The Future of the Mystics

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I saw this image today on MCOC trucos, and I'm sure I'm not the only to notice the extreme lack of mystic champs that has developed. The last two to be released were Morningstar and Mephisto which was almost a year ago and since then we've seen every other class get a significant number of good additions to their group so I have to ask, who will be the next mystic?

I really thought Heimdall was gonna be one since his bifrost powers are more magical, but I feel in general it's hard to define someone as mystic as the character does have to have some sort of magic element into their abilities, which I find difficult to think of anyone in the Marvel Universe who would fit that category. Could it be that Kabam as well is struggling to find a mystic champ that they could add? We know that in october the two new venom champs are most likely gonna be cosmic, so you it's kind of hard to tell when it's coming.

Now there's no question that the mystic class is still a very strong class even with no additions for a very long time, but with the changes in MD and 9 months worth of really strong characters being released from other classes, without another mystic champ being released there is potential that the mystic class will be losing it's significance. We saw this in the science class near the end of 2017, but that has no longer been a problem.

So who do you guys think can be classified as a mystic champ from the Marvel Universe? Cause I think it's been long enough and a new mystic has to come by the end of the year in my opinion.
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Comments

  • ESFESF Posts: 657
    I honestly think that is the biggest problem -- I don't think it's anything nefarious or a conspiracy against Mystic characters. I just don't think, tbh, there are a ton more to actually do that are actually worth doing.

    You could maybe do, say...Black Knight as a Mystic. He would probably be cool, but really, anymore, who even thinks about Black Knight as much as someone who really has a deep appreciation of Marvel history?

    I guess you could maybe do an Enchantress, or a Malekith...I mean, honestly. When you start digging that deep, to me, you're far better off doing more popular characters in other classes
  • Aaaaaaand, MD being nerfed, I don’t know, but Kabam is sort of digging themselves a hole here.
  • ESFESF Posts: 657
    I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

    There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

    That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?
  • ESFESF Posts: 657
    To be honest, I'm curious about who we're even gonna get for the rest of the year -- seriously.

    We're about to need to start dipping into the Thunderbolts and New Mutants, right? Stuff like that?

    I mean, I'm not worried about the future of the game -- far from it. It's just that if the FF/Doctor Doom and some of those properties aren't available, we are definitely going to be settling into more niche characters than mainstream.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that -- every characters is somebody's favorite -- but yeah. We are past the A-Listers now, from the comics lore, if the FF/Doctor Doom line aren't available
  • V1PER1987V1PER1987 Posts: 1,336
    ESF wrote: »
    I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

    There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

    That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?

    People have put up lots of points for obscure characters. I had no clue who Doctor Voodoo was when I put up 19.3M for him upon release but ultimately it’s the abilities that draw people in I think. I mean Domino isn’t really a mainstream character either but she’s one of the most popular champs in the game right now.
  • John757John757 Posts: 270
    I was confused when I saw doctor voodoo because I knew him as Brother voodoo
  • John757 wrote: »
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    Mysterio

    Lol, Mysterio is definitely not a mystic. He's a stuntman illusionist.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 4,962
    ESF wrote: »
    I honestly think that is the biggest problem -- I don't think it's anything nefarious or a conspiracy against Mystic characters. I just don't think, tbh, there are a ton more to actually do that are actually worth doing.

    You could maybe do, say...Black Knight as a Mystic. He would probably be cool, but really, anymore, who even thinks about Black Knight as much as someone who really has a deep appreciation of Marvel history?

    I guess you could maybe do an Enchantress, or a Malekith...I mean, honestly. When you start digging that deep, to me, you're far better off doing more popular characters in other classes

    Hmm. If I was going to add mystic champs from the Marvel Universe, who would that be? I think Nightmare would be high on the list, seeing as how he is a front-runner to be the villain in the next Dr. Strange movie. Ebony Maw would also be on the list, having appeared in Infinity War.

