Venom/Carnage brainstorming (a buff discussion)

Mr_Otter

Last time I went over simplistic buffs for the 6 symbiotes and while that worked for most of them 2 stood out as near unredeemable with only these minimalistic buffs

VENOM
Now venom is definitely old. But he has a unique concept I think can be built upon. I see a jet black beast able to punish buff reliant champs by turning those strengths against them.

* Increase base bleed chance slightly
* When at 5 natural buffs gain passive regeneration as the Symbiote believing itself peak condition without outside help now tries to preserve that peak condition. Old man Logan levels but for each unique buff on venom it gets a bit stronger.
* Sp1 now has 100% replication chance
* Sp2 now has 100% replication chance to copy 2 buffs (increase duration)
* Sp3 can copy up to 5 buffs (significantly increase duration)
* *when replicating multiple buffs Venom will attempt to absorb different buffs (stacked buffs are considered different). If the opponent has less buffs than what can be replicated Venom will replicate the same buffs repeatedly
* 50% evasion reduction against “Spider” champions
* The more buffs Venom has replicated, enemy Buff Potency is reduced by 10%
* Replicated buffs are not effected by the potency reduction

* PERSISTENCE! If venom ends a fight with 7 or more buffs (natural and/or replicated) he gains a persistent change as he consumes and adapts to the rich ISO-8 in his enemies becoming far more powerful. Each PC gives him 25% chance to auto-replicate enemy buffs (obvious maximum 4)
(Slight edit: auto-replication via Persistence would only have the instance the buff is placed to auto-replicate)

CARNAGE

Son of venom and serial killer LETS HAVE FUN

2 Obvious fixes:
* Bring his stats up to average
* Instantaneous mutation
And now the inventive part

PERSISTENCE! Each kill brings Carnage joy and pleasure as he finds new means and techniques to finish enemies
1. Non-mutated passives are worth double their permanent counterpart
2. A passive aptitude buff is active at the start of the fight providing a 50% potency boost to all mutated buffs
3. Bleeds with critical hits: 40% chance
4. Learning from the enemy he passively replicates all the buffs the last enemy he fought had at the end of their life.

Please do not hesitate to give feedback on these ideas and show Kabam we still expect the grandmaster to improve older and lesser champs!

I’m also taking requests to go over my next buff-brainstorming however please note I already have Hulkbuster and Abomination planned and while they will be radical they need to be so.

SpiritOfVengeance

Venom is relying too much on copying buffs to help him he should keep the buffs that he has COPIED from his last fight and if he dies then he loses the buffs.

Also he should have his own fury ability like agent venoms. I say this because sure agent venom loses control but venom is unleashed already from the start no holding back. His bleed chance and damage of bleed should also increase while this special fury is active.

Mr_Otter

SpiritOfVengeance wrote: »

Venom is relying too much on copying buffs to help him he should keep the buffs that he has COPIED from his last fight and if he dies then he loses the buffs.

Also he should have his own fury ability like agent venoms. I say this because sure agent venom loses control but venom is unleashed already from the start no holding back. His bleed chance and damage of bleed should also increase while this special fury is active.

The Klyntar are a race predicated on enhancing life. Venom is actually a sad tale of a Symbiote being abused repeatedly. Aside from when it overloads Spidey’s rage to feed itself and being used by Eddie it spends the rest of its life being either agent Venom (still abused to a degree by the US military) or as a guardian of the galaxy. It IS a good being it just has a bad habit of bonding to the wrong people and being unable to leave. When it gets attached to a serial killer in the newer comics it HATES him but the dude LITERALLY mentally tortures the poor Symbiote into submission. I just don’t see it able to unleash that rage by itself. Flash lost his legs in the army and the combination fear of losing his ability to walk each time the military forces it off him and military history plus being friends with Spiderman allow venom to realize “Spider-Man’s friend is good. Trust him as a hero to save people. Trust him to keep us from losing control”. I do think he needs a special bleed enhance chance (perhaps special attacks have increased flat chance to bleed each hit per unique buff)

Mr_Otter

@SpiritOfVengeance

I know is isn’t as powerful as venom COULD be by even making him a valuable champion to abuse cosmic enemies and their fondness for buffs plus champions in other classes that do the same would at least allow him viability as a UC event champion as he’d be able to copy nodes as well like fury, precision, cruelty, all that!

