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Lose Yourself to the Abyss!

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  • Options
    SiliyoSiliyo Posts: 1,379 ★★★★★
    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    R3 5* can’t do LOL, why should they be able to do AOL?
    Since you asked. When LOL came out the best of the best was a r3 5 star. Right now that would be the equivalent of a maxed out 5 star. Soon aftrer that act 5.4 came out and we received acces to r4 5 stars. Which allowed us to be able to one shot fights in LOL due to longer enrage timers. So to keep in line with this it would only be fair to make a r3 6 stars capable of one shotting Abyss champions. Right now not even a r4 6 star which doesn't even exist can do that at the moment.

    So I would like to keep the same thing in terms of power requirements, this is the reason why the rewards aren't justified at the moment.
    You do realize there were r4 champs before 5.4?
    Also there’s a good few champs who could probably one shot abyss champs due to cheese or just high damage (please no limber)
    Most people did their initial run of LOL with a maxed 4 star like myself. So either way my point still stands. Also, if you really think there's a champion that exists with this damage cap that can take out a 4 to 6 million champion in less than 240 hits I'm wasting my time responding because you don't understand this game on a basic level.
    So your admitting you had to use revives to do your initial run with a champ that has equivalent power rating to an r3 5* but an r3 5* should be able to solo AOL fights which should be harder that LOL fights? This makes absolutely no sense, you shouldn’t be able to use r3 5* to earn r3 6* rewards.
    Are you insinuating that AOL champions should NOT be soloed? If you’ve got the skills to pay the bills, AND the patience, a r3 5* should be able to solo AOL fights. If you disagree, then you’re in favor of cheap cash grab methods as seen in the hit cap for AOL.
  • Options
    TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    R3 5* can’t do LOL, why should they be able to do AOL?
    Since you asked. When LOL came out the best of the best was a r3 5 star. Right now that would be the equivalent of a maxed out 5 star. Soon aftrer that act 5.4 came out and we received acces to r4 5 stars. Which allowed us to be able to one shot fights in LOL due to longer enrage timers. So to keep in line with this it would only be fair to make a r3 6 stars capable of one shotting Abyss champions. Right now not even a r4 6 star which doesn't even exist can do that at the moment.

    So I would like to keep the same thing in terms of power requirements, this is the reason why the rewards aren't justified at the moment.
    You do realize there were r4 champs before 5.4?
    Also there’s a good few champs who could probably one shot abyss champs due to cheese or just high damage (please no limber)
    Most people did their initial run of LOL with a maxed 4 star like myself. So either way my point still stands. Also, if you really think there's a champion that exists with this damage cap that can take out a 4 to 6 million champion in less than 240 hits I'm wasting my time responding because you don't understand this game on a basic level.
    So your admitting you had to use revives to do your initial run with a champ that has equivalent power rating to an r3 5* but an r3 5* should be able to solo AOL fights which should be harder that LOL fights? This makes absolutely no sense, you shouldn’t be able to use r3 5* to earn r3 6* rewards.
    I never said that you should be able to one shot an Abyss fight with a r3 5 star. What are you talking about? Don't change my argument to fit your narrative. You're not completing Abyss anyways in any compacity.
  • Options
    JadedJaded Posts: 5,476 ★★★★★
    CoatHang3r said:

    Jaded said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    R3 5* can’t do LOL, why should they be able to do AOL?
    Since you asked. When LOL came out the best of the best was a r3 5 star. Right now that would be the equivalent of a maxed out 5 star. Soon aftrer that act 5.4 came out and we received acces to r4 5 stars. Which allowed us to be able to one shot fights in LOL due to longer enrage timers. So to keep in line with this it would only be fair to make a r3 6 stars capable of one shotting Abyss champions. Right now not even a r4 6 star which doesn't even exist can do that at the moment.

    So I would like to keep the same thing in terms of power requirements, this is the reason why the rewards aren't justified at the moment.
    You do realize there were r4 champs before 5.4?
    Also there’s a good few champs who could probably one shot abyss champs due to cheese or just high damage (please no limber)
    Most people did their initial run of LOL with a maxed 4 star like myself. So either way my point still stands. Also, if you really think there's a champion that exists with this damage cap that can take out a 4 to 6 million champion in less than 240 hits I'm wasting my time responding because you don't understand this game on a basic level.
    And 4* r5 couldn’t one shot fights while in this case a good few of the fights seems they could be one shot by a 5* r5 such as domino archangel human torch(vs mystic) doctor voodoo will be able to cheese at least 2 of the fights pretty much all of the easy path should be able to 1 shot as they have 2-2.7mil health unless there’s a node increasing health that we haven’t seen yet I doubt it as wasn’t the case in lol
    Also I’ll say suicides will be insanely useful for this content
    I don’t agree with the hit limit though
    Not to interject into the argument but I believe there is still a 300% health/attack missing from the videos seatin is posting. Which would add about another million health or so on what we have been shown.
    That thought would be the result of major brain fart and logic fail. Ex. champions (in LoL) are base stats, their health and attack are unmodified.


