general thread to comment on rebalances [Merged Threads]

Not sure if i'm blind or not but didn't see a link to comment just the individual champ rebalances. Was wondering if there was 1 combined for discussion purposes.

Comments

Colonaut123

I think I can speak for many people but overall impression to me is: "Is that what we're waiting for after six months and several post-phoning?". It is has been a real let-down. I can be wrong, but I truly wonder if the developers took it serious. Like, Annihilus is not even a buff at all.

Colonaut123

Following the info released what are you guys all doing with your namors?

I think HT changes are good. Just needs that sig ability buff.

Inv woman needed a buff for sure.

Annihilus still won’t be touched. He needs another look

Cull. I never used him anyway but I think that block prof will always be a pain.

Ebony I would like to play as can imagine what it will do for him at this stage
My Namor is going to 5/65. That rebalancing is fine in my book. Others might disagree, but I understand what they did and why they did it. It's not gonna crush the character
Gonna +1 this.

My Namor has been 5/65 sig200 for a month or so now, and since then has gotten me through a good chunk of content with significantly fewer units spent (namely several paths in 6.1-6.2 and a unitless V2 exploration). In my eyes, he’s accomplished the purpose for which I ranked him, and I’d made my peace with the fact that he’d be tuned down.

But it looks like his rebalancing is fairer than I’d expected. I’m not too fussed about the regen decrease, as my main source of regen for Namor came from max WP + suicides while attacking. His increased ramp up time is something I’ll have to see for myself once the update goes live, but on paper it doesn’t seem too drastic a change at all. Pleasantly surprised.

I think that is an issue. Players who ranked him up and completed content with him, can now just regain their resources. In the meanwhile, I wil not have the same advantages in the future. That's why these rebalances should be released much earlier, so players have the least exploited benefit from it.

Shadowstrike

I think I can speak for many people but overall impression to me is: "Is that what we're waiting for after six months and several post-phoning?". It is has been a real let-down. I can be wrong, but I truly wonder if the developers took it serious. Like, Annihilus is not even a buff at all.

I'll agree that on paper, the Annihilus buff doesn't sound as impressive as it could be however I am willing to take it on faith that if after the Buffs go live and we're still not seeing that wow factor that the dev team was pushing for, it'd be a lot easier for them to tweak him up then to tweak him down.

Kalantak

anihilus buff isnt really gonna do anything. sp1 lock on stifle needs longer duration, this will not affect defense but on offense u have chance to gain atleast some form of burst damage on sp2 after sp1. may b make it every sp1 increases stifle duration by 2 seconds. so after few sp1s you have a chance to stack some stifles,reqch sp2 and convert all 10 furies and have some damage for these 18 seconds. these will not make his damage any where near to those Op champs but gives him something to do offensively

RogerRabs

The more I think about this, the more it seems like Kabam is setting precedent for rebalancing that they can then use if a champion becomes too OP.

I bet if you ask the devs they would have loved to have been able to rebalance Blade after he was released.

Colonaut123

I think I can speak for many people but overall impression to me is: "Is that what we're waiting for after six months and several post-phoning?". It is has been a real let-down. I can be wrong, but I truly wonder if the developers took it serious. Like, Annihilus is not even a buff at all.
I'll agree that on paper, the Annihilus buff doesn't sound as impressive as it could be however I am willing to take it on faith that if after the Buffs go live and we're still not seeing that wow factor that the dev team was pushing for, it'd be a lot easier for them to tweak him up then to tweak him down.

Nope, this rework is permanent. Kabam missed a chance.

GroundedWisdom

These aren't meant to be large buffs. Minor tweaks. They've been clear on that since their announcement.

Elad17

OK being a faithful member of this game and having been both F2P and Buying stuff i will say this
Balances are only what we take from them.i don't agree on the re balancing of any champion (Nerf or Buff) but i am willing to give benefit of the doubt with this one as i was not around pre 12.0 so i cannot speak on that . i do however own all champions that are on the re balancing radar and will do my testing. if i find they are worse then i will have the option to sell said champs . and from that point i will become a F2P player once again. the BEST way to have your voice heard is to STOP!!!!! giving them money .