    It does start to get deeper into the source for me after that. Belasco might be a candidate as he's related to Magik but I'm not sure what you'd do with him.
  • ESFESF Posts: 657
    edited September 14
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    ESF wrote: »
    I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

    There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

    That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?

    People have put up lots of points for obscure characters. I had no clue who Doctor Voodoo was when I put up 19.3M for him upon release but ultimately it’s the abilities that draw people in I think. I mean Domino isn’t really a mainstream character either but she’s one of the most popular champs in the game right now.

    Agreed -- you are totally correct, and I have little-to-no doubt that is how the game will look and feel in the future: Obscure characters with...interesting...interactions that will make people grind.

    As an adult who understands business and capitalism, I get it. That's absolutely the way to go.

    As someone who does care about the source material and the lore of the characters, I hate it.

    All of us vets understand "power creep." I know you do, others do.

    But yeah. It drives me a little nuts to see Domino far more useful than, say...Magneto. Drives me absolutely nuts.

    But we've all seen it before, and I'm sure it will continue
  • John757John757 Posts: 270
    edited September 14
    And juggernaut makes sense as a mystic? 😑 also look up Francis Klum. That would be the mysterio they can use. I know my Spider-Man villains
  • John757John757 Posts: 270
    And Quentin Beck used hypnotism as well and that’s more mystic than Juggs
  • John757John757 Posts: 270
    DRTO wrote: »
    John757 wrote: »
    And juggernaut makes sense as a mystic? 😑 also look up Francis Klum. That would be the mysterio they can use. I know my Spider-Man villains

    Well actually, Juggs got his powers from like finding some magical gem so it makes sense

    Yeah I always forget that part, but when you use him, he doesn’t seem mystical at all. At least with mysterio he would be teleporting and doing Magic Tricks haha
  • John757John757 Posts: 270
    And you have to admit that picture of him is a badass interpretation
  • My_SuperiorMy_Superior Posts: 1,083
    If it wasn’t obvious in my first comment, I don’t think the lack of Mystic champions is a problem. If Kabam goes out of their way to make sure each class has an equal number of Champions, they’ll be handicapping their creative choices and as a result the game’s potential. That said there are a bunch of characters who could have arguably been Mystic; most the Asgardians, Blade, Corvus Glaive, Moon Knight, Nightcrawler, and even Phoenix. Maybe now that Mystic Dispersion has been normalized more champs will be made Mystic when they otherwise wouldn’t.
    I’d personally like to see Marvel’s Hercules.

  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 4,962
    ESF wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    ESF wrote: »
    I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

    There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

    That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?

    People have put up lots of points for obscure characters. I had no clue who Doctor Voodoo was when I put up 19.3M for him upon release but ultimately it’s the abilities that draw people in I think. I mean Domino isn’t really a mainstream character either but she’s one of the most popular champs in the game right now.

    Agreed -- you are totally correct, and I have little-to-no doubt that is how the game will look and feel in the future: Obscure characters with...interesting...interactions that will make people grind.

    As an adult who understands business and capitalism, I get it. That's absolutely the way to go.

    As someone who does care about the source material and the lore of the characters, I hate it.

    All of us vets understand "power creep." I know you do, others do.

    But yeah. It drives me a little nuts to see Domino far more useful than, say...Magneto. Drives me absolutely nuts.

    But we've all seen it before, and I'm sure it will continue

    To be fair, the game is doing nothing different from what most comic book writers have done over the years. Most comic book writers have been perfectly happy hand-waving established continuity if it got in the way of their story. At least MCOC does so within an entire separate reality. They aren't rewriting established canon.

    When players said they felt Sentry was not living up to his stated power level as "a million exploding suns" I pointed out that "a million exploding suns" is a completely meaningless phrase. And furthermore, the writers have portrayed Sentry has having anything from infinite strength to trivial strength, which means ignoring the meaningless power description, Sentry has whatever power level the writers want him to have, under the hand-wave that he is "restrained."

