Trying to reconcile the “deals are bad” vs “the deals give an unfair advantage” paradox.

Trying to reconcile the “deals are bad” vs “the deals give an unfair advantage” paradox.

Disclosure: I’m a valiant with a well developed roster, I spend occasionally - sometimes quite a lot. I bought and maxed milestones in all previous offers except red and dead.
I have 23k units I grinded for and will not be buying anything this J4 season.

I think the deals are quite poor for several reasons:

1. The value isn’t gradual. The first pass forces you to spend 18k units while giving you less than what you got for 15k 3 months ago in the 9.2 deal: no full r4. Actually, up to 30k, you get 1 r4 and some fillers.
The entirety of value lies in deal #8 which got bumped up in price for no apparent reason. This “all or nothing” attitude leaves us with a very bad taste.
2. On the other hand, the deals, to those who decide to go all in, units and cash - grant you A LOT of value: 5 rank 4s, 3 awakening gems, a plethora of nexus titans and selectors, heaps of signature stones. Lastly, Torch.
3. ⁠The unfair advantage: a newly made valiant can just skip all the content I worked my ass for, and get almost the same number of r4s I have for cash. This cheapens my effort, and is due to the fact Kabam skipped a progression level for 7r4s.
On the other hand someone who decides to go all in after putting in the work in game will have 14 r4 champs - which will put him way ahead in competitive modes.
These two scenarios just promote FOMO, and might force someone unwilling or unable to spend - to spend nevertheless just to keep up.
4. Having no middle ground or value in lower deals or even the first pass makes people with considerable amounts of units (that are not 39k) feel like their stash is meaningless, hence any grind put in to acquire said stash is also a waste of time.
5. This deal and its’ price increase follow a year of pay walled champs, with increasing frequency. This contributes a lot to the feeling of being overwhelmed and frankly squeezing the lemon.

This could easily have been remedied with a tweak to the deal structure without changing the essential value:
First pass for 18k gives a class AG and a class 3-4 gem.
Second pass through the deals gives generics. They could even add a last 3k deal with torch and extras.
The funny thing is this was the exact structure of r3 rank ups in “sinister games” only a year ago.

A more gradual approach to the value of our units would prevent extreme value to people who go all out vs the vast majority who just sit on heaps of units. It would also prevent extreme unevenness in competitive modes.

Comments

Squammo

You got some really good points there. I would also add something regarding the cash deals. If we can get 1 1/2 t7b, why not also add the other half of the materials we need? It would have made a rather big difference in my opinion. For the first time I’m really torn if I should get the in game deals with my saved up units. The biggest reason for me to get them are the titans. But those I would be saving until September, so I would have basically nothing to open right now. Having to pay 7500 units for 1 Titan and 1 t7b also really hurts, because we all know that those will significantly lose in value over the next months and who knows there might be some necropolis level stuff coming soonish with rewards better that all the sale combined.

smdam38

Most of the spending offers give a temporary advantage.

Is there something you’re stuck on that buying these offers will help you get through that you feel like you need to get through now and can’t wait?

Sundance_2099

Schrodinger's deals.

Yaron_aviv

Most of the spending offers give a temporary advantage.

Is there something you’re stuck on that buying these offers will help you get through that you feel like you need to get through now and can’t wait?

Considering r4 materials are only available through end game content or deals, and the next deal is cyber weekend in 5 months - that’s a 5 month uphill battle in BGs.

smdam38

Battle for what though?
If you need or want to be top of game immediately then maybe it makes sense for you. Which is fine.

I just don’t get it. If money isn’t an issue for you and you have nothing else going on in your life then sure.

But it seems dumb to me to just drop thousands of dollars on a mobile game you don’t even own.

Your account isn’t even yours. Kabaam owns it and can take it away any time they want.

Furrymoosen

Most of the spending offers give a temporary advantage.

Is there something you’re stuck on that buying these offers will help you get through that you feel like you need to get through now and can’t wait?

