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Flow global node in War [Merged Threads]

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Comments

  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 1,496 ★★★★
    PirateJon said:

    Does Dooms and wasp passive stun turn off flow power gains. I realize wasp heavy would just add to more. It this a viable counter?

    It depends. On stun immune ofc not. Wasp will crit 2 times with the heavy so you turn them off and get 2 back on again.
    Doom work better tho.

    Or you know just parry. The problem with flow are the stun immune and debuff immune nodes
  • MegaSkater67MegaSkater67 Posts: 1,377 ★★★★
    PirateJon said:

    Does Dooms and wasp passive stun turn off flow power gains. I realize wasp heavy would just add to more. It this a viable counter?

    To an extent this works, if they have 3 stacks of flow then yeah it can definitely slow it down a bit, the problem is her heavy consists of two guaranteed crits, so she resets the power gain and then gives them two stacks back. I use her on offence every war since she’s especially useful for aegis heavy nodes and debuff immune minis, but if the opponent is unwilling to throw specials often it can cause some problems. She doesn’t have a lot of health, so taking a SP3 can often be the end of the fight. She’s usually fine until you reach the boss island though.
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 1,496 ★★★★
    edited April 2020

    PirateJon said:

    Does Dooms and wasp passive stun turn off flow power gains. I realize wasp heavy would just add to more. It this a viable counter?

    To an extent this works, if they have 3 stacks of flow then yeah it can definitely slow it down a bit, the problem is her heavy consists of two guaranteed crits, so she resets the power gain and then gives them two stacks back. I use her on offence every war since she’s especially useful for aegis heavy nodes and debuff immune minis, but if the opponent is unwilling to throw specials often it can cause some problems. She doesn’t have a lot of health, so taking a SP3 can often be the end of the fight. She’s usually fine until you reach the boss island though.
    Wasps passive stun doesnt work vs debuff immune anymore. Be careful

    Edit: I mean stunimmune. My bad
  • Amadeo01Amadeo01 Posts: 212 ★★★
    Seraphion said:

    PirateJon said:

    Does Dooms and wasp passive stun turn off flow power gains. I realize wasp heavy would just add to more. It this a viable counter?

    To an extent this works, if they have 3 stacks of flow then yeah it can definitely slow it down a bit, the problem is her heavy consists of two guaranteed crits, so she resets the power gain and then gives them two stacks back. I use her on offence every war since she’s especially useful for aegis heavy nodes and debuff immune minis, but if the opponent is unwilling to throw specials often it can cause some problems. She doesn’t have a lot of health, so taking a SP3 can often be the end of the fight. She’s usually fine until you reach the boss island though.
    Wasps passive stun doesnt work vs debuff immune anymore. Be careful
    Wasp's passive stun works against debuff immune. It doesn't work against stun immune. However, I don't think it actually shuts off flow (please correct me if it does)
  • WorknprogressWorknprogress Posts: 7,233 ★★★★★
    Seraphion said:

    PirateJon said:

    Does Dooms and wasp passive stun turn off flow power gains. I realize wasp heavy would just add to more. It this a viable counter?

    To an extent this works, if they have 3 stacks of flow then yeah it can definitely slow it down a bit, the problem is her heavy consists of two guaranteed crits, so she resets the power gain and then gives them two stacks back. I use her on offence every war since she’s especially useful for aegis heavy nodes and debuff immune minis, but if the opponent is unwilling to throw specials often it can cause some problems. She doesn’t have a lot of health, so taking a SP3 can often be the end of the fight. She’s usually fine until you reach the boss island though.
    Wasps passive stun doesnt work vs debuff immune anymore. Be careful
    It doesn't work against stun immune. It should work fine against debuff immune
  • MegaSkater67MegaSkater67 Posts: 1,377 ★★★★
    Amadeo01 said:

    Seraphion said:

    PirateJon said:

    Does Dooms and wasp passive stun turn off flow power gains. I realize wasp heavy would just add to more. It this a viable counter?

    To an extent this works, if they have 3 stacks of flow then yeah it can definitely slow it down a bit, the problem is her heavy consists of two guaranteed crits, so she resets the power gain and then gives them two stacks back. I use her on offence every war since she’s especially useful for aegis heavy nodes and debuff immune minis, but if the opponent is unwilling to throw specials often it can cause some problems. She doesn’t have a lot of health, so taking a SP3 can often be the end of the fight. She’s usually fine until you reach the boss island though.
    Wasps passive stun doesnt work vs debuff immune anymore. Be careful
    Wasp's passive stun works against debuff immune. It doesn't work against stun immune. However, I don't think it actually shuts off flow (please correct me if it does)
    The passive stun does reset flow back to 0. But otherwise that’s correct, her stun is passive and will work on debuff immune nodes, just not stun immune.
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 1,496 ★★★★
    edited April 2020
    Amadeo01 said:

    Seraphion said:

    PirateJon said:

    Does Dooms and wasp passive stun turn off flow power gains. I realize wasp heavy would just add to more. It this a viable counter?

