Act 6: Grandmaster Boss Fight Feedback Thread

Hello Summoners!

I’m reaching out on behalf of the Grandmaster in regards to his challenge in Act 6. If you’re a Summoner that has completed Act 6 and has some time, we would really appreciate your feedback on this fight!

We’d like to leave this open-ended and gather raw feedback on every aspect of the fight. However, if you’re not sure where to start, these questions might help out!

What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
What would you change in the fight?
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?

Thank you for taking the time to give us your thoughts and feedback!

Comments

ExHavok

1 ) What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
- I was able to hit more than 150k with my basic attacks and unlike other fights in 6.3 and 6.4 I was able to make mistakes 2-3 times in a fight, 5 combo from opponent didn't kill me.
2 ) What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
- Getting 3 times Well Timed Blocks when I had %2 hp. RNG feels a bit annoying in a moment like that.
3 ) What would you change in the fight?
- I would increase Wounded timer +1 seconds per phase. And of course I would put a path that teleports directly to Grandmaster like 4.3.6 Venom map, I've like to fight him more but paths are getting my nerves a lot.
4 ) What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
- Challenges, fights that summoners just can't buy their way outs, like Champion %10 but without unstoppable of course,lol.
5 ) After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
- After getting nothing from 5-6 stars , frustrated. I believe defeating a boss like Grandmaster should give something more. Defeating him 6 times, even more.
6 ) How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
- Besides the node decrease Wounded timer, fights were similar. Decreasing Wounded state time is increasing the time you spend in fight and it's get harder to concentrate.

Steel_22

1) What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?

Definitely the fact that we got rewarded for doing things well in the fight by increasing our damage output. Also unlike other act 6 bosses, he didn't have an unreasonable attack value.

2) What aspect of the fight was the most frustrating?

I don't like to be told when to intercept, it should be natural.

3) What would I change?

the whole prompt idea is awesome, make some more interesting ones

4) Future boss fights?

nodes that don't eliminate so much of people's rosters, ways to reward players for fighting the fight well and similar attack values.

5) After defeating the grandmaster how did you feel?

Definitely proud, it felt much more like an accomplishment, whereas boss fights like the champion, sinister, darkhawk was more like 'well i'm lucky i had the right champ for that fight'

6) How did each path and the associated linked nodes change your experience?

The linked node idea was cool, definitely something that should be explored in the future. Tbh each grandmaster fight didn't really feel that much different

Bendy

What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy? I mostly enjoyed phase 2 of this fight due to i didnt have to try intercepting for competence

What aspect of the fight was most frustrating? Phase 1 trying to get the intercepts and having the grandmaster to follow in to earn the competence

What would you change in the fight? I wouldnt change anything on this fight personally as its a good challenge as it is

What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights? Fights like this where its down to how the player fights instead of needing a certain counter to get through

After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel? It felt like a good challenge without any real tough nodes where it makes it 1 counter but a whole load of champs can do this fight if ur patient enough

How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience? Didnt change much experience as no nodes really changed the fight but a few like the ones that lower the mission failures or max competence stacks that made it more risky or more focused throughout the fight

Mainzel

Honestly I really enjoyed the fight.
The only thing that I think is anoying is the instand death if you get too many tokens of blunder i would have prefered it if the grandmaster just would have doupled or trippled his stats. But that is really just nitpicking.

Aykut_T

GRANDMASTER dövüşü, benim turnuvadaki en çok keyif aldığım bölümlerden biriydi. Çünkü bağlantı gelmeden, sadece rakibin özelliklerine göre bir savaş yapmalıydık. Kısacası el becerisini gösterebileceğimiz bir savaş oldu.

Bu rakibe karşı savaş içeriğinde hoşuma gitmeyen bir durum olmadı. Rakibin özelliklerini okuyarak, bu özelliklere karşı görevleri yapmaya çalıştık. Tabi ki ilk defa savaştığımızda alışmak için bir süre geçti ancak daha sonra aslında kolay ve zevkli olduğunu gördük.

Umarım bundan sonraki macera ve etkinliklerde son patron bu şekilde olur. Yani abartılmış bağlantılar ile değil, gerçek rakiplerle savaşırız.

Katzastrophe_Od1n

1 - nothing much... except the big yellow numbers

2 - the unblockable sp1 that always gets you, when you perform a dashback and instantly die.
The passive AI.
Always getting ko'd 2 sec before he gets wounded
To use 8 team revs with boosts and 5x R5 champs

3 - scale down the attack rating, such a bs move that u need to fully heal up your R5 champs to get to one wounded state.

4 - dont do that again

5 - glad that its over

6 - you really think i go for exploration?

