Hey there everyone, we wanted to drop in and weigh in on this again. To confirm, at 5 Souls, Morningstar has a chance to Life Steal 50% of the damage she deals, so she should not gain any health from attacks that deal 0 damage. Her being able to is a bug that we are working on a fix for and have documented in our Bugs and Known Issues thread here. We wanted to let everyone know ahead of time that a fix was coming for this, though it looks like it won't be able to be resolved until the 27.1 update at the earliest, which is currently slated for June. We also wanted to let everyone know that we are passing feedback on this and the Champion as a whole fight along to the rest of the team.
I suggest watching this video before saying that she deals 0 damage. The youtuber gives a very valid and relevant explanation regarding this issue, shoutout to @JaeSylvr
10%-0% health: Dark Match: The Champion gains 5 Indestructible charges, and while he has at least 1 charge he is immune to all damage.
So he is immune to damage but that most certainly does not state that the damage dealt is zero, it is just being ignored since the Champion is immune to damage. The damage is still there, he is just not taking it.
Morningstar still heals when he is hitting Luke Cage when the indestrucrible buff is on him, the damage is still there but he is immune to it because of the buff.
If the description was like the Descructive Feedback node, you guys would have been absolutely correct, the video points this out as well, but you guys are dead wrong about this fix and just trying to make this fight harder and harder every time some convenient and easy accessible counter is popular.
Trying to get back on track...has there been a comprehensive response to this point from Kabam? I am very interested to know their take on it, as it undermines the reason for making any change to both BWCV and MS.
I'll copy and paste a response from a different thread, some of which applies to this video.
I think we're putting the focus here on the wrong place. Indestructible is not the issue, it's the "Life steal", and even then, it's not the term Life Steal, but the amount of Regeneration, and how that is determined.
I know there's a video about how Indestructible does not reduce Damage to Zero, but that video is basing it on a completely different game. In MCoC, Indestructible reduces the Damage dealt by an attack to Zero.
I'll be the first to admit that we haven't always used all of our terms in the game consistently. Life steal has been used to mean a variety of things, and we're going to take some time in the future to clear those interactions up. Life Steal is a player facing name for a Regeneration that is caused by an on-hit event. The term itself is not important, but the amount of health regenerated, and the method in which it is determined is the important part of our situation here.
Ghost Rider and Doctor Strange both have a Life Steal ability, but the ability text explains that it is a flat amount, and is unaffected by a boost to their attack, etc. Lore-wise, they are stealing the opponent's health, but as a game mechanic, they are regenerating a set amount of health on every hit. They are not literally taking their opponent's health.
Claire Voyant and Morningstar are also not physically taking their opponent's health either. When damage is dealt, on the back end, that damage is looked at, and then health is applied to the Champion. They are not literally taking their opponent's health. The ability here is that, when you hit your opponent, a damage calculation is done, and then a second calculation is done to determine how much health should be returned to these Champions. When you are doing zero damage (because indestructible should reduce your damage to 0), then you are regenerating a portion of 0 damage.
As for Rogue, Guillotine, Guillotine 2099, and probably others, we're going to take some time to go back and look at those interactions, make sure they're working correctly, and that the text is clear.
If we do not see the number 0 when we hit the opponent how are we supposed to know that we deal 0 damage? When you hit an opponent that has power shield using basic attacks the number 0 shows up, similarly when you hit an opponent that is on a Do you Bleed? node the number 0 shows up. That is not the case when you hit an opponent that has an indestructible charge on them. You can heal off Luke Cage using MS when he has his indestructible buff on him this means the damage is still registered in the implementation. If MS is hitting 2000 on her hit, that damage is still registered as 2000 but because of the way indestructible is, it does not get applied on the opponent since they are immune to the damage. However this does not in any way indicate that 0 damage is occurring since if that were the case we would explicitly see the number 0. Their health bar may stay the same but that was never because you dealt 0 damage, the number 0 never shows up, it is just ignored because of damage immunity due to the Indestructible charges/buff. You are saying that indestructible charges should reduce damage to 0 but it most certainly does not do that and has not been doing that ever.
Saying that it should be like that does not change the fact that it has has not been working that way for years. Like I said before I am done with Act 6 content and I could not care less about that 6.2.6 fight, my MS is not even ranked pass r3 and I do no own a BWCV. However the way things are changed just to make sure that the 6.2.6 boss is harder is not sitting right with me, I feel as if you guys are dancing around the description to alter the "intended" way something should work as you go along. I know that me saying this will not change anything because you guys will do whatever you want anyways but I just want to say that I certainly do not like the way things are handled right now.
