The Future of the Mystics

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I honestly think that is the biggest problem -- I don't think it's anything nefarious or a conspiracy against Mystic characters. I just don't think, tbh, there are a ton more to actually do that are actually worth doing.

You could maybe do, say...Black Knight as a Mystic. He would probably be cool, but really, anymore, who even thinks about Black Knight as much as someone who really has a deep appreciation of Marvel history?

I guess you could maybe do an Enchantress, or a Malekith...I mean, honestly. When you start digging that deep, to me, you're far better off doing more popular characters in other classes

SpiderCools

I rather have them fix mystic champs (like iron fist, UC, jugg or doctor strange) before they release new ones. But even so mhstics have less champs but still the best class

Mitchell35

Aaaaaaand, MD being nerfed, I don’t know, but Kabam is sort of digging themselves a hole here.

The next mystic champ

I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?

To be honest, I'm curious about who we're even gonna get for the rest of the year -- seriously.

We're about to need to start dipping into the Thunderbolts and New Mutants, right? Stuff like that?

I mean, I'm not worried about the future of the game -- far from it. It's just that if the FF/Doctor Doom and some of those properties aren't available, we are definitely going to be settling into more niche characters than mainstream.

Not that there's anything wrong with that -- every characters is somebody's favorite -- but yeah. We are past the A-Listers now, from the comics lore, if the FF/Doctor Doom line aren't available

Mysterio

V1PER1987

ESF wrote: »

I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?

People have put up lots of points for obscure characters. I had no clue who Doctor Voodoo was when I put up 19.3M for him upon release but ultimately it’s the abilities that draw people in I think. I mean Domino isn’t really a mainstream character either but she’s one of the most popular champs in the game right now.

I was confused when I saw doctor voodoo because I knew him as Brother voodoo

spaceoctopus

John757 wrote: »

Mysterio

Lol, Mysterio is definitely not a mystic. He's a stuntman illusionist.

DNA3000

ESF wrote: »

I honestly think that is the biggest problem -- I don't think it's anything nefarious or a conspiracy against Mystic characters. I just don't think, tbh, there are a ton more to actually do that are actually worth doing.

You could maybe do, say...Black Knight as a Mystic. He would probably be cool, but really, anymore, who even thinks about Black Knight as much as someone who really has a deep appreciation of Marvel history?

I guess you could maybe do an Enchantress, or a Malekith...I mean, honestly. When you start digging that deep, to me, you're far better off doing more popular characters in other classes

Hmm. If I was going to add mystic champs from the Marvel Universe, who would that be? I think Nightmare would be high on the list, seeing as how he is a front-runner to be the villain in the next Dr. Strange movie. Ebony Maw would also be on the list, having appeared in Infinity War.

It does start to get deeper into the source for me after that. Belasco might be a candidate as he's related to Magik but I'm not sure what you'd do with him.

V1PER1987 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?

People have put up lots of points for obscure characters. I had no clue who Doctor Voodoo was when I put up 19.3M for him upon release but ultimately it’s the abilities that draw people in I think. I mean Domino isn’t really a mainstream character either but she’s one of the most popular champs in the game right now.

Agreed -- you are totally correct, and I have little-to-no doubt that is how the game will look and feel in the future: Obscure characters with...interesting...interactions that will make people grind.

As an adult who understands business and capitalism, I get it. That's absolutely the way to go.

As someone who does care about the source material and the lore of the characters, I hate it.

All of us vets understand "power creep." I know you do, others do.

But yeah. It drives me a little nuts to see Domino far more useful than, say...Magneto. Drives me absolutely nuts.

But we've all seen it before, and I'm sure it will continue

And juggernaut makes sense as a mystic? 😑 also look up Francis Klum. That would be the mysterio they can use. I know my Spider-Man villains

And Quentin Beck used hypnotism as well and that’s more mystic than Juggs

DRTO

John757 wrote: »

And juggernaut makes sense as a mystic? 😑 also look up Francis Klum. That would be the mysterio they can use. I know my Spider-Man villains

Well actually, Juggs got his powers from like finding some magical gem so it makes sense

DRTO wrote: »

John757 wrote: »

And juggernaut makes sense as a mystic? 😑 also look up Francis Klum. That would be the mysterio they can use. I know my Spider-Man villains

Well actually, Juggs got his powers from like finding some magical gem so it makes sense

Yeah I always forget that part, but when you use him, he doesn’t seem mystical at all. At least with mysterio he would be teleporting and doing Magic Tricks haha

And you have to admit that picture of him is a badass interpretation

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DNA3000

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?

People have put up lots of points for obscure characters. I had no clue who Doctor Voodoo was when I put up 19.3M for him upon release but ultimately it’s the abilities that draw people in I think. I mean Domino isn’t really a mainstream character either but she’s one of the most popular champs in the game right now.

Agreed -- you are totally correct, and I have little-to-no doubt that is how the game will look and feel in the future: Obscure characters with...interesting...interactions that will make people grind.

As an adult who understands business and capitalism, I get it. That's absolutely the way to go.

As someone who does care about the source material and the lore of the characters, I hate it.

All of us vets understand "power creep." I know you do, others do.

But yeah. It drives me a little nuts to see Domino far more useful than, say...Magneto. Drives me absolutely nuts.