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Colonaut123

These aren't meant to be large buffs. Minor tweaks. They've been clear on that since their announcement.

They did a large rework for Ebony Maw. They should have done the same with Annihilus.

DNA3000

This can be it. Just remember to keep things on topic, because I would welcome a healthy conversation on how you guys feel we should handle rebalances going forward.

I think for the players to understand how this process is working, it is important to understand the data being presented. I posed three questions that I believe are fundamentally important for any player to understand these announcements: without these being clarified there's no way for a player to make reasonable use of the information being used to support the rebalance changes, or really understand what the devs are looking at when making them.

For reference:

Question one: what do you mean by "player skill?"

Question two: why does the data seem to show the same champion with radically different damage output in two different graphs that appear to be described as showing the same thing?

Question three: are we really comparing apples to apples when the data seems to lump together different ranks and tiers of every champion and comparing directly to each other?

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GroundedWisdom

These aren't meant to be large buffs. Minor tweaks. They've been clear on that since their announcement.
They did a large rework for Ebony Maw. They should have done the same with Annihilus.

Define large. It may seem that way, but his extremes were many. He was on the lowest end.

Stellar

Concerning Ebony Maw, one thing could be done to make him a great champions

- transform the flat +x damage per deterioration in a +x% damage per deterioration and make these deterioration permanent debuff

This would leave Maw mechanics as you changed him but also make him a good damage dealer like human torch and its smoulder
No need to be as powerful as human torch

lets say a a +17% damage to degen per deterioration

With 20 permanent deteriorations that would do something like 198 damage per tic for a 5R3 instead of the actual 87,5 one time...

Stellar

Concerning Ebony Maw, one thing could be done to make him a great champions

- transform the flat +x damage per deterioration in a +x% damage per deterioration and make these deterioration permanent debuff

This would leave Maw mechanics as you changed him but also make him a good damage dealer like human torch and its smoulder
No need to be as powerful as human torch

lets say a a +17% damage to degen per deterioration

With 20 permanent deteriorations that would do something like 198 damage per tic for a 5R3 instead of the actual 87,5 one time...

Or even make the permanent deterioration equal to the persistent charges !
Maw would grow in power with each fight 😉

Sean_Who

0-20 temperature in 2 seconds on Human Torch? No where near. Also what's with his MLM animations? Trying to land a parry after a MLM is horrible - the only champion I've had this problem with.

SamMarquez

Maw should have been buffed similar to gamora find a way to increase his attack so he hits harder.

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Octoberstack

Following the info released what are you guys all doing with your namors?

I think HT changes are good. Just needs that sig ability buff.

Inv woman needed a buff for sure.

Annihilus still won’t be touched. He needs another look

Cull. I never used him anyway but I think that block prof will always be a pain.

Ebony I would like to play as can imagine what it will do for him at this stage
My Namor is going to 5/65. That rebalancing is fine in my book. Others might disagree, but I understand what they did and why they did it. It's not gonna crush the character
Gonna +1 this.

My Namor has been 5/65 sig200 for a month or so now, and since then has gotten me through a good chunk of content with significantly fewer units spent (namely several paths in 6.1-6.2 and a unitless V2 exploration). In my eyes, he’s accomplished the purpose for which I ranked him, and I’d made my peace with the fact that he’d be tuned down.

But it looks like his rebalancing is fairer than I’d expected. I’m not too fussed about the regen decrease, as my main source of regen for Namor came from max WP + suicides while attacking. His increased ramp up time is something I’ll have to see for myself once the update goes live, but on paper it doesn’t seem too drastic a change at all. Pleasantly surprised.
I think that is an issue. Players who ranked him up and completed content with him, can now just regain their resources. In the meanwhile, I wil not have the same advantages in the future. That's why these rebalances should be released much earlier, so players have the least exploited benefit from it.

