They partially went back on Spider Woman Nerf,not completly

GilbertoJunior

You won't have the ability accuracy reduction but Anti Evade still there, better than nothing

Comments

GilbertoJunior

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/404518/dev-diary-finding-a-middle-ground

the full thing in case you wanna read

ahmynuts

zerodude

In my opinion, it was a good outcome, not the perfect scenario where they just didn't remove it from offense.

Rafikii

I really don't want to come off as greedy or anything… but am i the only one feeling like they're still missing the mark here?

Cool they gave us the evade counter back… but the AAR was still apart of it. If they were able to implement this, why not just keep fumble the same while only taking ensnare away from her defensive kit? Like, it feels like they're just beating around the bush MORE. This still doesn't seem like they wanted to "nerf her on defense only."

"Elders’ Marks will be staying and will act as the exclusive entry into Competitive Ranked Battlegrounds.
Now, Elders’ Marks will no longer be directly purchasable for Units; however, you can convert 15 energy into 90 Elders’ Marks at any time in an unlimited fashion."

Maybe I'm not fully understanding this… instead of taking away elder marks, they now just made it the EXCLUSIVE currency, but made it cost 15 energy… That's literally the same thing as just… taking them away and making it cost energy only?

Okay, you want it to be a proper way to distinguish the two, fine… and it's cheaper unit wise, but, who was even spending units on Elder Marks and are we still going to get them from ranking up/rewards? I used mine given from ranking up, and used energy if i ran out.

The issue wasn't the amount of units it cost, it was balancing running the 5 different daily objectives while also trying to stay competitive.

I know someone's going to immediately say "well, they're a business, they want you to spend on units." If that's the only answer then sure… but, why make all these "changes" to act like it's meeting us in the middle? It's just them beating around the bush even more.

ItsClobberinTime

Personally, I find this change healthier even on attack that ensnare sometimes made certain defenders like Thing and Onslaught way worse. For example sometimes the ensnare would fail Thing's rock stacks while he was at 14 and he would throw the special at 14 screwing me over completely, the same would happen with Onslaught sometimes that ensnare would fail his reversed controls during sp2 and you just died.

I think this is a good healthy change, and if this had been what they wrote in the announcement at first most of us wouldn't have cared in the slightest.

GilbertoJunior

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883221#Comment_2883221

At this point we just read and accept the fact they have ther own reason and mentality of how the game should work, They changed the fumble into a evade counter and that was already a good outcome from the mess themselfs created

let's see how long till similar mistake is made again and things explode once more, for now i'm gonna try to enjoy some peace and see what i can gather for Franken Castle (even tought his likely good to decent attacker because his mainly defender

OldManHop

I'm tired.

Ercarret

I like the change. I agree with @ItsClobberinTime in that I dislike unreliable abilities. The AA reduction of Ensnare is cool in situations where it doesn't really matter, but when you need pinpoint precision, having a 30% of things failing can be detrimental. And having things fail 30% of the time whenever you fought her was excruciating. Even if you brought in champions that should be able to counter her, those counter abilities could fail and you'd be screwed anyway.

Meanwhile, I believe Kabam when they say that this will make her an even more reliable evade counter since her opponents now won't be able to shrug off the debuff that shuts down their evade. I think that's a fair compromise. You lose a little and you gain a little, but overall I think both changes make her more reliable on both attack and defense, and that's ultimately a very good thing. I'm still happy that I have her ranked up.

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883221#Comment_2883221

The way I read it is that you can buy EMs with energy rather than units. If it works the way I think it does, that would mean that you could trade in your energy whenever you're not using it for EMs. Before you go to bed, for example. Let's say you've got 15 energy left after doing a quest or something, you can just trade that in for some EMs. You don't have to spend that excess energy actually doing Battlegrounds there and then, but can instead cash it in so that you have more EMs to use whenever you actually want to use them.

If that's how it works, it sounds as if it gives us as players a lot more freedom with how we spend our time in BGs.

TheUglyone123

I agree with @ItsClobberinTime and @Ercarret this change will make her more reliable with a part of her kit that I ranked her up for: her evade counter. While you lose some aar, I wasn’t ranking her up to be a mini domino, I was ranking her up cause she’s the new spider ham, plus an evade counter. So I’m content with this change

Kabam (Osaurus) Rex

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883246#Comment_2883246

If I had a nickel for every time I dashed directly into Onslaught's SP2 because the Ensnare decided to fail the Reverse Controls Immunity…

TheUglyone123

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883254#Comment_2883254

“I’d have two nickels…which isn’t a lot, but it’s weird that it’s happened twice!!”

(I really hope y’all get this reference 😂)

EdisonLaw

I like the change, sure she won't have the AAR any longer, but at least she'll still counter evade

unknown

This content has been removed.

Kabam (Osaurus) Rex

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883258#Comment_2883258

One of my most used phrases lol

ShoNuff29

better than nothing for sure, but I’ll still miss that AAR. Came in clutch so many times. I think I’ve only “had” to fight onslaught with her like twice in BGs, so the reverse control issue in that 1 niche scenario isn’t enough for me to want to trade it away. The fact that defense keeps being mentioned is annoying/frustrating because they could simply just take it away on defense only. The fact that the change STILL will involve offensive changes means there’s something still being unsaid about her offensive output that they don’t want her to have anymore.