Temporary, yes. But that temporary used to be just a couple months and now it's several months. Paying players should get an advantage and should always be a step ahead, but now it seems like rather than a step ahead they are already onto the next race. It will now take true FTP players (which would have probably 3-4 R4s max by now) probably upwards of a year to catch up to where the big spenders are right now with another dozen or more R4s than anyone else. You know how much bigger that gap is going to be in a year the way things are going? You know how many favorite champs are going to be put behind a massive paywall a year from now?
The existence of a gap between spenders and FTP has never been the issue because it is indeed temporary. Spenders are always ahead, but FTP has never been more than a few months behind at all times. The gap is absurd now, both because of the lacking accessibility to earned high level rank rewards and the increasing monetization of champs we used to be able to earn or only wait a few months to have access to in crystals.
Kabam is going in a terrible direction and the temporary advantage that spenders have is becoming more and more permanent.

Yaron_aviv

Another issue is that aside for endgame content and deals, top 7* progression cannot be reached through gameplay. Radiance price of t7b serves the top 0.1% of BG players, t7b isn’t available in glory loyalty or token stores.
So yeah, a 5 month gap is huge. It means that if you skip the deals, the only competitive mode that matters is not going to be fun, to say the least. And this adds a lot to the feeling of being extorted, in order to stay anywhere near the top of the game.

altavista

3. ⁠The unfair advantage: a newly made valiant can just skip all the content I worked my ass for, and get almost the same number of r4s I have for cash. This cheapens my effort, and is due to the fact Kabam skipped a progression level for 7r4s.
On the other hand someone who decides to go all in after putting in the work in game will have 14 r4 champs - which will put him way ahead in competitive modes.
These two scenarios just promote FOMO, and might force someone unwilling or unable to spend - to spend nevertheless just to keep up.

I agree with all your points but do have to push back on this one.

Players are a little too precious about the "effort" they put in and thinking that money shouldn't allow a player to achieve equal footing if they didn't put in the same effort.

This is a game - ostensibly it is fun (whether it is in collecting champions, fighting matches, or feeling accomplished by achieving some personal milestone) and wastes some time. While the dopamine hit from rewards and the openings from the rewards is undeniable, there should still be something beyond the rewards itself that most players play this game for.

Theoretically a player that played Necropolis achieved something personally, on top of the rewards. A "new Valiant" player that buys those same rewards does not have that sense of personal achievement. Does it "cheapen your effort"? Only if you think the only point of playing this game/endgame mode is the rewards you end up with.

I do agree with the concern of "needing to spend to keep up", but that is only in competitive modes, and only if you fancy yourself as swimming in that pool. For most players, I would wager that it is not a big concern at all, since most players are not spending enough to where they would be in that high spending cohort. For most players who match up against someone with a similar roster strength, it doesn't matter if you got a 7R3 from Necropolis and they got a 7R3 from buying July 4th offers.

Yaron_aviv

3. ⁠The unfair advantage: a newly made valiant can just skip all the content I worked my ass for, and get almost the same number of r4s I have for cash. This cheapens my effort, and is due to the fact Kabam skipped a progression level for 7r4s.
On the other hand someone who decides to go all in after putting in the work in game will have 14 r4 champs - which will put him way ahead in competitive modes.
These two scenarios just promote FOMO, and might force someone unwilling or unable to spend - to spend nevertheless just to keep up.
I agree with all your points but do have to push back on this one.

Players are a little too precious about the "effort" they put in and thinking that money shouldn't allow a player to achieve equal footing if they didn't put in the same effort.

This is a game - ostensibly it is fun (whether it is in collecting champions, fighting matches, or feeling accomplished by achieving some personal milestone) and wastes some time. While the dopamine hit from rewards and the openings from the rewards is undeniable, there should still be something beyond the rewards itself that most players play this game for.

This could have been true if not for previous gatekeeping of high end rewards by Kabam through the use of progression levels, and deals tailored to progression.
And I get that, kabam wants you to be engaged with the game and feel accomplished. That was a good thing.

But now, they went ahead and did the opposite.

BigBlueOx

I mean this is the new normal sadly. Spend $800 or deal with the FOMO.

BringPopcorn

Google reminded me over the weekend that last week I spent 3.5 less hours on my device.
Spending on something that I am losing interest on seems silly, good thing the sales are meh.

Searmenis

Sales aside, the word "competitive" added in high end progressive content that makes you face other players is used very loosely. We all know you can't be in top alliances (with a few special cases exluded) if you don't have top and high ranked champions. Things that you aquire by spening and not by being a good player.
Want real competition? Make BGs 3 or 4 stars mode. Everyone has the same opportunities, different skills and mindsets to make their deck. But we all know this will never happen because, well, money.