    Champion boost nodes are not present in RoL nor LoL; and as previously mentioned would break the content.
    I was just basing it off of word of mouth. I was unsure.
  • Options
    SiliyoSiliyo Posts: 1,379 ★★★★★
    edited January 2020
    Just so you guys have an understanding about how ridiculous the hit count in the Abyss is: I did a test with my 5/65 sig 200 SL against Red Hulk using a regular survival synergy team (Heimdall, Thor Rag, Proxima, Angela) and I was able to take down 1.5million health in about 225 hits. 225. The hit cap for 5/65s and R2 6*s in AOL are 240.

    I would also like to remind you that Star Lord’s attack increases as his combo increases, yet despite all of that SL can only take down 1.5 million health in just under 240 hits. That means all other non ramp up champions will suffer in the hands of the Abyss. If you think AOL is a cash grab, unit grab, an experience that’s suppose to frustrate and annoy you; NOT an experience that rewards skill, or provides something challenging and fun, then you are right - the Abyss is just that and it is sad to see that the devs and mods would stoop low enough to release something like this.
  • Options
    Markjv81Markjv81 Posts: 1,003 ★★★★
    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    R3 5* can’t do LOL, why should they be able to do AOL?
    Since you asked. When LOL came out the best of the best was a r3 5 star. Right now that would be the equivalent of a maxed out 5 star. Soon aftrer that act 5.4 came out and we received acces to r4 5 stars. Which allowed us to be able to one shot fights in LOL due to longer enrage timers. So to keep in line with this it would only be fair to make a r3 6 stars capable of one shotting Abyss champions. Right now not even a r4 6 star which doesn't even exist can do that at the moment.

    So I would like to keep the same thing in terms of power requirements, this is the reason why the rewards aren't justified at the moment.
    You do realize there were r4 champs before 5.4?
    Also there’s a good few champs who could probably one shot abyss champs due to cheese or just high damage (please no limber)
    Most people did their initial run of LOL with a maxed 4 star like myself. So either way my point still stands. Also, if you really think there's a champion that exists with this damage cap that can take out a 4 to 6 million champion in less than 240 hits I'm wasting my time responding because you don't understand this game on a basic level.
    So your admitting you had to use revives to do your initial run with a champ that has equivalent power rating to an r3 5* but an r3 5* should be able to solo AOL fights which should be harder that LOL fights? This makes absolutely no sense, you shouldn’t be able to use r3 5* to earn r3 6* rewards.
    I never said that you should be able to one shot an Abyss fight with a r3 5 star. What are you talking about? Don't change my argument to fit your narrative. You're not completing Abyss anyways in any compacity.
    You literally said an r3 5 should be able to complete a fight without reviving.
  • Options
    Markjv81Markjv81 Posts: 1,003 ★★★★
    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    See right here.....
  • Options
    TehsigzorzTehsigzorz Posts: 1,233 ★★★★
    xNig said:

    Just hold the feedback until the actual content is out.

    Who knows, there might be noded Dash/Bleed/Poison/Stun Vulnerability on the fights if certain actions are performed, eg “5 seconds after the attacker performs an intercept, the defender takes 200% more damage if there is a bleed debuff active.” 🤷🏻‍♂️

    One can only hope
  • Options
    H3t3rH3t3r Posts: 2,879 Guardian
    I wonder if archangel would work very well here? As theres no limber node and if im not mistaken you can get around 65 heavys off before the defender goes unstoppable
  • Options
    Mhd20034Mhd20034 Posts: 159 ★
    H3t3r said:

    I wonder if archangel would work very well here? As theres no limber node and if im not mistaken you can get around 65 heavys off before the defender goes unstoppable

    There is also caiw and colossus
  • Options
    Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 11,596 ★★★★★
    TheTalents said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    R3 5* can’t do LOL, why should they be able to do AOL?
    Since you asked. When LOL came out the best of the best was a r3 5 star. Right now that would be the equivalent of a maxed out 5 star. Soon aftrer that act 5.4 came out and we received acces to r4 5 stars. Which allowed us to be able to one shot fights in LOL due to longer enrage timers. So to keep in line with this it would only be fair to make a r3 6 stars capable of one shotting Abyss champions. Right now not even a r4 6 star which doesn't even exist can do that at the moment.