Personally i hated the fight against GM. I can honestly say i got average skills in this game, like i needed 3 revives for 6.2 champion boss after 0 practice against him. But GM was such a horrible fight with 1000 units lost. Ofc i had no practice against him, except some video footage from bg and lags.
Maybe i have too less skill but how can u play around unblockable l1s then he throws the moment u dash back. Instant death or if you survive u get 3 or 4 blunders....

Really not enjoyable, champion boss was a walk in the park

Thicco_Mode

Tldr for devs:
Skill=good
Limited counters based on rng=bad
All problems have now been solved. No need to thank me

stexvel

A little intro: The night when 6.4 came out, i went through Masochism path and finished GM with 8 revives. Funny, just today i did my second path (tenacity/cosmic opponents), ended up using 6 revives i had in stash, so i can say i have a fresh opinion. Did 6.1, 6.2, 6.3 100%, and working slowly towards 6.4 100%. I'm not at the top of this game, but i consider myself as pretty skilled player.
What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
I enjoyed the challenge system. None of the challenges was too hard to do, you get the reward for completing the challenge and you get punished for not completing it. I think this should be the guideline for the future nodes design. Do not design the nodes that just punish the players, design nodes that reward playing by the rules. Or even playing with certain champion classes or by using certain abilities. You did that earlier: Power shield, Recharge, Flare, bleed/poison vulnerability etc.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
Inverted controls. To be honest, i dont have a problem with inverted controls, the problem is that you get inverted in the most awkward situations. The timer for inverted controls is way too long (40+ seconds) and when you're about to go inverted, you don't know if it's gonna happen in 2 seconds or in 5 seconds. And in this fight, every second matters.
What would you change in the fight?
There are 2 things:
1. considering the inverted controls, maybe add a timer that starts counting 5 seconds before you get inverted. That would help a lot of players plan out their next moves. That way, we would all know much better if we should bait out his sp1 and not worry about inverted, or just wait it out.
2. Recently, there was an AI change which i will try to explain. Let's say you wanna bait out your opponent's special attack. You dex back when he comes at you with his medium attack. After that, some opponents throw their light attack (or a few light attacks: I'm talking about you Annihilus and Captain Marvel) so we consider their AI as aggressive. That's fine. Sometimes your opponent dashes back after his first medium. That's fine too. The AI problem is this: When he dashes at you with his medium, you dex back, and he waits for almost a second, and then he throws his second medium. You're expecting him to dash back after his first medium or throw a light immediately after his first medium. There is this delay between opponent's basic attacks that's way too long. Now i notice this everywhere in game (especially map5) but today that was freaking me out in Grandmaster fight. Now this happens with us too. I'm sure we all tried throwing a medium attack, and then after a second throwing it again, but we throw our second medium instead of first. I think that animation timing between starting and finishing a combo was prolonged in some way. Of course its made to catch us off guard, but at least something can be done in the high stakes fight such as Grandmaster.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
Definitely types of linked nodes that tweak the bosses abilities. I still didn't do the no power link, and i know its gonna be rough, but that's the fun of it. Please don't make the same mistake as in 6.2.6 by adding No retreat or Spite or any other generic node.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
To be honest, i didn't think i could do it at least for the first month. When I finally did it, i was really proud of myself.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
The same spirit as entire act6: every path has its own few counters. If you have them, you're gonna be fine. If you don't, wait until you get them. That's not okay, but i think its acceptable. Whats not acceptable is too high attack values. I didn't like the bubble shield node combination with crazy high attack values.
Conclusion:
I do not know if its possible, but for all those people who already did the entire quest 100%, give them a path direct to the Grandmaster. The fight is so nice, that i think everyone will jump into it. And it doesn't affect you, since you will be giving it only to those who did all the paths first.
For the end:
in all other boss fights: when you make a mistake and get combo'd - you die instantly and you hate Kabam.
in Grandmaster fight: - when you make a mistake and get combo'd - you still have a chance to survive and you hate yourself for slipping up.
PS: Sorry for the long post.

DalBot

Request: in the future please put out polls like this closer to the time after they were released. I finished this content months ago and honestly my memory of the specifics of the fight and the paths aren't as fresh.

Mauled

What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
Hitting massive numbers is always fun. Having DoT do damage would have been cool and removing the damage cap would have been awesome - hitting 1m with Proxima would have been epic.
Thematically, I most enjoy playing champions that I can’t actually play - it just adds a bit more spice to it.
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
The initial learning phase was quite difficult. In itself that’s not necessarily frustrating, it’s a hard fight and that’s fine because it’s not limiting your champion options, what’s most frustrating is that I have to go through a long, hard lane to learn it which is why I imagine for most people’s initial clears it probably cost a lot of revives.

