How is Kabam going to "balance" champs when you only need these 10 champs to win the game?

DalBot · May 2020

Doomsfist79 said:

Masterpuff said:
For the record, if torch, warlock, ghost, or quake get nerfed, or “balanced” half the community would leave.
Funny you say that.. a while back they nerfed the best champs in the game (SW, wolvie, OG thor, strange etc).. and since then the game has actually grown .. so you might be wrong in your assumption.

False equivalence. The rate of new players has always exceeded the players who leave simply based on level of exposure, but MANY did in fact leave and not come back when 12.0 happened. It was a massive deal and we were promised many things when that went down, sadly many of those promises have been long abandoned.

BigPoppaCBONE · May 2020

Ultimatheory said:
I just left my 100% exploration review of the Act 7 beta on the beta forums.

In all I counted 31 unique champions I used to clear the content. To me this means that the new nodes being introduced require more specific counters and thus force niche rank ups rather than the other way around. It definitely is not 10 champs to clear everything nor would I ever want it to be.

Could you have done it with less? As in you used Colossus and Man-Thing for their immunities, but you could have used Aegon with minimal disruption. Just wondering.

Rap · May 2020

Be glad they aren't letting us have SW she would wreck all of those champs!

Wakandas_Finest · May 2020

CoatHang3r said:

Demonzfyre said:

RogerRabs said:

Demonzfyre said:

raffster said:
1. Aegon
2. Ghost
3. Doom
4. Human Torch
5. Corvus
6. Warlock
7. Domino
8. Nick Fury
9. Symbiote Supreme
10. Void

And we can further narrow down that 10 to Aegon, Doom, Ghost, Human Torch and Warlock and you can still own the game.

The disparity of the usefulness of these 5-10 champs vs the rest of the champs is far too great. Kabam will literally need to buff 5-10 champs a month to catch up.

So I wonder how they'll ever get any kind of balance to happen unless something totally out of the box is introduced, like being able to equip very specific items to a champ.
Quite simply not true. Stick to complaining about rewards.
Are you going to explain why this isn't true.

Or just toss more insults around?

Mods why is this allowed constantly from him and a select few others? Comment wasn't constructive at all.
The list is flawed. You don't need just those 10 champions to "win the game". There are a lot of other champs that help or can do better than the 10 listed.
BWCV
Sunspot
Omega Red
Blade
Mojo
Killmonger
Sentinel
Guilly 2099
CapIW

And more. He is flat out wrong. And as proven by Metal Sonic Dude, literally every champ can defeat Grandmaster in 6.4.6. If you can see the flaw in what he's saying, you're part of the problem.
Look mang you’re not contributing to the frown table discussion going on. It’s quite clear that everything and anything is wrong with the game right now. If you’re not launching a complaint about something (even if you don’t even understand it) without actually thinking about it don’t bother.

We have people who haven’t completed the abyss comparing their prestige to people who have completed the abyss. Then using this to claim you need to buy competitive prestige (which was fine when someone else used to buy it for them).

We have people bemoaning nodes they claim are pigeon holed into using one champion for when they possess at least 5 champions to counter them, but those champions aren’t “god tier” and beyond so they can’t be bothered to even consider them for rank ups in spite of the flood of resources Kabam allows them access to.

We have people who can’t be bothered to communicate with their teammates and make their time requirements known to those who lay out AQ bemoaning energy requirements and linked nodes in map 7 (which have been previously drastically reduced).

So look if you haven’t worked (or bought) your way to the upper tiers of the game over the course of years while using these same systems to help get you there then you’re just simply not contributing constructively to improving the game for everyone by creating an overly negative environment.

Seriously people are fed up and tired of thinking, don’t force them to.

Sad that you felt the need to trivialize legitimate concerns about the state of the game by trying to pigeonhole all concerns as belonging to just end game players or players only concerned about obtaining “beyond god tier” champs.

