People that complete content on day 1 are part of the problem

No they are not a big part, but they are still a part of the current problems when it comes to stupid nodes and crazy attack scores.
If you were to design something, and want it to last you will think up stuff people will struggle with.
If then, a majority of endgame players rush to finish the content on the first day, or in the first week they will be left with no content to do.
I`m not saying it is the right way to handle the situation. But it is in a way understandable they went this route.
If people want to complete content on day one by using a crazy amount of revives/units/money they should. However. Do understand that there is a logical explanation nodes become increasingly more crazy, attack stats skyrocket, and healthpools in normal quests come close to ROL pools. They need to find a way to slow down the whales. If they don't, the whales would have nothing to spend on, the game will not make any money, and the game will die.
I am not saying what Kabam uses as a solution is the right one.
But by simply only looking at their half of the problem doesn`t seem right.
I am no Kabam warrior, I dislike a lot of decisions that were made like the removal of the gold rewards in aq and such (which do not even affect me)

The only other solution I have to the 2 sided problem is one I saw a youtuber mentioned. Just release normal story content without too crazy of nodes and attack power. But introduce a special Challenge mode with all the crazy stuff you can come up with and give people a title for that content. Not something like cavalier that changes something. Just like a legends title, and if you must with some little perks. Whales would still spend on the content, and rush the content. But it would not hurt the smaller spenders and f2p people. They could still have fun with the 'normal' content. And the whales can show their title and get their enjoyment out of the game because they can show their dedication to this game.

Comments

Worknprogress

Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)
We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
You can absolutely unit the grandmaster down though.
really? how? You have to complete challenges, get him wounded......
I don't see how you can do the fight without having at least a bit of skill. Unless you're talking about mercs......
You don't HAVE to get him wounded it would just be an insanely long fight without doing so. You still do damage while he isn't. The only part you can't actually unit down is the last phase but that's just playing keep away for a few seconds
the only really skill based thing in the 6.2 champion is that last 10%, which requires you to dex his special.
Which is more skill based? the GM or the champion.
Easily the champion. You'll eventually get the GM down and none of the "skills" required for the fight are particularly difficult really.

The champion fight though after almost a year still has plenty of people roadblocked. I don't know of a single person that got to the GM and had to back out bc they couldn't beat it
that just means that the champion fight is more BS. The beauty of the GM fight is that you can do it with any champ, and you don't need one or two specific counters
It's not BS it just requires a skill that isn't one of the most basic in the game like the GM fight does. If you can't dex, block, and parry by the end of 6.4, well just quit
I would like to see you try and do 6.2 champion with superior iron man. Come back when you're done

That's ridiculous to even state really. I'd like to see you take do you bleed Medusa with him. See I can make pointless hyperbolic statements too.

The champion fight requires learning a specific skill, getting dexterity off his specials in his final phase, it's also pass/fail. The grandmaster requires continually using some of the most basic skills in the game and regardless of whether you ever get very proficient at it you can eventually get him down. Saying the GM fight is more skill based is just silly.

It's much easier and doesn't require a champ counter but requiring a counter to a fight does not immediately make it BS either. That's a core part of this game, if it wasn't there would be no need whatsoever for more than one champ in the game and the game would have died years ago

unknown

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Worknprogress

Did I enjoy the GM fight more? Absolutely. We're not talking about what was more enjoyable though which is what some of you seem to have confused with skill based

Worknprogress

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.

Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.

Pulyaman

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.

Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters

Worknprogress

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters

This game is all about needing counters. As long as they aren't so specific or rare that only a handful of champs can counter a fight it's not a problem. There are lots of counters to that fight at this point.

Just bc a fight isn't 100% about skill doesn't mean it isn't skill based or BS. That's absurd. I used the do you bleed Medusa boss as an example earlier and I don't see you up in arms bc you HAVE to use specific type of champs there.

Bottom line is getting through the champion fight is more skill gated than the grandmaster which is the whole point of this current discussion. Even if you unit down the first 90% if you don't eventually learn to get 5 dexs in one fight, you never finish it. That's just not true with the GM fight

Werewrym

While the champion is 100% more skill based as opposed to GM, he is also 100% more counter specific. You really need a good counter or all the skill in the world doesn’t matter.

