15.0 Alliance Wars Update Discussion Thread

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

Comments

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Ready61

Most of you guys making heavy complaints don't spend a dime on this game. If you gonna complain about something complain about the rewards. Keep complaining and all the spenders leave and there won't be no game to play. It's not all about spending on the game either. Cause spenders are limited to just 15 items. So make them count. It's the BEST game play they came up with IMO. Cause people who pilot accounts was winning the wars. Where is the fun at in that?

D_EYE

Will there be any change for defenders on suicide masteries? Since the 13.0 update will power is tied to base health and poison/bleed to boosted node health, meaning you will die of poison in 60 seconds. An unfair outcome for people who paid for these masteries - most defenders being unsuable except robots/poison immune! Any changes to this? Please let me know!!?

DNA3000

Hulksmasshh wrote: »

Lol a lot of people don't understand what @Kabam Miike means by players not attacking with healthy champs. It happens all the time in top 20 of AW and I think that is the data he is referring to. In fact we instruct our alliance to not attack miniboss and bosses if you don't have the right champ. All miniboss and boss can be solo'd with the right champ. It's how you do 100% clear on all battlegroups with <50 death total. Every death counts and is what determines the winner of the war. Either team can 100% clear easily, but counting deaths is what determines if a team should make the push or not.

I'm fairly sure that is not the scenario Kabam Miike is describing. He didn't refer generally to people not attacking for strategic purposes like you mention, he explicitly mentioned the case of someone dying first and then being discouraged from attacking the same node again.

In fact the absolute highest echelon of any MMO is usually played so different from the entire rest of the game that most MMOs don't make any changes to address what they are doing except to prevent them from breaking the game at the top. They generally don't reengineer gameplay to accommodate their problems.

BigDog34

So with the class being shown now, it makes the Class Detect useless... Do we get a roll back on the cores we have used to unlock them?

vikky89

Ready61 wrote: »

A lot of you guys complaining about defenders kills. It's not the end of the world. For those reviving time and time again will be hurt with item usage. You can only use 15 items. Even the biggest health portions and revives can't save you from some champs placed on nodes. If placed correctly. I think for people that just spend will be limited as well because if item usage. Some of the paths have crazy nodes already in AW. If you put enough strong defenders on that path trust me you can run out of items

What are you talking about. Yeah its not EOW, but its end of skill in AW. Now you can just use up items with high lvl revives/heals to take down boss nodes without being penalized for dying. Then whats the point of war when skill is not rewarded anymore. By eliminating defense kills only alliances that can spend more will win. We won many wars just coz opponents kept reviving n gave us more kills. Spenders will always spend no matter what, but before everyone had a chance of winning by virtue of their skill rather than their wallet. And what crazy nodes are you talking about that you cant take down by using up high lvl items.

BigDog34

Also with the Unique Champ system... We all rank up our Hyperions/Magiks/Dorms/Nightcrawlers for defense and now we won't get extra points for not being unique... Sounds like we need some rank down tickets again so we can rework our defense!! Can't punish people for ranking up the OP defenders, like we all have done!

fabi0200

i agree we need those defenders kills points it is more interesting ......As for the 5 mini i think it is too much ...look like you want us to spend more again.....Again everything for those big alliances and big spenders.... i am loosing my team mate as we speak bcos they cannot fallow with the demand.....more and more loosing good fighters.......at the long run we will all goes somewhere else i guess.......thats a pity bcos we all love this game.......

vikky89

Ready61 wrote: »

Most of you guys making heavy complaints don't spend a dime on this game. If you gonna complain about something complain about the rewards. Keep complaining and all the spenders leave and there won't be no game to play. It's not all about spending on the game either. Cause spenders are limited to just 15 items. So make them count. It's the BEST game play they came up with IMO. Cause people who pilot accounts was winning the wars. Where is the fun at in that?

