You're free to ask, but the Forum is also for other Players to comment, and people are free to express their opinions and views. Which is what I did. It's not two-way commutation with Mods.
You're free to ask, but the Forum is also for other Players to comment, and people are free to express their opinions and views. Which is what I did. It's not two-way commutation with Mods.
You are free to have and post your opinion. Please state it as an opinion. You have said "they are not going to" and you are 99% sure, which isn't very opinionated a post.
I think we can all agree Kabam is the only one that knows how Kabam will handle the situation. All I am asking for is them to tell me and the rest of the community if alliance leadership will have a way to determine who in the alliance caused them to get an AW rating deduction, so they can remedy the problem before too much damage is done to the alliances season. Seems pretty fair an ask to me.
I can understand that Kabam does not want to reveal playernames who were found in violation of account sharing to their alliance leader. It is not the most ideal situation for both parties. I also think most would find the reducing of war rating an acceptable and corrective punishment and not many are asking their war rating to be re-instated. The problem lies with an alliance being punished for crimes unclear to leadership of what and who were found in violation, so preventative measures can’t be executed to the fullest.
For future violations of account sharing/piloting, I would like to see another warning message sent directly to the accounts found in violation that caused the punishment to an alliance. This message could be vague and just say “You have been found in violation of our TOS and in turn your alliance’s war rating has been reduced.” This allows confidentially to remain with the player. Should they choose to divulge that information to their alliance is solely their discretion (I hope that they would). But it allows more insight into why an alliance is being punished and I think would solve the many issues in this thread.
I can understand that Kabam does not want to reveal playernames who were found in violation of account sharing to their alliance leader. It is not the most ideal situation for both parties. I also think most would find the reducing of war rating an acceptable and corrective punishment and not many are asking their war rating to be re-instated. The problem lies with an alliance being punished for crimes unclear to leadership of what and who were found in violation, so preventative measures can’t be executed to the fullest.
For future violations of account sharing/piloting, I would like to see another warning message sent directly to the accounts found in violation that caused the punishment to an alliance. This message could be vague and just say “You have been found in violation of our TOS and in turn your alliance’s war rating has been reduced.” This allows confidentially to remain with the player. Should they choose to divulge that information to their alliance is solely their discretion (I hope that they would). But it allows more insight into why an alliance is being punished and I think would solve the many issues in this thread.
It still wont help leadership fix the problem unless the cheater posted the message they received saying they violated the TOS.
I'm not saying I know the solution, but it has to be something better than "your alliance cheated" and "good luck to you finding out who is responsible." these quotes are sarcastic quotes and not an actual quote from anyone lol.
I can understand that Kabam does not want to reveal playernames who were found in violation of account sharing to their alliance leader. It is not the most ideal situation for both parties. I also think most would find the reducing of war rating an acceptable and corrective punishment and not many are asking their war rating to be re-instated. The problem lies with an alliance being punished for crimes unclear to leadership of what and who were found in violation, so preventative measures can’t be executed to the fullest.
For future violations of account sharing/piloting, I would like to see another warning message sent directly to the accounts found in violation that caused the punishment to an alliance. This message could be vague and just say “You have been found in violation of our TOS and in turn your alliance’s war rating has been reduced.” This allows confidentially to remain with the player. Should they choose to divulge that information to their alliance is solely their discretion (I hope that they would). But it allows more insight into why an alliance is being punished and I think would solve the many issues in this thread.
It still wont help leadership fix the problem unless the cheater posted the message they received saying they violated the TOS.
I'm not saying I know the solution, but it has to be something better than "your alliance cheated" and "good luck to you finding out who is responsible." these quotes are sarcastic quotes and not an actual quote from anyone lol.
Yeah but it’s a compromise on both sides. Kabam has never divulged account names to others for any reason before and I don’t think they will start now.
