Gifting event - Right or Wrong

TJ82TJ82 Posts: 603 ★★★
Would like to hear what this forum thinks about the recent Gifting event. Was it right or wrong to bring this event, when Kabam did removed Gifting badge earlier in 2019.

It has surely opened a can-of worms with so many accusation of frauds and unethical actions by few alliances. No need to take names here, most of all have read about it.

For me, it was baffling to see Kabam bringing this event as it kills the sole purpose of removing gifting badge.
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Comments

  • MoosetiptronicMoosetiptronic Posts: 1,378 ★★★★
    I agree with seatin's sum up. If the top whales, who pay to keep this game alive, feel cheated by the gifting event, then kabam may have seriously misjudged it. Some of them spent tens of thousands of dollars on this event alone.

    If they feel defrauded by a shady system and quit, then bye bye f2p model.

    Although maybe that would be a good thing?
  • Doomsfist79Doomsfist79 Posts: 920 ★★★
    Tayyab82 said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Yes I agree. Thn why take away gifting badge??
    The gifting badge was removed because unfortunately some people used it to commit fraud.. but it's acceptable for two weeks over christmas.. cause hey.. there's money to be made..
  • Personally I think they if they keep the gifting badge, but limit gifting events to solo objectives, they would remove quite a bit of incentive to cheat at the event.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Posts: 725 ★★★
    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Posts: 725 ★★★
    edited January 2020

    Personally I think they if they keep the gifting badge, but limit gifting events to solo objectives, they would remove quite a bit of incentive to cheat at the event.

    Not true... people can just hire a person that deals in Credit Card fraud for the fraction of the price to gift pots, revives and energy... cheating would be still used heavily in AW
  • Mcord11758Mcord11758 Posts: 1,249 ★★★★
    Placing the rewards at the top that were there basically did everything up to and potentially encouraged rampant fraud. There is a likelihood that many people will exit the holiday season trying to figure out why their credit cards spent money on this game. This was ultimately very predictable. I benefited greatly from the rewards of this event but feel it should never have happened
  • Colinwhitworth69Colinwhitworth69 Posts: 5,008 ★★★★★
    Tayyab82 said:

    Would like to hear what this forum thinks about the recent Gifting event. Was it right or wrong to bring this event, when Kabam did removed Gifting badge earlier in 2019.

    It has surely opened a can-of worms with so many accusation of frauds and unethical actions by few alliances. No need to take names here, most of all have read about it.

    For me, it was baffling to see Kabam bringing this event as it kills the sole purpose of removing gifting badge.

    I personally love the gifting event. The alleged fraud and such seems to really only impact the very very very top alliances and players, and it didn’t impact me at all. I’m not excusing their behavior, but I don’t want it to cause Kabam to take away next year. Maybe they could do away with the rank rewards, and increase the number of milestones and add some juicy rewards? It would be a hard decision for them, I’m sure, because they obviously made a lot of money off of this event. And they are a business.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Posts: 725 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
    The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart.

    1) is rotating players in to gift units in violation of the rules:
    no
    2) is there evidence that the people rotated in were using fraudulent CC's?
    not by anyone in the community, only Kabam knows this
    3) Even if kabam determined fraudulent CCs were used is there any evidence that MMX knew about that part of that?

    This last part is key If you cannot prove that MMX knew about any fraud, and their method was within the rules it is hard to take their rewards away, if they can prove it they should strip the rewards and maybe even ban them, but that will be a tough road.

    If what they did was morally right though I would have to pose a question, if you had 200k to waste on a game, but your alliance could not send you 200k of gifts back to you, how would you go about the event? I dont know about you but I would use an alt that can gift during the event put them in the alliance and gift my main the GGCs so my main could get them.
    Did I say that MMX should be stripped of anything?
    NO

    Why are you so defensive of MMX? That is odd. I even stated that:
    "To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units."

    Whether you want hardcore evidence or not, it happens. My point is that no matter whom is the person/alliance, it happens and that events like this. I don't need evidence to have assumptions that these types of issue happen. I only need evidence if I am seeking to levy a punishment, which I have not requested nor inferred my good sir/ma'am.

    I am only pointing out that these types of events will generate this type of activity and thus should not be utilized by Kabam.

    As for MMX, I hope they didn't use fraudulent units from CC fraud. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they were (even it was unknown to them). THey may have paid a service to simply login and gift. They may not know the validity of those units. However, it is events like this that will destroy the spirit of the community and cause further degradation on the player base's trust of the top tier teams and Kabam.

    It is sad, but the court of public opinion is always one that will be hard to fight. And unfortunately, you do not need hardcore evidence to sway that opinion. I can say that in my personal experience, it has happened in other games and most likely happened in this event. Even if it wasn't MMX, it most likely happened with a team that came in the top 30. Events like this should not exist.
  • GandunflasGandunflas Posts: 8
    Gifting badge should be taken out of the contest forever. It would help to get rid off all those scammer mercs.

    Merc = Community Parasite
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,365 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
    The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart.

    1) is rotating players in to gift units in violation of the rules:
    no
    2) is there evidence that the people rotated in were using fraudulent CC's?
    not by anyone in the community, only Kabam knows this
    3) Even if kabam determined fraudulent CCs were used is there any evidence that MMX knew about that part of that?

    This last part is key If you cannot prove that MMX knew about any fraud, and their method was within the rules it is hard to take their rewards away, if they can prove it they should strip the rewards and maybe even ban them, but that will be a tough road.

    If what they did was morally right though I would have to pose a question, if you had 200k to waste on a game, but your alliance could not send you 200k of gifts back to you, how would you go about the event? I dont know about you but I would use an alt that can gift during the event put them in the alliance and gift my main the GGCs so my main could get them.
    Did I say that MMX should be stripped of anything?
    NO

    Why are you so defensive of MMX? That is odd. I even stated that:
    "To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units."