    So I would like to keep the same thing in terms of power requirements, this is the reason why the rewards aren't justified at the moment.
    You do realize there were r4 champs before 5.4?
    Also there’s a good few champs who could probably one shot abyss champs due to cheese or just high damage (please no limber)
    Most people did their initial run of LOL with a maxed 4 star like myself. So either way my point still stands. Also, if you really think there's a champion that exists with this damage cap that can take out a 4 to 6 million champion in less than 240 hits I'm wasting my time responding because you don't understand this game on a basic level.
    No, most did it with their first rank 4 5* from exploration of act 4
  • Options
    xNigxNig Posts: 7,250 ★★★★★
    I did my first run through of LOL with a 5* R4 SL.

    Alot of my then alliance mates ran through the first run with a team of maxed out 4*s and team revives (which was more cost efficient than individual revives). Cost them about 2-3k units I think (was 2-3 years back. can't remember exactly how much).
  • Options
    TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    R3 5* can’t do LOL, why should they be able to do AOL?
    Since you asked. When LOL came out the best of the best was a r3 5 star. Right now that would be the equivalent of a maxed out 5 star. Soon aftrer that act 5.4 came out and we received acces to r4 5 stars. Which allowed us to be able to one shot fights in LOL due to longer enrage timers. So to keep in line with this it would only be fair to make a r3 6 stars capable of one shotting Abyss champions. Right now not even a r4 6 star which doesn't even exist can do that at the moment.

    So I would like to keep the same thing in terms of power requirements, this is the reason why the rewards aren't justified at the moment.
    You do realize there were r4 champs before 5.4?
    Also there’s a good few champs who could probably one shot abyss champs due to cheese or just high damage (please no limber)
    Most people did their initial run of LOL with a maxed 4 star like myself. So either way my point still stands. Also, if you really think there's a champion that exists with this damage cap that can take out a 4 to 6 million champion in less than 240 hits I'm wasting my time responding because you don't understand this game on a basic level.
    So your admitting you had to use revives to do your initial run with a champ that has equivalent power rating to an r3 5* but an r3 5* should be able to solo AOL fights which should be harder that LOL fights? This makes absolutely no sense, you shouldn’t be able to use r3 5* to earn r3 6* rewards.
    I never said that you should be able to one shot an Abyss fight with a r3 5 star. What are you talking about
    Markjv81 said:


    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    See right here.....
    Oh I mean to say r3 6 stars. 5 stars wouldn't make any sense based on the context of what I saying. So you're disagreeing with an opinion that I don't even have.
  • Options
    TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    xNig said:

    Just hold the feedback until the actual content is out.

    Who knows, there might be noded Dash/Bleed/Poison/Stun Vulnerability on the fights if certain actions are performed, eg “5 seconds after the attacker performs an intercept, the defender takes 200% more damage if there is a bleed debuff active.” 🤷🏻‍♂️

    We both know thats not going to happen but I respect your opinion on what until the content arrives. I just disagree with that because theres nothing about a locked camera that can be made better once the content comes out and a hit count. Those you don't need to see the content to understand.
  • Options
    TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Lvernon15 said:

    TheTalents said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    R3 5* can’t do LOL, why should they be able to do AOL?
    Since you asked. When LOL came out the best of the best was a r3 5 star. Right now that would be the equivalent of a maxed out 5 star. Soon aftrer that act 5.4 came out and we received acces to r4 5 stars. Which allowed us to be able to one shot fights in LOL due to longer enrage timers. So to keep in line with this it would only be fair to make a r3 6 stars capable of one shotting Abyss champions. Right now not even a r4 6 star which doesn't even exist can do that at the moment.