I think you got it wrong about what everyone is complaining about. I dont think anyone has issues about ppl spending. As you said before it was not all about spending, ppl with skill had a chance. Now kabam took that away by eliminating pts for defense kills. And pleased stop with 15 items cap. someone using 2 lvl3 single heals is not equal to other using 2 lvl4 team heals, even tho both have same item usage count.War was more balanced before because skill is rewarded. Not anymore

DD2

It's turned into Marvel Auction of Champions, where the highest bidders claim the prize. They ruined the integrity of AW by making it pay-2-win. It's supposed to be about skill, not wallet size. Can you guys for once think about the long term success of the game?

A_Noob_Is1

you just made the whales blush with joy by removing points for defensive kills

Hulksmasshh

DNA3000 wrote: »

Hulksmasshh wrote: »

Lol a lot of people don't understand what @Kabam Miike means by players not attacking with healthy champs. It happens all the time in top 20 of AW and I think that is the data he is referring to. In fact we instruct our alliance to not attack miniboss and bosses if you don't have the right champ. All miniboss and boss can be solo'd with the right champ. It's how you do 100% clear on all battlegroups with <50 death total. Every death counts and is what determines the winner of the war. Either team can 100% clear easily, but counting deaths is what determines if a team should make the push or not.

I'm fairly sure that is not the scenario Kabam Miike is describing. He didn't refer generally to people not attacking for strategic purposes like you mention, he explicitly mentioned the case of someone dying first and then being discouraged from attacking the same node again.

In fact the absolute highest echelon of any MMO is usually played so different from the entire rest of the game that most MMOs don't make any changes to address what they are doing except to prevent them from breaking the game at the top. They generally don't reengineer gameplay to accommodate their problems.

The strategic value of not attacking to your death stems from being discouraged of hurting your alliance by continuing to attack. Maybe that hesitation happens in lower tier wars too, but a lot of comments were saying that situation never happens to them and they have no idea who does that. So I was giving them a situation where it happens often. Not saying this change was influenced by problems at the top cause no one was complaining and monitoring your deaths gets expensive as hell, but I disagree that they do monitor closely what the top does. They will cater to their biggest spenders and the biggest spenders usually make it to the top.

Mightylibra

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Mightylibra wrote: »

They have just taken down my poll and other questioning thread without warning nor explanation. That just means one thing. They are scaring, scaring of us telling the truth.

Kabam can twist whatever you want, but they cannot change the fact. The community is not happy with it.

Post 12.0 lesson is still fresh. And Kabam may need to hire a good (better) damage control manager.

There is already a thread for discussion of Alliance Wars, and that is the one you are currently in. Our forum rules clearly state that creating multiple threads to discuss one topic is not allowed. This is why your poll was shut down and deleted.

I find your response quite amusing as this thread is not a poll. If anything, my thread just supported the discussion we currently have in the most constructive way.
But thank for reacting anyway.

SubTypical

A_Noob_Is1 wrote: »

you just made the whales blush with joy by removing points for defensive kills

There's a big assumption being made that this helps "whales". Most also assume that top alliances have that status because they are whales. This isn't correct. There are very highly skilled players at the top that are able to move through AW with minimal item usage. Defender kills as a factor is what usually decides wars at the top.

With these changes, defender kills will just be replaced by this new defender diversity factor, replacing top defenders with someone different just for those points. Champs that aren't ideal for AW defense. So really, it makes AW easier for those at the top.

It's really Kabam's very poor logic that people should be upset about, not complaining (again) about the whales.