    Whether you want hardcore evidence or not, it happens. My point is that no matter whom is the person/alliance, it happens and that events like this. I don't need evidence to have assumptions that these types of issue happen. I only need evidence if I am seeking to levy a punishment, which I have not requested nor inferred my good sir/ma'am.

    I am only pointing out that these types of events will generate this type of activity and thus should not be utilized by Kabam.

    As for MMX, I hope they didn't use fraudulent units from CC fraud. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they were (even it was unknown to them). THey may have paid a service to simply login and gift. They may not know the validity of those units. However, it is events like this that will destroy the spirit of the community and cause further degradation on the player base's trust of the top tier teams and Kabam.

    It is sad, but the court of public opinion is always one that will be hard to fight. And unfortunately, you do not need hardcore evidence to sway that opinion. I can say that in my personal experience, it has happened in other games and most likely happened in this event. Even if it wasn't MMX, it most likely happened with a team that came in the top 30. Events like this should not exist.
    Where was I defensive of MMX? I specifically stated that if they were found to have known about fraudulent transactions they should have the title stripped and even possibly banned. You could take my post and remove the name MMX and replace it with anyone who came in first place and it would be the same.

    Like I said the problem is not if fraudulent CCs were used but if it can be shown that they knew they were being used. without being able to prove intent it is hard to punish someone. you are correct about the count of public opinion, it is a terrible thing.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,365 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
    The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart.

    1) is rotating players in to gift units in violation of the rules:
    no
    2) is there evidence that the people rotated in were using fraudulent CC's?
    not by anyone in the community, only Kabam knows this
    3) Even if kabam determined fraudulent CCs were used is there any evidence that MMX knew about that part of that?

    This last part is key If you cannot prove that MMX knew about any fraud, and their method was within the rules it is hard to take their rewards away, if they can prove it they should strip the rewards and maybe even ban them, but that will be a tough road.

    If what they did was morally right though I would have to pose a question, if you had 200k to waste on a game, but your alliance could not send you 200k of gifts back to you, how would you go about the event? I dont know about you but I would use an alt that can gift during the event put them in the alliance and gift my main the GGCs so my main could get them.
    Did I say that MMX should be stripped of anything?
    NO

    Why are you so defensive of MMX? That is odd. I even stated that:
    "To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units."

    Whether you want hardcore evidence or not, it happens. My point is that no matter whom is the person/alliance, it happens and that events like this. I don't need evidence to have assumptions that these types of issue happen. I only need evidence if I am seeking to levy a punishment, which I have not requested nor inferred my good sir/ma'am.

    I am only pointing out that these types of events will generate this type of activity and thus should not be utilized by Kabam.

    As for MMX, I hope they didn't use fraudulent units from CC fraud. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they were (even it was unknown to them). THey may have paid a service to simply login and gift. They may not know the validity of those units. However, it is events like this that will destroy the spirit of the community and cause further degradation on the player base's trust of the top tier teams and Kabam.

    It is sad, but the court of public opinion is always one that will be hard to fight. And unfortunately, you do not need hardcore evidence to sway that opinion. I can say that in my personal experience, it has happened in other games and most likely happened in this event. Even if it wasn't MMX, it most likely happened with a team that came in the top 30. Events like this should not exist.
    Where was I defensive of MMX? I specifically stated that if they were found to have known about fraudulent transactions they should have the title stripped and even possibly banned. You could take my post and remove the name MMX and replace it with anyone who came in first place and it would be the same.

    Like I said the problem is not if fraudulent CCs were used but if it can be shown that they knew they were being used. without being able to prove intent it is hard to punish someone. you are correct about the count of public opinion, it is a terrible thing.
    Top 200 individual gifting

    MMXIV - 9 Players
    ASGRD - 13 Players (1st & 3rd)
    NY718 - 12 Players

    Results

    MMXIV - 1st
    ASGRD - 2nd
    NY718 - 4th

    Something is rotten in the state of Denmark
    That does not prove any problems, all it shows is that they rotated people in that were not in the alliance to gift to the alliance. That in and of itself is not against the rules. The problem would arise if any of the people they brought in used CC fraud and they knew of it.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Posts: 725 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
    The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart.

    1) is rotating players in to gift units in violation of the rules:
    no
    2) is there evidence that the people rotated in were using fraudulent CC's?
    not by anyone in the community, only Kabam knows this
    3) Even if kabam determined fraudulent CCs were used is there any evidence that MMX knew about that part of that?

    This last part is key If you cannot prove that MMX knew about any fraud, and their method was within the rules it is hard to take their rewards away, if they can prove it they should strip the rewards and maybe even ban them, but that will be a tough road.

    If what they did was morally right though I would have to pose a question, if you had 200k to waste on a game, but your alliance could not send you 200k of gifts back to you, how would you go about the event? I dont know about you but I would use an alt that can gift during the event put them in the alliance and gift my main the GGCs so my main could get them.
    Did I say that MMX should be stripped of anything?
    NO

    Why are you so defensive of MMX? That is odd. I even stated that:
    "To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units."

    Whether you want hardcore evidence or not, it happens. My point is that no matter whom is the person/alliance, it happens and that events like this. I don't need evidence to have assumptions that these types of issue happen. I only need evidence if I am seeking to levy a punishment, which I have not requested nor inferred my good sir/ma'am.

    I am only pointing out that these types of events will generate this type of activity and thus should not be utilized by Kabam.

    As for MMX, I hope they didn't use fraudulent units from CC fraud. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they were (even it was unknown to them). THey may have paid a service to simply login and gift. They may not know the validity of those units. However, it is events like this that will destroy the spirit of the community and cause further degradation on the player base's trust of the top tier teams and Kabam.