    To an extent this works, if they have 3 stacks of flow then yeah it can definitely slow it down a bit, the problem is her heavy consists of two guaranteed crits, so she resets the power gain and then gives them two stacks back. I use her on offence every war since she’s especially useful for aegis heavy nodes and debuff immune minis, but if the opponent is unwilling to throw specials often it can cause some problems. She doesn’t have a lot of health, so taking a SP3 can often be the end of the fight. She’s usually fine until you reach the boss island though.
    Wasps passive stun doesnt work vs debuff immune anymore. Be careful
    Wasp's passive stun works against debuff immune. It doesn't work against stun immune. However, I don't think it actually shuts off flow (please correct me if it does)
    Yes my bad. I mixed stun immune and debuff immune
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,868 ★★★★

    To be clear, I really like Psylocke. I think she's a fun champ with a lot of cool applications. I just don't think she's viable for high-level Flow wars.

    I’m bouncing between tiers 3 and 4 at the moment and I have wanted to try her out to see how she handles it, I think she’d be a solid counter but I need my other champs for the path I run sadly. We’re a group of war focused players who want to push for a plat 2-3 level, but we’re not doing that until flow is either gone or changed. It’s really messy in tier 3 and does take away a lot of the enjoyment we get from wars. Personally I thought dodge and siphon were ok, siphon was maybe a little bit too strong but nothing I had major concerns about. Flow with stun immune matchups like warlock are just painful, it’s easily the worst of the defence tactics so far in my opinion.
    I think Dodge was always fine. It was super popular because at the time, all of the others tactics were barely noticeable. However, there are plenty of counters to evade champs. Any champ can counter it, and some champs outright destroy it. It was a good tactic.

    Siphon could mostly be played around, but it was so tuned up that it became absolutely essential to have one of the few champs that can fully evade multi-hit specials like Punisher 2099 and Green Goblin. Requiring one of only a few champs to adequately counter these nodes made it a bad tactic. By reducing the severity of Siphon, they made it so champs could survive these rough matchups even if they were forced to block a lot of it. It's so much better than it was. The current flow tactic is at least as restrictive as Siphon used to be.
  • FalongFalong Posts: 125
    well u want play aw then its urs :) im not playing aw anymore because cost many items if u dont want to die, rewards no worth it, so i m happy with flow
  • Czar0909Czar0909 Posts: 6
    Can Ebony Coleslaw steal passive power gains from the flow defensive tactics? He would be a good counter since he doesnt need to stun to remove the power gains and bypasses debuff immunity. Also, the falter is a good in at throwing the heavy attack to steal the buffs. If only his damage was good.
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    Czar0909 said:

    Can Ebony Coleslaw steal passive power gains from the flow defensive tactics? He would be a good counter since he doesnt need to stun to remove the power gains and bypasses debuff immunity. Also, the falter is a good in at throwing the heavy attack to steal the buffs. If only his damage was good.

    Ebony Maw can only steal power gain buffs, not passives.

    Even if he could steal buffs, the 3 minute window would likely prevent him from being a viable option. His damage output is too low to be viable on attack in high-level wars.
  • Amadeo01Amadeo01 Posts: 212 ★★★
    Doc Ock is probably an undervalued champ who could do well against flow. Just keep the power lock going.
  • Mirage_TurtleMirage_Turtle Posts: 1,868 ★★★★
    Amadeo01 said:

    Doc Ock is probably an undervalued champ who could do well against flow. Just keep the power lock going.

    He won't work against debuff immune champs, which is at the heart of this discussion.
  • Czar0909Czar0909 Posts: 6
    Mojo should work fine with Clairvoyant and Ghost Rider synergy against the flow passive buffs. It says in his abilities that any buff triggered are reduced. Although I'm not sure if the synergy stacks with it or it doesn't affect passive buffs. I have him as a 5/65 200 Sig but usually put him on defense as most probably do. Triggering the power gain would benefit Mojo, really. My alliance isn't at that level unfortunately for me to try it. Coincidentally, any alliances looking for a new member? :/
  • NCB_ptNCB_pt Posts: 291
    Comon this is awful.
    We are in gold 1 and our adversary today had +100 deads. We too had a lot of deads, like 30 deads..... This don't compensate the effort at all.
    And by h the way, we had Defense Tactics but the result was with 3.4 multiplier (tier6)! There was some bug because we should be Tier5! I already created a ticket, let's see if can see this! This is awful!
  • UltimatheoryUltimatheory Posts: 520 ★★★
    Czar0909 said:

    Mojo should work fine with Clairvoyant and Ghost Rider synergy against the flow passive buffs. It says in his abilities that any buff triggered are reduced. Although I'm not sure if the synergy stacks with it or it doesn't affect passive buffs. I have him as a 5/65 200 Sig but usually put him on defense as most probably do. Triggering the power gain would benefit Mojo, really. My alliance isn't at that level unfortunately for me to try it. Coincidentally, any alliances looking for a new member? :/

    There are no passive buffs, only buffs or passives. Mojo only reduces buffs, he will have no effect on the duration of the passive power gains.
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 1,496 ★★★★
    Would be nice if we could get further infos by kabam.

    At this points it should be clear that the node needs a turn down with a cooldown, lesser stacks or lesser powergain.

    There are still rants popping on the forum every day about flow (not saying I agree with them all).

    Just a little info how you stand on the topic would be super cool :)
    @Kabam Miike
  • Bugmat78Bugmat78 Posts: 2,136 ★★★★★
    All season I've been playing vs Flow in tier 5 - it's broken. Tactics was supposed to be something that enhanced AW, not overpowered and dominated it. It is ridiculous.
  • KaruseusKaruseus Posts: 528 ★★
    Evade used to be dominating, so then comes rework of siphon (which doesn’t really siphon anything now), and flow.

    So now siphon and flow becomes go-to tactics. And now we hardly see siphon anymore because flow is just way out of balance.

    Kabam surely doesn’t learn that power gain abilities are not to be tempered with. Addition of hyperion was already a disaster to those who did not have power control champs... back in those days where you only had vision and magik... maybe doc oc.
    And then they added nodes that modifies power gain rate such as aspect of evolution just made things just worse.

    One might argue that all we have to do is just bait out and hope that they throw their sp?
    Well they are going to gain power during their sp motions. Couple it with few champs or nodes and all you get to do is hit once or twice while you have to guard/ evade the defender’s sp for like 20 seconds or so.

    Lets say that you can somehow bait their sp before they fill 3 bars of power, and hit in-between with no problem. Now we face a problem that we only have 3 min to fight, with first few seconds already subtracted before we can start to control due to champs running toward each other.
    And If we time out? We lose half of our health. Without allowing a single hit from the opponent you just lose half of your current health.

    So what now? You gonna say you can stun?
    He have 3 stun immune nodes including boss, 2 debuff immune in the last mini-boss boss phase. Some champs have non-contact medium attacks that makes parry-stun even harder. Damn Mordo’s got astral evade.
    Passive stun you say? Wasp heavy will crit so you will re-trigger 2 stacks of powergain. Doom can’t passive-stun without a shock debuff.

    So let’s end the fight quickly and not drag too much?
    Well, we need enough firepower don’t we?
    But for enough firepower you need either strong dps debuff or super high raw damage, or crit.
    But wait, we are punished for landing crits?
    Most dps debuff trigger when you crit?
    Some nodes have armor and physical resistance?

    Man... this is plain BS...
    I mean what the ****do you want us to do?
  • MenkentMenkent Posts: 889 ★★★★
    NCB_pt said:

    the result was with 3.4 multiplier (tier6)! There was some bug because we should be Tier5! I already created a ticket, let's see if can see this! This is awful!

    This is unfair but intended. What likely happened was the ally you got matched with was a lower tier. They have to fight your nodes but the scoring is for their tier. We've had it happen before too.
  • GOTGGOTG Posts: 1,040 ★★★★
    qartweli said:

    we have faced an alliance which went on 3 paths and bosskill but had 90% flow defenders ignoring diversity and hoping we cant clear them...let me tell u that was a hell

    A lot of alliances don't try to explore the map or maximize diversity anymore because it isn't necessary.
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 1,496 ★★★★
    qartweli said:

    it makes climbing up extremely expensive for climber...this makes some wall

    The best thing is prob to not try too hard this season and go again when (hopfully) flow gets nerfed next season.
  • TheAngryOneTheAngryOne Posts: 436 ★★★
    Flow is the biggest bs global node the game has ever seen. Only a hand full of counters at best. On stun immune you are screwed. This node needs a nerf big time. Else many will walk away from aw or quit the game. It completely ruins what is the most fun alliance game mode. Nerfing MS for 6.2 final boss but not this node would be criminal.
  • SeraphionSeraphion Posts: 1,496 ★★★★

    Rather not let kabam decide they may just add another 10 global nodes for next season x

    Who is gonna change it if not kabam? 😅
  • GOTGGOTG Posts: 1,040 ★★★★

    still no new info about this from administrators? Yeh I was thinking right, its next season now probably

    Are you sure about next season? Maybe next of next.
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