Use of Shell Alliances - when will you stop it?

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Comments

  • No one is going to point out that no one cares about war anymore, shell alliances are for donation drops these days.

    Clearly you don't have a sense of what alliances are doing. They are using shell alliances to better their position and rank.

    To me, this is borderline cheating as it gives then a certain advantage over the alliances they face in wars. Is it illegal, no, not explicitly, but it is a practice that provides an unfair advantage to high alliances using this method.
    I believe the problem lies here, that it isn't against the rules at this time, even though you and many others might believe it is wrong and gives them unfair advantages. They aren't breaking any rules, so your approach should be to convince the game team to actually make such a rule firstly.
    If it's just morally wrong, but not actually against the games rules you cannot require people to abide by it...

    (btw... using the term illegal in this case seems exaggerated since it implies doing something wrong that could get you in trouble with the law. Not an appropriate term to use for breaking rules in a game. Just like it's not illegal cheating in monopoly, just against the rules)
  • GhostwalkerGhostwalker Posts: 3
    The people that use shell alliances keep asking what is a shell and how is it cheating? They know exactly what they are doing but try to justify it with the comment that it wont affect the higher alliances if its changed. Using third party for purchasing units, loyalty, gold, battle chips, goes against the TOS and is cheating. Tanking was removed from the game because according to kabam it went against the spirit of the game and was a form of cheating. In order to tank alliances created shells. They did this to use this party to purchase resources each season and to lower their war rating during off season. Place master season 12 then move 30 members to a shell that no higher than P1 2 or 3 for season 13. By doing this they have effectively tanked and put themselves in a position where they can get easier matchups against true P1-3 alliances and avoid matchups with master alliances. I hope I've explained adequately and no one needs a degree in English to understand.
  • DaywalkerUKDaywalkerUK Posts: 101
    Divisions? E.g. If you finish the season in position 1-90 you qualify for division 1 next season, if you finish in 91-100 you get demoted. Finish 101-110 and you're promoted to division 1, 111-180 and it's division 2 next season, 181-200 and you're demoted to division 3.... Season rewards are restricted to divisions and sub groups therein. If you want better rewards you push for promotion next season. If you want a break you accept demotion and lower maximum rewards. This would stop the use of shell alliances to get an easy start to the season because your tanked shell would be locked into a lower division.
  • arksarks Posts: 19

    Divisions? E.g. If you finish the season in position 1-90 you qualify for division 1 next season, if you finish in 91-100 you get demoted. Finish 101-110 and you're promoted to division 1, 111-180 and it's division 2 next season, 181-200 and you're demoted to division 3.... Season rewards are restricted to divisions and sub groups therein. If you want better rewards you push for promotion next season. If you want a break you accept demotion and lower maximum rewards. This would stop the use of shell alliances to get an easy start to the season because your tanked shell would be locked into a lower division.

    this was previous AQ system , so if they apply this again , its no difference to play 2 AQs at the same time
  • grolsch420grolsch420 Posts: 30
    It is funny that those in shell alliances are her to dislike the comments and say it all doesn't matter to their rank. They don't want their precious shell's taken away and to put up the recources in the treasury theirselves. Hypocrisy at its best!
  • Mellie_MelMellie_Mel Posts: 41
    @ShibbyMcDude

    It seems like you, and others, who are complaining about shell alliances assume they are doing so with 100% intent to “cheat” the game. First of all, changing alliances is not against the rules. Second, not all donation drops are done via illegal means. I use my alternate account and my wife’s account, for example, to help keep up with my donations. Map 7 is quite costly. Kabam has put some things in place to curb fraudulent donations and that has helped keep things honest. I think if the cost of map 7 was lowered, you would see far fewer shells.

    As for war, you have 100% control over your success so stop blaming Kabam! If you have full diversity and you don’t die, you’re very very likely to win. Try that for a change and stop whining about being “cheated” when you get a tough matchup. And for the record, I’m in a gold 1 alliance and we regularly get matched against top 20 rated alliances (shout out to 4Play and Phoenix for some tough tough matchups recently). You’re on a level playing field as they have the same nodes and defenders to work with. If you can’t get by those “shells”, well then my guys, you’re not ready for the master bracket anyway!