    It is sad, but the court of public opinion is always one that will be hard to fight. And unfortunately, you do not need hardcore evidence to sway that opinion. I can say that in my personal experience, it has happened in other games and most likely happened in this event. Even if it wasn't MMX, it most likely happened with a team that came in the top 30. Events like this should not exist.
    Where was I defensive of MMX? I specifically stated that if they were found to have known about fraudulent transactions they should have the title stripped and even possibly banned. You could take my post and remove the name MMX and replace it with anyone who came in first place and it would be the same.

    Like I said the problem is not if fraudulent CCs were used but if it can be shown that they knew they were being used. without being able to prove intent it is hard to punish someone. you are correct about the count of public opinion, it is a terrible thing.
    Seriously? You have to ask LMAO:
    "The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart."

    It is in the first sentence, and then you give points that they didn't violate any "rules" under the assumption that all accounts that they brought on to spend had legitimate units. There is far more reasonable suspension of low level accounts that will NEVER receive rewards for the event jumping in an gifting several thousands/tens of thousands of units. Not to mention that not many MMX were in the top 200 of the solo event. When you look at the numbers put up to acquire first, you know that something that was not 100 kosher was being done.

    But yet again, I didn't directly bring up MMX, you did. And to think everything was done 100% legitimately is foolish at best. There is more reason to suspect the activity than there is to think that each member had 4-5 F2P accounts that they grinded arena all year for an event we/they didn't know about until before the event was announced.

    However, that is for Kabam to research and figure out and if suspicions are proven factual, for Kabam to punish. However, Kabam should be 100% transparent with any investigation and what happened after they come down with a punishment based on said facts. If anything, it is needed to improve the trust of the community.
  • New_Noob168New_Noob168 Posts: 1,480 ★★★★
    It’s right for the wallets for a company
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,365 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
    The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart.

    1) is rotating players in to gift units in violation of the rules:
    no
    2) is there evidence that the people rotated in were using fraudulent CC's?
    not by anyone in the community, only Kabam knows this
    3) Even if kabam determined fraudulent CCs were used is there any evidence that MMX knew about that part of that?

    This last part is key If you cannot prove that MMX knew about any fraud, and their method was within the rules it is hard to take their rewards away, if they can prove it they should strip the rewards and maybe even ban them, but that will be a tough road.

    If what they did was morally right though I would have to pose a question, if you had 200k to waste on a game, but your alliance could not send you 200k of gifts back to you, how would you go about the event? I dont know about you but I would use an alt that can gift during the event put them in the alliance and gift my main the GGCs so my main could get them.
    Did I say that MMX should be stripped of anything?
    NO

    Why are you so defensive of MMX? That is odd. I even stated that:
    "To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units."

    Whether you want hardcore evidence or not, it happens. My point is that no matter whom is the person/alliance, it happens and that events like this. I don't need evidence to have assumptions that these types of issue happen. I only need evidence if I am seeking to levy a punishment, which I have not requested nor inferred my good sir/ma'am.

    I am only pointing out that these types of events will generate this type of activity and thus should not be utilized by Kabam.

    As for MMX, I hope they didn't use fraudulent units from CC fraud. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they were (even it was unknown to them). THey may have paid a service to simply login and gift. They may not know the validity of those units. However, it is events like this that will destroy the spirit of the community and cause further degradation on the player base's trust of the top tier teams and Kabam.

    It is sad, but the court of public opinion is always one that will be hard to fight. And unfortunately, you do not need hardcore evidence to sway that opinion. I can say that in my personal experience, it has happened in other games and most likely happened in this event. Even if it wasn't MMX, it most likely happened with a team that came in the top 30. Events like this should not exist.
    Where was I defensive of MMX? I specifically stated that if they were found to have known about fraudulent transactions they should have the title stripped and even possibly banned. You could take my post and remove the name MMX and replace it with anyone who came in first place and it would be the same.

    Like I said the problem is not if fraudulent CCs were used but if it can be shown that they knew they were being used. without being able to prove intent it is hard to punish someone. you are correct about the count of public opinion, it is a terrible thing.
    Seriously? You have to ask LMAO:
    "The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart."

    It is in the first sentence, and then you give points that they didn't violate any "rules" under the assumption that all accounts that they brought on to spend had legitimate units. There is far more reasonable suspension of low level accounts that will NEVER receive rewards for the event jumping in an gifting several thousands/tens of thousands of units. Not to mention that not many MMX were in the top 200 of the solo event. When you look at the numbers put up to acquire first, you know that something that was not 100 kosher was being done.

    But yet again, I didn't directly bring up MMX, you did. And to think everything was done 100% legitimately is foolish at best. There is more reason to suspect the activity than there is to think that each member had 4-5 F2P accounts that they grinded arena all year for an event we/they didn't know about until before the event was announced.

    However, that is for Kabam to research and figure out and if suspicions are proven factual, for Kabam to punish. However, Kabam should be 100% transparent with any investigation and what happened after they come down with a punishment based on said facts. If anything, it is needed to improve the trust of the community.
    yes, I have to asked. I did not assume anything. I never stated absolutely any rules violations happened or not, with the exception of the fact that bringing in someone some to your alliance to gift in and of itself is not a rules violation, then constructed a flowchart to see where violations could be. Please read more carefully. Again I only mentioned the alliance name because they were the top winners, everything I stated could be replaced with whoever happen to be in the top seat. That you cannot see that speaks more about your motivations than mine. I never stated everything was done on the up and up, I dont make that assumption, but the fact is you cannot just punish people because other people committed fraud without their knowledge, unless you can prove it was with their knowledge. You can suspect all you want, but that will not raise the the level needed for punishment.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Posts: 725 ★★★
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
    The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart.

    1) is rotating players in to gift units in violation of the rules:
    no
    2) is there evidence that the people rotated in were using fraudulent CC's?
    not by anyone in the community, only Kabam knows this
    3) Even if kabam determined fraudulent CCs were used is there any evidence that MMX knew about that part of that?

