Honest discussion

Okay, I’d like a honest discussion about “active” buffs and “passive” buffs.

Imo when I read a champions abilities if it doesn’t say “passive” then I assume it’s an “active”. I explored act 6.1 months ago. While doing so I needed a “active” armor up buff champion for the 6.1.6 havok. I upgraded and used Vulture (rank 3). While I’m not worried about a rank 3 champ or the resources used on them I’d prefer to ignore that specific option as it was the best option for me.

Since then I have notice a few “irregularities” in the abilities menu. For infinity war iron it specifies “passive armor”, for vulture it says simply “armor up”. I’m paraphrasing of course. When I looked at Rocket Racoon’s abilities it says “armor up” (on the shell armor). So I figured I’d test him out vs a havok. While his abilities state nothing about “passive” armor ups. His “armor ups” did show as a passive. His testing didn’t last long.

I’d like a definite answer as to why these abilities lack of information. Why can one champ specifically say “passive”, one says “active” and another say nothing.

In a very competitive game, knowledge trumps most content available. Why does our knowledge have to be “experimental” rather than just reading abilities.

Why does there have to be “active” and/or “passive”?

Below are some simple screenshots of the aforementioned abilities.

Under vulture “passive” he gains a “active” armor up. Under rocket raccoon it says “passive” and gains a “passive armor up”.

Comments

Woody15

Vulture gains an Armor Up Buff. Rocket and IMIW gain passive Armor. I always figure if it doesn't specifically say that whatever it is is a buff then it's a passive effect

Jaded

Vulture gains an Armor Up Buff. Rocket and IMIW gain passive Armor. I always figure if it doesn't specifically say that whatever it is is a buff then it's a passive effect

Which is basically what I was doing as well. Except the wording is exactly the same for rocket and vulture but rocket’s armor up is “passive”.

Treinin

The wording isn't exactly the same, which I think is what Woody was trying to express. Under Vulture it specifically says "Armor Up Buff", but Rocket just says he gains 4 charges of "Armor Up" (Not "Armor Up Buff"). His assumption, (I think incorrect assumption), is that if it doesn't have the word "Buff" after the effect, it is likely a passive.

I started looking through champs with Armor Up and the first few I checked said "Armor Up Buff", but when I got to Howard the Duck it just says he starts with 8 stacks of "Armor Up" as opposed to "Armor Up Buffs". That said I am pretty sure Howard's Armor Up is an "active" / "buff" as it can be converted to poison by Dr Voodoo....

So yeah, this argument doesn't hold up.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Treinin

@UmbertoDelRio - Is Howard's Armor Up a passive? His Armor Up does not say "Armor Up Buff", Just "Armor Up". By your logic "or they simply lack the word "buff", which directly means their effect is passive.", you would suggest the lack of the word "Buff" means that his Armor Ups are a passive. And yet, they can be nullified.. which would suggest they are "active effects".

unknown

This content has been removed.

Marri_2

@UmbertoDelRio - Is Howard's Armor Up a passive? His Armor Up does not say "Armor Up Buff", Just "Armor Up". By your logic "or they simply lack the word "buff", which directly means their effect is passive.", you would suggest the lack of the word "Buff" means that his Armor Ups are a passive. And yet, they can be nullified.. which would suggest they are "active effects".

It literally says "active". If active effects = buffs/debuffs, then what would you expect his armor ups to be according to the wording of his description?

You literally need to go out of your way to not understand this lmao.

The "active" here does not apply to the type of armor up. If it had, the adjective would have preceded the noun. In this case "active" means "enabled". So "active vs inactive" instead of "active vs passive"

Jaded

How is it faulty to use the same wording kabam uses to describe buffs in a conversation?

They specifically use words as such “active” “passive” to alternate between two different effects(but same) in the game. So Howard the duck description states “active” after his armor up. Vulture just says “buff” and rocket raccoon just states “armor up” with no “active/passive” wording afterwards. But it is in a “passive” descriptions under his abilities but so is vulture’s but his says “buff” afterwards.

It’s not about how hard it is to differentiate the buffs. It’s easy to visually see them when playing the champions. The problem, well two problems technically. Why have two different ways to describe buffs (or debuffs). And why do we the players have to explain these to each other without specific instructions from the game developers?

unknown

This content has been removed.

Lormif

How is it faulty to use the same wording kabam uses to describe buffs in a conversation?

They specifically use words as such “active” “passive” to alternate between two different effects(but same) in the game. So Howard the duck description states “active” after his armor up. Vulture just says “buff” and rocket raccoon just states “armor up” with no “active/passive” wording afterwards. But it is in a “passive” descriptions under his abilities but so is vulture’s but his says “buff” afterwards.

It’s not about how hard it is to differentiate the buffs. It’s easy to visually see them when playing the champions. The problem, well two problems technically. Why have two different ways to describe buffs (or debuffs). And why do we the players have to explain these to each other without specific instructions from the game developers?

Because you are not. Words have multiple meanings based on where in the contest, or even where in a sentence it is used. Shoot some words can be nouns, verbs, or adjectives based on where it is used. Active buff and buff active generally have different meanings because of how it is worded. The problem is not developers, the problem is the English language.

unknown

This content has been removed.

World Eater

It gets confusing, for sure. You can also use the pause menu in game to see if an ability is a buff or passive.

World Eater

It is odd; both Howard the Duck and Rocket have a “passive” where they both gain “armor up”, and the word buff is not mentioned and yet...

Howard The Ducks armor is a buff
Rockets armor is not a buff

Jaded

Yes you can argue the same for magik’s limbo. Just because we “know” a buff or debuff will be “passive” or “active” doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be stated directly in their ability description. That’s part of the discussion.

@Lormif made a valid point on the English language and how it can leave some descriptions for interpretation.