Did you really just ask if the number 0 Isnt there, how are you supposed to know if you aren't doing damage? Isnt the absence of any number a sign? Or that the health bar isn't going down? Could it be that it says it in the description of the indestructible buff?
If I give you a empty jar is there $0 money or no money being seen?
No the absence of the number is a sign of the opposite because I have clearly given explicit examples of where the 0 shows up and when no number shows up it clearly does not imply that the damage is 0. I have also explained why the health bar is not going down when I stated the descriptions of the indestructible effects which still do not state anything about 0 damage. Your argument does not make sense, is invalid and off topic.
We're not going to discuss this theory any further. This is false, and we've said so repeatedly. The team that created the system and game know how it is implemented, and they vetted the information I gave you. We welcome your input and opinion on the bug fix itself, but we won't be entertaining theories on a strictly true or false Fact. There are no shades of grey here.
@Kabam Miike If I may put in my personal experience.. please check my account and see the details and transactions to verify...
I spent a lot of units on the champion fight.. there were many times when I needed one last dexterity to finish it... I bought extra units to make this fight .. even took a break to go watch the Joker and come back to it.. it was ridiculously hard... I noticed that at times the Champion fight was bugged -- I had a dex buff but he didn't lose a charge..
So my perspective is two-fold: (1) a bug that made the fight more difficult for me and the overall high level difficulty of the fight meant I spent a lot of extra units to finish the fight once (2) the difficulty of this champion fight also influenced me to look for solutions and was one of the reasons I spent money to try and obtain BWCV.. This is a reasonable course of action for a player to do in this game!
So when there are nerfs to champions that can help make this one fight easier, it doesn't seem reasonable. I realize that there are many factors that go into your decisions... here's just another perspective..
I spent real money to take down the Champion boss before 6.4 came out and it is what it is. I'm over it but the money isn't coming back. I would just like to say the Champion boss fight needs to be nerfed. You do that than all this life/indestructible regen is no longer an issue. I don't really care to continue the argument we just need to tackle the heart of the problem.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
So you didn’t know about this one for ten months but now there are several?? You’re not going to list them because we might exploit them? But you’re gonna leave this one alone until June? Do you even listen to some of the things you say?? Or even read them before clicking post? I swear man.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
So you didn’t know about this one for ten months but now there are several?? You’re not going to list them because we might exploit them? But you’re gonna leave this one alone until June? Do you even listen to some of the things you say?? Or even read them before clicking post? I swear man.
We action on bugs as soon as they are found. I know this runs counter to the earlier theories of us picking and choosing which Bugs to fix right away because of the perceived notion that one could help or hinder players, but we're fixing this as soon as possible.
There are development timelines, milestones, and due dates that can't be ignored. In this case, the earliest we can fix this is with the release in June.
I'll be the first to admit that we haven't always used all of our terms in the game consistently. Life steal has been used to mean a variety of things, and we're going to take some time in the future to clear those interactions up. Life Steal is a player facing name for a Regeneration that is caused by an on-hit event. The term itself is not important, but the amount of health regenerated, and the method in which it is determined is the important part of our situation here.
Basically, Life Steal doesn't matter. That's not the issue, and the name doesn't make a different. We could have called it Hit-Regen, and it would have been the same function, but just a different name. The Important part is the clause right after it... 50% of the Damage done to the opponent.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
So you didn’t know about this one for ten months but now there are several?? You’re not going to list them because we might exploit them? But you’re gonna leave this one alone until June? Do you even listen to some of the things you say?? Or even read them before clicking post? I swear man.
We action on bugs as soon as they are found. I know this runs counter to the earlier theories of us picking and choosing which Bugs to fix right away because of the perceived notion that one could help or hinder players, but we're fixing this as soon as possible.
There are development timelines, milestones, and due dates that can't be ignored. In this case, the earliest we can fix this is with the release in June.
Please don't delete my post for this, but no, you don't action on bugs as soon as they are found. I'm not saying that you pick and choose which ones to act on, but the simple fact is that I raised awareness to the Howard the Duck bug in November and it still hasn't even been addressed.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
So you didn’t know about this one for ten months but now there are several?? You’re not going to list them because we might exploit them? But you’re gonna leave this one alone until June? Do you even listen to some of the things you say?? Or even read them before clicking post? I swear man.
