General Game Feedback [Merged Threads]

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

DNA3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:
Defense tactics are supposed to encourage diversity is honestly the funniest sh*t I've heard today.

But it gets even better, because in the near future even offensive champs will benefit from them, meaning our offensive options will also become less diversity encouraging.

What kind of a joke even is that? Diversity literally becomes a complete non-factor in tier 5+. Not having defense tactics is what encourages diversity.

By the way we tanked our first war this season. And surprisingly enough, our opponent also only places a half-a**ed defense and only went for the bosses.

I couldn't help myself and still placed my 5/65 mojo as a boss in bg1 amongst mostly 1-2* champs. He still got 26 kills.
When has diversity ever been an issue for Offense? People use the same Champs regardless, overall. If anything, it will encourage more diversity. Unless I'm playing another game where Corvus isn't in every Attack Team.
This would be a case where I am compelled to say it before anyone else does: if you aren't playing the game at a level where defense tactics is in play, or higher tier AW in general, you really cannot have any idea how the DT changes will affect the attacker and defender meta. *I* haven't been in tier 5/6 in a long enough period of time that I can only hazard a guess myself.

Also, Corvus is path-specific in war, even in intermediate tiers. If you're on a path where you aren't going to get any charges, he's not always going to be the best choice. Or sometimes even a good choice. Can anyone tell me if Corvus is a good choice for a map full of Dooms? Because I don't know how to do a path with multiple Dooms without Void or CapIW, honestly.

I may respect your output, but I have the same response I do to anyone else that says it. Calling people out for where they're at in the game is not a reasonable rebuttal to points made. It's a low-hat response that just ignores what someone says. Of all the points you've made, I still don't understand why you support that behavior.

CaptainGame · May 2020

DNA3000 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:
Defense tactics are supposed to encourage diversity is honestly the funniest sh*t I've heard today.

But it gets even better, because in the near future even offensive champs will benefit from them, meaning our offensive options will also become less diversity encouraging.

What kind of a joke even is that? Diversity literally becomes a complete non-factor in tier 5+. Not having defense tactics is what encourages diversity.

By the way we tanked our first war this season. And surprisingly enough, our opponent also only places a half-a**ed defense and only went for the bosses.

I couldn't help myself and still placed my 5/65 mojo as a boss in bg1 amongst mostly 1-2* champs. He still got 26 kills.
When has diversity ever been an issue for Offense? People use the same Champs regardless, overall. If anything, it will encourage more diversity. Unless I'm playing another game where Corvus isn't in every Attack Team.
This would be a case where I am compelled to say it before anyone else does: if you aren't playing the game at a level where defense tactics is in play, or higher tier AW in general, you really cannot have any idea how the DT changes will affect the attacker and defender meta. *I* haven't been in tier 5/6 in a long enough period of time that I can only hazard a guess myself.

Also, Corvus is path-specific in war, even in intermediate tiers. If you're on a path where you aren't going to get any charges, he's not always going to be the best choice. Or sometimes even a good choice. Can anyone tell me if Corvus is a good choice for a map full of Dooms? Because I don't know how to do a path with multiple Dooms without Void or CapIW, honestly.

In regards to corvus, yes and no. Corvus gets guaranteed crits on doom where others struggle to crit him at all. However without charges they won’t be as good. You’d basically build to an sp2 then dance around while your glaives come back and bait sp1s.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Let's be honest. It hasn't been that long since every Attack Team was the Trinity. Only recently have Tactics caused people to shift what they're using. The most common practice is the "best" Attackers come out, and everyone uses them.

OmegaMan · May 2020

Wakandas_Finest said:

OmegaMan said:

Stingerbk said:
And y'all better rethink the alliance ticket thingy because it's gonna ruin alot of alliances, at least enable donating of tickets to others so it makes for a fair move. Those who will run map 5 can donate to the map 6 guys because we all collect the same rewards at the end of the day.
Agreed! @Kabam Miike our alliance is at odds just talking about this. This new “payment” method is seriously flawed. The alliances that run split maps have to way to split the costs! Map six people have to pay for it all and the people that run map 5 have no way to split the costs. Doesn’t seem like much thought put into this for any alliances other than the top few running map 6 and 7 all the time.

How about you only get the rewards for the map you run. Personally I don’t mind the trade off as it delivers a big blow to the merc community. It may even have the add on effect of reducing the use of arena bots since their main purpose was treasury dumps.