    Mell
  • Longshot_33Longshot_33 Posts: 104
    The only way to beat cheating at the top is to make it not worth it.
    Abandon seasons all together and just reward allys on wins and losses. Strip away all the complexity that goes with it.
    Problem is if kabam generate more income with seasons in place, regardless of who goes where or what is being manipulated, why would they even think of making a business move which reduces revenue? Bearing in mind that any decision cannot harm the bottom line as they will be made by people acting under the director who MUST act in the best interest of the shareholders, which ultimately to generate as much profit as possible.
  • ShibbyMcDudeShibbyMcDude Posts: 8
    edited November 2019

    @ShibbyMcDude

    It seems like you, and others, who are complaining about shell alliances assume they are doing so with 100% intent to “cheat” the game. First of all, changing alliances is not against the rules. Second, not all donation drops are done via illegal means. I use my alternate account and my wife’s account, for example, to help keep up with my donations. Map 7 is quite costly. Kabam has put some things in place to curb fraudulent donations and that has helped keep things honest. I think if the cost of map 7 was lowered, you would see far fewer shells.

    As for war, you have 100% control over your success so stop blaming Kabam! If you have full diversity and you don’t die, you’re very very likely to win. Try that for a change and stop whining about being “cheated” when you get a tough matchup. And for the record, I’m in a gold 1 alliance and we regularly get matched against top 20 rated alliances (shout out to 4Play and Phoenix for some tough tough matchups recently). You’re on a level playing field as they have the same nodes and defenders to work with. If you can’t get by those “shells”, well then my guys, you’re not ready for the master bracket anyway!

    Mell

    Are you serious when you say that the top alliances use shells to ‘not beat the system’ and use it to store gold from their alt accounts or wife’s account. Let me guess, you also believe in Santa? Bet you are excited he’s almost visiting again.

    Let’s not act like we are dumb, all know why shell alliances exist. U might have a fair use for your shell alliance, but most don’t. It’s a fact, they don’t even lie about it. They admit it in chats and war chat in game

    And we are in control and just should not die.. great point.. When u fight top master alliances with full 5/65 sig 200 defenders or better. That isn’t a level playing field. wars like this costs huge amounts of units, loyalty and items, and still u wont win. I never claimed that our alliance deserves to be master. Our alliances deserves a fair chance to fight for our p1/top p2, and fighting the master league alliances is not a matchup. But iteming out in war won’t happen in gold 1 I guess, at least I hope.

    So as far as I know. I only stated facts, pointed out unfair advantage of shell alliances and asked Kabam for a response.

    Its a forum where all can give their point of view. U seem quite agitated and quite offensive About this subject. Why is that ☺️?


  • arksarks Posts: 19

    @ShibbyMcDude

    It seems like you, and others, who are complaining about shell alliances assume they are doing so with 100% intent to “cheat” the game. First of all, changing alliances is not against the rules. Second, not all donation drops are done via illegal means. I use my alternate account and my wife’s account, for example, to help keep up with my donations. Map 7 is quite costly. Kabam has put some things in place to curb fraudulent donations and that has helped keep things honest. I think if the cost of map 7 was lowered, you would see far fewer shells.

    As for war, you have 100% control over your success so stop blaming Kabam! If you have full diversity and you don’t die, you’re very very likely to win. Try that for a change and stop whining about being “cheated” when you get a tough matchup. And for the record, I’m in a gold 1 alliance and we regularly get matched against top 20 rated alliances (shout out to 4Play and Phoenix for some tough tough matchups recently). You’re on a level playing field as they have the same nodes and defenders to work with. If you can’t get by those “shells”, well then my guys, you’re not ready for the master bracket anyway!

    Mell

    Are you serious when you say that the top alliances use shells to ‘not beat the system’ and use it to store gold from their alt accounts or wife’s account. Let me guess, you also believe in Santa? Bet you are excited he’s almost visiting again.

    Let’s not act like we are dumb, all know why shell alliances exist. U might have a fair use for your shell alliance, but most don’t. It’s a fact, they don’t even lie about it. They admit it in chats and war chat in game

    And we are in control and just should not die.. great point.. When u fight top master alliances with full 5/65 sig 200 defenders or better. That isn’t a level playing field. wars like this costs huge amounts of units, loyalty and items, and still u wont win. I never claimed that our alliance deserves to be master. Our alliances deserves a fair chance to fight for our p1/top p2, and fighting the master league alliances is not a matchup. But iteming out in war won’t happen in gold 1 I guess, at least I hope.

    So as far as I know. I only stated facts, pointed out unfair advantage of shell alliances and asked Kabam for a response.