We action on bugs as soon as they are found. I know this runs counter to the earlier theories of us picking and choosing which Bugs to fix right away because of the perceived notion that one could help or hinder players, but we're fixing this as soon as possible.
There are development timelines, milestones, and due dates that can't be ignored. In this case, the earliest we can fix this is with the release in June.
Please don't delete my post for this, but no, you don't action on bugs as soon as they are found. I'm not saying that you pick and choose which ones to act on, but the simple fact is that I raised awareness to the Howard the Duck bug in November and it still hasn't even been addressed.
Off topic, so we won't discuss it more here, but I think that was just missed. I've re-reported it.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
Damage is dealt, it is just ignored. Leave it in as able to steal; no bug to fix if looked at this way (jae sylvr!)
Far easier to change the text, than change the code.
They ignore Gulk/bane, Kamala, flow, thing sp3, parry; indeed on the latter, they just changed the text.
The only reason they want to "fix" this, is because it benefits the player base, 1,000s of whom have already used it.
I don't know where that information is coming from, but it's not true. When there are indestructible charges up, or any effect that keeps a Champion from taking damage, Morningstar (or any other Champion) is not dealing any damage in those cases.
I understand the frustration here guys, but this is not just a bug that affects one fight. This is something that can and has been exploited in other areas as well and needs to be dealt with. This has never been an intentional part of Morningstar's kit, and her ability descriptions are pretty explicit about it.
I just went back to find this comment, you are saying thar this bug can be exploited in other areas as well. Can you elaborate? What other interaction is subject to this bug other than Luke Cage/Cap Marvel Movie/Synergy induced indestructible buffs and the 6.2.6 Champion encounter? I would be glad if you can provide some examples @Kabam Miike .
Anywhere that a Champion could become indestructible. There are nodes and buffs that also make this possible, but we're not going to encourage users to exploit them by listing them.
So you didn’t know about this one for ten months but now there are several?? You’re not going to list them because we might exploit them? But you’re gonna leave this one alone until June? Do you even listen to some of the things you say?? Or even read them before clicking post? I swear man.
We action on bugs as soon as they are found. I know this runs counter to the earlier theories of us picking and choosing which Bugs to fix right away because of the perceived notion that one could help or hinder players, but we're fixing this as soon as possible.
There are development timelines, milestones, and due dates that can't be ignored. In this case, the earliest we can fix this is with the release in June.
Please don't delete my post for this, but no, you don't action on bugs as soon as they are found. I'm not saying that you pick and choose which ones to act on, but the simple fact is that I raised awareness to the Howard the Duck bug in November and it still hasn't even been addressed.
Off topic, so we won't discuss it more here, but I think that was just missed. I've re-reported it.
Thanks so much for re-reporting! I really appreciate it!
Claire Voyant vs 6.2 Champion Boss! Best Regen Ever! - Marvel Contest of Champions
So here’s a video form one of Kabam’s own content creators that clearly states how good BWCV was against the 6.2.6 Champion boss before the “bug” fix. It’s in the title. This is the exact video I had in mind when I pulled BWCV and decided to rank her. The video was first released in September of LAST year.
Kabam should be more aware of how their own characters interact with the game before they’re even released. If a “bug” such as BWCV getting regen while the Champion boss has indestructible charges is made publicly aware, oh I don’t know say in a video by one of there own content creators, and it isn’t publicly acknowledged by Kabam as being a “bug” Within a month or so, I think it should be safe for players to assume it’s an actual mechanic of the game and they should not be punished for making rank up decisions based on such information. A month is being generous as I feel they should know their own game well enough for such bugs to be caught long before that. And if not, Kabam should be held accountable and allow such players to reassess the rank up.
Same goes for Morningstar, her regen while the Champion has indestructible charges was made aware to the public on YouTube and forums long before even BWCV. Either the mechanics should have been left functioning as they were and MS and BWCV should continue to regen or Kabam should allow players that ranked up such champions to based on such functions to be reassessed.
Mistakes happen. If Kabam is now saying these are “bugs,” they should own up to their own ignorance that has gone on six plus months and make amends to the members of the community with whom it affects.
@Nøx is saying that a content creator posted it so if it was a bug they should've picked up on it when this video came out. Allowing it to drag on for six months and then say its a bug that needs to fixed it just a huge mistake on their part.