Kind of defeats the purpose in being in an alliance. If that’s the case then just pair people up that want to run a certain map.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Let's be honest. It hasn't been that long since every Attack Team was the Trinity. Only recently have Tactics caused people to shift what they're using. The most common practice is the "best" Attackers come out, and everyone uses them.
"The trinity"...? Which one? Do you even play this game? Be honest.

The Blade Trinity. Are you trying to follow?

Mase1127 · May 2020

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Let's be honest. It hasn't been that long since every Attack Team was the Trinity. Only recently have Tactics caused people to shift what they're using. The most common practice is the "best" Attackers come out, and everyone uses them.
"The trinity"...? Which one? Do you even play this game? Be honest.
The Blade Trinity. Are you trying to follow?

Blade trinity and Corvus in every attack team comments are working against you.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Mase1127 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Let's be honest. It hasn't been that long since every Attack Team was the Trinity. Only recently have Tactics caused people to shift what they're using. The most common practice is the "best" Attackers come out, and everyone uses them.
"The trinity"...? Which one? Do you even play this game? Be honest.
The Blade Trinity. Are you trying to follow?
Blade trinity and Corvus in every attack team comments are working against you.

That was entirely two different references. I'm not that obtuse. The point I was making is Attack Teams in War have a long history of using the same Champs.

Mr_Platypus · May 2020

GroundedWisdom said:
Let's be honest. It hasn't been that long since every Attack Team was the Trinity. Only recently have Tactics caused people to shift what they're using. The most common practice is the "best" Attackers come out, and everyone uses them.

Which one?
Ghost trinity?
Domino trinity?
Blade trinity?
I won’t speak for the tiers with defence tactics as I’ve specifically avoided those tiers So have no experience with them (maybe consider doing the same?) but at tiers 6-8 I’m changing up my AW team to best counter the champs on my path most wars.
In fact the players I see do worst in my alliance are also the ones I see bringing the same 3 champs every time.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Let's be honest. It hasn't been that long since every Attack Team was the Trinity. Only recently have Tactics caused people to shift what they're using. The most common practice is the "best" Attackers come out, and everyone uses them.
"The trinity"...? Which one? Do you even play this game? Be honest.
The Blade Trinity. Are you trying to follow?
Lmao. When was the last time you played aw?

Last night. I'm in Tier 6. We're also going to move on from that subject because I'm going to participate whether you approve or not.

KnightZero · May 2020

Offense tactics for the same class doesn't change much for Flow at the very least. The best counters to Flow are control champs. Just giving the same champs(Magik/G99/Claire/Doc) a benefit. Would rather see offense tactics that helped benefit other champs vs a defense tactic.

Also, when you face the same champs your team won't change. Ever since flow became a thing, I basically see the same champs in war being used with rarely a change maybe due to the placement of maybe a Nick Fury/Void or someone who requires a specific counter. Otherwise, you'll just see G99/Quake/HT/Magik/Void/Warlock/Doom/ Ghost. Have barely seen any other champ being used. Or someone who has been lucky to spend on a Vision will run him solo or with CapIW. Don't see any diversity in offense. Atleast Siphon meant you would see a larger number of champs being used.

Wakandas_Finest · May 2020

UmbertoDelRio said:

Wakandas_Finest said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:
Defense tactics are supposed to encourage diversity is honestly the funniest sh*t I've heard today.

But it gets even better, because in the near future even offensive champs will benefit from them, meaning our offensive options will also become less diversity encouraging.

What kind of a joke even is that? Diversity literally becomes a complete non-factor in tier 5+. Not having defense tactics is what encourages diversity.

By the way we tanked our first war this season. And surprisingly enough, our opponent also only places a half-a**ed defense and only went for the bosses.

I couldn't help myself and still placed my 5/65 mojo as a boss in bg1 amongst mostly 1-2* champs. He still got 26 kills.
When has diversity ever been an issue for Offense? People use the same Champs regardless, overall. If anything, it will encourage more diversity. Unless I'm playing another game where Corvus isn't in every Attack Team.
Offensive diversity has already been heavily impacted by defense tactics. However, you need to have at least some tier 5 experience to comprehend that.

Now with additional bonuses in an already broken and horribly balanced system it is to be expected that there will also be an objectively best defense tactic in consideration of both defense and offense. Just as flow is objectively the best tactic to use, as in placing a diverse tactic or even somewhat decent non-flow defenders is to be frank stupid, considering what even 5/50 defenders can do on flow.

But, yeah. Again, you'd need to have a picture of tier 5+ wars to understand that. The difference between tier 6- and tier 5+ is absurd.
Rubbish there only 4-5 reliable counters to flow wars how is that heavily impacting diversity on offense. Outside of tier 5 and above players do use the same 5-10 champs every war 5-10 out of 170+ does not equal diversity
First of all, yes that's exactly what I said. Defense tactics heavily impacted offensive diversity, negatively that is.

