I'm officially calling time of death on the heavy counter technique in the current game version

I have another complaint post regarding control issues, AI tuning/recovery times and how these two separate issues combine together to make the game nearly unplayable.. at least from a competitive mode stance
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/404427/input-control-issues-are-particularly-bad-for-me-this-update-anyone-else/p2

I love this game.. and actually I'm not too upset with most of the other issues the game is currently facing or anything like that.. it's just that it's reaching a point of actual unplayability for me regarding completive modes

What inspired this latest post is that I was simply trying to do some practice duels against meta defenders in preparation for this AW attack phase and what I'm finding is that I simply cannot heavy counter reliable anymore.. at all

And I'm just sitting here thinking.. what am I meant to do here? Against these meta defenders on stun reflection, debuff immune.. or any node or defender that would require heavy counters for successful use of the tactic or even the fight itself.. walking into high tier AW with so much uncertainty (which in the previous season was: will I get a disconnect?) about how my controls will work or will the AI have a crucial frame advantage when they shouldn't.. etc. just take fun out of my favorite game mode and reason for playing

I know there are so many issues and priorities rn, but please keep making the actual combat work correctly a priority.. thank you

https://youtu.be/JYGWWn-LyME?si=Zyvzn1e9lyGFYmm2

Comments

SirGamesBond

I know it's true. The recovery speed is way too quick. It's same for midchantress and sinister.

Thank you, red skull for being a snail on heavy recovery.

The heavy counter is unreliable vs many champs if they have a special attack.

I'm fine with AI dexing my specials sometimes, Or shallow dexing combo or even light intercepts. BUT I don't like unfair fight mechanics, like frame skipping and the intercept hit box skipping.

They don't want to fix this before implementing AI2.0.... wonder when that's gonna happen.

hungryhungrybbq

Yeah, varying special attack recovery times across different champs has always been a thing - and I'm ok with that

Regarding special punish.. it's always been matter of spacing manipulation and/or dexing "early" within the successful dex window (how early or late you can dex and still avoid the attack)

But something is different with heavy recovery now.. and it's not character specific - I am failing to connect heavy counters against characters I have fought hundreds of times (with literal 100% success rate) due to recovery times now

As for what you are saying about if they have a bar.. yes, but what that means is they are simply choosing to use the frame advantage they have.. my point is they shouldn't have it to begin with

Example: AI whiffs a heavy - player immediately inputs a heavy

The AI has a few choices.. and it's it simply their choice of next input that determines the outcome

block -heavy lands
attempt basic attack - heavy lands
special activation - heavy doesn't land
dex - heavy doesn't land

But all this is besides the point.. the point is that the character who evades a heavy attack (heavies are supposed the largest recovery of all basic attacks) are supposed to have frame advantage against the character who whiffed the heavy

After playing for 10 years, my experience has always been as described above.. because recovery from a dex input is shorter than execution of a heavy that doesn't connect.. it always resulted in a momentary frame advantage for the character who dexed the heavy?

SirGamesBond

I have fought enchantress since day 1. This regularly happens in the corner. Like heavy to heavy counter doesn't exists. Sinister is even faster, even normal medium counter doesn't work many times, he just trows sp1.

I know I know, what you are saying.

They are aware of the recover speed issues.

hungryhungrybbq

Gotcha.. you agree it's across the board, but also citing specific offenders who have been that way since release

hmm.. yeah you are right about Enchantress.. I usually heavy counter in between hits 2 and 3.. but in the corner that's not an option exactly

GroundedWisdom

It's horrible for me. The game play is so tight now because of the reaction time, it feels more like a movie than a game.

ChiliDog

I can't get strikers and specials to work in the gaps half the time...timing is too perfect by the AI. But more $$ is all that matters.

hungryhungrybbq

yeah, strikers being blocked appears to happen way more frequently now too