What would you change in the fight?
I would have made the SP1 not reset your combo when you correctly receive hits as this resets Star Lord/Proxima/Aegon’s combos and removed the damage cap.

What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
Single fight quests that don’t come at the end of a long path. With Act 7 looking like it’s having 3 quests per chapter, instead of having 3 bosses at the end of the regular quests, dispensing with the mini bosses and just having the path end and then the next quest just being a unique boss fight with a unique non playable champion with no real steps would be cool.

After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
In terms of pure gameplay Satisfaction, it was probably the most satisfying boss kill that I’ve had.

How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
They didn’t make a huge impact on the boss fight itself beyond roster requirements to get through. I would have loved the Grandmaster to have been a single step fight, one big finale that doesn’t require a full energy refill each time, especially for a unique fight with pretty hard mechanics.

unknown

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Justapilgrim

You guys will take our feedback and do absolutely nothing with it, like you've done time and again. But if you must, knowing that:

I think you guys should make Act 7 so that you hVr to buy tickets for each time you want to fight the next node on the map. Bosses are double tickets. And tickets can only be gotten with units.

16 paths per chapter. and 6 energy per step. Filled with tons of passive buffs and debuffs so they cannot be shrugged or nullified. Massive health pools with tons of attack and block penetration.

Syndicated

Well, in few words, Grand master is the opposite of 6.2.6 The champion.

gohard123

Very good fight and skill based. It didn't seem punishing especially with the lower attack values compared to other fights in act 6. Only thing I could count as 'frustrating' is when you get hit my block and he turtles up but you need to bait sp1 due to his power gain. Definitely not frustrating but that was the only thing I could think of. Felt great after beating the Grandmaster because it felt like a great culmination of act 6.

Edit: One thing I would change is when you miss the dex on sp1, you still get the token of incompetence for the 'get hit' requirement.

altavista

What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
I liked how it was skill based as opposed to champion based. It did not require specific champions, but practice. The different phases of the fight made it interesting and not boring.
Token system rewards you for doing skillful actions by being able to do more damage.
The Grandmaster's specials aren't one hit K.O.s
What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
Timer of reverse controls always seemed to line up completing 5th challenge.
The AI seemed a bit inconsistent.
What would you change in the fight?
Change the timer of the reverse control.
What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
Token system.
After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
Sense of accomplishment.
How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
Tried two paths (Cosmic and Mystic). Was not prepared for Mystic node, as not being able to gain power limited my champions.

Syed

What I loved about this fight?
This is probably the best and most enjoyable fight in entire game, because you can bring in any champion and still beat grand Master.

What part is most frustrating?
If i have to find one, probably that would be inverted controls

What would i change in this fight?
I would probably change blunder tokens

What would i want see in future boss?
A boss that can be defeated using any champion no restrictions to any one specific champion.

How did i feel after defeating GM?
I felt sense of achievement that i have done something remarkable in the game.

How did each link on path changed fight?
Didn’t feel much of difference with links.

unknown

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Stuch

1. Most enjoyable part: The idea of having to do certain things stood out to me, and the grandmaster's sp1 was an amazing example of this as it was very fun to play around.
2. Most frustrating part: Easily the reverse controls in phase 3, as it would mess up your flow, kill you before you get to wounded phase, and sometimes it would start at the worst times, like right before or after a special. (2nd worse thing was phase 3 power gain)
3. What I would change- I'd take out the inverted controls and passive power gain in phase 3 (just regular power), and I'd make him more aggressive in phase 4.
4. I want to see more boss fights that make you play in a certain way, and don't punish you too much if you block them wrong or take a hit.
5. When I beat the Grandmaster I was excited by my accomplishment and the rewards, and I was relieved that I got through the last phase (which was just annoying and killed the momentum).
6. I have only done the path with 2 nodes: Technique and Liability; Technique made the fight WAY longer, which made things a lot harder and less fun. Liability made it a little annoying when I'd get hit by the sp1 (because of reverse controls), but it wasn't too bad, and the benefit of keeping 10 tokens was pretty helpful when the sp3 killed me.

unknown

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Peteyaces_72

First of all, thank you for taking our feedback to improve the game.

1) What aspect of the fight did you enjoy the most?

The fight was a lot of fun in general. A lot of people have referenced that the fight was able to be done by nearly any champion, that the attack value made it so a mistake doesn’t result in a death by 1 combo or a block doesn’t result in 20% lost health.