But we've all seen it before, and I'm sure it will continue

To be fair, the game is doing nothing different from what most comic book writers have done over the years. Most comic book writers have been perfectly happy hand-waving established continuity if it got in the way of their story. At least MCOC does so within an entire separate reality. They aren't rewriting established canon.

When players said they felt Sentry was not living up to his stated power level as "a million exploding suns" I pointed out that "a million exploding suns" is a completely meaningless phrase. And furthermore, the writers have portrayed Sentry has having anything from infinite strength to trivial strength, which means ignoring the meaningless power description, Sentry has whatever power level the writers want him to have, under the hand-wave that he is "restrained."

I also think the MCU gets more slack for doing this than the games do as well. Sure, Captain America and the Hulk are prominent comic book characters, but it is hard to argue that Black Widow, Loki, and Vision were anything but relatively minor characters prior to showing up in the movies. And Star Lord?

I've long seen a trend where comic book canon is often hung around video games, but other media tends to get a larger pass, including the comic book medium itself. It doesn't seem to be a fair criticism to me.

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DNA3000 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

V1PER1987 wrote: »

ESF wrote: »

I mean, to me, here's how you know that the Mystic class really doesn't have a ton of depth as far as who could come next: Morningstar and Guillotine are, in their own way, two of the more effective Mystic characters and they aren't even Marvel creations.

There's just not a ton of them to really look to and feel good about. I mean, is anybody desperate to see, I don't know, Tigra? Before you'd get someone like maybe, I don't know, Baron Zemo or Mister Sinister or Apocalypse or maybe the Fantastic Four or Doctor Doom, if they ever become available?

That's not an insult to Tigra. It's just that at some point, how much does a character like that really make anybody want to put up millions of points in Arena?

People have put up lots of points for obscure characters. I had no clue who Doctor Voodoo was when I put up 19.3M for him upon release but ultimately it’s the abilities that draw people in I think. I mean Domino isn’t really a mainstream character either but she’s one of the most popular champs in the game right now.

Agreed -- you are totally correct, and I have little-to-no doubt that is how the game will look and feel in the future: Obscure characters with...interesting...interactions that will make people grind.

As an adult who understands business and capitalism, I get it. That's absolutely the way to go.

As someone who does care about the source material and the lore of the characters, I hate it.

All of us vets understand "power creep." I know you do, others do.

But yeah. It drives me a little nuts to see Domino far more useful than, say...Magneto. Drives me absolutely nuts.

But we've all seen it before, and I'm sure it will continue

To be fair, the game is doing nothing different from what most comic book writers have done over the years. Most comic book writers have been perfectly happy hand-waving established continuity if it got in the way of their story. At least MCOC does so within an entire separate reality. They aren't rewriting established canon.

When players said they felt Sentry was not living up to his stated power level as "a million exploding suns" I pointed out that "a million exploding suns" is a completely meaningless phrase. And furthermore, the writers have portrayed Sentry has having anything from infinite strength to trivial strength, which means ignoring the meaningless power description, Sentry has whatever power level the writers want him to have, under the hand-wave that he is "restrained."

I also think the MCU gets more slack for doing this than the games do as well. Sure, Captain America and the Hulk are prominent comic book characters, but it is hard to argue that Black Widow, Loki, and Vision were anything but relatively minor characters prior to showing up in the movies. And Star Lord?

I've long seen a trend where comic book canon is often hung around video games, but other media tends to get a larger pass, including the comic book medium itself. It doesn't seem to be a fair criticism to me.

True -- again, I do get it. I don't dispute what you are saying.

I've just always felt, even when I saw a wee lad, that what you just described is a horrible, horrible cheat. It's not fair to the reader/game player overall.

Using your Sentry example -- believe me, I was one of the people who desperately wanted the character in the game -- it's extremely frustrating when creators don't establish a clear baseline for characters. I've always felt the best designed characters, the ones who make the most sense with regard to consistency, are ones where writers have explicitly stated "this is what the character can do. This is what the character cannot do."

I have read over the years how some find that restricting. I disagree completely, because to me, there have to be rules. An order to things. A lack of order isn't freeing. It's actually more restrictive overall, because then there are no "logical" boundaries for a reader to understand and relate to.

For example, one of my favorites was an old-school Legion of Super-Heroes story where Karate Kid put Superboy into some exotic restraining hold, for the purposes of the story. But instead of serving to further the story, it actually pulled some -- don't know how many -- people OUT of the story when they said, "HEY! He can't do that! He doesn't even have super-strength!"

Does it matter? No, not really. It doesn't -- as you said, and we all know, it happens all the time.

But even now. With Emma Frost's telepathy working on Robots.

Yeah, you can do that. You can say that in the Battlerealm/Kabamverse, that works.

But it's a cheat. It is. It doesn't make any sense. Does it have to make sense? No. Nothing HAS to make sense.

But it's a cheat when some things don't.

Like, for example: Does Superman need to breathe or not?

That has to be established as a rule -- one way or the other. Either the dude can survive in space unaided, or he can't. Either the guy doesn't need to breathe underwater, or he does.

What you can't have -- to me -- are stories where sometimes Superman needs oxygen, and sometimes he doesn't, and then in a game, he gets put down by knockout gas while in that same game, he flies to the sun and back. Not saying that's happened, just using that as an example.