LeftTurnAlbqrqe

I have a specific recommendation that I hope does not get lost in all the chatter.
Concerning the class "diversity" issue
While good in concept to diversify classes used in AW, as mentioned in the post, it will not add significantly to the AW score. It will help break ties if I remember correctly from the post.
My suggestion--add class specific buffs on certain nodes plus earn AW points for number of class specific nodes used correctly. Call it a "Defensive Utilization Bonus"
Example: Node 23--standard node buff is 100% Health and attack, however using a Mutant or Skill on this node adds 50% Armor. Node 16--unblockable L1 with 30% enhanced damage, however using a Tech or Science on this node changes it to unblockable L2 with 30% damage. Could also add a "max attempts-death limit" type of class specific buff
This accomplishes at least these 3 things.
1) encourages diversity of champs used across the board in very specific ways addressing the MD/Mystic champ concentration issues
2) using two classes on these types of nodes keeps from predicting what classes are there. Could even do a "wrapper" combination--either Skill or Mutant. Do you risk using a Science against that node? (See next item)
3) maintains the value of the detect masteries (my AW design would be like current--classes aren't revealed except on boss, maybe the mini-bosses)
4) the class specific "max attempts" buff overcomes the "only spenders will win" concerns voiced since the announcement. May actually encourage spending through the purchase of higher cost revives/heals--make sure you heal up high enough to take out the node bc you only have 6 attempts
These are non-specific examples

RehctansBew

So as I have had time to think about it, and in order to spark some conversation here's the solution.

War rewards should be based solely on exploration. Currently a tier 1 win with roughly 80% exploration grants about 650 5* shards. Using this as a base and to keep numbers simply both winner and loser in this tier should get 75 (5*) shards for every 10% explored. This would ensure maximum effort for both teams.

As for the winning team this is where the NEW Alliance war crystal comes in. It could very by tier, but for tier 1 you could have a rare chance at a full t2a or t5b, with increased chances for shards of both and more 5* shards. This would push a lot of top alliances to keep pushing for the win.

These rewards could be valued based on tiers and change from t2a to t1a and t4c and so on.

It's a win for both groups in war along with your player base and it's a win for you as we will use units to keep pushing for more shards.

This is most constructive statement I have regarding the new AW.

LeftTurnAlbqrqe

Damn, a mistake. Meant use a skill or Mystic class specific in my"Do I use science" example

Hulk_77

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Mightylibra wrote: »

They have just taken down my poll and other questioning thread without warning nor explanation. That just means one thing. They are scaring, scaring of us telling the truth.

Kabam can twist whatever you want, but they cannot change the fact. The community is not happy with it.

Post 12.0 lesson is still fresh. And Kabam may need to hire a good (better) damage control manager.

There is already a thread for discussion of Alliance Wars, and that is the one you are currently in. Our forum rules clearly state that creating multiple threads to discuss one topic is not allowed. This is why your poll was shut down and deleted.

There is this thread, but there wasn't a poll. You should've left it to let the community share their voice with statistics.

Mightylibra

Ready61 wrote: »

A lot of you guys complaining about defenders kills. It's not the end of the world. For those reviving time and time again will be hurt with item usage. You can only use 15 items. Even the biggest health portions and revives can't save you from some champs placed on nodes. If placed correctly. I think for people that just spend will be limited as well because if item usage. Some of the paths have crazy nodes already in AW. If you put enough strong defenders on that path trust me you can run out of items

Which tier of war are you currently in?

In a tie match in higher tiers (1-4), unless we run in a top top alliance, we can basically explore at least 70% map and kill all bosses if 1/3 or 1/2 members are willing to spend some items, let alone all of them.

There are two parts in AW: Attack and Defense. If you want to win a war, you need good attackers as well as good defenders. In really tight matches, good defenders can decide the outcome of the match. Now, with new system in place, it's the size of your wallet that decide the outcome.

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Doomsfist79

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Amonthir wrote: »

Agree, keep Defender Kills. Give us a preview of map and nodes so we can discuss them, and you can make adjustments before it goes live. Don't pull the 'but we like surprises!' thing, this is need to know, need to discuss information. Make double and triple and double-triple sure the portals function correctly.

Unfortunately, there won't be any more information on Nodes made available at this time. Sorry guys, but you're going to have to wait and see! We've gone through many revisions on them already to ensure that they are not too punishing, and that they are enjoyable to play, while still sticking to that goal of playing up Champion archetypes.