    Its a forum where all can give their point of view. U seem quite agitated and quite offensive About this subject. Why is that ☺️?


    yoo man , first of all , you would need to describe in context , how is swapping to certain alliance with resources considered as cheating ? they spend time, money to get the resources. Says they can do that , and you know how they do that , then why dont you apply the same method on your alliance instead of whining ?
    If you assume that spending money to get better reward is considered as cheating then those whales who burn cash every weeks on catalyst deals or cavalier crystals might be considered as cheating as well since they just pay to get thing done. Note: "All the thing that I said isnt referring to sharing account activities."
  • ShibbyMcDudeShibbyMcDude Posts: 8
    edited November 2019
    Yo arks,

    Thanks for the respons, you only changing what I’m saying a little bit ;). Changing alliance isn’t cheating. I never said that I never will. The reasons why shell alliances are used, is not according to Terms of Service of Kabam though:

    1. Tanking war rating
    2. Using donation mercs/Buying cheap gold, battle chips and loyalty

    Kabam changed rules to prevent both, shell alliances create a loophole to still use this.

    Why our alliance isn’t doing this? Because we all believe in a fair gaming environment without making advantages of loopholes and doing stuff kabam isn’t allowing. We like to play fair :).

    And no, I did not say spending money is cheating. I also spend and can’t wait for the deals tonight. Buying cheap resources from donation mercs is cheating though. that is why kabam changed rules about this: U cant donate first 7 days after joining an alliance. The shell easily avoids this problem because the alliance won’t play competitively whole season.

    I hope I have u context, sorry if u thought I said spending and changing alliances is cheating. I never did ;).
  • The only way to beat cheating at the top is to make it not worth it.
    Abandon seasons all together and just reward allys on wins and losses. Strip away all the complexity that goes with it.
    Problem is if kabam generate more income with seasons in place, regardless of who goes where or what is being manipulated, why would they even think of making a business move which reduces revenue? Bearing in mind that any decision cannot harm the bottom line as they will be made by people acting under the director who MUST act in the best interest of the shareholders, which ultimately to generate as much profit as possible.

    I agree. I haven't actually played in wars at all since they started with seasons. Now I'm in a very relaxed alliance, and might enjoy some AQ, but otherwise mostly solo content. :) I get reminded of the time I played WoW when it was new, and how I quit after less than a year playing because it required so much coordinating with an alliance. it took the joy out of gaming for me at least, and took up too much of my time.

    For me it seemed simpler here in mcoc before the war seasons, and more fun.

    The current rules obviously creates loopholes and grey areas that can be taken advantage of. I get that it might be frustrating that some players and alliances do take advantage of that, but it seems very difficult to stop. They would need to somehow make a clear rule against that method, so that it's easier to point out that that behavior is actually against the rules, or make it difficult to benefit from it. As long as the loop hole exists, and it isn't clearly stated that it is against the rules, it can only be frowned upon, but can't really have any consequences... and people are people. If there are ways to exploit a system, someone will always do it. Basically part of human behavior.
  • GOTGGOTG Posts: 165
    Anyone cares to explain to me why there are only 2 inactive accounts in the best alliance war alliance currently? (You know who it is). As someone said they use shell alliance for donations but with those two inactive accounts they will not get any donations no?
  • grolsch420grolsch420 Posts: 30
    Still encountering shell's, right there in the 1st matchup.
    @Kabam Miike @Kabam Vydious @Kabam Lyra @Kabam Porthos @Kabam Zibiit
    Why is kabam so quiet about this? You need to come forward and acknowledge there is a problem here. And also do something about it. War is broken in tier2.
  • MavRCK_MavRCK_ Posts: 280 ★★
    edited December 2019
    Shell alliances are forms of cheating at AW and cheating at the donations requirements of grinding and time spent or spending money on units. Buying cheap donations funded by arena bots is bleep bleep manure.
  • Doomsfist79Doomsfist79 Posts: 498 ★★★
    They will stop it when they don't benefit from it.. simple as that.. this thread can no be closed as the question has been answered..
  • ReferenceReference Posts: 676 ★★
    Viclap said:

    The use of Shell Alliances to basically cheat is rampant and is at a point of severely compromising both AQ and AW Leaderboards.

    You know it’s going on, just as you knew piloting was - and still is - going on.

    Why are you letting it continue

    It’s not hard to prevent so when are you going to do something about it?!?

    Can you elaborate a bit “ It’s not hard to prevent” and your suggested method?
  • ViclapViclap Posts: 27

    The only way to beat cheating at the top is to make it not worth it.
    Abandon seasons all together and just reward allys on wins and losses. Strip away all the complexity that goes with it.
    Problem is if kabam generate more income with seasons in place, regardless of who goes where or what is being manipulated, why would they even think of making a business move which reduces revenue? Bearing in mind that any decision cannot harm the bottom line as they will be made by people acting under the director who MUST act in the best interest of the shareholders, which ultimately to generate as much profit as possible.