And as to the rest, that is neither my experience nor is it correct. Tier 6- allows for a lot of offensive diversity in comparison.

Tier 6 may allow for more offensive diversity but players rarely if ever take advantage of it. Players always default to their most used or best champs due to the competitive nature of AW. Just look at the attack teams your alliances use no matter what tier you’re on you won’t find more than 10 different champs being used every war among the 30 people in your alliance. With champs getting an offensive boost depending on the defense tactics there’s more incentive to bring in a different champ than what you would normally use of course that will depend on how good the boost is but the potential is there.

Look at it this way say for example Gamora is your favorite champ you would love to take her into war but the way the current set up is you wouldn’t do because you know she is not on the level of a ghost or quake and you know if she dies your alliance mates will hound you about bringing her into war. Now if kabam adds a boost that benefits her to the point where she’s on par with better champs you’re free to use her without worry. I’m not saying that will be the case but again the potential is there

Octoberstack · May 2020

GroundedWisdom said:

Mase1127 said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Let's be honest. It hasn't been that long since every Attack Team was the Trinity. Only recently have Tactics caused people to shift what they're using. The most common practice is the "best" Attackers come out, and everyone uses them.
"The trinity"...? Which one? Do you even play this game? Be honest.
The Blade Trinity. Are you trying to follow?
Blade trinity and Corvus in every attack team comments are working against you.

That was entirely two different references. I'm not that obtuse. The point I was making is Attack Teams in War have a long history of using the same Champs.

Not really, especially not in higher tier wars.

KnightZero · May 2020

Wakandas_Finest said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

Wakandas_Finest said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:
Defense tactics are supposed to encourage diversity is honestly the funniest sh*t I've heard today.

But it gets even better, because in the near future even offensive champs will benefit from them, meaning our offensive options will also become less diversity encouraging.

What kind of a joke even is that? Diversity literally becomes a complete non-factor in tier 5+. Not having defense tactics is what encourages diversity.

By the way we tanked our first war this season. And surprisingly enough, our opponent also only places a half-a**ed defense and only went for the bosses.

I couldn't help myself and still placed my 5/65 mojo as a boss in bg1 amongst mostly 1-2* champs. He still got 26 kills.
When has diversity ever been an issue for Offense? People use the same Champs regardless, overall. If anything, it will encourage more diversity. Unless I'm playing another game where Corvus isn't in every Attack Team.
Offensive diversity has already been heavily impacted by defense tactics. However, you need to have at least some tier 5 experience to comprehend that.

Now with additional bonuses in an already broken and horribly balanced system it is to be expected that there will also be an objectively best defense tactic in consideration of both defense and offense. Just as flow is objectively the best tactic to use, as in placing a diverse tactic or even somewhat decent non-flow defenders is to be frank stupid, considering what even 5/50 defenders can do on flow.

But, yeah. Again, you'd need to have a picture of tier 5+ wars to understand that. The difference between tier 6- and tier 5+ is absurd.
Rubbish there only 4-5 reliable counters to flow wars how is that heavily impacting diversity on offense. Outside of tier 5 and above players do use the same 5-10 champs every war 5-10 out of 170+ does not equal diversity
First of all, yes that's exactly what I said. Defense tactics heavily impacted offensive diversity, negatively that is.

And as to the rest, that is neither my experience nor is it correct. Tier 6- allows for a lot of offensive diversity in comparison.
Tier 6 may allow for more offensive diversity but players rarely if ever take advantage of it. Players always default to their most used or best champs due to the competitive nature of AW. Just look at the attack teams your alliances use no matter what tier you’re on you won’t find more than 10 different champs being used every war among the 30 people in your alliance. With champs getting an offensive boost depending on the defense tactics there’s more incentive to bring in a different champ than what you would normally use of course that will depend on how good the boost is but the potential is there.

Look at it this way say for example Gamora is your favorite champ you would love to take her into war but the way the current set up is you wouldn’t do because you know she is not on the level of a ghost or quake and you know if she dies your alliance mates will hound you about bringing her into war. Now if kabam adds a boost that benefits her to the point where she’s on par with better champs you’re free to use her without worry. I’m not saying that will be the case but again the potential is there

The champs getting a boost are from the same class. Not a large number being affected with the way flow is still going strong.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Mr_Platypus said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:
Let's be honest. It hasn't been that long since every Attack Team was the Trinity. Only recently have Tactics caused people to shift what they're using. The most common practice is the "best" Attackers come out, and everyone uses them.
"The trinity"...? Which one? Do you even play this game? Be honest.
The Blade Trinity. Are you trying to follow?
Lmao. When was the last time you played aw?
Last night. I'm in Tier 6. We're also going to move on from that subject because I'm going to participate whether you approve or not.
Well I look forward to you going up to tier 5 lmao.
Although with the current matchmaking system you likely won’t face half the issues that everyone’s referring too.