Toproller89

July 4 used to be valuable deals but I think Kabam dialled it down a bit after 2023 and realised they need to slow down or power creep and economy inflation will happen.

Even more so now that the game is more PVP than it ever was in the past.

I like my dopamine fix as much as anyone else when these sales roll around but it might be for the best that they are not too OP.

And I think Banquet will be much the same as last year with the lacklustre contents from the crystals, I only hope they increase iso and gold amounts from these so it’s a chance to stockpile.

ItsClobberinTime

Exactly my thoughts, f2p and low spenders get little value out of the offers, even if you spend around $400-$500 the stuff you get isn't really game changing it's really only when you go over the $600 mark that you start getting really good stuff which is dumb.
I get most people complained about July 4th giving the whales a massive advantage last year but this year it's kinda worse, they made rewards mid not just for f2p but low spenders and then still gave the whales multiple r4s. If you're going to nerf offers do it for everyone not everyone BUT the whales.

Shrodinberg

These offer are more and more becoming all or nothing.
We were used to have a little something for 5k or 10k, now it's like " nope i'll keep my 20k , thanks for the free 7* Nexus i guess🤷"

startropics

believe it or not, there used to be a time when we had a 1x purchase limit during the big events instead of 4x today, so going "all out" on cash deals cost $200 TOTAL, not $800.

so ask yourself who is getting screwed. whales are paying 4x more (actually more than that since there's more events now) while getting the exact same game experience they did in 2016...and f2p is still tagging along the same as ever. YOUR cost of zero dollars hasn't changed, theirs has quadrupled if not much more. so who's winning and who's losing?

Searmenis

believe it or not, there used to be a time when we had a 1x purchase limit during the big events instead of 4x today, so going "all out" on cash deals cost $200 TOTAL, not $800.

so ask yourself who is getting screwed. whales are paying 4x more (actually more than that since there's more events now) while getting the exact same game experience they did in 2016...and f2p is still tagging along the same as ever. YOUR cost of zero dollars hasn't changed, theirs has quadrupled if not much more. so who's winning and who's losing?

Whales don t care if they spend $200 or $2000. Except for addicts and delusional youtubers.

JESUSCHRIST

The deals are bad refers to the unit deals bcos units can be acquired for free

The cash deals in webstore are the real money maker, Kabam wants players to buy units with cash and buy unit offers with unit

So if you do that, buying units in webstore and buying unit offers with those units, you will get alot of advantage over the competition

Essentially everyone in celestial is a whale

FaustOutLoud

I used to spend alot i used to buy out all the Money offers but now that its 39k Units for all the unit offers i can no longer buy all the Odins the $50, $30, $10, $5 Dollar deals because it won't equal the 39k Units unless cough cough ridiculous you buy all the Relic Deals. Now here's what's extremely messed up about those I hear that Kabam will release new ways to open these new relics therefore the 6* Relic Nexus won't even work for the new Relocs coming which is absurd. Will they also add all new Ways to rank and level them too why just why because they are a tad different. Just more ways to Monitize its quite sad.

I'm still spending money 💰 on offers but im extremely disappointed that 1 year ago with the Kraven 7* event we could max that entire event with 18k Unit's. Now its 39k Units for J4th not to mention 1 month before those deals went live we just had a 39k Units Heart of Fire Event does kabam really think a ton of players have 80k-100k Units just lying around ready to be used thats absurd and were not even done the year yet or other box key or Omega level events still to come not to mention. Cyber weekend deals and then Gifting 🎁. It looks like we'd need to have close to 150,000 Units or better yet 200,000 Units for 1 year of Mcoc deals that in my opinion is insane.

In closing I wish we could go back to $600 Dollar buy out the store deals and all the unit deals go back to the way they used to be at 18k if it stays at this level kabams going to start to lose people even the Whales im hearing won't spend on upcoming Gifting Event's kabam created these problems now they need to fix them.

Herbal_Taxman

believe it or not, there used to be a time when we had a 1x purchase limit during the big events instead of 4x today, so going "all out" on cash deals cost $200 TOTAL, not $800.

so ask yourself who is getting screwed. whales are paying 4x more (actually more than that since there's more events now) while getting the exact same game experience they did in 2016...and f2p is still tagging along the same as ever. YOUR cost of zero dollars hasn't changed, theirs has quadrupled if not much more. so who's winning and who's losing?