Thank you @TheTalents I’m not even saying these aren’t “bugs”, say they are, fine. It’s Kabam’s own fault for having allowed such “bugs” to influence the rank up decisions for their player base for so long. I don’t believe by saying, “we action on bugs as soon as they’re found” absolves them in this case. That’s over 6 months of players deciding to rank or not rank these 2 champs based partly or even solely on these “bugs.” Kabam shoulders the responsibility here. They had access to such knowledge and should have been aware by the mere fact that it’s the focus of one of their own content creator’s videos. There are even posts in this forum which state how good Morningstar was for the final 10% of the Champion fight because of her regen.
From 01/14/2020. Right here in these forums. I’m sure there are other examples of both as well. If they haven’t been deleted already.
Doesn’t Kabam have a responsibility, even an obligation, to monitor the content of these forums, their content creators, as well as the mechanics of their game and make us aware if information provided by those means is faulty? These “bugs” shouldn’t have made it out of testing let alone exist in game for over 6 months. They should allow players to reassess their rank up decisions of these 2 champs given the new information that these characters were “bugged.“ Information which has solely influenced players to rank up these champs for over 6 months.
Thank you @TheTalents I’m not even saying these aren’t “bugs”, say they are, fine. It’s Kabam’s own fault for having allowed such “bugs” to influence the rank up decisions for their player base for so long. I don’t believe by saying, “we action on bugs as soon as they’re found” absolves them in this case. That’s over 6 months of players deciding to rank or not rank these 2 champs based partly or even solely on these “bugs.” Kabam shoulders the responsibility here. They had access to such knowledge and should have been aware by the mere fact that it’s the focus of one of their own content creator’s videos. There are even posts in this forum which state how good Morningstar was for the final 10% of the Champion fight because of her regen.
From 01/14/2020. Right here in these forums. I’m sure there are other examples of both as well. If they haven’t been deleted already.
Doesn’t Kabam have a responsibility, even an obligation, to monitor the content of these forums, their content creators, as well as the mechanics of their game and make us aware if information provided by those means is faulty? These “bugs” shouldn’t have made it out of testing let alone exist in game for over 6 months. They should allow players to reassess their rank up decisions of these 2 champs given the new information that these characters were “bugged.“ Information which has solely influenced players to rank up these champs for over 6 months.
Makes sense. How about they give a MS/BWcv rank down ticket to you AND wipe your 6.2 progress as well? Since.. well.. you know.. it was cleared using an exploited bug.. lol
sorry but we should be entitled to Rank down tickets for situations like this.
the change is understandable, however at the same time these "Bugs" have been in the game so long that people have assumed its working as intended because there is countless videos showcasing these abilities that have never been flagged as such.
Take BWCV you had the content creators use this champion and take it into various game modes and you can't tell me you haven't seen those videos as i'm sure there is a process to ensure they aren't using these champions in content they haven't completed. Also they would be giving feedback too. Someone pointed out earlier a video from Lagacy showcasing the regen in the champion boss fight that was uploaded in September last year. That's 6 months this has been in the game.
Morningstar has been in the game for so long and this ability has been around for a long time (2017). There has been loads of nodes or abilities that are similar to that in 6.2.6 Boss fight e.g. Hela, Punisher, Corvus Sig ability, Aegis Node, Luke Cage, 15 combo or less, Crit me if you can etc etc
Players no thanks to the poor design of 6.2 have had to look towards champions capable of taking out the boss by themselves as the gates mean the other 4 slots are taken up by champions to clear gated paths. This champion is one of them. I myself only took up MS to do exactly this. She has been at r4 for a very long time. But seeing all the videos of late of how good she is for this fight and how shes capable, if you are skilled enough to solo the fight is why i r5 her. I have no SS, she hulk i have only recently pulled her, no Stealth spidey or any other options for this fight except throwing units at it. Given this change I rather get my resources back and put them into another champion like she hulk and leave MS at r4.
Also transparency is laughable Bugs like hitting in block and getting a special to the face are left unchecked and hidden. Really transparent with that right. Thousands of posts with videos pictures descriptions and scenarios all buried under a lie "This has always been possible" yeah because everyone was too dumb to report the issue prior to the first forum post about it. Also wasn't even pinned for people to to see it in view but buried further down the pages.