I can understand that Kabam does not want to reveal playernames who were found in violation of account sharing to their alliance leader. It is not the most ideal situation for both parties. I also think most would find the reducing of war rating an acceptable and corrective punishment and not many are asking their war rating to be re-instated. The problem lies with an alliance being punished for crimes unclear to leadership of what and who were found in violation, so preventative measures can’t be executed to the fullest.
For future violations of account sharing/piloting, I would like to see another warning message sent directly to the accounts found in violation that caused the punishment to an alliance. This message could be vague and just say “You have been found in violation of our TOS and in turn your alliance’s war rating has been reduced.” This allows confidentially to remain with the player. Should they choose to divulge that information to their alliance is solely their discretion (I hope that they would). But it allows more insight into why an alliance is being punished and I think would solve the many issues in this thread.
It still wont help leadership fix the problem unless the cheater posted the message they received saying they violated the TOS.
I'm not saying I know the solution, but it has to be something better than "your alliance cheated" and "good luck to you finding out who is responsible." these quotes are sarcastic quotes and not an actual quote from anyone lol.
Yeah but it’s a compromise on both sides. Kabam has never divulged account names to others for any reason before and I don’t think they will start now.
I'm not saying they should give names. They should do something different than nothing though.
EDIT: they are doing temp bans, but this should happen along side something else like them being auto removed from the alliance.
They seem to be extremely firm on their stance of not giving any info to the leader or officers. I understand if they feel like that could be a potential liability for them.
However, I see no reason why they can’t (as has already been suggested in this thread) simply remove the cheater from the alliance.
Why not just make an across the board policy that while your account is banned you aren’t allowed to be in an alliance?
Can anyone give any reason why this wouldn’t work?
Mods, I’m not going to tag you..but this is an important thread and really deserves an answer. I know you guys are reading.
You should never, ever penalize a player for something that a) they did not do, b) could not have prevented, and c) have no way to avoid in the future. To penalize an alliance for the actions of a single player (or even a small group of players) is literally no different than fining everyone driving on Friday because one person was caught speeding. Of all the priorities Kabam has - to protect the privacy of disciplinary action, to revoke the rewards from alliances that benefit from cheating - they somehow have completely failed to set the number one priority to be the obvious one: don't penalize players unfairly. Penalizing players for the behavior of others and giving those players no way to isolate themselves from that behavior is the very definition of capricious discipline.
MMOs have a term for this. It is called griefing. Creating an environment where players who cheat can bring down penalties on surrounding players, and those players have no way to know who's triggering those penalties, is a form of griefing. And the MMO industry as a whole learned long ago that players' right to privacy ends where griefing begins. If you allow privacy to **** griefing protection, in the long run that's extremely damaging to the player community. This is something every game company should simply know on day one given how axiomatic it is supposed to be nowadays. You shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel here.
Nailed it. ABA (applied behavior analysis) theory lists factors that contribute to how effective consequences will be with removing undesirable behaviors. One of these factors is that the person receiving the consequences must be able to associate their consequences with specific behaviors.
In MCOC context, removing war rating points from alliances that hack/mod or pilot AWs will only work in theory if those alliances know which players are cheatzing. If an alliance does not know which of their members is cheating, removing war points without informing alliance leaders or officers which member is responsible for their penalty is not an efficient consequence. Think of a parent who takes away their kid’s driving privileges because they found out their kid broke curfew. If the parent doesn’t tell their kid why they’re losing their driving privileges, chances are their kid will continue to break curfew.
And before forum members start disagreeing with this post, ABA theory is backed by decades of peer-reviewed research. Just one of many reasons why it’s considered one of if not the most reputable paradigm of psychology.
Just an idea but couldn’t Kabam just send a message to the alliance leader saying
“A person or people have been found to be violating tos would you like to remove them from the alliance yes/no
That way they don’t actually have to disclose the name(s) of said cheaters and the alliance can get rid of the person causing the problems .
It would be obvious who it was when someone is removed.