    I also think the MCU gets more slack for doing this than the games do as well. Sure, Captain America and the Hulk are prominent comic book characters, but it is hard to argue that Black Widow, Loki, and Vision were anything but relatively minor characters prior to showing up in the movies. And Star Lord?

    I've long seen a trend where comic book canon is often hung around video games, but other media tends to get a larger pass, including the comic book medium itself. It doesn't seem to be a fair criticism to me.
  • Doctor Doom or Captain Britain incoming
  • ESFESF Posts: 657
    DNA3000 wrote: »
    ESF wrote: »
    V1PER1987 wrote: »
    ESF wrote: »
    I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

    There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

    That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?

    People have put up lots of points for obscure characters. I had no clue who Doctor Voodoo was when I put up 19.3M for him upon release but ultimately it’s the abilities that draw people in I think. I mean Domino isn’t really a mainstream character either but she’s one of the most popular champs in the game right now.

    Agreed -- you are totally correct, and I have little-to-no doubt that is how the game will look and feel in the future: Obscure characters with...interesting...interactions that will make people grind.

    As an adult who understands business and capitalism, I get it. That's absolutely the way to go.

    As someone who does care about the source material and the lore of the characters, I hate it.

    All of us vets understand "power creep." I know you do, others do.

    But yeah. It drives me a little nuts to see Domino far more useful than, say...Magneto. Drives me absolutely nuts.

    But we've all seen it before, and I'm sure it will continue

    To be fair, the game is doing nothing different from what most comic book writers have done over the years. Most comic book writers have been perfectly happy hand-waving established continuity if it got in the way of their story. At least MCOC does so within an entire separate reality. They aren't rewriting established canon.

    When players said they felt Sentry was not living up to his stated power level as "a million exploding suns" I pointed out that "a million exploding suns" is a completely meaningless phrase. And furthermore, the writers have portrayed Sentry has having anything from infinite strength to trivial strength, which means ignoring the meaningless power description, Sentry has whatever power level the writers want him to have, under the hand-wave that he is "restrained."

    I also think the MCU gets more slack for doing this than the games do as well. Sure, Captain America and the Hulk are prominent comic book characters, but it is hard to argue that Black Widow, Loki, and Vision were anything but relatively minor characters prior to showing up in the movies. And Star Lord?

    I've long seen a trend where comic book canon is often hung around video games, but other media tends to get a larger pass, including the comic book medium itself. It doesn't seem to be a fair criticism to me.

    True -- again, I do get it. I don't dispute what you are saying.

    I've just always felt, even when I saw a wee lad, that what you just described is a horrible, horrible cheat. It's not fair to the reader/game player overall.

    Using your Sentry example -- believe me, I was one of the people who desperately wanted the character in the game -- it's extremely frustrating when creators don't establish a clear baseline for characters. I've always felt the best designed characters, the ones who make the most sense with regard to consistency, are ones where writers have explicitly stated "this is what the character can do. This is what the character cannot do."

    I have read over the years how some find that restricting. I disagree completely, because to me, there have to be rules. An order to things. A lack of order isn't freeing. It's actually more restrictive overall, because then there are no "logical" boundaries for a reader to understand and relate to.

    For example, one of my favorites was an old-school Legion of Super-Heroes story where Karate Kid put Superboy into some exotic restraining hold, for the purposes of the story. But instead of serving to further the story, it actually pulled some -- don't know how many -- people OUT of the story when they said, "HEY! He can't do that! He doesn't even have super-strength!"

    Does it matter? No, not really. It doesn't -- as you said, and we all know, it happens all the time.

    But even now. With Emma Frost's telepathy working on Robots.

    Yeah, you can do that. You can say that in the Battlerealm/Kabamverse, that works.

    But it's a cheat. It is. It doesn't make any sense. Does it have to make sense? No. Nothing HAS to make sense.