“I can turn all that fury against you and even use it multiple times more”

Imagine that against Angela, Hela, Drax, Cyclops, Hyperion, Mordo, Star Lord, GROOT, OML, Ultron, Stark Tech, I mean he wouldn’t be a counter but it’d be an equal playing field against buffed enemies

Colonaut123

I've had this bookmarked because I needed to think and study the characters. I can't still wrap my head around Carnage and how to make him better, so I've no comment on that.

However, I did study Venom carefully and come up with some of my own ideas (which you can find here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/73396/venom-rework-for-upcoming-venom-movie).

However, I'm here to comment on your ideas.

1. I think we both agree the chance to bleed should increase, either by just boosting it (your idea) of making it only when critting and connect it with Bloodlust (my idea).
2. I played with the idea of a Regeneration buff myself but I thought: Venom can acquire already so many buffs, why adding even one more? It is just too much.
3. I don't think the chances to replicate shouldn't change. It would make Venom too powerful if he has 100% chance to replicate when using Sp1.
4. I agree he should replicate 2 buffs but the point of replicate is to, yeah, replicate. So he shouldn't alter anything to the replicated buffs (maybe refresh the timer).
5. Five buffs?! That's insanely OP!
6. I think he should be immune to Evade all together. Not many champions use it anyways, so it wouldn't hurt. It wouldn't count for Dexterity.
7. Again, the point of Replicate is to replicate the buff as it is. Besides, Venom is strong enough as he is without needing a buff potency reduction.
8. Persistence is an interesting idea. Let me give another angle to it: after the fight, Venom consumes all permanent buffs. Each buff consumed gives a persistence charge that increases the potency of the permanent buffs in the next fight by 1% (so per fight you can increase potency by maximum 5% to 6% (with Carnage synergy)).

V3N0M0U5_JU57IC3

Oh 5 buffs is “insanely OP? What about Hyperion? You don’t think he is OP with the amount of furies he’s capable of pumping out? I’m not comparing the two cuz it’s obvious hypes is stronger than venom. Venom should be able to copy opponents and keep the buffs he’s replicated throughout fights, some sort of a persistent charge mechanic sort of way...

V3N0M0U5_JU57IC3

Also #8, might as well not have it in at all..it isn’t beneficial at all. Keeping all his acquired furies seems to be a better idea and not convert them at all. Or if we go by that idea, he converts them to create an even more powerful buff??

Kobster84

Also make venoms passive buffs scale better like a 3 stars fury gives him like 200 attack as a rank 1 and a 5 star rank 4 gives like 250?

Colonaut123

V3N0M0U5_JU57IC3 wrote: »

Oh 5 buffs is “insanely OP? What about Hyperion? You don’t think he is OP with the amount of furies he’s capable of pumping out? I’m not comparing the two cuz it’s obvious hypes is stronger than venom. Venom should be able to copy opponents and keep the buffs he’s replicated throughout fights, some sort of a persistent charge mechanic sort of way...

I think Hyperion is the wrong kind of comparison because he's a God. I don't think every champion should become a God. Replicating five buffs at once on top of his own buffs is beyond balanced.

Colonaut123

V3N0M0U5_JU57IC3 wrote: »

Also #8, might as well not have it in at all..it isn’t beneficial at all. Keeping all his acquired furies seems to be a better idea and not convert them at all. Or if we go by that idea, he converts them to create an even more powerful buff??

If we would execute the idea of OP, the current Fury buff has to be nerfed (which would be a real shame and makes Venom unplayable in the arena's) to accommodate the fact it is transferable. If however he would just consume the buffs (and maybe also the replicated buffs) into a buff potency boost of let's say 1% to 5% per buff, that wouldn't necessitate a nerf.

SpiritOfVengeance

It aint beyond balanced he should be able to gain the buffs you need and not random useless ones that don't really help his defenfe or offence. At least carnage can switch between buffs. The only thing venom has going for him right now is his speed.
Why can't one of the symbiotes be god tier with this new beta test?
It also aint all about buffs if I am fighting someone with armour I need to break the armour or steal it not just copy the armor buff I don't require defence I require the temporary increase in attack. The symbiotes should be able to adapt to their enemies by exploiting their weaknesses and then taking advantage by destroying them once their weakness if found.
Venom should be able to copy passive buffs as well.