Flow global node in War [Merged Threads]

pseudosane · May 2020

why respond to him? Lets keep it on topic.

Amadeo01 · May 2020

GroundedWisdom said:

Plantesan said:

GroundedWisdom said:
You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.
🤦‍♂️ Pretty sure the idea is showing kabam the community dislikes their update?
Pretty sure they can read the response here, so that's just an attempt to get it nerfed. Pretty futile when they already made an adjustment and said they would revisit it after the next Season and were open to more changes if need-be.

Not really. They already said that nothing said on these forums is "data" for them, so actually making the change in-game is the only way to actually translate it into data.

Panchulon21 · May 2020

@UmbertoDelRio i totally agree with your alliances approach and if others do it that’s great. The problem is for every alliance who does this there will be 3-4 who say “sweet easy wars for me and I can milk a jump or 2 in tiers this season!”

For this to work we would need more than 60% of alliances to tank like people did in the 12.0 years back. Thats the only way kabam knows how to listen.

KnightZero · May 2020

Just reduce the power gain. Keep a cooldown. Still has the challenge but makes it manageable with multiple champs. So many ways to make Flow a better Defense Tactic than a money making opportunity.

Panchulon21 · May 2020

UmbertoDelRio said:

Panchulon21 said:
@UmbertoDelRio i totally agree with your alliances approach and if others do it that’s great. The problem is for every alliance who does this there will be 3-4 who say “sweet easy wars for me and I can milk a jump or 2 in tiers this season!”

For this to work we would need more than 60% of alliances to tank like people did in the 12.0 years back. Thats the only way kabam knows how to listen.
Oh I absolutely agree with you and I honestly don't see the majority of this actually going through with it.

Don't get me wrong, the reason for me and my alliance taking this step is fundamentally about how little fun aw is to us individually in it's current state. The main goal of this is for us to get rid of the stress, the drama and the costs all of this brings with it.

What I would recommend others to do is to take that into consideration, for themselves and their well-being, not nessecarily for a greater good.

Now, if a noticeable amount of alliances decided to step back from aw and if that resulted in changes, then I'd be glad to hear that. But from my perspective I've already won by breaking out of that horribly designed and balanced game mode.

Yup definitely. How did your alliance take it? We almost decided to go 6x5 and just land in gold 1 bur half the alliance didn’t want that and recruiting for half an alliance is a major pain.

Was 75% or more of the alliance on board? Or did it take convincing? @UmbertoDelRio

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Amadeo01 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Plantesan said:

GroundedWisdom said:
You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.
🤦‍♂️ Pretty sure the idea is showing kabam the community dislikes their update?
Pretty sure they can read the response here, so that's just an attempt to get it nerfed. Pretty futile when they already made an adjustment and said they would revisit it after the next Season and were open to more changes if need-be.
Not really. They already said that nothing said on these forums is "data" for them, so actually making the change in-game is the only way to actually translate it into data.

What they meant by that was feedback alone is not how changes are gauged and made. They listen to the feedback, and also confer with the data. It's really quite prudent to approach things that way. It means no drastic changes to improvements. For all intents and purposes, they're not removing Flow and they're not nerfing it to the ground. What they are willing to do is adjust it within reason, and that takes more than just responses. Obviously they can see that people don't like it. That doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be taken out completely.

Crumb3307 · May 2020

DJMNH said:

Seraphion said:
This node needs a nerf before next season.
For everyone that doesnt know what it does:

We play T2 in P1 and let me tell you when the enemy has Siphon we are happy.

There are champs with that flow tactic that are beyond broken:

Magik
IMIW
Dormamu
Gulli 2099
Heimdal
Mr Sinister
Mojo
Mordo
Punisher 2099
Warlock

First of they write its a powergain BUFF with every crit. You can disable it while stunned.

So I thought okay 2 counterplays for that doesnt sound too bad. You can stun them (ofc not on stunimmune nodes which are 7 or 8 and its tricky vs IMIW)

2nd counter play: nullify them right? Since its a buff? Wrong they are passives.

