Civil Warrior Bleed/Poison resist does not appear to be working...

Jay_Ibero

I recently duped 4* CW through the arena and I noticed his bleed/poison resist does not appear to be working. I have Double Edge and Liquid Courage, and the damage I was taking stayed the same after the initial 2 stacks of armor ended. Anyone else noticing this? I haven't been able to test it much against poison/bleed from other enemies yet though.

BrotherVo

The same thing happened to me, with liquid corage the damage was the same with or without armor active.

OnaKushDiet

Brought this up first day it was released..even if Starting with 2 armour ups it doesnt effect suicides..some bs but guess its "intended"

Eb0ny-O-M4w

It doesn't work that way.
He only reduces damage if he gets the bleed/poison debuff after he triggers the armor up. It doesn't work with suicides because they are activated at the same time (I guess it shouldn't work since the beginning).

Jay_Ibero

eXtripa69 wrote: »

It doesn't work that way.
He only reduces damage if he gets the bleed/poison debuff after he triggers the armor up. It doesn't work with suicides because they are activated at the same time (I guess it shouldn't work since the beginning).

Can you tell me how you come to that conclusion? Here is the exact text of the ability:

Civil Warrior's Mk. II suit grants him 15% Poison and Bleed damage resistance for each stack of Armor Up active.

Nowhere does it say anything about this resist only applying to poison/bleed received after the Armor Ups are active, so currently the ability does not function as described. Either the effect needs to be fixed to match the description (i.e. the resistance % varies with armor up numbers), or the description needs to be updated to reflect how it is intended to work. With the current description, over the course of a long enough fight a player should be able to build up enough armor up stacks to reduce the damage from liquid courage (along with any other bleed/poison) to very low levels, allowing them to passively regen somewhat with willpower similar to Karnak with his high base poison resistance.

If the amount of poison/bleed damage is instead fixed at the time received, that drastically reduces the value of this feature. A strategic player should be able to throw down the S1 after getting tagged with a bleed/poison effect to help mitigate the damage...

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Karnak is different. He has a passive ability that works everytime. He doesn't need anything to activate it.
Going for the logic here: If CW gets a bleed/poison debuff, why would "armor up" reduce the damage of something that is already happening inside of his body?
For me, I already knew that this feature would work this way, and I'm sure that many high-tier players knew it too. Is just something that makes sense regarding the way of activation

Jay_Ibero

Again, what it says and what it is doing are 2 different things. There is no conditionality or timing requirement listed in the ability. As it is written, if he has 4 armor up buffs, he should have 60% bleed/poison resist for the duration of the armor ups, regardless of when the bleed/poison are/were received. As far as your "logic", why would armor up reduce bleed and poison damage at all anyway, since the whole point of these effects is they typically ignore armor, so there is no reasonable fluff reason for this ability to begin with so it can at least be coded to operate in a manner consistent with the text.

Eb0ny-O-M4w

Again, thats different.
"Ignore armor" refers to the champion, not to any armor suit that he has.
As I tried to say before, I knew that this was going to work this way since the beginning. It may be because I know a lot of stuff related to the game, but it also makes some kind of sense to me

Jay_Ibero

eXtripa69 wrote: »

Again, thats different.
"Ignore armor" refers to the champion, not to any armor suit that he has.
As I tried to say before, I knew that this was going to work this way since the beginning. It may be because I know a lot of stuff related to the game, but it also makes some kind of sense to me

Point being, the ability does not work the way it is written. The way it is written and the way it is working are different, therefore this is a bug and either the effect or the description need to be changed. Anything else is just an excuse.

ShevaMilan

Is there any mod looking into this? I played with LC and DE and getting reduce damage at the start with his armor up resulting in a net gain regen like karnak is definitely a game changer in aq and aw. I am hesitate to r5 my CW because his ability is not working as intended.

simolaz

Appearently after 7 months the issue is still there. Anyone knows if kabam is going to fix it in any way (rephrasing description or bugfixing), or as someone said, Civil Warrior actual behavior is ok with his abilities description (I don’t agree) and nothing will change?

GbSarkar

simolaz wrote: »

Appearently after 7 months the issue is still there. Anyone knows if kabam is going to fix it in any way (rephrasing description or bugfixing), or as someone said, Civil Warrior actual behavior is ok with his abilities description (I don’t agree) and nothing will change?

Nothing to fix here. That's how champs work. Debuffs (and DoT that may be associated with it) are applied before buffs (and regen that may be associated with it). That's the reason why CW dosen't reduce LC/DE damage, that's the reason why KG doesn't shrug off coldsnap with his fury buff, and that's the reason why you take one tick of DoT debuff damage before you heal up with willpower

simolaz

GbSarkar wrote: »

simolaz wrote: »

Nothing to fix here. That's how champs work. Debuffs (and DoT that may be associated with it) are applied before buffs (and regen that may be associated with it). That's the reason why CW dosen't reduce LC/DE damage, that's the reason why KG doesn't shrug off coldsnap with his fury buff, and that's the reason why you take one tick of DoT debuff damage before you heal up with willpower

I’m sorry, maybe I didn’t make myself clear. I understand your answer and I agree completely about buffs activating after debuffs, but that wasn’t my point...
My question was only about reducing damage, and even if what you say it’s right (I’m still not 100% sure) there is still something that needs to be fixed. In fact, I think that the actual description of Civil Warrior’s abilities needs to be rephrased, because as long as it says that his armor reduces poison and bleeding damage, well that’s not what it does. It reduces bleeding and poison damage related to debuffs activated AFTER THE ARMOR COMES UP. To me, it’s an explanation that needs to be written.

Magrailothos

GbSarkar wrote: »

simolaz wrote: »

Appearently after 7 months the issue is still there. Anyone knows if kabam is going to fix it in any way (rephrasing description or bugfixing), or as someone said, Civil Warrior actual behavior is ok with his abilities description (I don’t agree) and nothing will change?

Nothing to fix here. That's how champs work. Debuffs (and DoT that may be associated with it) are applied before buffs (and regen that may be associated with it). That's the reason why CW dosen't reduce LC/DE damage, that's the reason why KG doesn't shrug off coldsnap with his fury buff, and that's the reason why you take one tick of DoT debuff damage before you heal up with willpower

Interesting. Probably an accurate observation, but would be nice to get clarification from a mod. Is there a difference between internal debuffs (suicide Masteries) and those imposed from outside (coldsnap)?

I recall a bit of advice given (by a mod) during the original 'Iceman/unavoidable massive coldsnap damage in Event quests' fiasco being that we should use Civil Warrior, as his starting Armour up buffs generate a chance for Coldsnap to be averted.