I'm not really getting into Matchmaking. You can't say they're not going up against the same because you have to factor in what both sides are working with. That's not the same as comparing your Champs to theirs and saying it's easier for them. As for Tier 5, we won last night. Not going to lie, I'm not looking forward to it, but we'll play the best we can and take it as it comes. We don't play to lose. Lol.
I get it. I'm just saying at the moment, Flow is in play and it's not going to be adjusted until after the Season if at all. I'm also saying we haven't even seen Offense Tactics yet, so we don't know anything about them. They have the potential to encourage more Champs to be used. I'm open-minded.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Not once have I made that statement. I believe people. That's why I'm not looking forward to it. I've continually said I'm not arguing the feedback people have given.

GroundedWisdom · May 2020

Fair enough. Not Tactics perse, but I would see it as the same thing. Essentially you're getting more Points for successful Defense Tactics. Two sides of the same coin.

Wakandas_Finest · May 2020

KnightZero said:

Wakandas_Finest said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

Wakandas_Finest said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:
Defense tactics are supposed to encourage diversity is honestly the funniest sh*t I've heard today.

But it gets even better, because in the near future even offensive champs will benefit from them, meaning our offensive options will also become less diversity encouraging.

What kind of a joke even is that? Diversity literally becomes a complete non-factor in tier 5+. Not having defense tactics is what encourages diversity.

By the way we tanked our first war this season. And surprisingly enough, our opponent also only places a half-a**ed defense and only went for the bosses.

I couldn't help myself and still placed my 5/65 mojo as a boss in bg1 amongst mostly 1-2* champs. He still got 26 kills.
When has diversity ever been an issue for Offense? People use the same Champs regardless, overall. If anything, it will encourage more diversity. Unless I'm playing another game where Corvus isn't in every Attack Team.
Offensive diversity has already been heavily impacted by defense tactics. However, you need to have at least some tier 5 experience to comprehend that.

Now with additional bonuses in an already broken and horribly balanced system it is to be expected that there will also be an objectively best defense tactic in consideration of both defense and offense. Just as flow is objectively the best tactic to use, as in placing a diverse tactic or even somewhat decent non-flow defenders is to be frank stupid, considering what even 5/50 defenders can do on flow.

But, yeah. Again, you'd need to have a picture of tier 5+ wars to understand that. The difference between tier 6- and tier 5+ is absurd.
Rubbish there only 4-5 reliable counters to flow wars how is that heavily impacting diversity on offense. Outside of tier 5 and above players do use the same 5-10 champs every war 5-10 out of 170+ does not equal diversity
First of all, yes that's exactly what I said. Defense tactics heavily impacted offensive diversity, negatively that is.

And as to the rest, that is neither my experience nor is it correct. Tier 6- allows for a lot of offensive diversity in comparison.
Tier 6 may allow for more offensive diversity but players rarely if ever take advantage of it. Players always default to their most used or best champs due to the competitive nature of AW. Just look at the attack teams your alliances use no matter what tier you’re on you won’t find more than 10 different champs being used every war among the 30 people in your alliance. With champs getting an offensive boost depending on the defense tactics there’s more incentive to bring in a different champ than what you would normally use of course that will depend on how good the boost is but the potential is there.

Look at it this way say for example Gamora is your favorite champ you would love to take her into war but the way the current set up is you wouldn’t do because you know she is not on the level of a ghost or quake and you know if she dies your alliance mates will hound you about bringing her into war. Now if kabam adds a boost that benefits her to the point where she’s on par with better champs you’re free to use her without worry. I’m not saying that will be the case but again the potential is there
The champs getting a boost are from the same class. Not a large number being affected with the way flow is still going strong.

There are 36 champs in the game with the #control tag. That’s a About a fifth of the total champs available not really a small number comparatively speaking, but it’s not just that we don’t know what new tactics are coming or if they will be rotated to keep alliances from using the same 1 or 2 every war. Again there is potential there for a better aw experience we’ll have to see what kabam has in store.

I personally would set it up so that battle groups would have to use every tactic once before using a tactic twice in a season. That would add a new element of strategy to wars.