    I agree. I haven't actually played in wars at all since they started with seasons. Now I'm in a very relaxed alliance, and might enjoy some AQ, but otherwise mostly solo content. :) I get reminded of the time I played WoW when it was new, and how I quit after less than a year playing because it required so much coordinating with an alliance. it took the joy out of gaming for me at least, and took up too much of my time.

    For me it seemed simpler here in mcoc before the war seasons, and more fun.

    The current rules obviously creates loopholes and grey areas that can be taken advantage of. I get that it might be frustrating that some players and alliances do take advantage of that, but it seems very difficult to stop. They would need to somehow make a clear rule against that method, so that it's easier to point out that that behavior is actually against the rules, or make it difficult to benefit from it. As long as the loop hole exists, and it isn't clearly stated that it is against the rules, it can only be frowned upon, but can't really have any consequences... and people are people. If there are ways to exploit a system, someone will always do it. Basically part of human behavior.

    The only way to beat cheating at the top is to make it not worth it.
    Abandon seasons all together and just reward allys on wins and losses. Strip away all the complexity that goes with it.
    Problem is if kabam generate more income with seasons in place, regardless of who goes where or what is being manipulated, why would they even think of making a business move which reduces revenue? Bearing in mind that any decision cannot harm the bottom line as they will be made by people acting under the director who MUST act in the best interest of the shareholders, which ultimately to generate as much profit as possible.

    I agree. I haven't actually played in wars at all since they started with seasons. Now I'm in a very relaxed alliance, and might enjoy some AQ, but otherwise mostly solo content. :) I get reminded of the time I played WoW when it was new, and how I quit after less than a year playing because it required so much coordinating with an alliance. it took the joy out of gaming for me at least, and took up too much of my time.

    For me it seemed simpler here in mcoc before the war seasons, and more fun.

    The current rules obviously creates loopholes and grey areas that can be taken advantage of. I get that it might be frustrating that some players and alliances do take advantage of that, but it seems very difficult to stop. They would need to somehow make a clear rule against that method, so that it's easier to point out that that behavior is actually against the rules, or make it difficult to benefit from it. As long as the loop hole exists, and it isn't clearly stated that it is against the rules, it can only be frowned upon, but can't really have any consequences... and people are people. If there are ways to exploit a system, someone will always do it. Basically part of human behavior.
    Sure, and this is why we have laws in place to protect us from each other.

    And since players aren’t going to do the right thing on their own here, Kabam needs to step in and do something about it.
  • ViclapViclap Posts: 27
    Reference said:

    Viclap said:

    The use of Shell Alliances to basically cheat is rampant and is at a point of severely compromising both AQ and AW Leaderboards.

    You know it’s going on, just as you knew piloting was - and still is - going on.

    Why are you letting it continue

    It’s not hard to prevent so when are you going to do something about it?!?

    Can you elaborate a bit “ It’s not hard to prevent” and your suggested method?
    Reference said:

    Viclap said:

    The use of Shell Alliances to basically cheat is rampant and is at a point of severely compromising both AQ and AW Leaderboards.

    You know it’s going on, just as you knew piloting was - and still is - going on.

    Why are you letting it continue

    It’s not hard to prevent so when are you going to do something about it?!?

    Can you elaborate a bit “ It’s not hard to prevent” and your suggested method?
    Reference said:

    Viclap said:

    The use of Shell Alliances to basically cheat is rampant and is at a point of severely compromising both AQ and AW Leaderboards.

    You know it’s going on, just as you knew piloting was - and still is - going on.

    Why are you letting it continue

    It’s not hard to prevent so when are you going to do something about it?!?

    Can you elaborate a bit “ It’s not hard to prevent” and your suggested method?
    For starters, allocate a war rating to players, and not the alliance.

    That way, wherever they go, they will carry their rating with them.

    And an alliance war rating is then simply the average of all 30 player ratings.

    Like I said, it’s simple.

    Kabam know it’s simple.

    They just don’t want to push more whales out of the game, after how many left when anti-piloting became a thing.
  • G0311G0311 Posts: 842 ★★★
    Can't stop it, They would have to prove that the mass exits were intentional. It would be to time consuming and tedious and it still wont stop it. Just like in real life all crime can't be stopped, plus it's not really a big deal, not worth the effort, like gifting thing, the fruad was not such a problem that they git rid of the badge.
    When people use stolen credit cards to buy things at a store would it makes sense to ban the use of all credit cards? No same here.
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