    So I would like to keep the same thing in terms of power requirements, this is the reason why the rewards aren't justified at the moment.
    You do realize there were r4 champs before 5.4?
    Also there’s a good few champs who could probably one shot abyss champs due to cheese or just high damage (please no limber)
    Most people did their initial run of LOL with a maxed 4 star like myself. So either way my point still stands. Also, if you really think there's a champion that exists with this damage cap that can take out a 4 to 6 million champion in less than 240 hits I'm wasting my time responding because you don't understand this game on a basic level.
    No, most did it with their first rank 4 5* from exploration of act 4
    No they didn't. Please got a 5 star basic crystal once every 3 to 4 months at that time and you not only had to get lucky to get SL, you also had to dup him as well. So you're completely wrong that most people did their initial run with SL. Very few and I mean very few people were rng lucky enough to get him and dup him.
  • Options
    Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 11,596 ★★★★★
    TheTalents said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    TheTalents said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    R3 5* can’t do LOL, why should they be able to do AOL?
    Since you asked. When LOL came out the best of the best was a r3 5 star. Right now that would be the equivalent of a maxed out 5 star. Soon aftrer that act 5.4 came out and we received acces to r4 5 stars. Which allowed us to be able to one shot fights in LOL due to longer enrage timers. So to keep in line with this it would only be fair to make a r3 6 stars capable of one shotting Abyss champions. Right now not even a r4 6 star which doesn't even exist can do that at the moment.

    So I would like to keep the same thing in terms of power requirements, this is the reason why the rewards aren't justified at the moment.
    You do realize there were r4 champs before 5.4?
    Also there’s a good few champs who could probably one shot abyss champs due to cheese or just high damage (please no limber)
    Most people did their initial run of LOL with a maxed 4 star like myself. So either way my point still stands. Also, if you really think there's a champion that exists with this damage cap that can take out a 4 to 6 million champion in less than 240 hits I'm wasting my time responding because you don't understand this game on a basic level.
    No, most did it with their first rank 4 5* from exploration of act 4
    No they didn't. Please got a 5 star basic crystal once every 3 to 4 months at that time and you not only had to get lucky to get SL, you also had to dup him as well. So you're completely wrong that most people did their initial run with SL. Very few and I mean very few people were rng lucky enough to get him and dup him.
    I never said star lord, many people did their first clear with a duped storm or captain marvel, remember there were only 12 5 stars in the crystal back then so dupes weren’t all that rare
  • Options
    TheTalentsTheTalents Posts: 2,254 ★★★★★
    Lvernon15 said:

    TheTalents said:

    Lvernon15 said:

    TheTalents said:

    Agentk said:

    TheTalents said:

    Markjv81 said:

    TheTalents said:

    I think the damage cap is just petty but there are far more bigger concerns.
    The hit count for the type of health pools involved is just way too low. A Descent number for those health pools would be at least 300 hits per r2 6 star so you can do some type of real damage. R3 5 stars should should basically be able to complete the match without reviving so I'm think 400 hits. Using 4 or 5 revives when you've done nothing wrong to complete a fight is just not fun.

    R3 5* can’t do LOL, why should they be able to do AOL?
    Since you asked. When LOL came out the best of the best was a r3 5 star. Right now that would be the equivalent of a maxed out 5 star. Soon aftrer that act 5.4 came out and we received acces to r4 5 stars. Which allowed us to be able to one shot fights in LOL due to longer enrage timers. So to keep in line with this it would only be fair to make a r3 6 stars capable of one shotting Abyss champions. Right now not even a r4 6 star which doesn't even exist can do that at the moment.

    So I would like to keep the same thing in terms of power requirements, this is the reason why the rewards aren't justified at the moment.
    You do realize there were r4 champs before 5.4?
    Also there’s a good few champs who could probably one shot abyss champs due to cheese or just high damage (please no limber)
    Most people did their initial run of LOL with a maxed 4 star like myself. So either way my point still stands. Also, if you really think there's a champion that exists with this damage cap that can take out a 4 to 6 million champion in less than 240 hits I'm wasting my time responding because you don't understand this game on a basic level.
    No, most did it with their first rank 4 5* from exploration of act 4
    No they didn't. Please got a 5 star basic crystal once every 3 to 4 months at that time and you not only had to get lucky to get SL, you also had to dup him as well. So you're completely wrong that most people did their initial run with SL. Very few and I mean very few people were rng lucky enough to get him and dup him.
    I never said star lord, many people did their first clear with a duped storm or captain marvel, remember there were only 12 5 stars in the crystal back then so dupes weren’t all that rare
    you're right bro. Thanks for clearing that up. Can't believe that was 3 years ago.
  • Options
    HyzerBombHyzerBomb Posts: 80 ★
    edited January 2020
    When is abyss going live?

    Edit: my bad I just read it again. I thought original date was 15th and now I see it's the 22nd
  • Options
    DarkestDestroyerDarkestDestroyer Posts: 2,875 ★★★★★
    The whole damage cap is just stupid.