If you like the game as is that’s fine for you but don’t begrudge others their opinions as I’m sure you don’t appreciate it when other do it to you. If it doesn’t apply to you let it fly bro. Kabam doesn’t need you and the other “white knights” to defend them and quite frankly guys like you only distract deflect and derail conversations.

Ultimatheory · May 2020

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Ultimatheory said:
I just left my 100% exploration review of the Act 7 beta on the beta forums.

In all I counted 31 unique champions I used to clear the content. To me this means that the new nodes being introduced require more specific counters and thus force niche rank ups rather than the other way around. It definitely is not 10 champs to clear everything nor would I ever want it to be.
Could you have done it with less? As in you used Colossus and Man-Thing for their immunities, but you could have used Aegon with minimal disruption. Just wondering.

Of course I could have used slightly less but it would have been offset by much higher item use most likely. There has to be some trade-off.

I'm also not advocating for niche match-ups in every scenario as sometimes this has proven to be TOO restrictive. But careful node design that makes one carefully select their roster before going into a quest is fun. I don't want to feel as if I'm just brute forcing my way through content with the same few champs.

Demonzfyre · May 2020

Wakandas_Finest said:

CoatHang3r said:

Demonzfyre said:

RogerRabs said:

Demonzfyre said:

raffster said:
1. Aegon
2. Ghost
3. Doom
4. Human Torch
5. Corvus
6. Warlock
7. Domino
8. Nick Fury
9. Symbiote Supreme
10. Void

And we can further narrow down that 10 to Aegon, Doom, Ghost, Human Torch and Warlock and you can still own the game.

The disparity of the usefulness of these 5-10 champs vs the rest of the champs is far too great. Kabam will literally need to buff 5-10 champs a month to catch up.

So I wonder how they'll ever get any kind of balance to happen unless something totally out of the box is introduced, like being able to equip very specific items to a champ.
Quite simply not true. Stick to complaining about rewards.
Are you going to explain why this isn't true.

Or just toss more insults around?

Mods why is this allowed constantly from him and a select few others? Comment wasn't constructive at all.
The list is flawed. You don't need just those 10 champions to "win the game". There are a lot of other champs that help or can do better than the 10 listed.
BWCV
Sunspot
Omega Red
Blade
Mojo
Killmonger
Sentinel
Guilly 2099
CapIW

And more. He is flat out wrong. And as proven by Metal Sonic Dude, literally every champ can defeat Grandmaster in 6.4.6. If you can see the flaw in what he's saying, you're part of the problem.
Look mang you’re not contributing to the frown table discussion going on. It’s quite clear that everything and anything is wrong with the game right now. If you’re not launching a complaint about something (even if you don’t even understand it) without actually thinking about it don’t bother.

We have people who haven’t completed the abyss comparing their prestige to people who have completed the abyss. Then using this to claim you need to buy competitive prestige (which was fine when someone else used to buy it for them).

We have people bemoaning nodes they claim are pigeon holed into using one champion for when they possess at least 5 champions to counter them, but those champions aren’t “god tier” and beyond so they can’t be bothered to even consider them for rank ups in spite of the flood of resources Kabam allows them access to.

We have people who can’t be bothered to communicate with their teammates and make their time requirements known to those who lay out AQ bemoaning energy requirements and linked nodes in map 7 (which have been previously drastically reduced).

So look if you haven’t worked (or bought) your way to the upper tiers of the game over the course of years while using these same systems to help get you there then you’re just simply not contributing constructively to improving the game for everyone by creating an overly negative environment.

Seriously people are fed up and tired of thinking, don’t force them to.
Sad that you felt the need to trivialize legitimate concerns about the state of the game by trying to pigeonhole all concerns as belonging to just end game players or players only concerned about obtaining “beyond god tier” champs.

If you like the game as is that’s fine for you but don’t begrudge others their opinions as I’m sure you don’t appreciate it when other do it to you. If it doesn’t apply to you let it fly bro. Kabam doesn’t need you and the other “white knights” to defend them and quite frankly guys like you only distract deflect and derail conversations.