You remember after 12.0 when Kabam said they would start testing their new releases with end users? Apparently that didn't last very long.

K1lltastic

Doomsfist79 wrote: »

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Amonthir wrote: »

Agree, keep Defender Kills. Give us a preview of map and nodes so we can discuss them, and you can make adjustments before it goes live. Don't pull the 'but we like surprises!' thing, this is need to know, need to discuss information. Make double and triple and double-triple sure the portals function correctly.

Unfortunately, there won't be any more information on Nodes made available at this time. Sorry guys, but you're going to have to wait and see! We've gone through many revisions on them already to ensure that they are not too punishing, and that they are enjoyable to play, while still sticking to that goal of playing up Champion archetypes.

You remember after 12.0 when Kabam said they would start testing their new releases with end users? Apparently that didn't last very long.

doubt it lasted past that one 'update' (I still call it a downgrade, or mortal wound)

Carnage313

I don't honestly understand why everyone is complaint so much about war. Respectfully everyone is entitled to their opinion of course. However war is garbage and has been for a long time. It's so boring. With the 12.0 update kabaams reasoning for changing champs was to add more diversity and make all useful. Yeah that was a lie. But with war all you do is fight the same 5-6 champs every single time, for example mordo majik Hyperion night crawler Spider-Man. My alliance is getting to the point of not wasting our time any more. Sorry I went on to long because my main reason for this post is @Kabam Miike and he is nothing addressed about the things that are broke in the game. How you broke vision in last update baffles me. Blocking parry evade freezing in the middle of combo. How is this not a focus to players instead of stupid war?

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Xstasis

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Summoners!

Our 15.0 Update is just about a week away, and with it, it's bringing a huge change to Alliance Wars! Check out everything you need to know about the Brand New Map, Scoring Changes, and new boosts in the Loyalty Store here: http://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/17902/15-0-alliance-wars-update/

So can we just agree that this bs about the defender kills is all just a ruse encouraging spending so you can line your filthy pockets with even more money now that the whales and ppl that don't care to spend to win will just throw units to take down a boss.
Where the hell is the skill going!

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gadgetfanatic

My suggestion in place of defender kills would be an inverse scoring for item use...example would be: 0 item use for 1 bg = 20k pts for the offensive group, 10 item use = 15k pts and so forth...the base points for minimal item use in a group should be significant enough to determine a win for a moderately close match. this will factor in player skill yet does not award points if one of their champs are killed. This will make the offense to continue attacking at least until they exhaust all their champs. smart defensive placement will counter this score though...

New_Noob168

This change is an obvious money grab as they want you to use more revives in case you get killed which they are encouraging more with the mini boss....what a joke. Typical

Cael_Enix

Kabam Miike wrote: »

Mana_Pot wrote: »

I am curious about the detect masteries now that its been brought up. This does make them completely useless. AQ has maps out there that list all of the opponents on what nodes. AW was the only place with variety (sorta) that they could be used. Can anyone tell me a purpose for them now that I may be missing?

This is something that I raised with the team, and they are discussing the situation now.

Hey Miike,

Any update on the detect masteries? A lot of class cores and loyalties were used to unlock them at various level...considering everyone gets them for free now what will be the future for these?

Possible Suggestion: Detect Masteries become Hidden Masteries and will prevent your AW opponent to see the class of that opponent...just a thought.

Thanks for all you do!

Tjattila1982

I think you should not take out defender kill points. You should take out defender rating points. When we don't have such a big team for defense but we still do 100% in attack and at the end the result is DEFEAT just because their defender rating points is bigger .... I think it's unfair. Now when you take out defender kill, money spender and KABAM will be very happy. V 12 was made for money spender too, but you just quickly fix that thing with damage while blocking and the fix was made because people start quiting the game. I think you should one more time review your decision regarding alliance war changes. Best regards Tjattila