Well yes , it would obvious but surely that would be better than leaders/ officers having to investigate who it could be ,causing tension and distrust within the alliance , eventually finding out who it was , kicking them and everyone knowing who had cheated anyway .
It would be obvious who it was when someone is removed.
And what if they don’t get removed? Since kabam don’t disclose how they deal with people, how do you know that someone will be removed. They may just suffer the war rating penalty and nothing happens. Or there could be a 1 day ban, there are occasions where I don’t log onto the game over one day. Nothing out of the ordinary there.
cheaters should be banned. PERIOD. there is no defending anyone who cheats and kabam should let us know who is a cheater so we can blacklist them and force them to make new accounts and start from the bottom
cheaters should be banned. PERIOD. there is no defending anyone who cheats and kabam should let us know who is a cheater so we can blacklist them and force them to make new accounts and start from the bottom
Attitudes like this are exactly why I support privacy. I do not condone cheating. I do not condone Smear Campaigns either.
If you have a competitive mode, there has to be a way for the team to better itself. If there is no way for the team to have the information to better itself there shouldn't be a competitive aspect.
All kabam would need to do is send a message to the leader in game and say. This person in your alliance has been found to be using mods/hacks. We have suspended them and leave further action in your hands. Seriously it’s that easy. That way the leader knows and can tell the officers if he feels it’s necessary. That doesn’t compromise people’s privacy much.
@DNA3000 horrible analogy, not everyone driving on Friday was fined, however everyone in the car who was party to it were issued warnings.
And this is really alot of hubub about fears rather than facts. You don't know what comes after the first penalty incurred relating to specific players piloting; or how people want to paint cheating as “greifing” which gives leeway to cheaters who as a point of fact are not honest in the first place. For all you know the second infraction is just a flat out ban of the player with no change in war rating for the alliance as the first adjustment will have already done its damage in relation to war season.
cheaters should be banned. PERIOD. there is no defending anyone who cheats and kabam should let us know who is a cheater so we can blacklist them and force them to make new accounts and start from the bottom
Attitudes like this are exactly why I support privacy. I do not condone cheating. I do not condone Smear Campaigns either.
It’s not a smear campaign if someone is caught cheating. They broke the rules and should be kicked out. Why are you defending cheaters? That’s like defending a ****.
Once a crime has been committed, even Nazis are entitled to a defense.
All kabam would need to do is send a message to the leader in game and say. This person in your alliance has been found to be using mods/hacks. We have suspended them and leave further action in your hands. Seriously it’s that easy. That way the leader knows and can tell the officers if he feels it’s necessary. That doesn’t compromise people’s privacy much.
I might be on board with this, except there would need to be language in the TOS (and a reminder in the message) that would make it a violation for a leader to share this type of information, in an attempt to reduce the probability of blacklisting.
While we understand the request that you are all making here, it is simply not possible for us to do. Ignoring the fact that this is a violation of our privacy policy, it is also just not physically possible for us. Additionally, it is your responsibility as an Alliance Leader or Office to ensure that you're comfortable with the Summoners that you let in to your Alliance.
This is definitely easier said than done, but communication goes a long way. Additionally, we also have our regular banning policy in place for Summoners that do cheat in these game modes. That means that they can still receive bans for cheating and breaking our Terms of Service as well. This is a good reminder to everybody. Don't cheat.
Comments
You are free to have and post your opinion. Please state it as an opinion. You have said "they are not going to" and you are 99% sure, which isn't very opinionated a post.
I think we can all agree Kabam is the only one that knows how Kabam will handle the situation. All I am asking for is them to tell me and the rest of the community if alliance leadership will have a way to determine who in the alliance caused them to get an AW rating deduction, so they can remedy the problem before too much damage is done to the alliances season. Seems pretty fair an ask to me.