You’re starting to get it. It’s been well over six months that this has been going on now and I think Kabam should make amends to it’s player base for having it allowed to go on for that long by one of the following and NOTHING LESS.
A, reasonably, fair thing to do is leave MS and BWCV as they were against the Champion boss. So not only the thousands of players that used these champs to clear him could keep their champs the way they are and their content cleared but the thousands that still need to clear him have them out there as a great options. As I suggested in my first post in this thread.
The next most reasonably fair thing to do, the one in which I make my argument for in my third post, is to do what they did with Namor and Cull Obsidian or She-Hulk. Which we know Kabam is capable and willing to do in certain situations. These changes are definitely impactful enough to warrant such actions.
Since Kabam is saying these were “bugs,” the absolute MOST fair thing to do would be to rank down MS and BWCV without giving the players a choice, refund all resources involved in ranking them and beating the Champion, which includes all units still used on items by those who cleared him using them, and the money spent acquiring those units, materials and champs. Sure lets have Kabam, go through and figure out everyone who used them to beat the Champion, calculate the units used both on resources and money spent factoring in all the little facets of what players put into obtaining MS/BWCV and rank up materials as well as cost of items used beating the final 10% of the 6.2.6 Champion boss, refund the units and cash and take away JUST the clears of that last 10% of him. I would be in favor of Kabam doing this because that is what Kabam is implicating by call these “bugs” over six months later and changing them now. Go ahead and do it. Not just part of that but all of it which is the only way it could remotely be fair. Oh and compensating those players for their time as well. This would be the fairest thing to do but I personally don’t find that the slightest bit practical. If Kabam does than by all means do it ALL.
So to be perfectly clear I support, in order: 1.) Complete eradication and refund of all associated with the MS/BWCV and final 10% of the 6.2.6 Champion boss. 2.) Leaving MS and BWCV as they were in regards to that part of the Champion interaction. 3.) Offer players the option of keeping MS/BWCV in their current state or sell them and get all resources invested into them returned.
I think the community deserves and should demand nothing less than one of those three options.
Excellent points of how much further beyond the 6.2.6 Champion goes with MS/BWCV and why leaving them function as they have been or rank downs should happen in this case.
Thank you @TheTalents I’m not even saying these aren’t “bugs”, say they are, fine. It’s Kabam’s own fault for having allowed such “bugs” to influence the rank up decisions for their player base for so long. I don’t believe by saying, “we action on bugs as soon as they’re found” absolves them in this case. That’s over 6 months of players deciding to rank or not rank these 2 champs based partly or even solely on these “bugs.” Kabam shoulders the responsibility here. They had access to such knowledge and should have been aware by the mere fact that it’s the focus of one of their own content creator’s videos. There are even posts in this forum which state how good Morningstar was for the final 10% of the Champion fight because of her regen.
From 01/14/2020. Right here in these forums. I’m sure there are other examples of both as well. If they haven’t been deleted already.
Doesn’t Kabam have a responsibility, even an obligation, to monitor the content of these forums, their content creators, as well as the mechanics of their game and make us aware if information provided by those means is faulty? These “bugs” shouldn’t have made it out of testing let alone exist in game for over 6 months. They should allow players to reassess their rank up decisions of these 2 champs given the new information that these characters were “bugged.“ Information which has solely influenced players to rank up these champs for over 6 months.
Makes sense. How about they give a MS/BWcv rank down ticket to you AND wipe your 6.2 progress as well? Since.. well.. you know.. it was cleared using an exploited bug.. lol
Why not? And they also have to give back units to players because players spent money to get crystals too, and how about another compensation for not doing their job properly which affect community mentally and financially?
Thank you @TheTalents I’m not even saying these aren’t “bugs”, say they are, fine. It’s Kabam’s own fault for having allowed such “bugs” to influence the rank up decisions for their player base for so long. I don’t believe by saying, “we action on bugs as soon as they’re found” absolves them in this case. That’s over 6 months of players deciding to rank or not rank these 2 champs based partly or even solely on these “bugs.” Kabam shoulders the responsibility here. They had access to such knowledge and should have been aware by the mere fact that it’s the focus of one of their own content creator’s videos. There are even posts in this forum which state how good Morningstar was for the final 10% of the Champion fight because of her regen.
From 01/14/2020. Right here in these forums. I’m sure there are other examples of both as well. If they haven’t been deleted already.
