Ascended gentle is severely under performing

I want to start with some ground work on ascension increases your damage during the iso burst and when out of it.

Below are Gentle and Lizard Medium and Light attacks during and out of iso burst.

As you can see, the basic attacks are scaling with around 14.5 to 15 % during iso burst for both lizard and gentle.

Problem comes when special attacks are considered, especially when daunted comes to picture. Below are Gentle's SP2 attack and reverb with 13 daunted.

As you can see the percentage increases are all over the place, intended iso burst numbers are provided in the bottom considering a 14.5% increase in iso burst. With how reverb is working right now you would expect 14.5%*14.5%=31.1% increase in reverb dmg. None of this is working as intended.

My theory on why this is happening is that daunted is broken. Daunted is not being multiplicative with iso burst but instead is getting added to it as if daunted is same effect as iso burst. This goes against the forum post about protection and daunted.

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/411024/hulkling-valkyrie-and-update-to-damage-interaction-effects?utm_source=community-search&utm_medium=organic-search&utm_term=daunted

Gentle is getting very minimal benefit from ascension because of this, this can't be healthy based on the recent post about vigor and echo effects. Shouldn't ascension boost all the characters alike, daunted and iso burst interaction needs to be fixed.

Comments

waaaaybig

I have gone through their wording on gentle and silver samurai adjustments in the echo effects - vigor post. What does daunted have to with how echo interact with global attack modifier, isn't it supposed to only affect raids and big thing wars?

There is some thing you are not telling us. Please be transparent, if what I assume is right i.e daunted is just a masked vigor only on specials, how are you going to fix the echo effects that scale with daunted. And how are you going to make sure daunted champs don't get the shorter end of the stick when it comes to vigor considering it is additive with vigor. Is iso burst worthless for daunted champs? Is gentle worse against Ares than say someone without daunted?

Johnnoooooo

Gentle and samurai have been underperforming for a while now... Especially gentle Vs Yelena, daunted seems to have no impact on her... 23k sp2 critical hits on Yelena when fully ramped, Vs 56k on anyone else.. same story for SS.. been ignored when mentioning this multiple times

SgtPoliteness

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939937#Comment_2939937

The way Daunted works is that it amplifies damage taken during special attacks. The interaction with Echo is that Echo is based on the original white damage from the hit (which was boosted by Daunted), and then gets Daunted applied again to the red damage. This allows it to double-dip on effects that multiply damage.

These combos are most noticable if you've ever run the Siphon Slider or Vicious Placebo boosts in raids. Those boosts massively outperform the others, with champs able to do millions of damage in a single special attack. The base hit multiplied by the role boost and then by the Daunted. Then the target takes the Echo damage, which is multiplied by the Raid Boost, the Daunted, and the Vicious/Siphon effect.

waaaaybig

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939939#Comment_2939939

Yelena has two things that stop gentle from doing large crits. She caps his attack rating to 100% in observation mode, so he doesn't benefit from attack increase due to daunted. She also caps his critical damage rating to 50% through her sig ability, though this shouldn't stop gentle as his crit dmg rating is halved during sp2 anyway. Try taking her to elim mode before sp2, you will see much better results.

waaaaybig

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939940#Comment_2939940

Isn't he meant to do more reverb damage with more daunted? It is even mentioned in his deep dive, that his red numbers will be boosted by daunted. That will be fixed by kabam I guess, which is very tricky if you ask me, as now the reverb damage percent should increase with each daunted as opposed to final multiplication by daunted. There was no mention of daunted in the post though until they mentioned gentle in the post.

Still there is the problem of iso burst not scaling well with daunted. Any input on why that is happening?

ahmynuts

Just wait until he gets nerfed soon

Johnnoooooo

@waaaaybig I thought daunted bypassed yelenas defensive kit

Squidopus

If I may offer my own opinion, and I do ask you read it to the end…

I don’t think the way it seems to be working contradicts the post about Daunted at all. The post simply says the Protection and other damage decreasing effects are a separate multiplication process to damage increasing effects; it still says that damage increasing effects, like Daunted and probably ISO-Burst, are added together, well, additively. I think this is working how I might expect it to, in a vacuum (we’ll get to that in a bit).

In fact, according to your data, you’re exactly right about your assumption. Gentle’s 13 Daunted add up to a 120% damage increase. Increase it by 15% (roughly what ISO-Burst amounts to) additively to get 135%. Do the math (2.35/2.20), and you get a relative percentage increase of about 6.8%, just about exactly what you got with your data in terms of hit damage. The ~13% increase to Reverb follows from that in the same way you got the “expected” numbers.

However, if Iso-Burst does additively combine with Daunted, then Gentle is kinda getting the short end of the stick, as you said. I consider the reality of the intended implementation, removed from a vacuum, to be that ISO-Burst was intended to be a very even-handed approach, where everyone got the same buff and no one was more capable of using it than others. There’s a reason they didn’t make ISO-Burst just, say, a Fury Passive which would affect many ascended champs differently. Similarly, there’s a reason they are attempting to nerf Echo damage, to further the goal that general damage increases like Vigor, Daunted, and, yes, ISO-Burst apply to everyone equally. I think ISO-Burst working as it (seemingly) does now contradicts that, and it should be corrected to work as a separate multiplier like you expected it to be.

Squidopus

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/2939939#Comment_2939939

Crits being lowered vs Yelena is actually an expected result. Awakened Yelena caps the opponent’s Critical Damage Rating, with the cap reaching as low as 50% of the starting value at max sig, so champs should be Critting for less against her. That’s normal. And no, Daunted only raises the Attack Rating cap, there is no way to raise or bypass the Critical Damage Rating cap besides taking Yelena out of Observation mode.

And on that note, Daunted does indeed only raise the Attack Rating cap from 60% to 100% of starting Attack. This effectively removes it from consideration from champs like Onslaught and DPX in base fights, because they had no capacity to raise their Attack beyond the starting 100% anyways. Gentle, however, does gain Attack Rating boosts from Muscle Mass, and being locked to 100% of starting Attack still prevents him from getting those Muscle Mass boosts. Yelena is, unfortunately, stupid like that, and this is why having a Daunted champ like Onslaught doesn’t suddenly allow you to delete her from existence with Attack Rating boosts from nodes (best demonstrated in BG metas like Power Shield or, more recently, the Invade one).