    This last part is key If you cannot prove that MMX knew about any fraud, and their method was within the rules it is hard to take their rewards away, if they can prove it they should strip the rewards and maybe even ban them, but that will be a tough road.

    If what they did was morally right though I would have to pose a question, if you had 200k to waste on a game, but your alliance could not send you 200k of gifts back to you, how would you go about the event? I dont know about you but I would use an alt that can gift during the event put them in the alliance and gift my main the GGCs so my main could get them.
    Did I say that MMX should be stripped of anything?
    NO

    Why are you so defensive of MMX? That is odd. I even stated that:
    "To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units."

    Whether you want hardcore evidence or not, it happens. My point is that no matter whom is the person/alliance, it happens and that events like this. I don't need evidence to have assumptions that these types of issue happen. I only need evidence if I am seeking to levy a punishment, which I have not requested nor inferred my good sir/ma'am.

    I am only pointing out that these types of events will generate this type of activity and thus should not be utilized by Kabam.

    As for MMX, I hope they didn't use fraudulent units from CC fraud. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they were (even it was unknown to them). THey may have paid a service to simply login and gift. They may not know the validity of those units. However, it is events like this that will destroy the spirit of the community and cause further degradation on the player base's trust of the top tier teams and Kabam.

    It is sad, but the court of public opinion is always one that will be hard to fight. And unfortunately, you do not need hardcore evidence to sway that opinion. I can say that in my personal experience, it has happened in other games and most likely happened in this event. Even if it wasn't MMX, it most likely happened with a team that came in the top 30. Events like this should not exist.
    Where was I defensive of MMX? I specifically stated that if they were found to have known about fraudulent transactions they should have the title stripped and even possibly banned. You could take my post and remove the name MMX and replace it with anyone who came in first place and it would be the same.

    Like I said the problem is not if fraudulent CCs were used but if it can be shown that they knew they were being used. without being able to prove intent it is hard to punish someone. you are correct about the count of public opinion, it is a terrible thing.
    Seriously? You have to ask LMAO:
    "The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart."

    It is in the first sentence, and then you give points that they didn't violate any "rules" under the assumption that all accounts that they brought on to spend had legitimate units. There is far more reasonable suspension of low level accounts that will NEVER receive rewards for the event jumping in an gifting several thousands/tens of thousands of units. Not to mention that not many MMX were in the top 200 of the solo event. When you look at the numbers put up to acquire first, you know that something that was not 100 kosher was being done.

    But yet again, I didn't directly bring up MMX, you did. And to think everything was done 100% legitimately is foolish at best. There is more reason to suspect the activity than there is to think that each member had 4-5 F2P accounts that they grinded arena all year for an event we/they didn't know about until before the event was announced.

    However, that is for Kabam to research and figure out and if suspicions are proven factual, for Kabam to punish. However, Kabam should be 100% transparent with any investigation and what happened after they come down with a punishment based on said facts. If anything, it is needed to improve the trust of the community.
    yes, I have to asked. I did not assume anything. I never stated absolutely any rules violations happened or not, with the exception of the fact that bringing in someone some to your alliance to gift in and of itself is not a rules violation, then constructed a flowchart to see where violations could be. Please read more carefully. Again I only mentioned the alliance name because they were the top winners, everything I stated could be replaced with whoever happen to be in the top seat. That you cannot see that speaks more about your motivations than mine. I never stated everything was done on the up and up, I dont make that assumption, but the fact is you cannot just punish people because other people committed fraud without their knowledge, unless you can prove it was with their knowledge. You can suspect all you want, but that will not raise the the level needed for punishment.
    And how many people will join an alliance to donate several thousands of units and not have rights to the awards for top placement? How many free accounts can 30 people grind to generate enough units to dominate an event that had very few in the top 200, let alone in the top 10? If the top 2 spent $70,000 each and 126 (Seatin's placement) was $3500. You would have to dominate the top 20-30 spots with most being at 1-10... Which we know it was not done.

    The sheer amount of manual grinding of units on secondary accounts is highly unlikely, as they would have the time to do it on their mains. It is hard to believe they saved up for a year on secondary and tertiary accounts for an event they knew nothing about a week or two prior to the event. I find it extremely hard to believe that random people would join and donate to the alliance with no donation back (as more members would be in the top 20-30 and are not), so this points it was 1-way donations. Who would donate 1000's of units for free?

    And if it was free accounts with 1000 units and done 100% legitimately, how many accounts would have to have been used? We know the volume of units for 2nd place and data to see what is would have taken. I see manpower the sole lack of ability to manually donate the level of units via auxiliary accounts. The only logical assumption is purchasing units from a service. Buying units/items from a 3rd party is against the rules, it is against ToS... even if it was Credit Card fraud or not, as it could also be done threw bots. However, it is safer to assume that the service they used did conduct in CC Fraud or Bots (as this is almost always the case).

    Not to mention that even if it was within the "rule" it was an exploit.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,365 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
    The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart.

    1) is rotating players in to gift units in violation of the rules:
    no
    2) is there evidence that the people rotated in were using fraudulent CC's?
    not by anyone in the community, only Kabam knows this
    3) Even if kabam determined fraudulent CCs were used is there any evidence that MMX knew about that part of that?

    This last part is key If you cannot prove that MMX knew about any fraud, and their method was within the rules it is hard to take their rewards away, if they can prove it they should strip the rewards and maybe even ban them, but that will be a tough road.

    If what they did was morally right though I would have to pose a question, if you had 200k to waste on a game, but your alliance could not send you 200k of gifts back to you, how would you go about the event? I dont know about you but I would use an alt that can gift during the event put them in the alliance and gift my main the GGCs so my main could get them.
    Did I say that MMX should be stripped of anything?
    NO

    Why are you so defensive of MMX? That is odd. I even stated that:
    "To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units."