If there was a way to combine the two fights to obtain a highly skill based fight that doesn’t require a specific counter everything would be perfectly balanced.

Worknprogress

While the champion is 100% more skill based as opposed to GM, he is also 100% more counter specific. You really need a good counter or all the skill in the world doesn’t matter.

If there was a way to combine the two fights to obtain a highly skill based fight that doesn’t require a specific counter everything would be perfectly balanced.

Yeah that I'll absolutely agree on. You do need to counter certain aspects of the champion fight. I don't feel those counters are exclusive as lots of people make them out to be but a counter is needed.

WHOz_R4GE

People who complete content day 1 are the problem? Is this a troll thread? This can’t be real. Honestly I’m disappointed they delayed Act7, people need to develop their rosters and skill if they want to tackle end game content right away. All this entitlement for an easier game drives me crazy. If you aren’t skilled enough or have a roster developed enough to handle it, DONT DO IT. Let us who are enjoy the challenge.

Greekhit

We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly

It’s not exactly skill based. It’s a specific champion requirement fight in fact (not to mention a huge percentage of players took that fight down with the bugged She-Hulk,BWCV and MS). Also, it’s a ptw fight too, as spending thousands of units on the fight, will eventually bring result, unless you play the game with your toes 🤣

Pulyaman

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
This game is all about needing counters. As long as they aren't so specific or rare that only a handful of champs can counter a fight it's not a problem. There are lots of counters to that fight at this point.

Just bc a fight isn't 100% about skill doesn't mean it isn't skill based or BS. That's absurd. I used the do you bleed Medusa boss as an example earlier and I don't see you up in arms bc you HAVE to use specific type of champs there.

Bottom line is getting through the champion fight is more skill gated than the grandmaster which is the whole point of this current discussion. Even if you unit down the first 90% if you don't eventually learn to get 5 dexs in one fight, you never finish it. That's just not true with the GM fight

Sorry if I was not clear. But, I don't mind counters if they are a available in a wide range. Do you bleed has so many counters, not all of them good mind you but just make the fight longer. Champion boss requires a nullifying champs with either good block prof or regen during fight. Kabam are introducing more and more mystic champs that can counter him. But let's face it, rng makes it difficult to aim for champs.
Dexing him 5 times is another issue altogether. I already said my dexes weren't registering sometimes, add to the fact that some champs have easier time dexing than others. I don't have a problem with the fight itself being what it is. But calling it a purely skill based is not correct. Whether it is more skilled based than GM or not is not something I can say because I have not reached that point. So, I am not going to go into that

Worknprogress

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
This game is all about needing counters. As long as they aren't so specific or rare that only a handful of champs can counter a fight it's not a problem. There are lots of counters to that fight at this point.

Just bc a fight isn't 100% about skill doesn't mean it isn't skill based or BS. That's absurd. I used the do you bleed Medusa boss as an example earlier and I don't see you up in arms bc you HAVE to use specific type of champs there.

Bottom line is getting through the champion fight is more skill gated than the grandmaster which is the whole point of this current discussion. Even if you unit down the first 90% if you don't eventually learn to get 5 dexs in one fight, you never finish it. That's just not true with the GM fight
Sorry if I was not clear. But, I don't mind counters if they are a available in a wide range. Do you bleed has so many counters, not all of them good mind you but just make the fight longer. Champion boss requires a nullifying champs with either good block prof or regen during fight. Kabam are introducing more and more mystic champs that can counter him. But let's face it, rng makes it difficult to aim for champs.
Dexing him 5 times is another issue altogether. I already said my dexes weren't registering sometimes, add to the fact that some champs have easier time dexing than others. I don't have a problem with the fight itself being what it is. But calling it a purely skill based is not correct. Whether it is more skilled based than GM or not is not something I can say because I have not reached that point. So, I am not going to go into that

That's not even true bc neither Loki or Hood have amazing block prof or regen and both have been used for the champion fight. It's convenient to have those things but not even slightly necessary

Worknprogress

We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
It’s not exactly skill based. It’s a specific champion requirement fight in fact (not to mention a huge percentage of players took that fight down with the bugged She-Hulk,BWCV and MS). Also, it’s a ptw fight too, as spending thousands of units on the fight, will eventually bring result, unless you play the game with your toes 🤣

Posts like this are why the majority of the playerbase aren't taken seriously at all.

