution being weighted more toward casual content, its just that you can't expect to just reduce rewards while increasing the difficulty and making the format extremely restrictive without major backlash and outcry. Because it does not make alot of sense.

captain_rogers

No Crashed. Don't listen to the people who say we need less reward for everest and more for casual content. We need rewards for each content based on the difficulty of the quest.

Bugmat78

I know the game has a set economy (ie no more than this amount of catalyst or shardsetc can be given out) so won't argue with that statement too much, though I still feel better rewards should be in harder content. A compromise to reduce the risk that ppl do no content at all because the rewards suck for easier content is a delicate balance to find, so I can understand this being an attempt at that.

But I definitely I agree (and stated as such in previous WOF threads) that these rewards should have been been more evenly distributed across the 3 quests, because truth be told none of the quests were ultimately harder than the other outside of roster checks. What some perceive was the easiest quest of the 3) could have been the hardest for me due to being roadblocked by a lack of roster.

Also looking forward to where the usual sig stones we get in everest content will be, as it was totally omitted in WOF rewards.

Gamer

Why no experience wouldn’t had hurt or would it.

TheUglyone123

I think this is 100% true. This problem is a unique one to this quest. The overall concept with DSE, radiance, and the valiant EQ have all been incredibly successful and a great addition to the game. I think that’s why wheel of fate is receiving this critique. We have had so many great additions to the game, but this one just didn’t quite hit the same level. The reward to difficulty ratio is off, and the excessive restrictions on roster is an artificial way to increase difficulty.

Some ways to keep this content relevant and truly aspirational would be to put in a true unique reward into the content, like maestro in necro, or something similar to that. Or just add some additional rewards that have been in other aspirational content, sig stones, refined xp, etc. (I think Mike mentioned this another thread already). Or, and I know that there is a budget, but make the rewards just a tier up from what it is now. As it stands, this content will be outdated soonish, outside of the R4 mats. Just some personal thoughts, hopefully this made sense and was helpful

VanillaCoke

But you were the one that said one of 12 defenders.

CrashOut

I understand the whole budget on rewards side but could we not have added something valuable/unique for the quest?

In future, that would be good.

GroundedWisdom

He didn't say Torch. Let it go.

Zacharias10719

I dunno, I'm not sure it's a good idea to release content that you describe as 'the hardest content you've released' and then give it undercooked rewards because you gave us valiant eq.

I get that you have a rewards budget to balance but surely hard content should be rewarded accordingly otherwise you'll end up in a couple of years asking why no one is bothering to do end game content anymore.

Pikolu

Time to nerf story content rewards then. The difficulty to reward ratio is insane there with being able to get a r4 of your choice for a lot less difficulty than epoch exploration and a lot less roster needed than wheel of fate all 3 quests.

captain_rogers

Ok I take my statement back.😭😭

I mean, WOF upper tier rewards are already good. Just few sigs and we're golden.

Also gotta agree 9.2 rewards is too much for the difficulty.

Standardman1989

There is too much everest content but it doesn't matter if people don't want to go there do like me 😉

DinoHop05

I don't disagree with the general sentiment here, you're right that "regular" content should have the proper share of rewards (and the examples you mention are great for that). The issue I see with Wheel of Fate specifically is the lack of reward longevity. Because it requires a broad and varied roster, many players can't beat it now, though they will in a year or two. But in that time, shards and the small amount of partial R4 materials will be very outdated.

There should be at least one reward that incentivizes people to play this content in a year or two. Without that long-term value prospect, be it an exclusive champion, a mastery point, a choice of AG, or something similar, WoF will just become Abyss of Legends as players look at the pain of the content as more and more disproportional to the rewards. Content like Necropolis has longevity in large part due to those few special rewards, like Maestro, that players can't obtain anywhere else.

The exclusive rewards don't need to be the lion's share, or even as valuable as a mastery point. But you need something for future players to look at the content and say "Okay I am strong enough now to conquer this, and I'll feel like my time is well spent to obtain the items at the end." You spent a lot of time developing WoF. Don't let it become obsolete so quickly.