Whales don t care if they spend $200 or $2000. Except for addicts and delusional youtubers.

Gimme addicts and delusional YouTubers over self-important ftp clowns any day.

BringPopcorn

Eww FTP clowns

Abspain101

I mean at the end of the day atleast those youtubers get tax write offs for the money they spend on the game

BigBlueOx

Eww FTP clowns

I’ll never understand ftp purity and whale shaming mindset. What do they think they’d do with their time without whales?

It’s like spitting at the guy who just gave you a free beer…

BringPopcorn

Eww FTP clowns
I’ll never understand ftp purity and whale shaming mindset. What do they think they’d do with their time without whales?

It’s like spitting at the guy who just gave you a free beer…

Oh its cause they can do the content without spending and people who spend probably wouldn't be able if they didn't.
You know the type of people that do repairs with a kitchen knife instead of a screwdriver and have every screw stripped

Toproller89

I mean at the end of the day atleast those youtubers get tax write offs for the money they spend on the game

Or are sponsored by Raid Shadow Legends in some cases

Searmenis

Eww FTP clowns
I’ll never understand ftp purity and whale shaming mindset. What do they think they’d do with their time without whales?

It’s like spitting at the guy who just gave you a free beer…
Oh its cause they can do the content without spending and people who spend probably wouldn't be able if they didn't.
You know the type of people that do repairs with a kitchen knife instead of a screwdriver and have every screw stripped

Wannabe MacGyvers

BringPopcorn

Eww FTP clowns
I’ll never understand ftp purity and whale shaming mindset. What do they think they’d do with their time without whales?

It’s like spitting at the guy who just gave you a free beer…
Oh its cause they can do the content without spending and people who spend probably wouldn't be able if they didn't.
You know the type of people that do repairs with a kitchen knife instead of a screwdriver and have every screw stripped
Wannabe MacGyvers

Nah they are just clowns, its like spenders have to feel bad about funding the game they enjoy playing.

Searmenis

Eww FTP clowns
I’ll never understand ftp purity and whale shaming mindset. What do they think they’d do with their time without whales?

It’s like spitting at the guy who just gave you a free beer…
Oh its cause they can do the content without spending and people who spend probably wouldn't be able if they didn't.
You know the type of people that do repairs with a kitchen knife instead of a screwdriver and have every screw stripped
Wannabe MacGyvers
Nah they are just clowns, its like spenders have to feel bad about funding the game they enjoy playing.

I was reffering to the kitchen knife dudes, I had an uncle with this mindset, every chair in his house ended up crooked.

filledwithlove

No idea why some of you guys are still complaining over the monetization and stuff when most of you are addicted, experience severe FOMO and are morally inconsistent. Just like your favorite content creators, doesn't matter if you complain or not, you'll still buy the deals, you'll still spend money and keep the wheel turning. Most of the spenders are complaining despite already getting all the offers only because they couldn't get as big of an advantage as they'd have liked over those that are spending less. Do you think Lagacy for example actually cares about the game economy and balance while requesting a r3-4 gem per odin? I wouldn't mind it if these content creators had made clear that they don't really care about the community but mainly for their channels. They declared a boycott supposedly in order to make a change and it lasted only for a few days, things only got worse from there with unit costs increasing with every event. You act like you can't support such wrong policy from Kabam and then go back to spending in just a few days cause "content creation". Why act like you're seeking proper treatment if you can't break away from Kabam's control, why should they care if you're not as determined as you claim to fight for it?

Kabam won't change their approach to monetization just cause you're also complaining while buying the deals. They have you all under control and this will go on till the game eventually dies cause nobody can control their urge to spend. Such incoherent communities are always destined to lose, there won't be any improvement if you can't unite as one and its quite clear that its never happening with this community.

TLDR: Don't feel bad over the aggressive monetization as its not something you can possibly have control over. Nobody cares enough to make a change, it doesn't matter if you actually do. Just accept the nature of the game and move on.

skylight03

3. ⁠The unfair advantage: a newly made valiant can just skip all the content I worked my ass for, and get almost the same number of r4s I have for cash. This cheapens my effort, and is due to the fact Kabam skipped a progression level for 7r4s.

LOL. This sounds so self-important.