Doesn’t Kabam have a responsibility, even an obligation, to monitor the content of these forums, their content creators, as well as the mechanics of their game and make us aware if information provided by those means is faulty? These “bugs” shouldn’t have made it out of testing let alone exist in game for over 6 months. They should allow players to reassess their rank up decisions of these 2 champs given the new information that these characters were “bugged.“ Information which has solely influenced players to rank up these champs for over 6 months.
Makes sense. How about they give a MS/BWcv rank down ticket to you AND wipe your 6.2 progress as well? Since.. well.. you know.. it was cleared using an exploited bug.. lol
I cleared the content with CapIW so it wouldn't stop my progress. But I would gladly have them remove that progress and give me all my units and credit card swipes back. Then I can go back and beat the champion free of charge since I know how to attack the content now with multiple champions..
My 2 cents: people wouldn't react this way if Kabam dealt with bugs that are against the player base with the same urgency.
Such as?
Getting smacked in the face while hitting into block?? Prime example, swept under the rug for over a year.
It's been shown in video we can use our specials well the AI hits into our block. So if we can do it so can the AI. Also they have done multiple attempts to relieve that bug which has only worked for some player base. Making it a much harder fix.
My 2 cents: people wouldn't react this way if Kabam dealt with bugs that are against the player base with the same urgency.
Such as?
You must be new to the game.
Just finished my completion of act 6.4. Tell me again how new to the game I am
Your first statement is flat out false. You cannot throw a special 1 or special 2 will the opponent is hitting your block. If that was the case this game would be played totally differently. I wouldn't have to combo into special or intercept with one.
@TheTalents actually there was a video. I remember seeing it where the attacker threw a special while blocking the A.I. it has to do with the speed if of who ever is hitting into the block. I don't remember what thread it was in but it was posted here on the forums.
it is physically impossible. While holding block, you cannot press the SP icon. You have to lift block to press SP. Feel free to disprove this by recording a vid doing the opposite. Make sure you record your fingers as well.
There was already video and a GIF posted here. It was probably already deleted since it didn't pertain to the thread. Feel free to ask @CoatHang3r he had the links.
You’re starting to get it. It’s been well over six months that this has been going on now and I think Kabam should make amends to it’s player base for having it allowed to go on for that long by one of the following and NOTHING LESS.
A, reasonably, fair thing to do is leave MS and BWCV as they were against the Champion boss. So not only the thousands of players that used these champs to clear him could keep their champs the way they are and their content cleared but the thousands that still need to clear him have them out there as a great options. As I suggested in my first post in this thread.
The next most reasonably fair thing to do, the one in which I make my argument for in my third post, is to do what they did with Namor and Cull Obsidian or She-Hulk. Which we know Kabam is capable and willing to do in certain situations. These changes are definitely impactful enough to warrant such actions.
Since Kabam is saying these were “bugs,” the absolute MOST fair thing to do would be to rank down MS and BWCV without giving the players a choice, refund all resources involved in ranking them and beating the Champion, which includes all units still used on items by those who cleared him using them, and the money spent acquiring those units, materials and champs. Sure lets have Kabam, go through and figure out everyone who used them to beat the Champion, calculate the units used both on resources and money spent factoring in all the little facets of what players put into obtaining MS/BWCV and rank up materials as well as cost of items used beating the final 10% of the 6.2.6 Champion boss, refund the units and cash and take away JUST the clears of that last 10% of him. I would be in favor of Kabam doing this because that is what Kabam is implicating by call these “bugs” over six months later and changing them now. Go ahead and do it. Not just part of that but all of it which is the only way it could remotely be fair. Oh and compensating those players for their time as well. This would be the fairest thing to do but I personally don’t find that the slightest bit practical. If Kabam does than by all means links.
So to be perfectly clear I support, in order: 1.) Complete eradication and refund of all associated with the MS/BWCV and final 10% of the 6.2.6 Champion boss. 2.) Leaving MS and BWCV as they were in regards to that part of the Champion interaction. 3.) Offer players the option of keeping MS/BWCV in their current state or sell them and get all resources invested into them returned.
I think the community deserves and should demand nothing less than one of those three options.
Who in their right mind would even consider selling BWCV or even Morningstar? That's just crazy talk. Both have a ton of value in so many parts of the game.
How would it even be possible to roll back everything with option 1 you suggested?
Also, if they leave the interaction as it is, it will have to be left for all instances where a champion gets indestructible attack or defender. So that means it would have a chance to work against us as well. Cant wait for those threads to hit the forums.