    Whether you want hardcore evidence or not, it happens. My point is that no matter whom is the person/alliance, it happens and that events like this. I don't need evidence to have assumptions that these types of issue happen. I only need evidence if I am seeking to levy a punishment, which I have not requested nor inferred my good sir/ma'am.

    I am only pointing out that these types of events will generate this type of activity and thus should not be utilized by Kabam.

    As for MMX, I hope they didn't use fraudulent units from CC fraud. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they were (even it was unknown to them). THey may have paid a service to simply login and gift. They may not know the validity of those units. However, it is events like this that will destroy the spirit of the community and cause further degradation on the player base's trust of the top tier teams and Kabam.

    It is sad, but the court of public opinion is always one that will be hard to fight. And unfortunately, you do not need hardcore evidence to sway that opinion. I can say that in my personal experience, it has happened in other games and most likely happened in this event. Even if it wasn't MMX, it most likely happened with a team that came in the top 30. Events like this should not exist.
    Where was I defensive of MMX? I specifically stated that if they were found to have known about fraudulent transactions they should have the title stripped and even possibly banned. You could take my post and remove the name MMX and replace it with anyone who came in first place and it would be the same.

    Like I said the problem is not if fraudulent CCs were used but if it can be shown that they knew they were being used. without being able to prove intent it is hard to punish someone. you are correct about the count of public opinion, it is a terrible thing.
    Seriously? You have to ask LMAO:
    "The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart."

    It is in the first sentence, and then you give points that they didn't violate any "rules" under the assumption that all accounts that they brought on to spend had legitimate units. There is far more reasonable suspension of low level accounts that will NEVER receive rewards for the event jumping in an gifting several thousands/tens of thousands of units. Not to mention that not many MMX were in the top 200 of the solo event. When you look at the numbers put up to acquire first, you know that something that was not 100 kosher was being done.

    But yet again, I didn't directly bring up MMX, you did. And to think everything was done 100% legitimately is foolish at best. There is more reason to suspect the activity than there is to think that each member had 4-5 F2P accounts that they grinded arena all year for an event we/they didn't know about until before the event was announced.

    However, that is for Kabam to research and figure out and if suspicions are proven factual, for Kabam to punish. However, Kabam should be 100% transparent with any investigation and what happened after they come down with a punishment based on said facts. If anything, it is needed to improve the trust of the community.
    yes, I have to asked. I did not assume anything. I never stated absolutely any rules violations happened or not, with the exception of the fact that bringing in someone some to your alliance to gift in and of itself is not a rules violation, then constructed a flowchart to see where violations could be. Please read more carefully. Again I only mentioned the alliance name because they were the top winners, everything I stated could be replaced with whoever happen to be in the top seat. That you cannot see that speaks more about your motivations than mine. I never stated everything was done on the up and up, I dont make that assumption, but the fact is you cannot just punish people because other people committed fraud without their knowledge, unless you can prove it was with their knowledge. You can suspect all you want, but that will not raise the the level needed for punishment.
    And how many people will join an alliance to donate several thousands of units and not have rights to the awards for top placement? How many free accounts can 30 people grind to generate enough units to dominate an event that had very few in the top 200, let alone in the top 10? If the top 2 spent $70,000 each and 126 (Seatin's placement) was $3500. You would have to dominate the top 20-30 spots with most being at 1-10... Which we know it was not done.

    The sheer amount of manual grinding of units on secondary accounts is highly unlikely, as they would have the time to do it on their mains. It is hard to believe they saved up for a year on secondary and tertiary accounts for an event they knew nothing about a week or two prior to the event. I find it extremely hard to believe that random people would join and donate to the alliance with no donation back (as more members would be in the top 20-30 and are not), so this points it was 1-way donations. Who would donate 1000's of units for free?

    And if it was free accounts with 1000 units and done 100% legitimately, how many accounts would have to have been used? We know the volume of units for 2nd place and data to see what is would have taken. I see manpower the sole lack of ability to manually donate the level of units via auxiliary accounts. The only logical assumption is purchasing units from a service. Buying units/items from a 3rd party is against the rules, it is against ToS... even if it was Credit Card fraud or not, as it could also be done threw bots. However, it is safer to assume that the service they used did conduct in CC Fraud or Bots (as this is almost always the case).

    Not to mention that even if it was within the "rule" it was an exploit.
    You seem to be under the impression that the gifting event requires it from the members of the alliance that they cannot legally rotate in others to gift outside of this, atleast that is what this entire post seems to be about.

    As for buying units/items from 3rd party, that is a hard one to crack there, as did they buy units/items or time, as some people have claimed to get past it. Other than that you seem ready to convict mainly on circumstantial evidence.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Posts: 725 ★★★
    edited January 2020
    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
    The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart.

    1) is rotating players in to gift units in violation of the rules:
    no
    2) is there evidence that the people rotated in were using fraudulent CC's?
    not by anyone in the community, only Kabam knows this
    3) Even if kabam determined fraudulent CCs were used is there any evidence that MMX knew about that part of that?

    This last part is key If you cannot prove that MMX knew about any fraud, and their method was within the rules it is hard to take their rewards away, if they can prove it they should strip the rewards and maybe even ban them, but that will be a tough road.

    If what they did was morally right though I would have to pose a question, if you had 200k to waste on a game, but your alliance could not send you 200k of gifts back to you, how would you go about the event? I dont know about you but I would use an alt that can gift during the event put them in the alliance and gift my main the GGCs so my main could get them.
    Did I say that MMX should be stripped of anything?
    NO

    Why are you so defensive of MMX? That is odd. I even stated that:
    "To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units."

    Whether you want hardcore evidence or not, it happens. My point is that no matter whom is the person/alliance, it happens and that events like this. I don't need evidence to have assumptions that these types of issue happen. I only need evidence if I am seeking to levy a punishment, which I have not requested nor inferred my good sir/ma'am.

    I am only pointing out that these types of events will generate this type of activity and thus should not be utilized by Kabam.

