Wait.. Cull Obsidian can't heavy counter Zola?

I realized I had never tried, so just did a practice fight to try it out.. with his upcoming tune up and release as a 7, he was probably who I was most excited about.. sure, he can parry Zola, but in many situations where it really matters in competitive modes like AW you can't usually parry stun Zola anyway based on placement

Realizing this just sucked a lot of the excitement out of his release for me.. so this is huge if he is intended to be marketed as a Zola counter.. his dash back needs to be fixed to match most other XL champs.. and yes, fix his damn block proficiency...pretty please, with sugar.. thank you:)

Comments

hungryhungrybbq

And by "can't" I mean reliably or consistently.. sure with an ultra deep evade (dex at the last possible frame before being hit by it) he can sometimes clear the heavy in one dash back, but most champs in the game can do that.. it's the combination of deep evade plus good heavy reach that you need

But while not all XL champs have the reach to connect afterwards.. almost all of them can clear the heavy with one dex.. Culls dash back seems shallow for an XL I think

ahmynuts

I dont recall them mentioning Zola when they talked about Cull, could be misremembering though, it was a loaded stream

ItsClobberinTime

Well, considering how quickly he does that fight after the buff, there has to be a downside so I'm kinda glad it is the way it is. If he was able to punish Zola's heavy just like that I feel like it would we way too easy and it's too early to have a champ shut down Zola almost completely.

hungryhungrybbq

Well, considering how quickly he does that fight after the buff, there has to be a downside so I'm kinda glad it is the way it is. If he was able to punish Zola's heavy just like that I feel like it would we way too easy and it's too early to have a champ shut down Zola almost completely.

Yeah but without heavy counter he's absolutely useless against him in AW at all and any "no parry" meta in BGs (which is often:)

hungryhungrybbq

I dont recall them mentioning Zola when they talked about Cull, could be misremembering though, it was a loaded stream

I'm not saying it was specifically mentioned.. it usually isn't
But it's pretty clear to the community he *could* have been a great counter attacker

ItsClobberinTime

Well, considering how quickly he does that fight after the buff, there has to be a downside so I'm kinda glad it is the way it is. If he was able to punish Zola's heavy just like that I feel like it would we way too easy and it's too early to have a champ shut down Zola almost completely.
Yeah but without heavy counter he's absolutely useless against him in AW at all and any "no parry" meta in BGs (which is often:)

Yeah but in AW there are so many champs you can use, it's not as hard and draft dependant as in BGs and time doesn't matter so allowing him to hard counter him completely in AW would just make his defensive value continue to drop when it's already dropping because of all the defenders who can counter his heavy but aren't exactly fast.

As for BGs, not really the only metas that would hurt Cull are fully stun immune metas and those are extremely rare. Purify or cleanse metas he will still be able to do as long as you can reparry.

hungryhungrybbq

Well, considering how quickly he does that fight after the buff, there has to be a downside so I'm kinda glad it is the way it is. If he was able to punish Zola's heavy just like that I feel like it would we way too easy and it's too early to have a champ shut down Zola almost completely.
Yeah but without heavy counter he's absolutely useless against him in AW at all and any "no parry" meta in BGs (which is often:)
Yeah but in AW there are so many champs you can use, it's not as hard and draft dependant as in BGs and time doesn't matter so allowing him to hard counter him completely in AW would just make his defensive value continue to drop when it's already dropping because of all the defenders who can counter his heavy but aren't exactly fast.

As for BGs, not really the only metas that would hurt Cull are fully stun immune metas and those are extremely rare. Purify or cleanse metas he will still be able to do as long as you can reparry.

Shall I assume you have a rank 4 Zola as mostly a defensive investment?

but yeah.. so Cull will cook Zola in non-competitive modes like story quest or EQ.. unfortunately that's pretty worthless

I'm not saying I want him to be overpowered, but I wanted him to be viable in AW? Yes, there are 300 champs to use in AW, but the topic is using Cull? As a character to be excited about the tune up/release

And if they don't fix his block proficiency won't he be useless in BGs too? Where health actually matters or am I wrong?

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, but I was pretty excited about him and the lack of heavy counter against a defender we all had in mind for him, plus no tune up to block proficiency just feels disappointing

ItsClobberinTime

Well, considering how quickly he does that fight after the buff, there has to be a downside so I'm kinda glad it is the way it is. If he was able to punish Zola's heavy just like that I feel like it would we way too easy and it's too early to have a champ shut down Zola almost completely.
Yeah but without heavy counter he's absolutely useless against him in AW at all and any "no parry" meta in BGs (which is often:)
Yeah but in AW there are so many champs you can use, it's not as hard and draft dependant as in BGs and time doesn't matter so allowing him to hard counter him completely in AW would just make his defensive value continue to drop when it's already dropping because of all the defenders who can counter his heavy but aren't exactly fast.

As for BGs, not really the only metas that would hurt Cull are fully stun immune metas and those are extremely rare. Purify or cleanse metas he will still be able to do as long as you can reparry.
Shall I assume you have a rank 4 Zola as mostly a defensive investment? but yeah.. so Cull will cook Zola in non-competitive modes like story quest or EQ.. unfortunately that's pretty worthless

I'm not saying I want him to be overpowered, but I wanted him to be viable in AW? Yes, there are 300 champs to use in AW, but the topic is using Cull? As a character to be excited about the tune up/release

And if they don't fix his block proficiency won't he be useless in BGs too? Where health actually matters or am I wrong?