Who in their right mind would even consider selling BWCV or even Morningstar? That's just crazy talk. Both have a ton of value in so many parts of the game.
That’s not for me or you to decide. I’m saying players should be given the option if Kabam insists on sticking with ‘it’s a bug fix’ after all this time and not either leaving it as a mechanic in the game or giving a total refund of everything related to those rank up and use against the Champion boss.
How would it even be possible to roll back everything with option 1 you suggested?
Which is why I said it’s “not the slightest bit practical.“
Also, if they leave the interaction as it is, it will have to be left for all instances where a champion gets indestructible attack or defender. So that means it would have a chance to work against us as well. Cant wait for those threads to hit the forums.
That is how it’s been all this time without complaint that I’ve heard of. Change the wording to-“of potential damage dealt.” Problem solved.
Comments
I spent a lot of units on the champion fight.. there were many times when I needed one last dexterity to finish it... I bought extra units to make this fight .. even took a break to go watch the Joker and come back to it.. it was ridiculously hard... I noticed that at times the Champion fight was bugged -- I had a dex buff but he didn't lose a charge..
So my perspective is two-fold: (1) a bug that made the fight more difficult for me and the overall high level difficulty of the fight meant I spent a lot of extra units to finish the fight once (2) the difficulty of this champion fight also influenced me to look for solutions and was one of the reasons I spent money to try and obtain BWCV.. This is a reasonable course of action for a player to do in this game!
So when there are nerfs to champions that can help make this one fight easier, it doesn't seem reasonable. I realize that there are many factors that go into your decisions... here's just another perspective..
Thanks for listening.
There are development timelines, milestones, and due dates that can't be ignored. In this case, the earliest we can fix this is with the release in June.
Basically, Life Steal doesn't matter. That's not the issue, and the name doesn't make a different. We could have called it Hit-Regen, and it would have been the same function, but just a different name. The Important part is the clause right after it... 50% of the Damage done to the opponent.
09/24/2019
Claire Voyant vs 6.2 Champion Boss! Best Regen Ever! - Marvel Contest of Champions
So here’s a video form one of Kabam’s own content creators that clearly states how good BWCV was against the 6.2.6 Champion boss before the “bug” fix. It’s in the title. This is the exact video I had in mind when I pulled BWCV and decided to rank her. The video was first released in September of LAST year.
Kabam should be more aware of how their own characters interact with the game before they’re even released. If a “bug” such as BWCV getting regen while the Champion boss has indestructible charges is made publicly aware, oh I don’t know say in a video by one of there own content creators, and it isn’t publicly acknowledged by Kabam as being a “bug” Within a month or so, I think it should be safe for players to assume it’s an actual mechanic of the game and they should not be punished for making rank up decisions based on such information. A month is being generous as I feel they should know their own game well enough for such bugs to be caught long before that. And if not, Kabam should be held accountable and allow such players to reassess the rank up.
Same goes for Morningstar, her regen while the Champion has indestructible charges was made aware to the public on YouTube and forums long before even BWCV. Either the mechanics should have been left functioning as they were and MS and BWCV should continue to regen or Kabam should allow players that ranked up such champions to based on such functions to be reassessed.
Mistakes happen. If Kabam is now saying these are “bugs,” they should own up to their own ignorance that has gone on six plus months and make amends to the members of the community with whom it affects.
https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1102070#Comment_1102070
From 01/14/2020. Right here in these forums. I’m sure there are other examples of both as well. If they haven’t been deleted already.
Doesn’t Kabam have a responsibility, even an obligation, to monitor the content of these forums, their content creators, as well as the mechanics of their game and make us aware if information provided by those means is faulty? These “bugs” shouldn’t have made it out of testing let alone exist in game for over 6 months. They should allow players to reassess their rank up decisions of these 2 champs given the new information that these characters were “bugged.“ Information which has solely influenced players to rank up these champs for over 6 months.
Very well written, couldn't agree more.
the change is understandable, however at the same time these "Bugs" have been in the game so long that people have assumed its working as intended because there is countless videos showcasing these abilities that have never been flagged as such.
Take BWCV you had the content creators use this champion and take it into various game modes and you can't tell me you haven't seen those videos as i'm sure there is a process to ensure they aren't using these champions in content they haven't completed. Also they would be giving feedback too. Someone pointed out earlier a video from Lagacy showcasing the regen in the champion boss fight that was uploaded in September last year. That's 6 months this has been in the game.