    As for MMX, I hope they didn't use fraudulent units from CC fraud. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they were (even it was unknown to them). THey may have paid a service to simply login and gift. They may not know the validity of those units. However, it is events like this that will destroy the spirit of the community and cause further degradation on the player base's trust of the top tier teams and Kabam.

    It is sad, but the court of public opinion is always one that will be hard to fight. And unfortunately, you do not need hardcore evidence to sway that opinion. I can say that in my personal experience, it has happened in other games and most likely happened in this event. Even if it wasn't MMX, it most likely happened with a team that came in the top 30. Events like this should not exist.
    Where was I defensive of MMX? I specifically stated that if they were found to have known about fraudulent transactions they should have the title stripped and even possibly banned. You could take my post and remove the name MMX and replace it with anyone who came in first place and it would be the same.

    Like I said the problem is not if fraudulent CCs were used but if it can be shown that they knew they were being used. without being able to prove intent it is hard to punish someone. you are correct about the count of public opinion, it is a terrible thing.
    Seriously? You have to ask LMAO:
    "The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart."

    It is in the first sentence, and then you give points that they didn't violate any "rules" under the assumption that all accounts that they brought on to spend had legitimate units. There is far more reasonable suspension of low level accounts that will NEVER receive rewards for the event jumping in an gifting several thousands/tens of thousands of units. Not to mention that not many MMX were in the top 200 of the solo event. When you look at the numbers put up to acquire first, you know that something that was not 100 kosher was being done.

    But yet again, I didn't directly bring up MMX, you did. And to think everything was done 100% legitimately is foolish at best. There is more reason to suspect the activity than there is to think that each member had 4-5 F2P accounts that they grinded arena all year for an event we/they didn't know about until before the event was announced.

    However, that is for Kabam to research and figure out and if suspicions are proven factual, for Kabam to punish. However, Kabam should be 100% transparent with any investigation and what happened after they come down with a punishment based on said facts. If anything, it is needed to improve the trust of the community.
    yes, I have to asked. I did not assume anything. I never stated absolutely any rules violations happened or not, with the exception of the fact that bringing in someone some to your alliance to gift in and of itself is not a rules violation, then constructed a flowchart to see where violations could be. Please read more carefully. Again I only mentioned the alliance name because they were the top winners, everything I stated could be replaced with whoever happen to be in the top seat. That you cannot see that speaks more about your motivations than mine. I never stated everything was done on the up and up, I dont make that assumption, but the fact is you cannot just punish people because other people committed fraud without their knowledge, unless you can prove it was with their knowledge. You can suspect all you want, but that will not raise the the level needed for punishment.
    And how many people will join an alliance to donate several thousands of units and not have rights to the awards for top placement? How many free accounts can 30 people grind to generate enough units to dominate an event that had very few in the top 200, let alone in the top 10? If the top 2 spent $70,000 each and 126 (Seatin's placement) was $3500. You would have to dominate the top 20-30 spots with most being at 1-10... Which we know it was not done.

    The sheer amount of manual grinding of units on secondary accounts is highly unlikely, as they would have the time to do it on their mains. It is hard to believe they saved up for a year on secondary and tertiary accounts for an event they knew nothing about a week or two prior to the event. I find it extremely hard to believe that random people would join and donate to the alliance with no donation back (as more members would be in the top 20-30 and are not), so this points it was 1-way donations. Who would donate 1000's of units for free?

    And if it was free accounts with 1000 units and done 100% legitimately, how many accounts would have to have been used? We know the volume of units for 2nd place and data to see what is would have taken. I see manpower the sole lack of ability to manually donate the level of units via auxiliary accounts. The only logical assumption is purchasing units from a service. Buying units/items from a 3rd party is against the rules, it is against ToS... even if it was Credit Card fraud or not, as it could also be done threw bots. However, it is safer to assume that the service they used did conduct in CC Fraud or Bots (as this is almost always the case).

    Not to mention that even if it was within the "rule" it was an exploit.
    You seem to be under the impression that the gifting event requires it from the members of the alliance that they cannot legally rotate in others to gift outside of this, atleast that is what this entire post seems to be about.

    As for buying units/items from 3rd party, that is a hard one to crack there, as did they buy units/items or time, as some people have claimed to get past it. Other than that you seem ready to convict mainly on circumstantial evidence.
    No, I said Kabam should conduct an investigation behind the event and if the suspicions be accurate on any alliance (even Asgrd) in a transparent method.

    How many members would MMX have to rotate? Where were these accounts from? How did these accounts acquire their units? It is obvious that something was not right. The facts do not add up to show that the rotating was not 100% legitimate accounts, and the amount of time to grind the units legitimately is impossible for rotating members.

    If the members were not from the alliance, where were they from? Did other alliances team up just to beat Asgard? I hardly doubt that, as it would hurt their main alliance. Why would you help another alliance you are against in the Platinum and up brackets? It makes no sense.

    The only thin that makes sense is that accounts were brought on the ranks for gifting 1-way only. Why would anyone (and there would have to be more than 1) do that? Especially if the person got no benefit from the donation? You cannot be that ignorant of they facts that it points to unit services lol.

    I am providing examples on how it could be done illegitimately. You have not provided any evidence that they could do it legitimately with grinding or using alt accounts. Your evidence would equally be speculation and assumptions. However, there is weight to assumption of a unit/item service that have been known to have been used in the past than it was done in all fairness. Just saying... if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck.... It is most likely a duck.

    I don't have to prove anything to you or give you evidence. That is more for Kabam. As stated, this hurts their game and the future state of trust if it was bot services. It can also hurt their profits if the units were paid for with Credit Card Fraud.