I've never really had beef with you but I'm confused as to why anyone you consider "white knights" or even a comment like he made (though completely tongue n cheek) can't voice their opinion or defend their stance. It's like only people who feel the need to bash Kabam or criticize them are allowed to have an opinion.

There are far worse examples here on the forum that take the complete opposite side but are exactly the same point as what he's saying but you aren't tell those types to stop "pigeonholing". Why is it always a 1 sided street?

Even though Coat's post was clearly sarcastic, he isn't wrong. Raffster is wrong. There are a lot more champs than 10 that are needed or can be used to clear content. This whole post should have been closed right away.

CoatHang3r · May 2020

Wakandas_Finest said:

CoatHang3r said:

Demonzfyre said:

RogerRabs said:

Demonzfyre said:

raffster said:
1. Aegon
2. Ghost
3. Doom
4. Human Torch
5. Corvus
6. Warlock
7. Domino
8. Nick Fury
9. Symbiote Supreme
10. Void

And we can further narrow down that 10 to Aegon, Doom, Ghost, Human Torch and Warlock and you can still own the game.

The disparity of the usefulness of these 5-10 champs vs the rest of the champs is far too great. Kabam will literally need to buff 5-10 champs a month to catch up.

So I wonder how they'll ever get any kind of balance to happen unless something totally out of the box is introduced, like being able to equip very specific items to a champ.
Quite simply not true. Stick to complaining about rewards.
Are you going to explain why this isn't true.

Or just toss more insults around?

Mods why is this allowed constantly from him and a select few others? Comment wasn't constructive at all.
The list is flawed. You don't need just those 10 champions to "win the game". There are a lot of other champs that help or can do better than the 10 listed.
BWCV
Sunspot
Omega Red
Blade
Mojo
Killmonger
Sentinel
Guilly 2099
CapIW

And more. He is flat out wrong. And as proven by Metal Sonic Dude, literally every champ can defeat Grandmaster in 6.4.6. If you can see the flaw in what he's saying, you're part of the problem.
Look mang you’re not contributing to the frown table discussion going on. It’s quite clear that everything and anything is wrong with the game right now. If you’re not launching a complaint about something (even if you don’t even understand it) without actually thinking about it don’t bother.

We have people who haven’t completed the abyss comparing their prestige to people who have completed the abyss. Then using this to claim you need to buy competitive prestige (which was fine when someone else used to buy it for them).

We have people bemoaning nodes they claim are pigeon holed into using one champion for when they possess at least 5 champions to counter them, but those champions aren’t “god tier” and beyond so they can’t be bothered to even consider them for rank ups in spite of the flood of resources Kabam allows them access to.

We have people who can’t be bothered to communicate with their teammates and make their time requirements known to those who lay out AQ bemoaning energy requirements and linked nodes in map 7 (which have been previously drastically reduced).

So look if you haven’t worked (or bought) your way to the upper tiers of the game over the course of years while using these same systems to help get you there then you’re just simply not contributing constructively to improving the game for everyone by creating an overly negative environment.

Seriously people are fed up and tired of thinking, don’t force them to.
Sad that you felt the need to trivialize legitimate concerns about the state of the game by trying to pigeonhole all concerns as belonging to just end game players or players only concerned about obtaining “beyond god tier” champs.

If you like the game as is that’s fine for you but don’t begrudge others their opinions as I’m sure you don’t appreciate it when other do it to you. If it doesn’t apply to you let it fly bro. Kabam doesn’t need you and the other “white knights” to defend them and quite frankly guys like you only distract deflect and derail conversations.

It’s illegitimate to compare yourself to someone else's progression when you haven’t matched it. I didn’t begrudge them for spending their time and resources focusing on legend runs which do little for account progression instead of setting them aside for completing content that makes them competitive.