@Colonaut123 Personally I won't be ranking him down. His prestige is currently too important to me at a time where my alliance is trying to break into the top 300 for AQ rankings.

Although I don't quite see it as 'exploited benefit', I do agree with your overall argument - rebalancing (when necessary) should ideally be communicated and put into action much sooner than was the case with these particular champs.

Rooney_Nation

@Kabam Miike I don’t have all the champions rebalanced, but I do have annihilous, and he is super disappointing. The only way he can do decent damage (not great damage) is stacking 12 fury’s. To get that many takes several rounds of L1 because of the short stifle duration. Instead of extending his weak fury, the stifle duration should’ve been extended. Then it would be possible to get the 12 needed to get max damage. Our cap the stifle at six and double the potency of his fury. I feel like the best option would be to decrease the stifle cap and increase the fury potency. We understand the rebalancing should be small tweaks to make them more viable, but this tweak does nothing to address that. Not expecting a massive colossus type overhaul, something to actually make his better.

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Gamechanger_3

I have tested my Cull in the rebalance and while he does seem to take less damage it is not enough to make up for taking away his hitting power, used him today he hit like a pillow..... usually it would be a quick fight now takes a long time to complete just one fight, will be using other champs now and will be selling him, disappointed....

Denslo500

The disconnect between the perceived effort in the balance changes and result
1) Tons of notices and release of all the data used to make determination (summoners are primed for big changes)
2) Buffs are almost imperceptible
3) Nerfs are sort of buffs (depending on perspective)

These seem like changes you could have done at a whim.

Kabam looks fantastically incompetent when they put in so much effort with so little result.

Lvernon15

I’m only happy with 1 of the 5 changes which is cull, he feels much better in early fights and actually seems somewhat better while still doing what they wanted, though he still needs at least average block, the 3 buffs are hardly noticeable, and namor is unnecessary

Demonzfyre

The disconnect between the perceived effort in the balance changes and result
1) Tons of notices and release of all the data used to make determination (summoners are primed for big changes)
2) Buffs are almost imperceptible
3) Nerfs are sort of buffs (depending on perspective)

These seem like changes you could have done at a whim.

Kabam looks fantastically incompetent when they put in so much effort with so little result.

You have to realize that they said small changes and thats what these were. They weren't re-works of the champs which is what everyone was making them out to be. Miike was very clear about it once they decided to do all those champs. They did exactly what they said they were doing.

Octoberstack

I’m only happy with 1 of the 5 changes which is cull, he feels much better in early fights and actually seems somewhat better while still doing what they wanted, though he still needs at least average block, the 3 buffs are hardly noticeable, and namor is unnecessary

Yeah I feel like that's the general consensus at the moment, and the impression I've gotten from testing out the various changes.

HT rebalance seems underwhelming at best and pretty much imperceptible at worst. Annihilus and Maw aren't really worth discussing. Namor's changes were, as you said, unnecessary and unprovoked, and the data they presented doesn't really seem to support their rationale for tuning him down.

Colinwhitworth69

Looks to me that most people vastly overreacted to the rebalancing announcement.

StevieManWonder

Annihilus’s rework is fundamentally useless. Extending the furies off the sp2 does nothing to fix the issue which is that you can realistically only get maybe three-six furies constantly in a fight because of how short the stifle duration is. The easy solution is to increase how long the pause is on the sp1 that way it won’t really affect his performance on defense.

Onmix

I think I can speak for many people but overall impression to me is: "Is that what we're waiting for after six months and several post-phoning?". It is has been a real let-down. I can be wrong, but I truly wonder if the developers took it serious. Like, Annihilus is not even a buff at all.

Who said they were going to be buffs? Or Nerfs for the other side of the coin?

They were named balance changed for a reason and that’s what they did. They rebalanced.
Annihilus is a very different champ than Maw. Why should they get the same treatment. Matter of fact, who said they would ?

Stingerbk

Still hits like a wet noodle, will be slightly more annoying as a defender, but no noticeable improvement as an attacker