Greekhit

Posts like this are why the majority of the playerbase aren't taken seriously at all.

Ooh toxicity 😆 truth hurts 🤣

Notsavage19

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters

But there has to be fights that require certain counters. There would be no need for new characters if fights were doable with anybody, like the GM.

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Pulyaman

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
But there has to be fights that require certain counters. There would be no need for new characters if fights were doable with anybody, like the GM.

Then the acquisition of said counters also has to be somewhat easy. I still don't have loki or hood, two moderate counters for champ as per people here. I got SS after initial completion of 6.2 so things will be easier next time.But not everyone is that lucky

Pulyaman

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
This game is all about needing counters. As long as they aren't so specific or rare that only a handful of champs can counter a fight it's not a problem. There are lots of counters to that fight at this point.

Just bc a fight isn't 100% about skill doesn't mean it isn't skill based or BS. That's absurd. I used the do you bleed Medusa boss as an example earlier and I don't see you up in arms bc you HAVE to use specific type of champs there.

Bottom line is getting through the champion fight is more skill gated than the grandmaster which is the whole point of this current discussion. Even if you unit down the first 90% if you don't eventually learn to get 5 dexs in one fight, you never finish it. That's just not true with the GM fight
Sorry if I was not clear. But, I don't mind counters if they are a available in a wide range. Do you bleed has so many counters, not all of them good mind you but just make the fight longer. Champion boss requires a nullifying champs with either good block prof or regen during fight. Kabam are introducing more and more mystic champs that can counter him. But let's face it, rng makes it difficult to aim for champs.
Dexing him 5 times is another issue altogether. I already said my dexes weren't registering sometimes, add to the fact that some champs have easier time dexing than others. I don't have a problem with the fight itself being what it is. But calling it a purely skill based is not correct. Whether it is more skilled based than GM or not is not something I can say because I have not reached that point. So, I am not going to go into that
That's not even true bc neither Loki or Hood have amazing block prof or regen and both have been used for the champion fight. It's convenient to have those things but not even slightly necessary

Hood and Loki can regen. Hood has it in his toolkit and Loki can steal regen from champion. But, I have not seen many videos of Loki one shot. One of the video was that of my alliance mate and he had CAIW in his team.

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danielmath

@Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.
I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
says the one in 4loki

nearly spit out my water reading this, WNP is alright but top tier? get outa here with that nonsense!

Werewrym

Maybe make some content where you CANNOT USE any Revives/Heals.

It would then be just based on pure skill and strength of team as to how far you can get.
And if your team dies, them you have to start all over and try again. And again, and again...

Not sure where the money would come from, maybe from having to buy more Energy Refills instead of Potions. Or maybe limited number of free entrance tickets after which you would have to buy more (with Units, or ultimately money if you run out of units)
We have a fight that's based on skill and is pass/fail, 6.2.6 champion. It's also one of the most hated fights by the community. You guys can keep asking for "skill to be rewarded" but when you get it and can't beat something, just cry about it constantly
there's another skill based fight - 6.4 grandmaster. Everyone loves it
You can absolutely unit the grandmaster down though.
really? how? You have to complete challenges, get him wounded......
I don't see how you can do the fight without having at least a bit of skill. Unless you're talking about mercs......
You don't HAVE to get him wounded it would just be an insanely long fight without doing so. You still do damage while he isn't. The only part you can't actually unit down is the last phase but that's just playing keep away for a few seconds
I think the reason people like the grandmaster more then the champion is that pretty much any champion can do it
I liked the champion fight outside of no retreat though
Oh I get that completely. My point was just that "the community" doesn't always actually want what they ask for. The champion fight is just a prime example of that. They want skill based but still with a unit safety net in the end in actuality
His fight is a huge problem because the number of possible counter for it is way too narrow, his block penetration is way too high and the challenge to dex his short-range multi-hit special attack is annoying and not fun.