    Champs are realised with certain abilities and ways to be played, like Proxima, SL, Guli 2099 etc were born for this, they were created with these abilities and this, along with LOL are the only 2 places which they could be unleashed to their full potential...

    And then you go all lazy and shove a damage cap on it, I mean they are gonna he in the millions of health, with ridiculous nodes, why not just allow them to be used as they were created to be used?
  • Options
    FrostyFrosty Posts: 485 ★★★
    TheTalents said:

    xNig said:

    Just hold the feedback until the actual content is out.

    Who knows, there might be noded Dash/Bleed/Poison/Stun Vulnerability on the fights if certain actions are performed, eg “5 seconds after the attacker performs an intercept, the defender takes 200% more damage if there is a bleed debuff active.” 🤷🏻‍♂️

    We both know thats not going to happen but I respect your opinion on what until the content arrives. I just disagree with that because theres nothing about a locked camera that can be made better once the content comes out and a hit count. Those you don't need to see the content to understand.
    While i find a locked camera is lazy unlocking it won't help with champ selection. If its anything like LOL all the inner paths were ambushes so you wouldn't know whos on what path either way. Unlocking the camera would only make planning you routes which defeats the purpose of the maze-like style kabam said they wanted
  • Options
    Master3418Master3418 Posts: 218 ★
    DNA3000 said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    Haji_Saab said:

    I expected nothing less ... when LOL was released I didn’t even touch for a long time ... that’s how this is gonna go

    Only thing is that they want to annoy their players with camera lock because that is all that it achieves

    The goal is never to Annoy our players. This is an ongoing theme, and whether somebody likes it or not, it adds to the atmosphere of the Labyrinth and Abyss. It's a Maze, and it's supposed to be hard to find your way around.
    I'm not going to argue difficulty or rewards: this is supposed to be the absolute highest difficulty thing in the game, and I personally understand and are willing to go along with the notion of making content that might be essentially impossible to complete for most players for very long periods of time. That's what makes it the absolute highest difficulty content in the game: not everyone is going to be able to do it without essentially outleveling it.

    But I think the camera lock is still nonsensical, and atmospherics is not a sufficiently good reason to do it. We have the same issue we had with alliance war. The developers wanted "counterplay" but they also wanted "surprise" and they were not initially willing to accept those two were contradictory. If you surprise the player, they cannot prepare. That is the definition of taking counterplay away. The developers eventually "compromised" by making every path save one visible in AW, which was an admission that the idea you could have both counterplay and surprise on the same node was nonsensical.

    Here, we have the absolute hardest difficulty content in the game, explicitly intended to be challenging no matter what kind of roster the player has, and yet the game is trying to also surprise them by not letting them see the fights they are going to have to fight or the options they have for attempting a completion run. That's pointless: essentially the first time anyone encounters a fight it will be purely blind luck as to what they bring. In effect, the first fight is wasted: no real strategic counterplay is possible.

    That might be worth it if there was any benefit to surprising the player. But if the fights are designed to be so strong that even careful preparation might not be enough, then unless the devs completely missed the mark that surprise will have zero entertainment value, as the fight is essentially lost from the start.

    And all of this is largely meaningless anyway, because unlike an alliance war map which is different for every alliance for every war, the Abyss map is going to be the same for every player for every attempt, which means the only players that will experience the "atmosphere" of the Abyss are complete idiots who don't download maps and just blindly wander around the absolute hardest content in the game.

    As others have said, maybe this makes sense as an additional challenge for the legend runners. I would be fine with that. But once the legend runs are completed, this feature makes no sense. It runs contrary to the presumptive goal of challenging players' skills and roster because it blinds them to what the challenge even is, and it forces players to find external resources to bypass the feature because the feature is so problematic for completing the challenge that you would have to be galactically stupid to attempt it without those resources.

    The difference between AW and the Abyss is you can't just keep iterating the Abyss over and over again over a dozen version releases of the game because that would become increasingly unfair to players who have to suffer through all those iterations. It would be better if by the time the last legend runner completes the Abyss the dev team decides to change policy on the camera lock.