Amadeo01 · May 2020

So one area I'm confused is how Kabam KNOWS that defense tactics are working opposite to how they were intended. They were meant to increase diversity, not create a new static meta. But it was already made abundantly clear that with Flow, it is absolutely a new static meta, more than ever before. They are literally flow wars. However, knowing this, they still chose to start season 18 this way. I don't understand that at all.

KnightZero · May 2020

Wakandas_Finest said:

KnightZero said:

Wakandas_Finest said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

Wakandas_Finest said:

UmbertoDelRio said:

GroundedWisdom said:

UmbertoDelRio said:
Defense tactics are supposed to encourage diversity is honestly the funniest sh*t I've heard today.

But it gets even better, because in the near future even offensive champs will benefit from them, meaning our offensive options will also become less diversity encouraging.

What kind of a joke even is that? Diversity literally becomes a complete non-factor in tier 5+. Not having defense tactics is what encourages diversity.

By the way we tanked our first war this season. And surprisingly enough, our opponent also only places a half-a**ed defense and only went for the bosses.

I couldn't help myself and still placed my 5/65 mojo as a boss in bg1 amongst mostly 1-2* champs. He still got 26 kills.
When has diversity ever been an issue for Offense? People use the same Champs regardless, overall. If anything, it will encourage more diversity. Unless I'm playing another game where Corvus isn't in every Attack Team.
Offensive diversity has already been heavily impacted by defense tactics. However, you need to have at least some tier 5 experience to comprehend that.

Now with additional bonuses in an already broken and horribly balanced system it is to be expected that there will also be an objectively best defense tactic in consideration of both defense and offense. Just as flow is objectively the best tactic to use, as in placing a diverse tactic or even somewhat decent non-flow defenders is to be frank stupid, considering what even 5/50 defenders can do on flow.

But, yeah. Again, you'd need to have a picture of tier 5+ wars to understand that. The difference between tier 6- and tier 5+ is absurd.
Rubbish there only 4-5 reliable counters to flow wars how is that heavily impacting diversity on offense. Outside of tier 5 and above players do use the same 5-10 champs every war 5-10 out of 170+ does not equal diversity
First of all, yes that's exactly what I said. Defense tactics heavily impacted offensive diversity, negatively that is.

And as to the rest, that is neither my experience nor is it correct. Tier 6- allows for a lot of offensive diversity in comparison.
Tier 6 may allow for more offensive diversity but players rarely if ever take advantage of it. Players always default to their most used or best champs due to the competitive nature of AW. Just look at the attack teams your alliances use no matter what tier you’re on you won’t find more than 10 different champs being used every war among the 30 people in your alliance. With champs getting an offensive boost depending on the defense tactics there’s more incentive to bring in a different champ than what you would normally use of course that will depend on how good the boost is but the potential is there.

Look at it this way say for example Gamora is your favorite champ you would love to take her into war but the way the current set up is you wouldn’t do because you know she is not on the level of a ghost or quake and you know if she dies your alliance mates will hound you about bringing her into war. Now if kabam adds a boost that benefits her to the point where she’s on par with better champs you’re free to use her without worry. I’m not saying that will be the case but again the potential is there
The champs getting a boost are from the same class. Not a large number being affected with the way flow is still going strong.
There are 36 champs in the game with the #control tag. That’s a About a fifth of the total champs available not really a small number comparatively speaking, but it’s not just that we don’t know what new tactics are coming or if they will be rotated to keep alliances from using the same 1 or 2 every war. Again there is potential there for a better aw experience we’ll have to see what kabam has in store.

I personally would set it up so that battle groups would have to use every tactic once before using a tactic twice in a season. That would add a new element of strategy to wars.

Out of those 36, not many are good on offense. Boosting them vs control defenders still makes them useless vs other defenders. Rather have them boosted vs all defenders that way if you're doing that.
Also, setting it so that BG have switch tactics constantly makes it a pain for officers who need to make either a generalised defense which makes DT somewhat useless, or keep switching which makes it like homework.

Plantesan · May 2020

Amadeo01 said:
So one area I'm confused is how Kabam KNOWS that defense tactics are working opposite to how they were intended. They were meant to increase diversity, not create a new static meta. But it was already made abundantly clear that with Flow, it is absolutely a new static meta, more than ever before. They are literally flow wars. However, knowing this, they still chose to start season 18 this way. I don't understand that at all.

That’s why it would be nice if they did something similar to how they approach the AQ modifiers, but reduce the effectiveness to the tactic if used more than once during the AW week greatly.

Eventually that too would go stale, but would be something to think about

General Game Feedback [Merged Threads]

Comments