It’s illegitimate to claim one counter to a path when there are numerous and varied counters. Even more so when you choose to highlight a champion whose at the lower end of options for that path because they fit a tier list.

It’s illegitimate to expect to be handed the same things other work or pay for.

It’s illegitimate to ignore options for changes in a schedule like changing paths.

It’s illegitimate to bring an atrocious counter to a fight when you have better options then complain about how bad the fight was when it was your bias which led to outcome.

There are countless options for most of the grievances being aired but people can’t be bothered to think. I pigeon holed nothing, the people complaining have pigeon holed the arguments to further an agenda.

Sorry to disrupt the echo chamber.

OneMast3r · May 2020

Come on guys, I don't see Joe Fixit on here anywhere.

BigPoppaCBONE · May 2020

Ultimatheory said:

BigPoppaCBONE said:

Ultimatheory said:
I just left my 100% exploration review of the Act 7 beta on the beta forums.

In all I counted 31 unique champions I used to clear the content. To me this means that the new nodes being introduced require more specific counters and thus force niche rank ups rather than the other way around. It definitely is not 10 champs to clear everything nor would I ever want it to be.
Could you have done it with less? As in you used Colossus and Man-Thing for their immunities, but you could have used Aegon with minimal disruption. Just wondering.
Of course I could have used slightly less but it would have been offset by much higher item use most likely. There has to be some trade-off.

I'm also not advocating for niche match-ups in every scenario as sometimes this has proven to be TOO restrictive. But careful node design that makes one carefully select their roster before going into a quest is fun. I don't want to feel as if I'm just brute forcing my way through content with the same few champs.

Logically there's some minimal set of the champs that will get you through all of the content at a given point of progress with the least resources used. I don't know what the answer is. I'm fine with needing a shock immune champ for example because I've got a couple good ones, but other people might call cash grab because they don't have any or the ones they do have are too weak to get through the content unless they are highly ranked and they see it as a waste of precious resources.
For me, it's not a big deal because it isn't a race, I'll get those "needed" (meaning desired for minimizing pots, revives and hassle, not literally needed) champs eventually and I won't bother with the content until I do.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Does this mean I win the game?

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Bit of a joke, but I literally pulled him just now. Feel free to post more lists. Hahaha!

Mercury79 · May 2020

raffster said:
1. Aegon
2. Ghost
3. Doom
4. Human Torch
5. Corvus
6. Warlock
7. Domino
8. Nick Fury
9. Symbiote Supreme
10. Void

And we can further narrow down that 10 to Aegon, Doom, Ghost, Human Torch and Warlock and you can still own the game.

The disparity of the usefulness of these 5-10 champs vs the rest of the champs is far too great. Kabam will literally need to buff 5-10 champs a month to catch up.

So I wonder how they'll ever get any kind of balance to happen unless something totally out of the box is introduced, like being able to equip very specific items to a champ.

Kabam should fix champ issues soon these issues took long time...couse of new event work new champ work and server works is also in their listmay be if we get 1 champ fixed per month or in two month it could be enough not much but only critical rating or damage rating could be enough...for changes...otherwise they could upgrade the mastry that could be boost in game...and champ problem could be solved easily...

TheTalents · May 2020

SpideyFunko said:

MiStaLova said:
Got some champ but not win the game 100%😂🤣

stop it with the flexing

That not really flexing if you played the game for 4+ years. His roster could be much better.

Parodical_Sun1 · May 2020

I agree Quake is a game changer to add or that list but if a player have not mastered her complicated movement features, then she is not an easy champ to use to just breeze through the content.
Even Archangle have become null-in-void to bleed and poison immune champs.

TheTalents · May 2020

Kabam knows what needs to be done. We've given literally thousands of pages worth of comments to give them ideas on how to improve. They basically just have to get out of the pay to win mindset and focusing the game around it. This mindset influences everything they do. Why do six star rankups cost so much gold? Because if you need gold it gives you an incentive to buy more crystals and therefore they sell more cavaliers. Everything in the game points to you buying more cavaliers to make things easier. Signature stone gap, better champions, AQ costs, gold restraints, iso restraints, no six star arenas, etc etc.