You can’t really make a generic statement like this and apply it to all players. While I do agree that the fight requires a specific counter if you want to beat him, I don’t think that inherently means the fight is not skill based. No retreat node aside the fight is actually highly skill based especially in the last 10%.

The issue a lot of people run into is not putting in any time to practice. If you want something skill based that doesn’t mean that it will require no practice. What tells me this fight is, in fact, skill based is that the skills you need to beat Champion can be obtained by dedicating time to practice. I beat champion every one of my runs with very minimal item use (excluding no retreat) because I spent time practicing.

Worknprogress

@Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.
I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
says the one in 4loki
nearly spit out my water reading this, WNP is alright but top tier? get outa here with that nonsense!

I certainly didn't agree with it lol

lowlevelplayer

@Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.
I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
says the one in 4loki
nearly spit out my water reading this, WNP is alright but top tier? get outa here with that nonsense!

top tier doesn't mean top 100 imo. When I say top tier, I mean completion/100% of all content, in a top alliance, and knows just about anything to know about the game

Notsavage19

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
But there has to be fights that require certain counters. There would be no need for new characters if fights were doable with anybody, like the GM.
Then the acquisition of said counters also has to be somewhat easy. I still don't have loki or hood, two moderate counters for champ as per people here. I got SS after initial completion of 6.2 so things will be easier next time.But not everyone is that lucky

Why though? Act 6 is a test of roster breadth. That's why they don't allow 4*s. Why should Kabam make it any easier to obtain the right champs?

danielmath

@Worknprogress the definition of a “skill based fight” in this community is somewhat weird.

To most, a “skill based fight” is a fight that, without the right amount of skill, cannot be passed by anyone, and is a challenging fight.

To most aspiring members of this community, a “skill based fight” is one which is challenging that they can complete (the last part is the most important part lol).

Why the Grandmaster fight is celebrated? Cause he’s easy. He only tests you on 3 skills, parry/block, intercept, get hit (whether this is a “skill” or not is up for debate), which arguably are the core fundamentals on which this game is built on. Dexing specials, nope, not a core skill (even a champ like RG is introduced to block the unblockable).

So yeah, I’m hoping for more “skill based fights” like the Champion, which requires a ton of hard work, practice, and absolutely gates those without the right skill and roster out.
I'll be the absolute last person to call myself a top tier player
says the one in 4loki
nearly spit out my water reading this, WNP is alright but top tier? get outa here with that nonsense!
top tier doesn't mean top 100 imo. When I say top tier, I mean completion/100% of all content, in a top alliance, and knows just about anything to know about the game

he's in my alliance, trust me when i say he knows nothing

TheTalents

The Champion fight is not that skilled based at all. Give everyone perfect block and they could complete the fight. You just need the right champs. When you remove the block damage where's the skill needed? Please explain?

Monk1

The Champion fight is not that skilled based at all. Give everyone perfect block and they could complete the fight. You just need the right champs. When you remove the block damage where's the skill needed? Please explain?

U just answered your own question. Everyone don’t have perfect t block, cause you can’t just block you need the skill to evade and dex at right moment and manage/counter his mechanics

TheTalents

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
This game is all about needing counters. As long as they aren't so specific or rare that only a handful of champs can counter a fight it's not a problem. There are lots of counters to that fight at this point.

Just bc a fight isn't 100% about skill doesn't mean it isn't skill based or BS. That's absurd. I used the do you bleed Medusa boss as an example earlier and I don't see you up in arms bc you HAVE to use specific type of champs there.