World Eater

Both Howard and Rocket have an armor up (listed under their passive abilities).

Howard’s description should just say armor up buff, but it doesn’t.

unknown

This content has been removed.

unknown

This content has been removed.

World Eater

Both Howard and Rocket have an armor up (listed under their passive abilities).

Howard’s description should just say armor up buff, but it doesn’t.

"armor up active"

Active effect = buff/debuff

Non active effect = passive effect

What exactly is it you don't understand?

I understand:
1. The abilities and their differences
2. What you've repeated in our conversation
3. And that you're harping on the word active while refusing to understand my (or anyone else's) point.
4. What the OP is trying to highlight.
5. That you've been downright rude

Calling it an "active" instead of a BUFF, which is how it is described in the pause menu, just causes confusion. Howards ability should say "Armor up Buff" or "Armor Buff" instead of "Amor up Active" becuz what he has is a BUFF!

unknown

This content has been removed.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Lormif

It is odd; both Howard the Duck and Rocket have a “passive” where they both gain “armor up”, and the word buff is not mentioned and yet...

Howard The Ducks armor is a buff
Rockets armor is not a buff
Howard's description still uses the term "armor up active", while rocket's description simply says "armor up".

If you guys want to have an ignorance-circle-jerk, then please by all means have fun. But don't disguise this as an actual "honest discussion", if you can't even fully read the stuff you quote as evidence for your side of the argument lmao.

Non of the examples brought up so far is ecen slightly convoluted. There are clear differences.
Dude the only person here being ignorant is you. The problem isn’t the wording on Howard the duck or iwim. It’s rocket’s, it states neither passive or active armor up but it’s a passive.
You clearly need to step away from your phone/computer. Being this aggressive towards people you don’t know isn’t healthy.
It doesn't state that it's active in any way shape or form, so what is left? Come on, mate.

Magiks limbo also isn't directly described as a passive effect. It simply isn't described as either "active" or "buff". Would you argue the same way there?

Any active effect is either a buff or a debuff. If it isn't described as either an active effect or a buff/debuff, then it is a passive effect.

You simply don't want to understand that at this point, which makes you wilfully ignorant.

probelm is "He starts with an armor up active" described the wearer of the armor, not the armor up itself. There is no way to argue on the English language that it means ti is a buff versus passive, they need to be clearer there.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Marri_2

@UmbertoDelRio - Is Howard's Armor Up a passive? His Armor Up does not say "Armor Up Buff", Just "Armor Up". By your logic "or they simply lack the word "buff", which directly means their effect is passive.", you would suggest the lack of the word "Buff" means that his Armor Ups are a passive. And yet, they can be nullified.. which would suggest they are "active effects".

It literally says "active". If active effects = buffs/debuffs, then what would you expect his armor ups to be according to the wording of his description?

You literally need to go out of your way to not understand this lmao.
The "active" here does not apply to the type of armor up. If it had, the adjective would have preceded the noun. In this case "active" means "enabled".
@UmbertoDelRio - Is Howard's Armor Up a passive? His Armor Up does not say "Armor Up Buff", Just "Armor Up". By your logic "or they simply lack the word "buff", which directly means their effect is passive.", you would suggest the lack of the word "Buff" means that his Armor Ups are a passive. And yet, they can be nullified.. which would suggest they are "active effects".

It literally says "active". If active effects = buffs/debuffs, then what would you expect his armor ups to be according to the wording of his description?

You literally need to go out of your way to not understand this lmao.
The "active" here does not apply to the type of armor up. If it had, the adjective would have preceded the noun. In this case "active" means "enabled". So "active vs inactive" instead of "active vs passive"
What? There's literally the term "armor up passive" or "fury passive" or "cruelty passive" in this game lmao.

So, no. In terms of the general terminology of this game you're incorrect. Nice try, though.

Cruelty/fury passive cannot be interpreted differently, because 'passive' in this phrase is a noun 'a cruelty passive, multiple fury passives'. In the HtD sentence it's an adjective referring to the status of the armor ups. I have never seen the word 'active' used as a noun in any of the champ descriptions anywhere. Oh right, the noun we use for that is just "buff". A lot of the 'active vs passive' comes from the forums, to overclarify the difference between a buff and a passive. Terminology ingame is consistent in that sense: buff or passive.

So you are wrong. Grammatically speaking. Lexically speaking.

But I don't know everything. If you find screenshots where 'active' is unambiguously used as a synonym for 'buff', feel free to prove me wrong.

Marri_2

Both Howard and Rocket have an armor up (listed under their passive abilities).

Howard’s description should just say armor up buff, but it doesn’t.

"armor up active"

Active effect = buff/debuff

Non active effect = passive effect

What exactly is it you don't understand?

You don't have understand how the sentence reads. You don't understand that 'active' is not a noun here but an adjective and can therefore not refer to the type of armor up, but rather to the state of it because of its position in the sentence. The game terminology for what forum users started calling active effects is "buff" and the other variant of a beneficial effect is 'passive' used as a noun ingame.

KattohS

How is it faulty to use the same wording kabam uses to describe buffs in a conversation?

They specifically use words as such “active” “passive” to alternate between two different effects(but same) in the game. So Howard the duck description states “active” after his armor up. Vulture just says “buff” and rocket raccoon just states “armor up” with no “active/passive” wording afterwards. But it is in a “passive” descriptions under his abilities but so is vulture’s but his says “buff” afterwards.

It’s not about how hard it is to differentiate the buffs. It’s easy to visually see them when playing the champions. The problem, well two problems technically. Why have two different ways to describe buffs (or debuffs). And why do we the players have to explain these to each other without specific instructions from the game developers?

Don’t bust your brain mehnnn. It works how kabam wants it to work.