For me, the thing I enjoyed the most was the wounded phase for a couple reasons. First, everyone loves to see big numbers and when you’re playing with Marvel Superheroes, you want to feel powerful. Wounded was also nice because it felt like my good gameplay was rewarded throughout the fight. Finally, if genuinely felt like a boss fight. Against an enemy with crazy health with ways of getting him down. It was almost RPG-like.

2) What was most frustrating?

The reverse controls was frustrating. I don’t find that element fun in any area of the game.

3) What would you change?

I would change the reverse controls. For me it was the only part of the fight that I genuinely hated. With so much going on the fight takes focus which is good but my brain just can’t get the reverse control down to a point that is passable.

4) What do you want to see in future boss fights?

I love the idea of finding ways to temporarily improve damage to take big chunks out of higher health bosses. Every fight doesn’t need to be like the grandmaster and/or have wounded phases but it would be cool to implement unique advantages. For example, bringing in the arch enemy of a boss might give some specific advantage. Perhaps if the boss was magneto, any member of the x-men are granted a special ability like 100% damage increase for x amount of seconds after launching a special 3.

Again, every boss doesn’t need to be as unique as grandmaster but I’d like to see bosses with unique challenges that aren’t so punishing that I want to quit.

5) how did you feel after grandmaster?

I felt good. I was really happy that his attack value was manageable and that it was a unique fight.

Kabam Broccoli

Thank you all for the overwhelming response so far, I want to address something I see going on here...

The goal of this thread is not to put a spotlight on something we know you all love and pat ourselves on the back, I'm using this to measure WHY you loved it, and how we as a team can do more of it.

Other game issues will be addressed separately, this thread is not trying to take anything away from those issues but It's important to understand not every piece of content is created by the same designer or team of designers. We hear you and are working to improve your experience in all avenues of the game!

As the designer of the Grandmaster fight, my goal in this thread specifically is to capture the most loved and hated aspects of the fight and use these to help establish best practices that the WHOLE team can use in future boss fights and questing content.

Thank you all for the feedback so far and remember, we're making a videogame for entertainment purposes and we want you guys to love it!

unknown

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StevieManWonder

Thank you all for the overwhelming response so far, I want to address something I see going on here...

The goal of this thread is not to put a spotlight on something we know you all love and pat ourselves on the back, I'm using this to measure WHY you loved it, and how we as a team can do more of it.

Other game issues will be addressed separately, this thread is not trying to take anything away from those issues but It's important to understand not every piece of content is created by the same designer or team of designers. We hear you and are working to improve your experience in all avenues of the game!

As the designer of the Grandmaster fight, my goal in this thread specifically is to capture the most loved and hated aspects of the fight and use these to help establish best practices that the WHOLE team can use in future boss fights and questing content.

Thank you all for the feedback so far and remember, we're making a videogame for entertainment purposes and we want you guys to love it!

In that case, the only thing I genuinely hated about the Grandmaster fight is that his Sp2 serves no purpose other than to punish you. It can’t be dodged or evaded and it’s too long for the Heimdall synergy to save you if you are unfortunate enough to get to it. A lot of times, the Grandmaster would get to a sp2 simply because he wouldn’t throw his sp1 no matter how much I tried to bait it. That was the most frustrating part of the fight.

BrianGrant

Grandmaster is my favorite fight in the game. Lot of little reasons why, but the biggest reason by far is the pacing. I didn't instantly die if I made a mistake, and the block damage was bearable. It gave me time to get my bearings and figure out the fight mechanics and improve mid fight. That's so rare in end game content. Normally if you make a mistake, it's game ending or so close to it that you have to play without taking a blocked hit or something.

FightingHornet

Why asked feedback of GM fight? the problem with act 6 is not the GM fight, in fact lot of endgamers already said it, it was make sense and fun to fight, the problem with act 6 is the other asshat bosses

unknown

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Rasilover

Thank you all for the overwhelming response so far, I want to address something I see going on here...

The goal of this thread is not to put a spotlight on something we know you all love and pat ourselves on the back, I'm using this to measure WHY you loved it, and how we as a team can do more of it.

Other game issues will be addressed separately, this thread is not trying to take anything away from those issues but It's important to understand not every piece of content is created by the same designer or team of designers. We hear you and are working to improve your experience in all avenues of the game!

As the designer of the Grandmaster fight, my goal in this thread specifically is to capture the most loved and hated aspects of the fight and use these to help establish best practices that the WHOLE team can use in future boss fights and questing content.

Thank you all for the feedback so far and remember, we're making a videogame for entertainment purposes and we want you guys to love it!

Goated content designer

Rasilover

Thank you all for the overwhelming response so far, I want to address something I see going on here...