Bottom line is getting through the champion fight is more skill gated than the grandmaster which is the whole point of this current discussion. Even if you unit down the first 90% if you don't eventually learn to get 5 dexs in one fight, you never finish it. That's just not true with the GM fight
Sorry if I was not clear. But, I don't mind counters if they are a available in a wide range. Do you bleed has so many counters, not all of them good mind you but just make the fight longer. Champion boss requires a nullifying champs with either good block prof or regen during fight. Kabam are introducing more and more mystic champs that can counter him. But let's face it, rng makes it difficult to aim for champs.
Dexing him 5 times is another issue altogether. I already said my dexes weren't registering sometimes, add to the fact that some champs have easier time dexing than others. I don't have a problem with the fight itself being what it is. But calling it a purely skill based is not correct. Whether it is more skilled based than GM or not is not something I can say because I have not reached that point. So, I am not going to go into that
That's not even true bc neither Loki or Hood have amazing block prof or regen and both have been used for the champion fight. It's convenient to have those things but not even slightly necessary

If you're talking initial clear. To 100% clear Loki and Hood are not counters for no retreat. Anybody can do inital clear with any mystic champion with md4 or above.

Pulyaman

People commenting the champion is skill based are absolutely wrong..it's not a skill fight..if it was many more would complete it and there would be less complaints. I agree many are complaining simply to complain..but that fight required skill and a huge bit of luck to get the required champion. I know 3 or 4 main people get in every post and say thats an skill based gate..but it's really not. We see the grandmaster fight done with all kinds of champion..I am yet to see the champion fight with even mid tier Champs. For me..the champion fight was good..I felt that dexing is special did not register many times..and I have seen people complain about the same thing.. If his specials were projectile based..it would make it easier. All I am seeing here is people who have completed act 6 looking down on people asking the fight to be made easier. Do I think the fight is tough? Yes.. Should it be nerfed? Only interms of removing no retreat and spite. Do I care if they nerf it? Nope. I know I will eventually explore that.
Most people consider Hood mid tier at best and I personally know multiple people who've used him to beat the champion. People have also used Loki.

Do certain champs make the fight easier? Sure but most of the champs people claim are NEEDED just aren't in reality.
Again, You NEED certain champ to do the fight. if it was really just skill based, we would be seeing Swedeah doing that fight with Kamala khan. I think you missed my main point in that it is not purely skill based. And there is no point in gating players from progressing in story mode when its not even just skill. If you want to give players will good skill and roster a challenge? Give maze every month with insane rewards. You don't stop people progressing in the main mode of the game.
I would call grandmaster fight a gate, purely because as you said, it requires basic skills to progress. Champion fight does not do that.
I get the point that it should not be an easy fight and it should not be done with unit man either. But the fight must end at some point. I heard a suggestion that every time you died the counter should increase and it should decrease for the dex. There must be some mechanism to make the fight possible. At its current state, its just impossible if you dont have a specific set of counters
But there has to be fights that require certain counters. There would be no need for new characters if fights were doable with anybody, like the GM.
Then the acquisition of said counters also has to be somewhat easy. I still don't have loki or hood, two moderate counters for champ as per people here. I got SS after initial completion of 6.2 so things will be easier next time.But not everyone is that lucky
Why though? Act 6 is a test of roster breadth. That's why they don't allow 4*s. Why should Kabam make it any easier to obtain the right champs?

I already explained the same. How do you measure roster breadth though? If the act forced you to use all your champs? sure. But, if they keep narrowing the requirements for the fights, then they are testing rng. People may counter me here and say, the more you open, the more chances of you getting the champ. But, even that's not true is it. I just said I don't have Loki or hood as a 5 star and I have opened 100s of 5 stars, legendary, grandmaster, cavalier and featured cavalier crystals. It is even possible that I may never land a loki, hood or a corvus as a 5 star or 6 star. But, I have over 100 5 star champs. When do you consider your roster wide enough? You cannot decide that because you only required rng to be on your side and even opening 10 5 stars you could have an answer to all the nodes in act 6, which is wrong.

TheTalents

The Champion fight is not that skilled based at all. Give everyone perfect block and they could complete the fight. You just need the right champs. When you remove the block damage where's the skill needed? Please explain?
U just answered your own question. Everyone don’t have perfect t block, cause you can’t just block you need the skill to evade and dex at right moment and manage/counter his mechanics

You're also forgetting the dex doesn't register everytime if you dodge the headbutt. Its a bs fight. If you play it a bunch of times like we all did he eventually goes down.
Give grandmaster 50k attk and lets see which fight involves more skill. This praising of the champion fight is annoying. I swear yall think it deserves a gold medal. Just cause you beat the champion doesn't mean you're better.