EdisonLaw

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883267#Comment_2883267

It can sometimes be quite annoying though, a 30% AAR can be unpredictable at times

Rafikii

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883238#Comment_2883238

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883244#Comment_2883244

I have to disagree. There are a lot of champs where this can happen, and we just don't use them in those match ups. And that could have even been the case with SW's nerf, just don't use her against evade champs. Do we see this issue with okoye? Sure, so we use someone else for whatever that fight might be.

How many champs do we have were an ability can "screw us over" because of a miscalculation or a bad match up? The amount of times heavy after heavy from AA doesn't place a single bleed. It feels as bad as accidentally stopping an ability that you expected to go off. It's all percentile chances that are built into the characters

As for her debuff not being able to be shrugged off, that's again, just a case by case scenario, where you could have chosen to not fight a certain champ with her.

I was fine with her having ensnare taken away, because I believe she would have been fine WITHOUT being an evade counter and having no AAR. I'm fine with her having an evade counter, that is even better with fumble. I'm not fine with how this entire situation was handled and how we were "met in the middle." IF it were her defensive abilities they were worried about, WHY WAS FUMBLE CHANGED INSTEAD OF THE ISSUE BEING REMOVED FROM HER DEFENSIVE KIT? Why can't we say what it is: the ensare was an issue on defense AND it seemed to strong for some match ups on attack. Why did this have to change when we have other defenders with more complaints.

I'm all for champs being up for a nerf if needed. I just wish these guys could have been more open and honest about it. Without having to be all "see what we do for you all?"

You can justify how you'd like, at the end of the day it's all an opinion. But this feels wrong.

ShoNuff29

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883270#Comment_2883270

I get it, but I’m personally fine with it. Without some variance, the only other option for her or any champ would be 100% AAR or none at all. That’s no fun lol.

Rafikii

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883270#Comment_2883270

Do you happen to run the pacify mastery by chance?

I get no matter what happens everyone's going to disagree. But let's not pretend that SW is the only character that reduces less than 100% ability accuracy and there's more champs to compare her to than just domino. Meta and non meta champs have this AAR sprinkled in EVERY class, multiple times in a lot. But, again, this isn't about whether she loses ensare or regains an evade counter somewhere else without AAR, it's about how the entire situation was handled.

This doesn't even touch on the rest of the potentially concerning things in the original post.

Carmel1

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883254#Comment_2883254

I still don’t like the change to spider women.

The ability reduction is a huge plus for me on attack, especially vs the auto block node in AQ path3.

As defender, it’s the fumble that makes her over the top defender.
if the problem is onslaught’s sp2, can change the revert control to be unaffected by ability accuracy (as I think it should be vs any champ/node/mastery that reduce ability)

Ashtontonic

There’s a reason so many spenders have walked away and turned FTP and more players exit the game…

The moment you feel happy pulling something good, it gets nerfed in the next update. Excitement killed. Joy gone.

It’s like buying a Ferrari that can reach 350 km/h—only for the manufacturer to push an update a week later that limits it to 300 km/h because it was “too powerful.”

Goodbye…………………………………………………………………

Rafikii

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883328#Comment_2883328

While I disagree with the people defending this change/back pedal, I also disagree with this. We should be striving for a balanced and fun and interactive game. Things SHOULD be subject to change.

I think the issue is, this was and shouldn't have been the top priority of things to change. In fact, a lot of what has been announced wasn't really asked for, in terms of better gameplay and overall enjoyment.

_Kill_Switch_

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883279#Comment_2883279

Completely agree. Can't tell you the amount of times I wish I could turn off auto evade on certain champs, Spider Woman being one of them ironically.

Also, with every passing moment and comment, it's gotten pretty clear that Kabam didn't like the possibilities that ensnare opened up on certain (if not all) top defender match ups on offense and they should've just came right out and said it. We probably still would've been frustrated but they would've been honest and getting back the ability to counter evade would've felt like more of a W.

Carmel1

Just finished few wars using Spider Woman on path 3, and her AAR saved my ass against the auto-block node, and also vs Kindred on the encouraging stun node with one of the stun timer to fail and his last root failed too… so don't tell me that removing her AAR is not a huge NERF or it's only affecting her on defense.

ItsClobberinTime

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883537#Comment_2883537

So what happens when that same aar fails Onslaught's reversed controls and you dash into that sp2? Or when it fails Thing's rock stacks at 14 and he throws the special before he could get to 15 so now you have to take the unstoppable to the face.

That aar isn't reliable enough to even shut down any of the nodes you're mentioning, it's not strong enough for it to be reliable you're just complaining for the sake of complaining at that point.

Carmel1

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883624#Comment_2883624

you can say it on many other champs / mastery that affect ability.

If kabam care, they can say that reverse control don’t affected by AAR.
another thought is maybe not to use her for these matchups…. Not every chalk can take any defender.

Carmel1

Rafikii

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883624#Comment_2883624

I don't understand how this is all of a sudden an issue when like half the champs in this game provide some sort of AAR.

ItsClobberinTime

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883700#Comment_2883700

You're literally using her on an autoblock node when she has nothing to deal with auto block because even that ensnare is unreliable it's barely 30%, take your own advice and use someone who actually counters auto block because not every champ can take any node.
Well, she will be able to take both once the ensnare is gone, why on Earth would you be against that I just don't get it lol

ItsClobberinTime

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2883704#Comment_2883704

It's not that it's an issue, it's just that the negatives far outweigh the positives. I would never use Spider Woman for that aar because it's barely 30% it's completely unreliable, and like I said it can screw you over against certain defenders you literally replied to my whole explanation lol. What's the issue with someone wanting her to be easier to use against certain defenders?