    Again, that is up for Kabam to investigate. All I stated was that these events shouldn't exist. I am more suggesting what should be done in the future and offering solutions. You seem to be the one that wants to solely look at MMX and making excuses.
  • LormifLormif Posts: 7,365 ★★★★★

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Lormif said:

    Donnymeij said:

    The people at the top who are hurt by this knew what the rules were.
    And by spending thousand of dollars on digital (worthless??) currency they accepted these rules, and the flaws that come with them. If you looked at the rules you knew they were exploidable, if you still decide to spend on it to get the highest possible prestige in the game. Then that is on you, and you alone.
    If you do not agree with exploidable rules, don't spend on it.
    If they do not make money of of this event they will change it.
    But as long as money is made, why change it?
    It is their right to want to make as much money as they want, and as long as people 'agree' with it by spending. Why change?

    Here is the problem with your statement, it assumes that the funds used were legitimately spent. There have been issues with the gifting badge and credit card fraud. This isn’t something new to mobile gaming. To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units.

    I know personally of scams using “currency manipulation” in other games. These kind of scams exist. In one game, I was in the top alliance. I was told of a Russian Player that would charge 50% of the funds to acquire a bundle (ie $50 instead of $100). I was told that the price in Ruples to USD exchanged to a point that the player would be able to buy the units. However, you needed a secondary verification of a Facebook account in order to monitor when they logged on your account and so they didn’t hijack your account.

    I immediately questioned the process. It was obvious that the person was not trustworthy, as I would have to jump through hoops to make sure that they didn’t steal my account. I never used the “service”, but I learned of the dark side of mobile gaming. It would only stand to reason that similar tactics are employed on MCOC.

    Then you have bots that farm units/online currency and those accounts are sold at a fraction of the price. Bots are against TOS.

    What you are saying is because exploits exist people shouldn’t participate in an event. You can equally say that if bots exist in the arena, people shouldn’t grind for a champion. Have you ever spent 3 Days personally grinding an event? I have. I spent several days to grind champs over the past 4.5 years.

    Now what of those that grinned for a featured champ only to come up short due to a person that used a bot? Should they just not try and grind. What of those individuals that spent on the event not expecting to be in the #1 in the solo gifting awards? What if they wanted to be in the top 300 and might have been knocked out by 10-15 people that might of used shady units?

    I am not accusing any single person, but it is naive to think that these instances do not happen. While Kabam does make money on these events, these events will bring out those that will use them. It is a ethical matter of the funds generated. Honest players having to compete against those that will use services is not ethical. It isn’t ethical for the fair sportsmanship in the game, nor the grandma attached to a credit card that was used purchase units (which scammers can just “hire” an account using a stolen Credit Card on these gifting events).

    Kabam is hurt when the Credit Card holder disputes the funds and the company charges back the funds. So, it is not an ideal scenario for any one. Events that pit honest and dishonest in spending should not exist (period). Kabam has little control in this, as they cannot 100% stop credit card fraud, but having events like this will incentivize those that will use these methods.

    It would be extremely silly to think that every unit purchased during the gifting event was 100% legit and honest. People have a right to be angry, but we have to be realistic in our expectations from Kabam. We can only look forward to future events and hope Kabam will stick to events that promote as much fairness as possible and through as much ethical means as possible.
    The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart.

    1) is rotating players in to gift units in violation of the rules:
    no
    2) is there evidence that the people rotated in were using fraudulent CC's?
    not by anyone in the community, only Kabam knows this
    3) Even if kabam determined fraudulent CCs were used is there any evidence that MMX knew about that part of that?

    This last part is key If you cannot prove that MMX knew about any fraud, and their method was within the rules it is hard to take their rewards away, if they can prove it they should strip the rewards and maybe even ban them, but that will be a tough road.

    If what they did was morally right though I would have to pose a question, if you had 200k to waste on a game, but your alliance could not send you 200k of gifts back to you, how would you go about the event? I dont know about you but I would use an alt that can gift during the event put them in the alliance and gift my main the GGCs so my main could get them.
    Did I say that MMX should be stripped of anything?
    NO

    Why are you so defensive of MMX? That is odd. I even stated that:
    "To think that every single person at the top of these lists spent 100% on the units acquired is silly.

    This is not to say that everyone in the lists bought shady units."

    Whether you want hardcore evidence or not, it happens. My point is that no matter whom is the person/alliance, it happens and that events like this. I don't need evidence to have assumptions that these types of issue happen. I only need evidence if I am seeking to levy a punishment, which I have not requested nor inferred my good sir/ma'am.

    I am only pointing out that these types of events will generate this type of activity and thus should not be utilized by Kabam.

    As for MMX, I hope they didn't use fraudulent units from CC fraud. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they were (even it was unknown to them). THey may have paid a service to simply login and gift. They may not know the validity of those units. However, it is events like this that will destroy the spirit of the community and cause further degradation on the player base's trust of the top tier teams and Kabam.

    It is sad, but the court of public opinion is always one that will be hard to fight. And unfortunately, you do not need hardcore evidence to sway that opinion. I can say that in my personal experience, it has happened in other games and most likely happened in this event. Even if it wasn't MMX, it most likely happened with a team that came in the top 30. Events like this should not exist.
    Where was I defensive of MMX? I specifically stated that if they were found to have known about fraudulent transactions they should have the title stripped and even possibly banned. You could take my post and remove the name MMX and replace it with anyone who came in first place and it would be the same.

    Like I said the problem is not if fraudulent CCs were used but if it can be shown that they knew they were being used. without being able to prove intent it is hard to punish someone. you are correct about the count of public opinion, it is a terrible thing.
    Seriously? You have to ask LMAO:
    "The problem is all anyone has on all sides is assumptions with the exception of if what MMX did was on its face a violation of the rules, which in short so you need to have a little flow chart."

    It is in the first sentence, and then you give points that they didn't violate any "rules" under the assumption that all accounts that they brought on to spend had legitimate units. There is far more reasonable suspension of low level accounts that will NEVER receive rewards for the event jumping in an gifting several thousands/tens of thousands of units. Not to mention that not many MMX were in the top 200 of the solo event. When you look at the numbers put up to acquire first, you know that something that was not 100 kosher was being done.