And when we open a bug post about it. Oh lets change the description. It stays passive. Like what?

https://forums.playcontestofchampions.com/en/discussion/comment/1150673#Comment_1150673

That global node is too strong.
You have like 5 counters in the game vs that:

Ghost/hood (tank SP3, GL if they play passive tho/ like waiting your phase and use SP3 after/ happend to me 3 times)

Quake

Crossbones (debatable if he is good enough vs R5s in Tier 3 or higher)

Gulli2099

Cap IW with parry heavy and hope not too many crits

Some more champs can work but it depends a lot on RNG:

magik (hope you got to SP2 before they SP3 so hope you dont crit and they throw their SPs)

Iceman can work to some point with RNG as well (hope you dont crit)

Void hope for petrifies

Luke Cage hope for exhaustions

Please change this node. It sucks the fun out of high tier wars.
Totally agree with you mate.. it's sometimes makes me feel like it's a money making tactics by Kabam. Buy potions from glory and if not then buy units.. This flow has been a pain, especially on node 36 sometimes. It turns out to be CheckMate situation

in season 17

I had fought duped

5* 153 sig HT
6* Yondu Duped
5* 200 sig Hyperion
5* Nick fury duped on this node with this flow.

and it was hell to wipe out opponents..

I really don't get it when you guys say you discuss.. then pls keep the discussion on the forum with all veterans to avg summoners and not just few veterans having youtube channel...

I would urge you guys to keep an open forum and allow every summoners who wants to give feedback to make this game interesting. This will help in long-run.

Cheers happy gaming

None of those 4 champs you listed are control champs, so flow doesn’t affect them. Also HT sig is meaningless on defense and Yondu’s dupe doesn’t really make him any harder.

Panchulon21 · May 2020

UmbertoDelRio said:

Panchulon21 said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

Panchulon21 said:
@UmbertoDelRio i totally agree with your alliances approach and if others do it that’s great. The problem is for every alliance who does this there will be 3-4 who say “sweet easy wars for me and I can milk a jump or 2 in tiers this season!”

For this to work we would need more than 60% of alliances to tank like people did in the 12.0 years back. Thats the only way kabam knows how to listen.
Oh I absolutely agree with you and I honestly don't see the majority of this actually going through with it.

Don't get me wrong, the reason for me and my alliance taking this step is fundamentally about how little fun aw is to us individually in it's current state. The main goal of this is for us to get rid of the stress, the drama and the costs all of this brings with it.

What I would recommend others to do is to take that into consideration, for themselves and their well-being, not nessecarily for a greater good.

Now, if a noticeable amount of alliances decided to step back from aw and if that resulted in changes, then I'd be glad to hear that. But from my perspective I've already won by breaking out of that horribly designed and balanced game mode.
Yup definitely. How did your alliance take it? We almost decided to go 6x5 and just land in gold 1 bur half the alliance didn’t want that and recruiting for half an alliance is a major pain.

Was 75% or more of the alliance on board? Or did it take convincing? @UmbertoDelRio
I don't want to tell too long of a story, but let me start by saying that fortunately in my alliance we're on a really friendly basis.

Now, I organize essentially everything. I have 3 people to have an eye on aq and 1 person to sometimes help keep aw in check when I'm unavailable, but I do the bg organisation, path assignment, defense, etc. for the 2 bg's we ran. The highest we've been was tier 5 and we almost managed to get into gold 2 this season. This is mostly because our members range from newly uncollected casuals to invested cavalier players.

And don't get me wrong, this is how I wanted to do it. I like organizing stuff and I like being in control (not in a dictator fashion, more in a "if something goes wrong I know who's at fault" type of way). And my members trust me and are glad to have it the way it is.

After this season ended and after I read about the future changes to flow I had a heart to heart with my members telling them that I feel burned out by aw. I told them that I can't go on pushing them to invest time and ressources/money into a game mode that to me does not have much of a future.

My personal aw attack team consists of cap iw, a tech champ and quake, but witnessing my members across the bank struggle, get frustrated and be discouraged about their skills simply because they lack proper counters to certain opponents on certain nodes with flow was disheartening.

Long story short, they told me that they've got my back and most even appreciated my decision personally. Most actually felt the same and are now glad to have more time and energy to focus on aq and solo progression.

I hope those who are in a similar position right now will also get the support they need from their members.

Extremely respectable. I applaud you!

-sixate- · May 2020

Nocko said:
I just left my alliance, joined an AQ focused on and for the first time since the Glory store update, brought rank up materials instead of refilling pots

Feels good. I really hope more and more alliances push back this way.

Since the update to the glory store I have zero reason to play AW. It's fantanstic! Have fun with flow wars, only Kabam wins.

Mart83 · May 2020

Even with this change I still worry about how boring flow actually is.. 2 hits, parry, dodge special and repeat? Talk about sapping any fun out of the game

Amadeo01 · May 2020

I think the change is marginally helpful, but as many have brought up, it's the magnitude of the power gain coupled with an AI that can turtle for a few seconds and you're just done. Being able to execute a well timed block won't help if they turtle up. I think it was Munash who posted a war video where he went against a mordo on Aegis heavy. Yea you can parry him on that fight. No limber or stun/debuff immune. He still ate something like 4 S3 in that fight though.