Morningstar has been in the game for so long and this ability has been around for a long time (2017). There has been loads of nodes or abilities that are similar to that in 6.2.6 Boss fight e.g. Hela, Punisher, Corvus Sig ability, Aegis Node, Luke Cage, 15 combo or less, Crit me if you can etc etc
Players no thanks to the poor design of 6.2 have had to look towards champions capable of taking out the boss by themselves as the gates mean the other 4 slots are taken up by champions to clear gated paths. This champion is one of them. I myself only took up MS to do exactly this. She has been at r4 for a very long time. But seeing all the videos of late of how good she is for this fight and how shes capable, if you are skilled enough to solo the fight is why i r5 her. I have no SS, she hulk i have only recently pulled her, no Stealth spidey or any other options for this fight except throwing units at it. Given this change I rather get my resources back and put them into another champion like she hulk and leave MS at r4.
Also transparency is laughable
Bugs like hitting in block and getting a special to the face are left unchecked and hidden. Really transparent with that right. Thousands of posts with videos pictures descriptions and scenarios all buried under a lie "This has always been possible" yeah because everyone was too dumb to report the issue prior to the first forum post about it. Also wasn't even pinned for people to to see it in view but buried further down the pages.
A, reasonably, fair thing to do is leave MS and BWCV as they were against the Champion boss. So not only the thousands of players that used these champs to clear him could keep their champs the way they are and their content cleared but the thousands that still need to clear him have them out there as a great options. As I suggested in my first post in this thread.
The next most reasonably fair thing to do, the one in which I make my argument for in my third post, is to do what they did with Namor and Cull Obsidian or She-Hulk. Which we know Kabam is capable and willing to do in certain situations. These changes are definitely impactful enough to warrant such actions.
Since Kabam is saying these were “bugs,” the absolute MOST fair thing to do would be to rank down MS and BWCV without giving the players a choice, refund all resources involved in ranking them and beating the Champion, which includes all units still used on items by those who cleared him using them, and the money spent acquiring those units, materials and champs. Sure lets have Kabam, go through and figure out everyone who used them to beat the Champion, calculate the units used both on resources and money spent factoring in all the little facets of what players put into obtaining MS/BWCV and rank up materials as well as cost of items used beating the final 10% of the 6.2.6 Champion boss, refund the units and cash and take away JUST the clears of that last 10% of him. I would be in favor of Kabam doing this because that is what Kabam is implicating by call these “bugs” over six months later and changing them now. Go ahead and do it. Not just part of that but all of it which is the only way it could remotely be fair. Oh and compensating those players for their time as well. This would be the fairest thing to do but I personally don’t find that the slightest bit practical. If Kabam does than by all means do it ALL.
So to be perfectly clear I support, in order:
1.) Complete eradication and refund of all associated with the MS/BWCV and final 10% of the 6.2.6 Champion boss.
2.) Leaving MS and BWCV as they were in regards to that part of the Champion interaction.
3.) Offer players the option of keeping MS/BWCV in their current state or sell them and get all resources invested into them returned.
I think the community deserves and should demand nothing less than one of those three options.
Excellent points of how much further beyond the 6.2.6 Champion goes with MS/BWCV and why leaving them function as they have been or rank downs should happen in this case.
How would it even be possible to roll back everything with option 1 you suggested?
Also, if they leave the interaction as it is, it will have to be left for all instances where a champion gets indestructible attack or defender. So that means it would have a chance to work against us as well. Cant wait for those threads to hit the forums.
Who in their right mind would even consider selling BWCV or even Morningstar? That's just crazy talk. Both have a ton of value in so many parts of the game.
That’s not for me or you to decide. I’m saying players should be given the option if Kabam insists on sticking with ‘it’s a bug fix’ after all this time and not either leaving it as a mechanic in the game or giving a total refund of everything related to those rank up and use against the Champion boss.
How would it even be possible to roll back everything with option 1 you suggested?
Which is why I said it’s “not the slightest bit practical.“
Also, if they leave the interaction as it is, it will have to be left for all instances where a champion gets indestructible attack or defender. So that means it would have a chance to work against us as well. Cant wait for those threads to hit the forums.
That is how it’s been all this time without complaint that I’ve heard of. Change the wording to-“of potential damage dealt.” Problem solved.