Frumpy_geezer

Just to the point that the rewards will be outdated... How exactly is that? It's going to be a little bit before we get R5 7* and they need these materials also (4 t7b and 6 t4a). Completing this in a year could very well be needed in order to get your first R5. I'm not defending the WOF but I don't think this is the right argument. I think they missed a few key things to make it a little better for the difficulty of it like sig stones. And by difficulty I mean tediousness of it. I really hope the next time they do this it is like the crucible and doesn't lock you or your champs into a quest.

ItsClobberinTime

Why do that tho? All that will do is increase the gap between p2w and f2p because whales no longer need to do endgame content to keep up just do casual content and keep whaling out and the rosters will always have a huge advantage, that makes no sense to me. Endgame content should to a certain extent be more rewarding than everything else in the game except for sales. It's like lately the only thing you guys care about is whales lol the ads disguised as livestreams with multiple "pay and get this" offers were only the beginning.

BKSwisherSweet

Acknowledged at this point that they’re not going to fix anything

Furrymoosen

So rather than Valiant EQ actually adding rewards exclusive for Valiants into the game, it's actually taking away from rewards elsewhere in the game. This reward budget conversation that keeps coming back sure is a frustrating one. I guess in one sense it is keeping some Valiant rewards away from Paragon players, which is a plus, but it's also making the more challenging content less worthwhile. It's kinda like where TB is now. Players can sit and not do challenging content and grow their rosters like no tomorrow. Are we really already going to add Valiant in with all the other progressions that can get rewarded without a challenge? And then add on top of that a lack of rewards when a challenge is presented?
It just doesn't make sense.
And regardless of the "budget", WoF still should've had sig stones and refined XP at a minimum.

FaustOutLoud

I think they need to make something a bit different then Crucible 😆. Crucible was fun but the reason it was is because of the nodes and Interactions in Act 7 thats why it was such a Good piece of content. Now that everyone loved it it feels as though all new content has become Crucible New Valiant EQ Crucible style new Endgame content Crucible I don't mind this approach but I would love to use some OG synergies that we don't get chances to use often anymore especially in Endgame stuff the Abyss was a 5 man brawl remember the 4 Horseman and then add a little space to that with Heimdell and you have Nick on your team ohh the good Ole day's. Hopefully we can eventually get stuff where synergies become a thing again. New champs still come out with great synergies some are very well thought out and work well with the champs brought into a quest but the problem being is there's nowhere to use it really.

Peregrinus

One of the biggest flaws of Wheel of Fate is that this content cannot be played concurrently with story/event/side etc. Quests. This was a great advantage of Crucible.

Kabam, please add this option to all time-consuming special quests.

Chovner

Yeah if I could plug away at this content over a large amount of time without sacrificing being able to play all other content (outside of BGs, AQ, and AQ), I might consider doing it slowly, but if I jump in now then I'm committed to try and bang this out ASAP to not miss out of other "more rewarding" regular content.

Buttehrs

Not for all of them. Ones like this and crucible sure. But ones like necro, abyss etc should stay as one quest at a time type thing.

BringPopcorn

I lived in a 3rd world country with economic disaster, and even then I think the ingame economy, distribution of rewards and budget is confusing af to not say worse.

out999

In short, the mercenary Kabam only thinks about increasing the distance between those who pay and those who don't.
They forgot it was a game a long time ago.
I bet that by next year they'll start charging even for the dolls' abilities, it won't be possible to play for free anymore.
And all that money and no interest in solving bugs to improve the user experience.

DNA3000

I'm pretty sure it is you that forgot this is a game. The vast majority of players play it completely for free, having spent exactly nothing on it, and the vast majority of players do not see the walls closing in on them like you seem to, because they play MCOC as if it is a game, where the only objective is to play it. For players who just play the game, there's no issue with the gap between spenders and non-spenders. There's just what can they get for their time.

And what they can get is: they can get to the top progression tier without spending. They can do all the content without spending. They can compete in all the competitive game modes without spending. They can eventually collect the vast majority of the champions released in the game without spending. And if they want to, they can grind out literally thousands of dollars of premium currency for the game without actually spending cash.

There's a lot of valid criticisms about Wheel out there. Is the difficulty appropriate. Are the rewards properly scaled and distributed. Is the target audience too small. There's some honest disagreement to be had there. But only a bitter malcontent who probably should have quit the game long ago would try to forklift their own dissatisfactions into every discussion about anything.