    But it's a cheat when some things don't.
  • ESFESF Posts: 657
    Like, for example: Does Superman need to breathe or not?

    That has to be established as a rule -- one way or the other. Either the dude can survive in space unaided, or he can't. Either the guy doesn't need to breathe underwater, or he does.

    What you can't have -- to me -- are stories where sometimes Superman needs oxygen, and sometimes he doesn't, and then in a game, he gets put down by knockout gas while in that same game, he flies to the sun and back. Not saying that's happened, just using that as an example.
  • My_SuperiorMy_Superior Posts: 1,083
    I heard tale that an old Shaman spotted a Sasquatch fighting a Yeti in the Contest. Seems like A. Flight of fancy if you ask me.
  • DNA3000DNA3000 Posts: 4,962
    ESF wrote: »
    I've just always felt, even when I saw a wee lad, that what you just described is a horrible, horrible cheat. It's not fair to the reader/game player overall.

    Believe me, there is no bigger stickler for continuity than I am. It is just that if you're going to be a fan of comic books, and anything related to the genre, I believe it is something you have to let slide. At best, comic books are "locally consistent" but not globally consistent. Incredibly (to me) the DC Universe explicitly includes this phenomenon as an actual property of the universe: for those unfamiliar, it is called Hypertime. It is fundamentally just another way of saying our writers don't make mistakes, the universe does. Its cute, but I've never really bought into it completely.

    I don't believe it is wrong to hold writers accountable to continuity. In fact, it is an argument I've had with game writers in the past. I only think if we're going to hold MCOC accountable to be consistent with the comic books, we need to hold the comic books to the same standard. And on that standard, they tend to fail horribly.

    If it was up to me, robots would be immune to Emma's control reversal. They would also be immune to the beneficial effects of Willpower. And anyone who claimed Ghost Rider should be immune to fire because he is on fire would get a ban from the forums until they submitted a report on the properties of Ghost Rider's mystical flames in the comics, with source references. Because I am not a benevolent canon god.
  • DNA3000 wrote: »
    ESF wrote: »
    I've just always felt, even when I saw a wee lad, that what you just described is a horrible, horrible cheat. It's not fair to the reader/game player overall.

    Believe me, there is no bigger stickler for continuity than I am. It is just that if you're going to be a fan of comic books, and anything related to the genre, I believe it is something you have to let slide. At best, comic books are "locally consistent" but not globally consistent. Incredibly (to me) the DC Universe explicitly includes this phenomenon as an actual property of the universe: for those unfamiliar, it is called Hypertime. It is fundamentally just another way of saying our writers don't make mistakes, the universe does. Its cute, but I've never really bought into it completely.

    I don't believe it is wrong to hold writers accountable to continuity. In fact, it is an argument I've had with game writers in the past. I only think if we're going to hold MCOC accountable to be consistent with the comic books, we need to hold the comic books to the same standard. And on that standard, they tend to fail horribly.

    If it was up to me, robots would be immune to Emma's control reversal. They would also be immune to the beneficial effects of Willpower. And anyone who claimed Ghost Rider should be immune to fire because he is on fire would get a ban from the forums until they submitted a report on the properties of Ghost Rider's mystical flames in the comics, with source references. Because I am not a benevolent canon god.

    If these were the days of forum signatures I would strongly recommend "Because I am not a benevolent canon god" be yours until the end of days.

    On topic - outside of the Ghost Rider argument, I'd like to see some more "obvious" ones also show up. Storm and Thor (all three of them) control lightning to some degree - why aren't they immune to shock? Why is an element they control effortlessly able to injure them? (I suppose the argument could be made if it is weaponized against them and they are HIT, then it could hurt them, but thinking of Electro's ability is one that shouldn't be able to hurt them.)
  • Charles Xavier new mystic OP champ
  • Charles Xavier new mystic OP champ

    Chuck is a mutant, not a mystic.
  • Repto23Repto23 Posts: 137
    I just want Dr Doom!
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