The goal of this thread is not to put a spotlight on something we know you all love and pat ourselves on the back, I'm using this to measure WHY you loved it, and how we as a team can do more of it.

Other game issues will be addressed separately, this thread is not trying to take anything away from those issues but It's important to understand not every piece of content is created by the same designer or team of designers. We hear you and are working to improve your experience in all avenues of the game!

As the designer of the Grandmaster fight, my goal in this thread specifically is to capture the most loved and hated aspects of the fight and use these to help establish best practices that the WHOLE team can use in future boss fights and questing content.

Thank you all for the feedback so far and remember, we're making a videogame for entertainment purposes and we want you guys to love it!

In that case, the only thing I genuinely hated about the Grandmaster fight is that his Sp2 serves no purpose other than to punish you. It can’t be dodged or evaded and it’s too long for the Heimdall synergy to save you if you are unfortunate enough to get to it. A lot of times, the Grandmaster would get to a sp2 simply because he wouldn’t throw his sp1 no matter how much I tried to bait it. That was the most frustrating part of the fight.

You need Nightcrawler to evade it

Vsahishnu_G

What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?

I loved how easy it is to understand the fight. I know there is a lot going on with the missions and special attacks but all of it is understandable for any new player (if they read it through). This fight was really enjoyable than many other ones in 6.2 and 6.3.

What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?

None. This fight was perfect. This fight is by far the best one I have had after the Thanos on monthly EQ.

What would you change in the fight?

Only thing i will change is, make it so that special 1 is never unblockble. Many new players who are progressing fast wont be able to adapt. e.g. cyclops sp1, dr doom sp1, iceman sp1. All these are easy to evade but need to practice on the timing first. Since its hard to get grandmaster and practice, make it so that its less painful.

What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?

I am personally happy with all the boss fight in 6.4 compared to 6.2 and 6.3 except darkhawk fight. if you don't have a good counter then you will up spending a fortune.

After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?

It felt soo good that i now want to do it over and over again. i opened 4 5* and 2 6* crystals. All the champs i got were new which was a plus but non of them will help me. Not a single one of them i got will help me even beat a specific path/node. That was the only bad thing for me, doing act 6.4 complition.

How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?

I haven't touched 6.4 after i did my complition run. But one thing is for sure. please make it so that you can easily reach grandmaster. it will help soo much. Like what you guys did on act 4.3.6 venom quest. Have a easy path for beginners. For my complition run, i took the lifecycle path with Killmonger as mini boss. all the fights on that path was ok other than the killmonger himself. He costed me 400 units even tho i was boosted.

Overall I will give:
this fight alone 10/10,
this quest and its linked nodes 7/10
and whole 6.4 complition experience 9/10.

Been playing mcoc 1 month after its launch but had a few breaks. Mostly free to play.
Btw this is my 1st comment in forums.

Tomtom1979

What aspect of the fight did you most enjoy?
The fact that it can be done with pretty much any champion in your roster. It's therefore purely a measure of skill which made it a fun challenge that didn't require a niche champion and/or synergy

What aspect of the fight was most frustrating?
Inverted controls, but that's because I'm rubbish with them. Training my brain to do something different at my old age is a struggle!

What would you change in the fight?
Inflicting a damage over time debuff objective, when you're locked to only using an sp1. Maybe this should have just been inflict a debuff, so someone like Void or using the Resonate mastery wouldn't cost you a Blunder

What kind of things do you want to see more of in future Boss Fights?
Accessibility; with the breadth of champions available in a very RNG-heavy environment, we shouldn't be subject to 1 or 2 specific champions to use, that act as a direct counter to a set of base kit and/or ridiculous nodes on top. This fight is an ideal template for a boss fight; high health, low attack, different phases, no stupid nodes that punish you just for playing the game.

After finally defeating the Grandmaster how did you feel?
It felt good, a feeling quickly eradicated by opening rewards and receiving nothing that would help with full exploration or other content in the game (given how pretty much everything else at this level, aside from the GM fight, is roster & wallet specific)

How did each path and their associated Linked Nodes change your experience?
The paths themselves were a drag with overly inflated attack & health & annoying nodes added on top. Having to plough through poor fight/node design just to reach the GM fight was frustrating and did suck some of the enjoyment away from the GM fight. As for the associated linked nodes on GM, they were good and pretty easily to play around and again, not roster dependent. It would be nice to have had a single path with a direct route to GM, something I believe several CCP members suggested via output from the Beta but was totally ignored. This is the best fight you'd designed in-game, give ppl a chance to experience and practise it.

Overall, the GM fight is proof that good, interesting and fun boss fights can be created. It's a shame the same ethos, care and imagination weren't in play for several other bosses in 6.2-6.4