    Basically, exploration makes sense in content that has interesting things to explore. Exploration makes no sense in content designed to kill you if you don't have the right champs, and also kill you even if you do have the right champs, and every single step in every direction is likely to end your exploration journey with a team wipe anyway.
    im just gna comment on the camera lock.in a maze, u cant see which way the path leads, hence the camera lock is essential to recreate this feeling.
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    Lvernon15Lvernon15 Posts: 11,596 ★★★★★
    Master3418 said:

    DNA3000 said:

    Kabam Miike said:

    Haji_Saab said:

    I expected nothing less ... when LOL was released I didn’t even touch for a long time ... that’s how this is gonna go

    Only thing is that they want to annoy their players with camera lock because that is all that it achieves

    The goal is never to Annoy our players. This is an ongoing theme, and whether somebody likes it or not, it adds to the atmosphere of the Labyrinth and Abyss. It's a Maze, and it's supposed to be hard to find your way around.
    I'm not going to argue difficulty or rewards: this is supposed to be the absolute highest difficulty thing in the game, and I personally understand and are willing to go along with the notion of making content that might be essentially impossible to complete for most players for very long periods of time. That's what makes it the absolute highest difficulty content in the game: not everyone is going to be able to do it without essentially outleveling it.

    But I think the camera lock is still nonsensical, and atmospherics is not a sufficiently good reason to do it. We have the same issue we had with alliance war. The developers wanted "counterplay" but they also wanted "surprise" and they were not initially willing to accept those two were contradictory. If you surprise the player, they cannot prepare. That is the definition of taking counterplay away. The developers eventually "compromised" by making every path save one visible in AW, which was an admission that the idea you could have both counterplay and surprise on the same node was nonsensical.

    Here, we have the absolute hardest difficulty content in the game, explicitly intended to be challenging no matter what kind of roster the player has, and yet the game is trying to also surprise them by not letting them see the fights they are going to have to fight or the options they have for attempting a completion run. That's pointless: essentially the first time anyone encounters a fight it will be purely blind luck as to what they bring. In effect, the first fight is wasted: no real strategic counterplay is possible.

    That might be worth it if there was any benefit to surprising the player. But if the fights are designed to be so strong that even careful preparation might not be enough, then unless the devs completely missed the mark that surprise will have zero entertainment value, as the fight is essentially lost from the start.

    And all of this is largely meaningless anyway, because unlike an alliance war map which is different for every alliance for every war, the Abyss map is going to be the same for every player for every attempt, which means the only players that will experience the "atmosphere" of the Abyss are complete idiots who don't download maps and just blindly wander around the absolute hardest content in the game.

    As others have said, maybe this makes sense as an additional challenge for the legend runners. I would be fine with that. But once the legend runs are completed, this feature makes no sense. It runs contrary to the presumptive goal of challenging players' skills and roster because it blinds them to what the challenge even is, and it forces players to find external resources to bypass the feature because the feature is so problematic for completing the challenge that you would have to be galactically stupid to attempt it without those resources.

    The difference between AW and the Abyss is you can't just keep iterating the Abyss over and over again over a dozen version releases of the game because that would become increasingly unfair to players who have to suffer through all those iterations. It would be better if by the time the last legend runner completes the Abyss the dev team decides to change policy on the camera lock.

    Basically, exploration makes sense in content that has interesting things to explore. Exploration makes no sense in content designed to kill you if you don't have the right champs, and also kill you even if you do have the right champs, and every single step in every direction is likely to end your exploration journey with a team wipe anyway.
    im just gna comment on the camera lock.in a maze, u cant see which way the path leads, hence the camera lock is essential to recreate this feeling.
    But it doesn’t after a month when a map is made
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    Duke_SilverDuke_Silver Posts: 2,421 ★★★★
    Soon
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    gohard123gohard123 Posts: 998 ★★★
    I keep reading the thread title as “Love yourself to the abyss”. From what I’ve seen, the abyss definitely has no love for me.
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    BowTieJohnBowTieJohn Posts: 2,360 ★★★★
    Just a few more days before we start seeing salty videos of gameplay. I feel for those who first enter and take on this content, but appreciate their hard work in advance.
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    jammybstrdjammybstrd Posts: 36 ★
    Imagine powering through ridiculous 6 million health fights, and using tons of revives thanks to the nonsensical hit cap, only to find u have taken a turn into a fight you cannot win with the champions you brought in.

    What is the point of the camera lock, it's not like you can turn around and go back like you can in a real maze, so the 'atmosphere' arguement makes no sense.

    The camera lock and hit cap should be removed ASAP if anybody is actually going to enjoy this content. Bring back enrage timer or whatever
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    RaiserRaiser Posts: 424 ★★
    gohard123 said:

    I keep reading the thread title as “Love yourself to the abyss”. From what I’ve seen, the abyss definitely has no love for me.

    Lol, i just realize that the title is not "love" but lose. This whole decade i read the samw way you read. Lol
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