    But yet again, I didn't directly bring up MMX, you did. And to think everything was done 100% legitimately is foolish at best. There is more reason to suspect the activity than there is to think that each member had 4-5 F2P accounts that they grinded arena all year for an event we/they didn't know about until before the event was announced.

    However, that is for Kabam to research and figure out and if suspicions are proven factual, for Kabam to punish. However, Kabam should be 100% transparent with any investigation and what happened after they come down with a punishment based on said facts. If anything, it is needed to improve the trust of the community.
    yes, I have to asked. I did not assume anything. I never stated absolutely any rules violations happened or not, with the exception of the fact that bringing in someone some to your alliance to gift in and of itself is not a rules violation, then constructed a flowchart to see where violations could be. Please read more carefully. Again I only mentioned the alliance name because they were the top winners, everything I stated could be replaced with whoever happen to be in the top seat. That you cannot see that speaks more about your motivations than mine. I never stated everything was done on the up and up, I dont make that assumption, but the fact is you cannot just punish people because other people committed fraud without their knowledge, unless you can prove it was with their knowledge. You can suspect all you want, but that will not raise the the level needed for punishment.
    And how many people will join an alliance to donate several thousands of units and not have rights to the awards for top placement? How many free accounts can 30 people grind to generate enough units to dominate an event that had very few in the top 200, let alone in the top 10? If the top 2 spent $70,000 each and 126 (Seatin's placement) was $3500. You would have to dominate the top 20-30 spots with most being at 1-10... Which we know it was not done.

    The sheer amount of manual grinding of units on secondary accounts is highly unlikely, as they would have the time to do it on their mains. It is hard to believe they saved up for a year on secondary and tertiary accounts for an event they knew nothing about a week or two prior to the event. I find it extremely hard to believe that random people would join and donate to the alliance with no donation back (as more members would be in the top 20-30 and are not), so this points it was 1-way donations. Who would donate 1000's of units for free?

    And if it was free accounts with 1000 units and done 100% legitimately, how many accounts would have to have been used? We know the volume of units for 2nd place and data to see what is would have taken. I see manpower the sole lack of ability to manually donate the level of units via auxiliary accounts. The only logical assumption is purchasing units from a service. Buying units/items from a 3rd party is against the rules, it is against ToS... even if it was Credit Card fraud or not, as it could also be done threw bots. However, it is safer to assume that the service they used did conduct in CC Fraud or Bots (as this is almost always the case).

    Not to mention that even if it was within the "rule" it was an exploit.
    You seem to be under the impression that the gifting event requires it from the members of the alliance that they cannot legally rotate in others to gift outside of this, atleast that is what this entire post seems to be about.

    As for buying units/items from 3rd party, that is a hard one to crack there, as did they buy units/items or time, as some people have claimed to get past it. Other than that you seem ready to convict mainly on circumstantial evidence.
    No, I said Kabam should conduct an investigation behind the event and if the suspicions be accurate on any alliance (even Asgrd) in a transparent method.

    How many members would MMX have to rotate? Where were these accounts from? How did these accounts acquire their units? It is obvious that something was not right. The facts do not add up to show that the rotating was not 100% legitimate accounts, and the amount of time to grind the units legitimately is impossible for rotating members.

    If the members were not from the alliance, where were they from? Did other alliances team up just to beat Asgard? I hardly doubt that, as it would hurt their main alliance. Why would you help another alliance you are against in the Platinum and up brackets? It makes no sense.

    The only thin that makes sense is that accounts were brought on the ranks for gifting 1-way only. Why would anyone (and there would have to be more than 1) do that? Especially if the person got no benefit from the donation? You cannot be that ignorant of they facts that it points to unit services lol.
    The only question of yours in all that which makes sense is "how did they acquire the units *and did they know if any were fraudulent*". Where the accounts came from does not matter.
  • Midknight007Midknight007 Posts: 725 ★★★
    edited January 2020
    @Lormif And regardless of my opinions, I never called for banning or punishment of any person or alliance. I only stated that is up to Kabam to resolve those negative impressions (and rightfully so). The usage of bots alone is enough to cause more distrust in Arenas, though most of the arenas I have seen were the 4* featured which has minimal impact on the pool and mainly helps the pool. However, those same bots could be employed for a 5* featured champ with high prestige. Just saying... It will hurt in the end if not addressed by Kabam.
  • Panchulon21Panchulon21 Posts: 2,368 ★★★★★
    I honestly don’t care what happened at the top. I like the gifting event, it gives out great resources and allows you to have fun with your alliance outside of the normal events. My alliance hit a million (legitimately) even if alliances didnt cheat, I didn’t expect to land any higher than 1-5%.

    The cheating is definitely wrong, but that’s something kabam has 11.5 months to fix before the next one. Don’t punish us for the rotten top 3.
  • DL864DL864 Posts: 825 ★★★
    I think the event was outstanding. The rewards were great and it was really fun for our ally. The problem is the same ally who everybody knows found a way to cheat like always and until kabam does something drastic it will continue to happen. I hope they bring it back next year and put something like you have to be in the ally the entire event to get rewards. Also I do hope they investigate and take away rewards that were earned if there was fraud involved.
  • CoatHang3rCoatHang3r Posts: 4,813 ★★★★★
    Your continuous arguments from ignorance or incredulity are tiring.

    “You would have to dominate the top 20-30 spots with most being at 1-10...”
    Not at all, players could spread out the money spent on multiple alts gifting their main; this boosts multiple accounts players can then use later on.

    “Who would donate 1000's of units for free?”
    An alt(s) of an account who cbb with the logistics of thousands of dollars worth of transactions with multiple people.

    FYI I’ve seen one person (in their free time) earn ~37k units in the span of a year using alts.
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