KDoggg2017 · May 2020

I think Kabam can balance other champs thru content. Create a global node that boosts 2015/2016 champs, or teams like The Defenders, The Avengers, etc. This would allow players to use their entire roster over the course of an entire Chapter or Act.

winterthur · May 2020

KDoggg2017 said:
I think Kabam can balance other champs thru content. Create a global node that boosts 2015/2016 champs, or teams like The Defenders, The Avengers, etc. This would allow players to use their entire roster over the course of an entire Chapter or Act.

Or this?

Avengers: Last Stand
With the threat of THANOS rising once more in The Contest, the people of The Battlerealm call upon the AVENGERS to save them! Harness the power of the original INFINITY STONES by completing the initial run of Quests, and then empower the original six Avengers one by one to defeat a final challenge and drive off The Children of Thanos!

winterthur · May 2020

GroundedWisdom said:

Does this mean I win the game?

About 50% there.
Enjoy the champ.

winterthur · May 2020

WarlockdaRobot said:
You forgot the one and only (not really) Cyclops. He soloed the Grandmaster!

Did not.
Needed 7 revives.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

NomedYeshua said:

RogerRabs said:

Demonzfyre said:

raffster said:
1. Aegon
2. Ghost
3. Doom
4. Human Torch
5. Corvus
6. Warlock
7. Domino
8. Nick Fury
9. Symbiote Supreme
10. Void

And we can further narrow down that 10 to Aegon, Doom, Ghost, Human Torch and Warlock and you can still own the game.

The disparity of the usefulness of these 5-10 champs vs the rest of the champs is far too great. Kabam will literally need to buff 5-10 champs a month to catch up.

So I wonder how they'll ever get any kind of balance to happen unless something totally out of the box is introduced, like being able to equip very specific items to a champ.
Quite simply not true. Stick to complaining about rewards.
Are you going to explain why this isn't true.

Or just toss more insults around?

Mods why is this allowed constantly from him and a select few others? Comment wasn't constructive at all.
The whole community knows why, and certain other person that put himself in jail lol!! I thought that was hilarious

I made a joke about pulling him, and asked a rhetorical question about how one wins the game. There's no such thing as winning this game.
Further to the subject, choosing the best Champs doesn't mean the rest are useless. That's entirely too religious with the God Tier List. Sure, some are on the lower end. There are a great deal more which are mid-range and even decent in terms of usefulness. There's always going to be a range of Champs and if your only focus is one specific list, you're not going to see any value at all in anything else. Do some need work? Sure. We'll never have an entire lineup of 200 "God Tier Champs'.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Lol. You mean the other one in jail in this Thread? Op. That's just me.

Reference · May 2020

Ultimatheory said:
I just left my 100% exploration review of the Act 7 beta on the beta forums.

In all I counted 31 unique champions I used to clear the content. To me this means that the new nodes being introduced require more specific counters and thus force niche rank ups rather than the other way around. It definitely is not 10 champs to clear everything nor would I ever want it to be.

The most authoritative endgamer comment for me. Thanks for this.

Crumb3307 · May 2020

Every game has “the best” few characters, weapons, players, etc that everyone uses. Games can’t be completely balanced. Those 10 characters you listed can probably cover most content, but you don’t have to have those 10 to do content, there’s plenty of other good champs you can use to clear most content.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

The bottom line is, there is room to use more Champs in End-Game, and people want to. That's something they've acknowledged they heard in the Act 7 feedback. I don't believe it's realistic to expect to use all Champs in End-Game. Some Champs are more useful in some areas, and that's just part of the game. The God Tier List is just a personal review.

How is Kabam going to "balance" champs when you only need these 10 champs to win the game?

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