Sorry, not trying to be argumentative, but I was pretty excited about him and the lack of heavy counter against a defender we all had in mind for him, plus no tune up to block proficiency just feels disappointing

No just r3 lol and that's where he's staying because I already think he's losing some value, not a lot but a little bit. I mean he can still cook him in non stun immune nodes in AW even if it doesn't happen too often, and he will definitely be cooking him in BGs on most metas as long as parry and reparry are possible.

I don't mean to be argumentative either but I think it's pretty clear at this point that AW is not a relevant game mode, or at the very least not as relevant as it was which is why we had Big Thing season in the first place. Very few people play in the higher leagues even with radiance being added as an incentive. I'm aware they buffed him so he could start with charges in war too but the buff itself I think was focused mainly on BGs which is where Zola's causing trouble the most.

If you can parry and reparry no, also you have to keep in mind stat focus is a thing now and I'm 100% sure statcast relics will allow you to give him even more block proficiency to the point where that will no longer he an issue unless you're straight up fighting on stun immune nodes.

Not for me personally, for one I think changing his animations to make it work would be too much work, and second I don't think he should be allowed to cook Zola everywhere in 35 secs because again that would kill a lot of the defensive value Zola currently has. Look how long after Bullseye was released it took for us to get Gentle, Cull would essentially be what Gentle is for Bullseye if he was able to do what you're asking for and Zola's too new to already be getting counters that shut him down everywhere with zero skill involved but that might just be me.

Kabam (Osaurus) Rex

I dont recall them mentioning Zola when they talked about Cull, could be misremembering though, it was a loaded stream

Cull obliterates him

GilbertoJunior

They din't show anything about his block proficiency or new ability to midgate the damage

WednesdayLength

They din't show anything about his block proficiency or new ability to midgate the damage

Because he doesn't need it. He has standard block proficiency for an xl champion and stat focus and potentially a stat cast will do a lot to help

GilbertoJunior

They din't show anything about his block proficiency or new ability to midgate the damage
Because he doesn't need it. He has standard block proficiency for an xl champion and stat focus and potentially a stat cast will do a lot to help

his block proficiency is 56% and XL champions stat increase barely helps, it's 4% at R1 and it scales to like what? 8% at R3?

even with that it still low

"Because he doesn't need it" even when he released that was a problem and you are the first person all those years i see saying that

most XL have a way to midgate or reduce the damage they take,Cull solo special block effect is parry non contact, it's a good effect but doesn't make up for the bad damage reduction

if his Thanos buffs increase block proficiency then it wouldn't be a problem since it's his core mechanic but It doesn't soo the damage on block still a problem

Even with a Parry the damage reduction ins't as much as it should

ahmynuts

I dont recall them mentioning Zola when they talked about Cull, could be misremembering though, it was a loaded stream
Cull obliterates him

Very good to know

Rayven5220

They din't show anything about his block proficiency or new ability to midgate the damage
Because he doesn't need it. He has standard block proficiency for an xl champion and stat focus and potentially a stat cast will do a lot to help

My dude.....
The whole reason he was never used back in the day is literally because of his garbage block proficiency....

ItsClobberinTime

They din't show anything about his block proficiency or new ability to midgate the damage

We need to wait and see how much stat focus and statcast relics change that, trust me they're not oblivious to the fact that his block proficiency is garbage but there has to be a reason as to why they didn't change it.

ahmynuts

They din't show anything about his block proficiency or new ability to midgate the damage
We need to wait and see how much stat focus and statcast relics change that, trust me they're not oblivious to the fact that his block proficiency is garbage but there has to be a reason as to why they didn't change it.

DLL basically said they didn't change it because its not bad for an XL champ and you can put the stat focus on him if you really want

WednesdayLength

They din't show anything about his block proficiency or new ability to midgate the damage
Because he doesn't need it. He has standard block proficiency for an xl champion and stat focus and potentially a stat cast will do a lot to help
his block proficiency is 56% and XL champions stat increase barely helps, it's 4% at R1 and it scales to like what? 8% at R3?

even with that it still low

"Because he doesn't need it" even when he released that was a problem and you are the first person all those years i see saying that

most XL have a way to midgate or reduce the damage they take,Cull solo special block effect is parry non contact, it's a good effect but doesn't make up for the bad damage reduction

if his Thanos buffs increase block proficiency then it wouldn't be a problem since it's his core mechanic but It doesn't soo the damage on block still a problem

Even with a Parry the damage reduction ins't as much as it should

He will have 2 new ways of mitigating his block proficiency, however strong it is. If the block proficiency stat focus isn't enough then you could always go for the extra adrenaline instead. He is reliant on parry heavy but it's not like it's the entire basis of his kit, you can heavy counter or just not go for all 10 armor breaks, which also pause more consistently meaning less need to re apply

WednesdayLength

They din't show anything about his block proficiency or new ability to midgate the damage
Because he doesn't need it. He has standard block proficiency for an xl champion and stat focus and potentially a stat cast will do a lot to help
My dude.....
The whole reason he was never used back in the day is literally because of his garbage block proficiency....

My point is that as a 7 star and with new relics he can mitigate that, he doesnt need it on his base kit and dll has already said he has standard block proficiency for an xl champ

hungryhungrybbq

They din't show anything about his block proficiency or new ability to midgate the damage
Because he doesn't need it. He has standard block proficiency for an xl champion and stat focus and potentially a stat cast will do a lot to help
My dude.....
The whole reason he was never used back in the day is literally because of his garbage block proficiency....
My point is that as a 7 star and with new relics he can mitigate that, he doesnt need it on his base kit and dll has already said he has standard block proficiency for an xl champ

This is false.. his block proficiency is lower than all the other XL champs I have checked.. markedly lower than certain ones actually

Edit: actually.. I stand corrected - while there are some with better proficiency, there actually are a lot with similar as well