What exactly is debuff immune?
benjamin_lee
Member Posts: 37
Posting this question because I have noticed several inconsistencies and they are puzzling me. Gathered the following information by testing it out on Road to Labyrinth 4.5 which features a Rhino with the debuff immunity node.
Voodoo: unable to power burn after using sp2 on even combo. Ordinarily, this gives voodoo a buff that burns his opponent's power with each hit.
Vision: able to power burn Rhino. This is confusing since Voodoo is unable to power burn, yet vision can.
Rogue: able to power steal
Dormamu: able to power drain
Hawkeye: unable to power drain. Again, this is confusing because Dormamu was able to power drain, yet hawkeye could not.
This clearly shows that there is some inconsistency as to what "debuff immunity" actually provides immunity. Is this a bug? Or is there some hidden factor that determines this. Would very much appreciate if the developers could shine some light on this topic.
Voodoo: unable to power burn after using sp2 on even combo. Ordinarily, this gives voodoo a buff that burns his opponent's power with each hit.
Vision: able to power burn Rhino. This is confusing since Voodoo is unable to power burn, yet vision can.
Rogue: able to power steal
Dormamu: able to power drain
Hawkeye: unable to power drain. Again, this is confusing because Dormamu was able to power drain, yet hawkeye could not.
This clearly shows that there is some inconsistency as to what "debuff immunity" actually provides immunity. Is this a bug? Or is there some hidden factor that determines this. Would very much appreciate if the developers could shine some light on this topic.
7
Comments
Somewhere along the road some of the power drains were started to be considered as a debuff
Another thing that is inconsistent is the unblockable special nodes. On enhanced special nodes where either L1 or L2 are unblockable, it is usually the first hit that is unblockable in a special (with a strange exception to champions like Spider-man and Ultron, where their unblockable special hit is their 3rd and 2nd hit of their special respectively)
However, on Unblockable Finale and Unblockable nodes (ie the map 6 dormammu's node), it's not just the first hit that is unblockable, but every hit in the special attack is unblockable. It is inconsistent because both the Unblockable Finale/Unblockable nodes have the same implication as the enhanced special nodes, which would be "cannot be blocked" and "unblockable". Basically, this series of nodes are also inconsistent with their effects in the fights.
So why is one a buff and the other a debuff, they are essentially the same thing?
Buff should be positive, benefits your champion. Debuff is negative and adverse towards your opponent's champion.
This is not correct. Loas are buffs with no effects. Upon a special 1 by voodoo, it is then converted into a poison debuff. However, on special 2 on an even combo, the loas are not converted into a debuff. Instead, they are converted into a buff for Voodoo - that buff in turn gives Voodoo the ability to burn the opponent's power. At no time is there any mention of a debuff being effected on the opponent. For this reason, it is odd that a "debuff immune" node is immune to his power burn buff.
You could be right - unfortunately there is nothing in Hawkeye's description about his abilities that indicates that the power drain is dependent on him first causing a bleed on his opponent. It could be that this is the way it is programmed, but that is not reflected or explained in his ability descriptions.
Hoping a moderator sees this thread. There is evidently much uncertainty as to what the proper game mechanic is, and if the game is working as intended at the moment, then an explanation needs to be given as to why there are seemingly so many inconsistencies.
Try that on a "debuff immune" node. Entirely different premise that this thread was created on.
IE Map 5, Path 7.
How is this even a discussion? Did you even read Dr. Voodoo's abilities? His S2 converts 3 loas into a debuff on the opponent, and the debuff causes the target to "leak 35% of their power over 10 seconds"
If people just read the abilities before they came to boards crying "bug! glitch! Kabam is cheating!" there would be about 50% less threads on this forum
And if you actually read his whole comment this thread would been much cleaner. What you mention to is the odd combo debuff while the person you quoted specifically said even combo
Seriously if you cant even read seriously don't bother commenting
Lol, talking about how people should learn to read when it's you that needs to read as you completely missed the part about the even combo
This is about even combo? Oh... you're right. I have no idea why it wouldn't work then.
Yes even combo with regard to Voodoo's Special 2.
Still waiting on a moderator to clarify all this. Would be very much appreciated.
Thanks matey! You should write the descriptions for Kabam! This is simple, to the point and I can actually understand it!!
Thanks again
That makes no sense. What's the difference between an active power burn and a passive power burn? Power burn is just power burn. You remove their power and deal some damage. As simple as that
Similarly SW's power steal is considered as a buff for some reason but Vision's is not. No idea why
The same way limbo is passive and degen/bleed/poison/incinerate are active.
Limbo is a passive ability. It's neither a buff, nor a debuff. The timer you see under Magik's health bar is only an indicator of the duration for which it is active
What you are saying is akin to saying there are 2 types of bleed—one active and one passive. Not only does it not make any sense (at least to me it doesn't), it's also entirely unnecessary to introduce something like this (if at all this is the case with power burn) because other than immunity nodes, you wouldn't notice any difference between the 2 anywhere else in the game
Also, if DV's power burn was an active debuff, it should also activate willpower on each activation and we know it doesn't
A better one would be if one type bleed counted as a debuff, the other counted as a passive, while not being linked to champion specific abilities, but I can't think of anything like that.
Also, isn't Limbo a passive and bleed, poison, etc. just normal active debuffs?
I was referring to limbo as a passive debuff (which it is), and bleed as an active debuff (which it is).
In the case of power drain or burn or steal, some champs abilities are active, some are passive. Dr Voodoo power burn from even (or odd) are active debuffs. The reason it doesn't trigger willpower is because it's an instant debuff (similar to nightcrawlers deep wound effect)
every champ attack in coding will have 3 section: [buff] [debuff] and [passive]. So for example a champ like Wolverine attack will be like: light attack [buff: 8% regen, 8% signature regen] [debuff: bleed: 40% on critical] [passive: crit chance: x%]. When an attack struck, the computer will check these three box. If a champ is bleed immune, when checking the debuff box, they will ignore the bleed section, while a champ with debuff immunity will ignore the whole debuff box entirely. This mean with X-23 the trigger for her cruelty buff: "if a champ is bleed immune gain cruelty instead" is placed inside the debuff box, so it will be ignore when a champ has debuff immunity. And for Hawkeye and Vision, they simply misplace the power burn into the debuff box.
Here you can see that willpower is triggered by power drain from voodoo sp2 on odd combo