For future violations of account sharing/piloting, I would like to see another warning message sent directly to the accounts found in violation that caused the punishment to an alliance. This message could be vague and just say “You have been found in violation of our TOS and in turn your alliance’s war rating has been reduced.” This allows confidentially to remain with the player. Should they choose to divulge that information to their alliance is solely their discretion (I hope that they would). But it allows more insight into why an alliance is being punished and I think would solve the many issues in this thread.
It still wont help leadership fix the problem unless the cheater posted the message they received saying they violated the TOS.
I'm not saying I know the solution, but it has to be something better than "your alliance cheated" and "good luck to you finding out who is responsible." these quotes are sarcastic quotes and not an actual quote from anyone lol.
Yeah but it’s a compromise on both sides. Kabam has never divulged account names to others for any reason before and I don’t think they will start now.
I'm not saying they should give names. They should do something different than nothing though.
EDIT: they are doing temp bans, but this should happen along side something else like them being auto removed from the alliance.
as soon as you cheat or pilot or whatever you are breaking TOS and therefore you should not be protected by the privacy acts here.
its totally unfair that innocent alliances get punished and not know who is cheating and breaking TOS policies.
ANYONE that defends cheaters or the act of letting the public know who is a cheater is possibly one then.
why else would anyone NOT want to expose cheaters unless, and i say this as an opinion, they are a cheater themself
However, I see no reason why they can’t (as has already been suggested in this thread) simply remove the cheater from the alliance.
Why not just make an across the board policy that while your account is banned you aren’t allowed to be in an alliance?
Can anyone give any reason why this wouldn’t work?
Mods, I’m not going to tag you..but this is an important thread and really deserves an answer. I know you guys are reading.
Nailed it. ABA (applied behavior analysis) theory lists factors that contribute to how effective consequences will be with removing undesirable behaviors. One of these factors is that the person receiving the consequences must be able to associate their consequences with specific behaviors.
In MCOC context, removing war rating points from alliances that hack/mod or pilot AWs will only work in theory if those alliances know which players are cheatzing. If an alliance does not know which of their members is cheating, removing war points without informing alliance leaders or officers which member is responsible for their penalty is not an efficient consequence. Think of a parent who takes away their kid’s driving privileges because they found out their kid broke curfew. If the parent doesn’t tell their kid why they’re losing their driving privileges, chances are their kid will continue to break curfew.
And before forum members start disagreeing with this post, ABA theory is backed by decades of peer-reviewed research. Just one of many reasons why it’s considered one of if not the most reputable paradigm of psychology.
“A person or people have been found to be violating tos would you like to remove them from the alliance yes/no
That way they don’t actually have to disclose the name(s) of said cheaters and the alliance can get rid of the person causing the problems .
Well yes , it would obvious but surely that would be better than leaders/ officers having to investigate who it could be ,causing tension and distrust within the alliance , eventually finding out who it was , kicking them and everyone knowing who had cheated anyway .
And what if they don’t get removed? Since kabam don’t disclose how they deal with people, how do you know that someone will be removed. They may just suffer the war rating penalty and nothing happens. Or there could be a 1 day ban, there are occasions where I don’t log onto the game over one day. Nothing out of the ordinary there.
Attitudes like this are exactly why I support privacy. I do not condone cheating. I do not condone Smear Campaigns either.
Are you telling me fear of AI isn't valid?
Once a crime has been committed, even Nazis are entitled to a defense.
I might be on board with this, except there would need to be language in the TOS (and a reminder in the message) that would make it a violation for a leader to share this type of information, in an attempt to reduce the probability of blacklisting.
While we understand the request that you are all making here, it is simply not possible for us to do. Ignoring the fact that this is a violation of our privacy policy, it is also just not physically possible for us. Additionally, it is your responsibility as an Alliance Leader or Office to ensure that you're comfortable with the Summoners that you let in to your Alliance.
This is definitely easier said than done, but communication goes a long way. Additionally, we also have our regular banning policy in place for Summoners that do cheat in these game modes. That means that they can still receive bans for cheating and breaking our Terms of Service as well. This is a good reminder to everybody. Don't cheat.