KnightZero · May 2020

Amadeo01 said:
I think the change is marginally helpful, but as many have brought up, it's the magnitude of the power gain coupled with an AI that can turtle for a few seconds and you're just done. Being able to execute a well timed block won't help if they turtle up. I think it was Munash who posted a war video where he went against a mordo on Aegis heavy. Yea you can parry him on that fight. No limber or stun/debuff immune. He still ate something like 4 S3 in that fight though.

Any talks of AI who turtle and we'll get the standard reply of "there is nothing programmed that way". Yet the player base knows how AI in wars just love to hold specials

Carmel1 · May 2020

Well... well timed block also sucks with flow
Fought Black Widow Claire V on stun immune...
You crit, she gain power... you try well-timed block she also gain power (from her ability).
Died 3 time this war, all vs Flow champs, all from sp3...
I hate war since you came with this node

Amadeo01 · May 2020

Carmel1 said:
Well... well timed block also sucks with flow
Fought Black Widow Claire V on stun immune...
You crit, she gain power... you try well-timed block she also gain power (from her ability).
Died 3 time this war, all vs Flow champs, all from sp3...
I hate war since you came with this node

I literally just fought bwcv on debuff immune and that's exactly what happened too. Just feeding her power no matter what. She also managed to dex or parry all my phase intercepts with ghost... This AI...

Carmel1 · May 2020

in the "News & Announcements" page > "Results of Book 2 Act 1 Chapter 1 Beta Test" thread you (Kabam) wrote:
"We also acknowledge that “optimal play” shouldn’t mean “bring 1 of these 5 specific champs”, or “I hope you like intercepting”, except for in very specific situations"

but i guess this is not relevant for 3 times a week in War when you have a full map that that require bringing specific champion to counter Flow or intercept the entire fight to counter the Villainy node (or of course use a lot of items to heal the chip damage)

Menkent · May 2020

Can confirm, the new version of flow is still garbage. It's every bg, in every war. It's at least as boring, pointless, and unrewarding as the worst period of mystic wars.

Seraphion · May 2020

Flow slowes the gameplay sooo much. Even if you beat them its not fun.

ChEpiLa_6 · May 2020

Flow node is disaster and make AW not fun.Kabam just make “one” global nod.fights against #control champs is surviving nod a fight

Octoberstack · May 2020

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

Plantesan said:

GroundedWisdom said:
You can do that, but Season Rewards will still go out, and someone will move up. The Rewards are based on Points put up relative to other Points. Even if no one chooses to run Tiers 1-5, someone will still get Master, Plat, etc.
🤦‍♂️ Pretty sure the idea is showing kabam the community dislikes their update?
Pretty sure they can read the response here, so that's just an attempt to get it nerfed. Pretty futile when they already made an adjustment and said they would revisit it after the next Season and were open to more changes if need-be.
I don't know about you, but many players who are pretty invested in this game just from a gaming perspective have a pretty good picture of how a certain node or ability works just from the description alone.

We as those players do not need a full season of the new flow to figure out whether this solves the issues we originally had with the node, since those issues were not even approached by the change.

Sure, the more complex something is the more nuance there is to judging it from just the theoretical approach. But it is still for example easy for experienced players to read the spotlight of a new champ and already be able to tell where that champ might be useful and how it should compare to other champs with the same or a similar role.

This situation here is way easier compared to that. To me personally there is absolutely no need to practically approach this to try and find out whether aw will now be less stressful and tedious.

If that messes with kabam's way of improving the game, then maybe they should try and improve their way of improving the game.

I'm not a guinea pig and neither is any of you. We don't just suspect this change to do basically nothing, we can tell with utmost certainty that is will do basically nothing.

It's really not that complicated.

@UmbertoDelRio Man, I couldn't have put it better myself. Not just in regards to this particular comment, but so many of your recent comments and insights on the last few pages of this thread.

Idk if this has been said before, but I appreciate the way you approach the larger issues at hand, considering everything within the relevant contexts instead of being sucked into needless rabbit holes and arguing around in circles. Even the usual contrarians are refraining from responding to your main points of discussion - pretty strong testament to how much sense you're making.

Mirage_Turtle · May 2020

In it's current state, Flow is still the dominant defense tactic. Shouldn't that send up a red flag to Kabam via their "data"?

Shouldn't the goal be to see roughly equal usage of all tactics? I'd estimate that we see 90% Flow, 10% Siphon, and I don't remember the last time I saw Bulwark, Dodge, or Crush.

Just looking at these numbers, Kabam should recognize the obvious error and tone down Flow. There are dozens of suggestions on how to do it in this very thread.

Flow global node in War [Merged Threads]

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